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Willias spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Wow, bear druids get an additional 10% mitigation in raids with Scent of the Pack.Looks like warriors will be tanking spell heavy encounters, while bears will tank melee heavy encounters.
I'm not too sure about that... IIRC, bear form druids lack parry, and they definitely lack blocking. As well, druids currently have very little in the way of +defense itemisation, so they'll be taking more crits than warriors. Even if druids get some good defense items, a warrior will still get more out of each point of defense they get due to having parry and block.
Bear druids are probably going to be viable main tanks, but warriors will still probably be better.
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Willias stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Wow, bear druids get an additional 10% mitigation in raids with Scent of the Pack.Looks like warriors will be tanking spell heavy encounters, while bears will tank melee heavy encounters.
Holy crap, thanks for linking that page Addy.
Some of those potions and enchants are fucking awesome.
Warriors have 10% mitigation by default. They were just bringing druids up to par.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Taeldian had this to say about pies:
Warriors have 10% mitigation by default. They were just bringing druids up to par.
duh 
Shit, can't believe I forgot about that.
Anyway, yeah, you're right.
However, Ruv, I wouldn't say druids don't get as much +Defense gear, not yet anyway. We won't know for certain until the expansion is released.
Edit: Actually, because of the Feral Recovery talent, wouldn't druids be really easy to heal? Willias fucked around with this message on 08-30-2006 at 12:14 PM.
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Willias said this about your mom:
duh
Shit, can't believe I forgot about that.
Anyway, yeah, you're right.
However, Ruv, I wouldn't say druids don't get as much +Defense gear, not yet anyway. We won't know for certain until the expansion is released.
Edit: Actually, because of the Feral Recovery talent, wouldn't druids be really easy to heal?
A huge portion of that 20% healing is going to be overhealing.
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Taeldian was listening to Cher while typing:
A huge portion of that 20% healing is going to be overhealing.
Unless you use a lower rank of a healing spell?
Not just that, I would honestly hope that Blizzard would do something with BC's end game that ends the retarded need for spam healing. Either come up with encounters where you have to fight groups of enemies that are immune to aoes and can't be taunted/wipe aggro randomly, or fights where the boss hits extremely hard, but doesn't dish it out fast. Willias fucked around with this message on 08-30-2006 at 01:10 PM.
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Willias said:
Unless you use a lower rank of a healing spell?
Which is what they already do.
Most of the time when I'm tanking, my deaths are a result of me not receiving any heals in time as opposed to the heals being big enough.
This will help with mana conservation, but not survival. A warrior's natural avoidance easily compensates.
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Willias had this to say about Punky Brewster:
However, Ruv, I wouldn't say druids don't get as much +Defense gear, not yet anyway. We won't know for certain until the expansion is released.Edit: Actually, because of the Feral Recovery talent, wouldn't druids be really easy to heal?
Warriors already have tons of +Defense gear. Druids are going to need a shitload of +Defense if they're going to match warriors in tanking ability, due to the fact that they completely lack parry and block. Also remember the warrior's Shield Block ability, which increases his chance to block the next attack (two with 1/3 Imp Shield Block) by 75%. Due to the way WoW handles combat and numbers, any attack that's blocked can't be either a crushing blow or a crit (unless the mob uses an ability that would give it a 100% chance to crush or crit, in which case the game compromises by blocking x damage from the crushing or crit).
Druids are probably going to end up being offtanks, same as pallies. One Prot warrior MTs, druids/pallies OT and support, other warriors DPS and OT. This gets back to what Maradon said about Blizz trying to make the off-specs, such as Feral druids and DPS warriors, more viable in raids. By only needing one Prot warrior to tank, the rest of the warriors can DPS most of the time, and the OT slots can be filled by druids and pallies who have always wanted a secondary tanking role.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Vallo who doth quote:
Overhealing is easily solved by some mod I forgot the name of. Was really popular in Blood Reign and East Coast Lawnmowers. Basically, if your target is above 85% when your heal would have gone off, it cancels it.
They deliberately broke that mod in 1.11 and using anything like it is now a bannable offense.
Any mod that automatically cancels any spell at all, in fact. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 08-30-2006 at 07:31 PM.
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Bloodsage had this to say about Captain Planet:
Here I was expecting "Medieval Chicks Gone Wild." Does. Not. Deliver.
QFT.
I want hot-looking babes in chainmail bikinis. And I want them now, dammit!
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Nobody really understood why Callalron wrote:
QFT.I want hot-looking babes in chainmail bikinis. And I want them now, dammit!
I Deliver!
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Anakha was trying to sing "I'm a little tea pot" but poured out:
So, my guess is that youve never tanked anything outside of MC, since you don't have Last Stand. WHY? Its saved my guild from a wipe at least 5 times in BWL.
Hmmm lets see, I was tanking Ossirian, and Rajaxx in AQ20 last night, have tanked Hakkar and his buddies many times, and haven't suffered a wipe in a looooooong time. The build I made does rely on healers, but I am also known for using potion as a last resort. I've been to BWL and OT'd because there were some late people and we wanted to start the farming run. MC's a joke anymore. Never spent much time in AQ40, but I'm working on stuff for Naxx. Last stand doesn't help me; I've tried it, and just NEVER used it.
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Razor Model 2000 was programmed to say:
The build I made does rely on healers,
Aren't all warrior's that way?
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Flea enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Aren't all warrior's that way?
Shh.
It's not something people hear about.
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Bent over the coffee table, Vorago squealed:
http://whoresofwarcraft.com/I Deliver!
Pure gold! You have redeemed the thread.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Nobody really understood why Razor wrote:
Hmmm lets see, I was tanking Ossirian, and Rajaxx in AQ20 last night, have tanked Hakkar and his buddies many times, and haven't suffered a wipe in a looooooong time. The build I made does rely on healers, but I am also known for using potion as a last resort. I've been to BWL and OT'd because there were some late people and we wanted to start the farming run. MC's a joke anymore. Never spent much time in AQ40, but I'm working on stuff for Naxx. Last stand doesn't help me; I've tried it, and just NEVER used it.
Last Stand saves you the cost of potions.
Last Stand and potions don't have a linked cooldown.
Last Stand is useful for getting your max HP up to crazy amounts for things like when you get BA on Vael or after 30% on huhu where you can and will die any moment. It's also useful for stuff like Twin Emps where you'll suddenly take a huge burst of damage all at once and you're going to die before your healers are going to have a chance to react. It's very useful for Battleguard Sartura where the healers are healing about 7 tanks at the same time, and can't always get to you in time. It's very useful for Prophet Skeram when you get two mirrors on one side and they're going to instakill you. It's useful while tanking Rag if you get knocked back and the fall is going to kill you. It's useful for tanking/offtanking the drakes where you can get a shadowflame followed by a big hit and die. It's useful for any situation where you're short on healers.
Last Stand is very, very useful for PvP.
Last Stand is one of the best reasons to go full Protection. Every time you die it is absolutely your fault because you don't have this ability.
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Razor had this to say about Knight Rider:
Hmmm lets see, I was tanking Ossirian, and Rajaxx in AQ20 last night, have tanked Hakkar and his buddies many times, and haven't suffered a wipe in a looooooong time. The build I made does rely on healers, but I am also known for using potion as a last resort. I've been to BWL and OT'd because there were some late people and we wanted to start the farming run. MC's a joke anymore. Never spent much time in AQ40, but I'm working on stuff for Naxx. Last stand doesn't help me; I've tried it, and just NEVER used it.
You don't understand tanking. One of the goals of any good tank is to reduce reliance on healers as much as possible. Shit, why the fuck do you think we get amazing mitigation stats on our gear when those same mitigation stats end up reducing the Rage we generate? Simple: More damage mitigation not only means we're more likely to survive the big hits, it also means we need that much less healing.
Last Stand is a fantastic tanking ability. Even if it's only temporary, it gives you 30% more of your current max HP, and heals you for the same amount. It has no Rage cost. It and Shield Wall are the warrior's only two "oh shit" keys, and Shield Wall's CD is three times as long as that of Last Stand (for good reason). Lifegiving Gem doesn't count, since it's a BWL drop and it's entirely possible that you'll never, ever get it. With Last Stand, you can ensure that you'll survive the big hits, and on the off-chance you can't survive them, then there's not much else you can do. Without it, you're putting your raid at risk when you could otherwise avoid doing so.
Last Stand is one of the reasons you spec Prot for tanking, FFS (the other ones being Imp Shield Block, Defiance, and maybe Shield Slam). To tank difficult or new encounters without it is like trying to run a marathon without limbs: It's entirely possible, but really stupid.
Delidgamond fucked around with this message on 08-31-2006 at 11:43 AM.
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From the book of Delidgamond, chapter 3, verse 16:
Sup Overpowered PvE 2H Fury Warrior
A warrior without Tactical Mastery is, by definition, not overpowered.
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Delidgamond stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
I never had to switch stances when I was dpsing. Only if one of the off tanks died would I switch to protection and hit Bloodrage for Taunt+Sunder. I am always in Fury stance.
You're also sacrificing your viability in every other aspect of the game in order to maximize your DPS by going with the build you posted. You still can't use Overpower. If you want to tank in a raid you can't stance swap for things like berserker rage, intercept, and mocking blow effectively. You can not Tank 5-10 man content nearly as effectively. You can not PvP.
Someone who goes with a build that lacks TM damned well better have some amazing damage because they're far from overpowered.
Also, you can just drop a few points from Precision and Improved Berserker Rage and BAM, you have a workable build.
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One thousand monkies on one thousand typewriters would eventually write what Taeldian said;
You're also sacrificing your viability in every other aspect of the game in order to maximize your DPS by going with the build you posted. You still can't use Overpower. If you want to tank in a raid you can't stance swap for things like berserker rage, intercept, and mocking blow effectively. You can not Tank 5-10 man content nearly as effectively. You can not PvP.Someone who goes with a build that lacks TM damned well better have some amazing damage because they're far from overpowered.
Also, you can just drop a few points from Precision and Improved Berserker Rage and BAM, you have a workable build.
1) I don't PvP. I hate it.
2) I have to 2H tank in 5-10 mans because I simply do not get hit hard enough to have the rage to keep the guys on me. I can tank just fine like that and the healers don't complain at all. In the Burning Crusade instances I will most likely be getting hit hard enough to maintain the rage I need. Also note, I rarely ever tank.
3)Overpowered, while a guarenteed crit, is not worth the 35-50 rage (assuming I have 5 point TM) to switch stances and use it. I simply have too much rage in raids built up even though I am Bloodthirsting and WW at every opprotunity. I have to cleave sometimes just to use the excess rage. The only time I run out is when the guy hits below 20%.
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Delidgamond had this to say about Knight Rider:
3)Overpowered, while a guarenteed crit, is not worth the 35-50 rage (assuming I have 5 point TM) to switch stances and use it. I simply have too much rage in raids built up even though I am Bloodthirsting and WW at every opprotunity. I have to cleave sometimes just to use the excess rage. The only time I run out is when the guy hits below 20%.
Stance swap anyway. If you hit BT and WW right before going to overpower, you are going to have the rage back by the time BT is back up. If you need to you can even stay in battle stance for a couple extra seconds and BT then go back to zerker and whirlwind. You don't lose any time on your cooldowns. I do it all the time because I have the same issue when I'm DPSing and I can't afford to burn off the extra rage aggro-wise.
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Check out the big brain on Vorago!
http://whoresofwarcraft.com/I Deliver!
Oh god, I laughed so hard I think I ruptured something.
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Bloodsage stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Pure gold! You have redeemed the thread.
Apparently, Improved Thunderclap will now not only reduce rage but double the damage (who gives a shit) and also double the slow effect (actually not bad). A 20% slow? Doesn't that negate most of a Rogue's Slice and Dice (I think I remember it's 30%)?
-I've noticed that for warriors, there's the Thunderclap bit.
-Then Defiance is a 3 point talent for the same benefit.
-Death Wish has been changed, instead of reducing resists and armor by 20%, it increases damage you take by a flat rate, 5%.
-Imp Slam has been buffed as well, being changed from a 5 point talent that lowers the cast time of Slam by .5s, to a 2 point talent that lowers the cast time of Slam by 1s. (Will Slam actually be used now that it can have a cast time that fast?)
-Anger Management has been changed. States now that it generates 1 rage every 3 seconds. (Is that different from the way it works now?)
-Did Second Wind get changed? Thought it was only 1 rank before, now it's 3, 30 rage over 10 seconds if you get Dazed, Stunned, or Immobilized.
Affliction:
-Improved Drain Soul completely changed. Now restores 7%/15% of your maximum mana if you're draining a mob's soul when it dies. Also makes all of your Affliction spells to cause 10% less threat.
-Improved Life Drain changed to Soul Siphon. Increases effectiveness of Drain Life and Drain Mana by 2%/5% for every Affliction effect on the target. Maxes at 24%/60%.
-Imp Curse of Agony changed from 3 point talent with max of 6% increased damage, to a 2 point talent with max of 10% increased damage.
-Imp Curse of Exhaustion removed, the bonus it gave is now a permanent part of the Curse of Exhaustion spell. (Curse of Exhaustion now starts at 30% decreased move speed, rather than 10%.)
-Dark Pact massively buffed. Now drains 305 mana from your pet and gives it to you at rank 1. Current max rank, 3, gives 545 mana, and the new highest rank, 4, gives 700 mana.
-Malediction changed from a 5 point talent to a 3 point talent. Maxed effectiveness reduced by 2%.
-Unstable Affliction now silences the dispeller for 5 seconds along with dealing damage.
Demonology:
-Fel Intellect is now a 3 point talent for the same max effectiveness.
-Fel Stamina is now a 3 point talent.
-Demonic Aegis recieved is now a 3 point talent (was a 2 point talent).
-Improved Enslave Demon is now a 2 point talent.
Destruction:
-Shadowburn's Soul Shard effect now lasts for 30 seconds.
-Improved Searing Pain now a 3 point talent.
Score for 41 point Elemental shamans.
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Willias got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
It's not easy figuring out what exactly changed in each of the trees.-I've noticed that for warriors, there's the Thunderclap bit.
-Then Defiance is a 3 point talent for the same benefit.
-Death Wish has been changed, instead of reducing resists and armor by 20%, it increases damage you take by a flat rate, 5%.
-Imp Slam has been buffed as well, being changed from a 5 point talent that lowers the cast time of Slam by .5s, to a 2 point talent that lowers the cast time of Slam by 1s. (Will Slam actually be used now that it can have a cast time that fast?)
-Anger Management has been changed. States now that it generates 1 rage every 3 seconds. (Is that different from the way it works now?)
-Did Second Wind get changed? Thought it was only 1 rank before, now it's 3, 30 rage over 10 seconds if you get Dazed, Stunned, or Immobilized.
Second Wind was always like that.
Looks like Flurry got a big nerf, too... Apparently it's only going to activate on white-damage crits now, instead of melee crits in general. This change alone would nerf the MS/Flurry build pretty harshly, but they haven't yet moved TM back to Arms, nor have they made it trainable.
I think when BC hits, 0/20/41 is gonna be the new warrior cookie-cutter PvP build.
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Argh! had this to say about Knight Rider:
Second Wind was always like that.Looks like Flurry got a big nerf, too... Apparently it's only going to activate on white-damage crits now, instead of melee crits in general. This change alone would nerf the MS/Flurry build pretty harshly, but they haven't yet moved TM back to Arms, nor have they made it trainable.
I think when BC hits, 0/20/41 is gonna be the new warrior cookie-cutter PvP build.
That flurry tooltip is apparently the same one as in the current talent builder, which doesn't match the tooltip in-game.
I'm not too concerned that this will actually end up being a nerf.
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Check out the big brain on Willias!
Totem of Wrath got changed to the motherfuckin' Fire totem.Score for 41 point Elemental shamans.
That'd be awesome, except for the fact it still sucks. 
It's like a 1.5% spell crit chance over the entire cooldown. Not worth losing Nature's Swiftness. Wrath of Air totem should have been the 41 point talent and not given to every Shaman.
I'd go on about how retarded most of the Shaman BC talents are, but I don't want to bore people.
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Check out the big brain on Batty!
That'd be awesome, except for the fact it still sucks.It's like a 1.5% spell crit chance over the entire cooldown. Not worth losing Nature's Swiftness. Wrath of Air totem should have been the 41 point talent and not given to every Shaman.
I'd go on about how retarded most of the Shaman BC talents are, but I don't want to bore people.
I will have no badmouthing of Unrelenting Storm thank you very much
