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From the book of Blindy., chapter 3, verse 16:
Sidious said that Plagus could influence the Midiclorians to "Create Life". And that Plagus shared with his apprentice all he knew. This means that both Plagus and his Apprentice knew how to create life by influencing the Midiclorians.It would seem to me that Darth Plagus was Sidious's Master. It would cover the fact that we never find out where Sidious learned the force and would explain why he is so incredibly powerful.
Here is where I get confused.
Anakin was conceived by the Midiclorians. Was his mom Sidious's slave before she was sold to Watoo? Did Sidious then sell her to a Tatooine Resident to get her out of the reach of the Jedi Council so that the child wouldn't be picked up and trained by the Jedi after birth? It would explain easily why sidious is so keen on Anakin and shows so much fatherly concern for him at the end of Episode III. Seems a little out of place for a Sith Lord.
Was Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's landing on Tatooine during the events of Episode I a part of Sidious's plan? He could have picked any planet in the Republic to start the invasion as an excuse to grab power. Did he pick Naboo because it was close to Tatooine so the Jedi would pick it as the planet on which to hide the Queen? Was he aware of the Jedi prophesy and using it to get his hand-created pupil free training at a location where he would have easy access to slowly poison Anakin's training with pride?
Did he order the attack on Padme to drive Anakin and Padme together, or was it just an unintended side-effect of attempting to silence the pacifists in the senate to ease the development of war to secure his dictatorship?
So much left unexplained.
I was thinking about this too...how many of the things that happened really were planned by Palpi?
I mean...did he have a plan B for turning Anakin evil had he not had Padme for leverage? What about if he died in the Outer Rim Seiges. So much of Palpatine's "plans" seemed to fall right into his hands. I'm curious as to how much he really DID influence things.
Could he even have influenced the Council into acting on him?
So many questions.
Sean also brought up something I didn't even think about...I'm kinda pissed in retrospect that they didn't mention anything about Dagobah, much less why there's a dark side convergence.
Grr..
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Entertain me with more of your bullshit, OtakuPenguin.
Sean also brought up something I didn't even think about...I'm kinda pissed in retrospect that they didn't mention anything about Dagobah, much less why there's a dark side convergence.
I always wanted Yoda to have chased and killed Dooku there, and subsequently ended up stranded during the slaughter of the Jedi. 
It's not something people hear about.
I guess that just rates up there with why Greedo would try to kill Han instead of claiming him for the full bounty. 
It's not something people hear about.
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So quoth Sean:
I always wanted Yoda to have chased and killed Dooku there, and subsequently ended up stranded during the slaughter of the Jedi.
Yeah, I never pictured the Jedi Scourge like it's pictured.
I imagined Vader having his own elite squad that literally HUNTED the Jedi down across all the systems.
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This insanity brought to you by OtakuPenguin:
I imagined Vader having his own elite squad that literally HUNTED the Jedi down across all the systems.
That's probably what happens between Ep.3 and Ep.4.
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A sleep deprived Blindy. stammered:
Imagine if lucas would have made Episode 1 the basic story from episode 2, episode 2 anikin's fall to the dark side, and episode 3 anikin hunting down all the Jedi before Obiwan owns his ass. That would have been BAD ASS.
Except that Obi-Wan didn't "own his ass." If you'll notice that throughout the fight, the only offensive moves Obi-Wan made with any degree of success was kicking Anakin, and even the kicks only pushed him back a foot or two before he began attacking again. Then Anakin kicked Obi-Wan and actually sent him reeling. The part without lightsabers doesn't count when determining who was winning the fight.
The only reason Obi-Wan won, was because Anakin's rage blinded him to the consequences of his situation. He should have jumped to a clear spot, instead of right at Obi-Wan. Densetsu fucked around with this message on 05-23-2005 at 02:40 PM.
Believe it or not, having focus in battle and not making mistakes is exactly what makes you good. And last time I counted obiwan had all 4 limbs and anakin had none. I'd say that speaks volumes of why obiwan is the superior fighter. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 05-23-2005 at 02:51 PM.
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So quoth Blindy.:
Obiwan doesn't make offencive moves. He uses a very basic defencive fighting style.Believe it or not, having focus in battle and not making mistakes is exactly what makes you good. And last time I counted obiwan had all 4 limbs and anakin had none. I'd say that speaks volumes of why obiwan is the superior fighter.
Obi-Wan's sole advantage during the entire fight, was that he wasn't being blinded by rage. Yes, I realize that this is typical of a Jedi Master, but eventually Vader learns to fuel his power with his rage, but not let it blind him. That's why we see the cool and collected badass Vader in episodes 4-6. Either way, only mentally did Obi-Wan have an advantage (one that turned out to be what was needed in order to win, granted), but Anakin was superior in every other way.
Densetsu fucked around with this message on 05-23-2005 at 02:52 PM.
[Edit: one day I will learn to check my spelling before hitting the post button]
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This one time, at Densetsu camp:
Except that Obi-Wan didn't "own his ass."
Ah, so it was actually Kenobi who was carried out in a medical pod missing 3 limbs, and not Anakin? My mistake. Reynar fucked around with this message on 05-23-2005 at 03:29 PM.
Obi-Wan couldn't hold his ground the entire fight. Even a defensive fighter isn't usually driven back at a near-constant pace. When it came down to it, it had nothing to do with Obi-Wan's skill with a lightsaber that defeated Anakin. It was simply a mental advantage.
When Obi-Wan tried to grab Anakin in order to cut him down while holding his lightsaber at bay, Anakin was able to easily turn the grip around and counter with his blade.
When Obi-Wan tried to Force Push Anakin to gain some ground, Anakin countered with a Force Push of his own, sending them both flying, instead of giving the advantage to Obi-Wan.
When Obi-Wan kicked Anakin twice in an attempt to do, basically, what Mace Windu did to Palpatine, he could only Knock Anakin far enough to be out of saber strike range, and Anakin simply moved forward again without stopping. Anakin then kicked Obi-Wan and actually knocked him off his feet.
As I said, during the actual fight, Any offensive move made by Obi-Wan in an attempt to turn the tide, failed.
I can be the best defensive fighter in the world, but if all I do is meet your blade with mine, I'll never win the fight. An offensive move has to be made sometime. When Obi-Wan tried, he failed.
Obi-Wan beat Anakin on a technicality. It was far from ownage.
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Densetsu wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Just because you lose, doesn't mean you were owned.Obi-Wan couldn't hold his ground the entire fight. Even a defensive fighter isn't usually driven back at a near-constant pace. When it came down to it, it had nothing to do with Obi-Wan's skill with a lightsaber that defeated Anakin. It was simply a mental advantage.
When Obi-Wan tried to grab Anakin in order to cut him down while holding his lightsaber at bay, Anakin was able to easily turn the grip around and counter with his blade.
When Obi-Wan tried to Force Push Anakin to gain some ground, Anakin countered with a Force Push of his own, sending them both flying, instead of giving the advantage to Obi-Wan.
When Obi-Wan kicked Anakin twice in an attempt to do, basically, what Mace Windu did to Palpatine, he could only Knock Anakin far enough to be out of saber strike range, and Anakin simply moved forward again without stopping. Anakin then kicked Obi-Wan and actually knocked him off his feet.
As I said, during the actual fight, Any offensive move made by Obi-Wan in an attempt to turn the tide, failed.
I can be the best defensive fighter in the world, but if all I do is meet your blade with mine, I'll never win the fight. An offensive move has to be made sometime.
Obi-Wan beat Anakin on a technicality. It was far from ownage.
This is comical. There are no technicalities in a fight to the death (or near death in this case). You either win or lose.
You cannot call one combatant superior if he LOST.
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When Obi-Wan tried, he failed.
Except, he didn't fail. Being that he chopped off Anakin's limbs.
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Katrinity wrote this stupid crap:
The fight wasn't to the death until Episode IV when Anakin chopped Obi-Wan in twain.
Hense my (near death in this case) 
Back to the subject, (once again the book touches on this more) Obi-Wan needed to let go of his love and friendship for Anakin, just as Anakin had been told when he spoke with Yoda about his dreams. To hold on to what is dearest is selfishness and jealousy, paths to the dark side. Obi-Wan was finally able to do that, you can see the change in resolve during the fight.
My opinion of the movie is that it lacked so very much. It was very good, but the cheese factor just kicked in too much during the "emotional" parts of the film. There were a few changes between the book and movie that I think should have been in there. One being Threepio chattering on and on about how wonderful it will be to tell Leia stories about her mother and Anakin. It was then that YODA not Senator Organa says to wipe the mind of Threepio.
Also, going back to the Clone Wars animated series, you'll recall Qui-Gon Jin showing a Padawan (Who I thought was Anakin at first but it couldn't be as Qui-Gon died before ANY training of Anakin is done, so it must be Obi-Wan) the tree on Dagobah. Many of the books mention paths to the dark side, even KOTOR speaks of "the darkness within us all". In the case of Mace Windu (again according to the book), his lightsaber style has such fury because he channels his darkness into it.
My thoughts on all of this come down to one single revelation that the prophesy of the chosen one was true. He brought balance to the Force: Luke and Leia. (Just my opinion, I cannot base it on anything as of yet. I've only read the Han Solo books from the late 70's early 80's and the Heir to The Empire series by Timothy Zahn and a couple Rogue Squadron books) Kaglaaz How'ler fucked around with this message on 05-23-2005 at 04:15 PM.
Likewise, in Ep2 they said that the numbers of Jedi were dwindling. Mace later said that he would take what Jedi they had left (at the Temple, I was gathering) to go help Obi-Wan. It's a big galaxy. There's no way ten or eleven Jedi were all there was left.
Afterwards, what Vader and Palpatine did was hunt down and eliminate any overt Jedi left. Without any of the masters left, some knights fell prey to arrogance and called themselves masters and either fell to the dark side or ended up getting squashed by the true Masters. With an organization spanning something the size of a galaxy, you can easily wipe it out by disconnecting the individual parts, even though it's virtually impossible to wipe out every...single...one...of the organization's component members. The Jedi we saw were all Generals, probably all Masters. And we didn't even see all of them get wiped out. What happened to Luminara and Shakti? Maybe the book covers them. I presume they were hunted down in the intervening years between Ep 3 and Ep 4.
As for Obi-Wan and Anakin's fight, remember Obi-Wan was there to fulfill a duty, one he didn't want to do, one he begged Yoda not to send him to complete. Further, Obi-Wan's style was very much based on the idea of patiently defending oneself until the ideal moment to strike. Add the two together and Obi-Wan was in effect giving Anakin every possible conceivable chance to give up or force Obi-Wan to take him out. Anakin should have known that, and if he were thinking clearly he probably would have remembered and altered his fighting style. But he wasn't thinking clearly, caught up in the self-loathing, furious anger, and energized glee he was riding high on at the moment. He lost control, in effect.
Anakin WAS the better lightsaber warrior, in terms of sheer ability. But Obi-Wan was the better Force User, and that's what made the difference. He kept control, Anakin lost control. Years later, Anakin had regained control and if the battle was fought out again he would have won (assuming all-organic bits, etc), but Obi cheated him. You recall he stopped fighting and let Vader strike him down to keep Vader from getting Luke. The selfless Jedi cheated the Sith into accepting a pyrrhic victory.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael's fortune cookie read:
I read him bringing balance to the Force as being the one who offed the Sith Lord in the end.
Personally, I see Anakin having balanced the Force by reducing the Light Side to two (Yoda and Obi-Wan), and the Dark Side to two (Palpatine and himself). Then Luke comes along and unbalances it.
Also, one gift that they speak of in the book is that Mace Windu can "see" the weave of the force around people and that there were certain 'breaking points' around Anakin and Palpatine. Part of this power was Windu was able to grab a fracture point of Palpatine's during the fight and shatter it to break his concentration which is how he is able to disarm the Emporer. Kaglaaz How'ler fucked around with this message on 05-23-2005 at 05:11 PM.
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And now, we sprinkle Sean liberally with Old Spice!
Yes, but Lucas likes to invalidate EU knowledge like [some sort of Gattaca reference], so a lot of us were hoping for an official explanation.
EU is still canon until it is directly contradicted by a film or film's novelization.
Oh, and in regards to the whole Qui-Gon thing, I thought the purpose of that entire exchange was to show that Yoda did train Obi-Wan, thus making the shit Lucas took all over continuity a little less smelly.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Karnaj was listening to Cher while typing:
EU is still canon until it is directly contradicted by a film or film's novelization.Oh, and in regards to the whole Qui-Gon thing, I thought the purpose of that entire exchange was to show that Yoda did train Obi-Wan, thus making the shit Lucas took all over continuity a little less smelly.
I always figured what Obi-Wan meant when he asked Yoda, "Was I any different when you trained me?" to be like when he was a child, before becoming Padawan to a single Master.
Remember that in Episode 2, it shows Yoda instructing a group of children (I refuse to use the term 'Younglings' past an example such as this), and I think that that is what Obi-Wan might've meant. At least that's what I would hope.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had time to sputter this out before being killed by someone else's ambush:
Oh, and with Mace, I always gathered he had mastered walking the line between giving in to his feelings of furiosity and keeping control, which is why his style was so ferocious compared to the elegant moves of Luminara or Shakti.
Ah...I just watched the last five Clone Wars cartoons and I thought it was pretty dark-side-y of him to just CRUSH Grevious' lungs like that (or, for that matter, rip droids apart with his bare hands - even though they're not technically independently sapient beings it's still pretty brutal), but I guess that works.
Disclaimer: I'm just kidding, I love all living things.
The fastest draw in the Crest.
"The Internet is MY critical thinking course." -Maradon
"Gambling for the husband, an abortion for the wife and fireworks for the kids they chose to keep? Fuck you, Disneyland. The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation is the happiest place on Earth." -JooJooFlop
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Gunslinger Moogle had this to say about dark elf butts:
Ah...I just watched the last five Clone Wars cartoons and I thought it was pretty dark-side-y of him to just CRUSH Grevious' lungs like that (or, for that matter, rip droids apart with his bare hands - even though they're not technically independently sapient beings it's still pretty brutal), but I guess that works.
You have to realize that droids have no connection to the Force, and thus their destruction through the Force has no effect on the user than the destruction of any inanimate object in the same manner.
There's a reason why Stun/Disable/Destroy Droid powers in the video games and whatnot are considered lightside powers, while Choke/Kill and such are Dark Side.
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Because Karnaj is my friend.
EU is still canon until it is directly contradicted by a film or film's novelization.
Yes, but he still likes to rape it with all the ferocity of [something something rancor]. I guess now we get to pick our favorite EU explanation for it.
It's not something people hear about.
Still it's fun 
Pointed out by the guy with a self-animated comic book Beast Boy sigpic.
It's not something people hear about.
Kag is making me want to go out and get the Clone Wars novels.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Densetsu got a good feeling!
You have to realize that droids have no connection to the Force, and thus their destruction through the Force has no effect on the user than the destruction of any inanimate object in the same manner.There's a reason why Stun/Disable/Destroy Droid powers in the video games and whatnot are considered lightside powers, while Choke/Kill and such are Dark Side.
Grievious wasn't just a droid though. He was a cyborg - he had a heart, a brain, etc. I think this would mean he is in some degree connected to the Force.
Disclaimer: I'm just kidding, I love all living things.
The fastest draw in the Crest.
"The Internet is MY critical thinking course." -Maradon
"Gambling for the husband, an abortion for the wife and fireworks for the kids they chose to keep? Fuck you, Disneyland. The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation is the happiest place on Earth." -JooJooFlop
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Gunslinger Moogle had this to say about Captain Planet:
Grievious wasn't just a droid though. He was a cyborg - he had a heart, a brain, etc. I think this would mean he is in some degree connected to the Force.
I was talking about the ripping droids apart with bare hands thing.
Chrushing his lungs with the Force, I dunno. I missed that episode apparently.
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about (_|_):
I read him bringing balance to the Force as being the one who offed the Sith Lord in the end.
I always figured it was him killing all the Jedi that brought balance to the Force. A hundred or so, give or take, full Masters, dozens of Knights, and dozens of little Force using children training to become future Padawans against two Sith is a little unbalanced.
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Mr. Snoota? That sounds too much like Mr. Shit.
I always figured it was him killing all the Jedi that brought balance to the Force. A hundred or so, give or take, full Masters, dozens of Knights, and dozens of little Force using children training to become future Padawans against two Sith is a little unbalanced.
But, by the very act of Anakin killing all those Jedi, does it not prove the Force's unabalance to begin with? In favor of the Sith, even.
It's not something people hear about.
Which is how I always saw it, the force was imbalanced but not on the side of evil, even though all the jedi assumed it was, but on the side of good and when they wiped out most of the jedi it brought things back into balance. Balance would be good and evil, wiping out all the bad guys wouldn't bring balance, neither would wiping out all the good guys. But a few bad guys wiping out all but a few of the large number of good guys would. Vorago fucked around with this message on 05-24-2005 at 11:00 AM.
