From the way it looks, the Paladin/Warlock epic mounts are still going to be costly to get as they require tradeskill items to earn. That includes the various pain in the ass questing that needs to be done.
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We were all impressed when Willias wrote:
Tons of new info on the patch coming out. You can look at the forums for screens of many of the new mount models, the new succubus model, and info on the quests for Paladins/Warlocks.From the way it looks, the Paladin/Warlock epic mounts are still going to be costly to get as they require tradeskill items to earn. That includes the various pain in the ass questing that needs to be done.
Gee, I wonder how many people will be gouging prices for these tradeskill items in the first week? 900g my fucking ass. I'll probably end up paying more then 2k for all the shit I need to collect.
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Delphi Aegis had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Gee, I wonder how many people will be gouging prices for these tradeskill items in the first week? 900g my fucking ass. I'll probably end up paying more then 2k for all the shit I need to collect.
Expect arcanite bars to go up in price. At least alliance side, no idea if warlocks will need it.
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I want some of what Addy was smoking when they wrote this:
Expect arcanite bars to go up in price. At least alliance side, no idea if warlocks will need it.
I would assume the quest is a carbon copy; they've been too pressed for time to do anything else, really.
This happened to a guy in the Tarren Mill graveyard, he got stuck in a grave as a ghost and if he moved at all he was disconnected. I had to revive him to help him get unstuck. It happened to me in Hammerfall, I jumped on top of some of the small wooden spikes that line the inside of the town and got stuck. My brother landed in the same spot later and it happened to him as well. We had to get a warlock to summon us off the spikes so we could move again without being disconnected. Finally, I am currently stuck on the side of a hill in Ratchet while in Ghost Wolf form.
I hope to god that Blizzard fixes this before the patch is released to live servers. Willias fucked around with this message on 04-09-2005 at 11:15 AM.
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Willias had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
I hope to god that Blizzard fixes this before the patch is released to live servers.
As horrible as it would be, I must admit I find it disturbingly funny the image of entire servers walking, not running, around carefully avoiding all objects as if they might explode, sticking to the roads and most careful routes everywhere, heh.
"Shit, a rock, a rock, WATCH OUT!"
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There was much rejoicing when Delphi Aegis said this:
Gee, I wonder how many people will be gouging prices for these tradeskill items in the first week? 900g my fucking ass. I'll probably end up paying more then 2k for all the shit I need to collect.
2k my arse. Obviously, folks are going to price gouge on AH. If you're smart, you already bought some of the stuff last night. Other stuff is easy to collect (even the dark iron ore if you know a smart druid friend). It seems that if you're smart, it'll cost you at most a third of what it does now, at least from the info I've seen. Even if you go with the AH way, it shouldn't cost you near 900g the items.
First, you buy a 6 gold reagent. Then go to Winterspring and collect 30 blood.
Next, go to Felwood and use a potion to talk to a dreadlord. He sends you to assassinate someone, then you shell out 150 gold for some dust.
Then you get 3 collection quests.
10 elixir of shadow power
4 large brilliant shards & 25 dark iron ore
35 black dragonscales
Then you go to Scholomance and do whatever.
When you turn in those 3 collection quests, you then get another collection quest :
3 arcanite bars
And that's as far as I know. Khyron fucked around with this message on 04-09-2005 at 07:53 PM.
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Khyron had this to say about Robocop:
The warlock epic mount quest, as far as I know it :First, you buy a 6 gold reagent. Then go to Winterspring and collect 30 blood.
Next, go to Felwood and use a potion to talk to a dreadlord. He sends you to assassinate someone, then you shell out 150 gold for some dust.
Then you get 3 collection quests.
10 elixir of shadow power
4 large brilliant shards & 25 dark iron ore
35 black dragonscalesThen you go to Scholomance and do whatever.
When you turn in those 3 collection quests, you then get another collection quest :
3 arcanite bars
And that's as far as I know.
Then you must sacrifice a baby kitten to the god's and drink its blood as you chant an evil curse. I think I'll stick with paying 900g.
All I have to say is Hunters are getting boned. 
Typically I'm fine, I dont agree with a lot of the changes that have been made, but I have always managed. Was always of the mindset that as long as I was decently effective I wouldn't really care.
Now that Bow damage is subject to +Defence to hit, it's starting to hurt. On top of that however, now Bow dammage is Subject to Dodge/Parry/Miss/Deflected.
Pets have lost a lot of DPS, but CMs have reported that that was unintentional and they are trying to figure out why it happened and how to correct it.
Wow, that hunter boosting patch better be a doozy ;p
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Lenlalron Flameblaster had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
So they really did nerf hunter dps?Wow, that hunter boosting patch better be a doozy ;p
You're going to miss, and I mean miss ALOT against Warriors, Paladins (Only matter is you are Horde really, but tested it anyway for completions sake), and Rogues.
Basically being subject to Dodge/Parry/Deflect/Miss as well as +Def has seriously killed it.
I also tested this against some Plaguelands mobs. Against the Paladin-esque Scarlet/Wardens, or any of the higher armor targets this was impacted just as much. Against the caster type mobs, not as much, but still impacted slightly due to Dodge/Parry being added.
Also you can no longer FD or ScatterShot to force a Rogue to lose ComboPoints, and thier Evasion works against us. So if evasion goes up, you can pretty much bend over cause its done.
On the plus side.. The new Freezing Trap graphic is spiffy. Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 04-09-2005 at 09:57 PM.
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Check out the big brain on Batty!
PvP servers are gonna be a huge war after this patch and the honor system goes in...I love it.
I thought the whole "My guild has already started talking about making Hunters primary targets after this patch goes live for easy Honor points" was just a joke... Until I got on to test and thats all they were talking about in General.
Hunters have become farmable Honor points in most peoples mind. PvP is realllllly gonna suck for me after this goes live.
Then again, I don't see a big problem with Hunters normal attacks being brought in line with everyone else's normal attacks.quote:
Batty obviously shouldn't have said:
Hunters were godly in PvP before.Then again, I don't see a big problem with Hunters normal attacks being brought in line with everyone else's normal attacks.
No...
Hunters were godly in GROUP PvP If, and ONLY If.
1) They were ignored
2) Stayed absolutely still and didn't move, because if a Hunter is on the move thier DPS is in the shitter.
Now, #1 Rarely Happens, and #2 Never happens because #1 Rarely happens. The only classes that could every claim Hunters were godly would be cloth casters, whom we happened to get the jump on and have an AimeShot crit. ASSUMING the Hunter can sneak around and get off a frew Multi-Shots (And be even more lucky and have thier Crit.) THAT was some decent PvP there. Under all other conditions, a Hunter was entirely useless even in Group PvP. Even against cloth casters, cause they only time you maintain an advantage over them in Group PvP is if you get the drop on them first.
As for your second comment. No. We are, or at least we are SUPPOSED to be a DPS class. Mages and Rogues (The other DPS classes) have higher DPS than us, and Warriors specced a certain way and/or using a 2HDer in PvP have higher DPS than us. Which is fine to an extent, I dont want or need to be as good as they are. However, thats how it stands NOW, with Bows only being subject to Miss/Deflect. So if all those classes have the same or better DPS than we do (For free mind you, since melee weapons dont require ammunition so missing doesnt cost you) with the way things are NOW with only Miss/Deflect in the equation.... Then add it the fact that each shot we make now has a higher chance to Miss due to +Def, and will miss more often in ADDITION to that because it is subject to 2 MORE types of damage avoidance. No, I'm sorry.. We are not playing by the rules of every other class. We are taking a sever hit to our damage. We barely match the DPS of a well specced Warrior with a 2Hder, and we dont match the DPS of most (I said MOST) Rogues or mages. Now we are going to miss a great deal more, flushing money down the toilet and doing no damage. You tell me how that is playing by the same rules, when the Highest DPS bow in the Game + The highest DPS arrows in the game, BARELY match the DPS of the Highest 1HDer in the game.
No, if we are going to miss that much, then the damage of bows needs to be GREATLY increased to "Play by the rules of the other classes"
Bow/gun dps probably needs to be upped after this, but Hunters still need to be affected by armor and the defense skills. Everyone else is.
I play on a PvP server. I know all the tricks everyone uses and which classes are best and most feared in PvP. All they need to do is up Hunter's DPS again after making them subject to armor and defense skills and they'll be perfectly in line with everyone else.
And here is a hint, anyone that isn't melee can't do high dps while running. It's just part of the game. I havn't played on test so I don't know how drastic the hunter changes are, but complaining about other classes actually having an ability to slow down the damage you are doing is asanine.
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Batty enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
No, Hunters were godly in 1vs1 PvP. It's easy to get the drop on someone without them seeing you and getting an aimed shot off in actual PvP. Don't give me bullshit about losing duels to everyone all the time, duels are not PvP. They don't reflect it in any way at all. Hunters were even better in group PvP because of things like distract and that dazing shot. Nobody could get close to them.Bow/gun dps probably needs to be upped after this, but Hunters still need to be affected by armor and the defense skills. Everyone else is.
I play on a PvP server. I know all the tricks everyone uses and which classes are best and most feared in PvP.
I don't duel.. Like ever.. The only duels I've ever done were against like Gadani and Tilmatomo for fun. And as far as those go, I always win. Always. I group PvP almost every night, ask anyone, its like my favorite past time.
It's NOT that easy to get the drop on someone and get off an Aimed Shot and not be seen. By the time I poped an Aimedshot off at a Caster, I have a Warrior and Rogue (If not more on me at LEAST) do you realize how long you have to stand there and do absolutely nothing before Aimedshot fires? 4 Seconds for me personally with a Heartseeker. Thats 4 seconds of me standing there like a sitting duck, doing absolutely nothing, while trying to Aimedshot a caster. By the time its gone off I've probably been nuked from every direction and been jumped.
You say you play on a PvP server and know all the tricks and whatever? Okay.. Well, first of all.. Hunters don't get Distract. Thats Rogues. Second, Concussion shot is on a 15 Second Timer, we can't spam it and it costs mana. As for no one reaching you. Charge/Intercept, Sprint. Also since you are using group PvP as an example, we could only every Concussion one target at any given time every 15 seconds... So either its a 2v2 match, or you have some really REALLY crappy groups.
On an open PvP server, it's VERY VERY VERY easy to get the drop on someone. Standing there for aimed shot isn't a big deal when the target isn't even looking for you or is busy fighting something/someone else. I don't do much group PvP except for outside instances, because generally PvP on a PvP server is either 1vs1 or up to 3vs3 at best. Hunters are very much godly in PvP right now, the only way I really kill them is when I get the drop on them and they don't get to shoot at me.
Nerfing Hunters to operate the same way as everyone else is a balance for the PvP servers that affects PvE servers too.
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Naimah had this to say about Knight Rider:
Hunters have pets. Hunters have mail. Hunters should do drasticly less damage then either mages or rogues.And here is a hint, anyone that isn't melee can't do high dps while running. It's just part of the game. I havn't played on test so I don't know how drastic the hunter changes are, but complaining about other classes actually having an ability to slow down the damage you are doing is asanine.
My pet does Low DPS, my pet is easily killed... By anthing. My pet is usually poly'd, mezzed, feared, rooted, snared (At which point he becomes permasnared) or Hibernated within seconds of sending it into the fight. All that aside, even if you COUNT the Pet damage, as a DoT, which I am mind you, its included in our DPS calculation. We still do not come anywhere NEAR the DPS of a Mage, Rogue, or decently Specced Warrior with a 2HDer. Trying to bring up Pets in PvP is rather absurd to begin with as they are nothing more than an annoyance in most cases.
We also have no stuns (Unless you specc Survival and get Improved WingClip, and even then its only a 20% Chance), and we have little to no melee to compete with. Getting in our deeadzone or melee range is all thats required already to completely cripple a Hunters DPS.
With mail we have a whole whopping 16% more damage reduction than a leather wearer, with comparable HPs. Having mail doesn't mean squat for several reasons. One because of the insane damage classes like the Rogue do, for two because AC doesn't do CRAP against the asstacular damage spells do (800+, worse if your dotted at the same time) and due to other limitations any melee class can shred through it to begin with.
You also miss the fact that WITH pet, our DPS is significantly lower than a Rogue or Mage as is RIGHT NOW... Due to your comments about having a pet and mail, I AGREE with you in that I have no problem doing less DPS because of it, as it is NOW. That however is dealing only with Miss/Deflect in the equation. Now add in 2 entirely different damage avoidance issues, plus a high miss change to begin with due to +Def and you start to see the picture.
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How.... Batty.... uughhhhhh:
Distract onto the pet, doofus. Whatever it's called, I dunno Hunter ability names. =POn an open PvP server, it's VERY VERY VERY easy to get the drop on someone. Standing there for aimed shot isn't a big deal when the target isn't even looking for you or is busy fighting something/someone else. I don't do much group PvP except for outside instances, because generally PvP on a PvP server is either 1vs1 or up to 3vs3 at best. Hunters are very much godly in PvP right now, the only way I really kill them is when I get the drop on them and they don't get to shoot at me.
Nerfing Hunters to operate the same way as everyone else is a balance for the PvP servers that affects PvE servers too.
Ahhh.. You mean Disengage? Doesn't work that way, but okay. I don't know where you're getting that information from. And you can quit bringing pets into this for one, because pets are stuck with AI... Dunno if you ever noticed it, but even if you DO use your pet in PvP it is a pain to keep hold of them, since they are on AI they can be taunted off or redirected... Not to mention all the other issues I already pointed out.
In group PvP there is always someone paying attention to everyone. I dunno what kinda PvP you're doing, but it sounds like 3v3 at MOST. In which case yeah, depending on my groupmates I could probably get off an aimedshot... Against a Cloth Class. However if its a priest, first thing they are gonna do is DoT me, Throw up a Shield, and Heal.. If they are smart, at which point Im sitting pretty useless until shield drops or I attack another target, and Hunters are usually prime target #1. If its a Mage, they are gonna nuke me to all hell after they get beaned, and it doesnt take much from a mage to drop a Hunter. If its a Warlock.. well, I feel for Warlocks, they are in the same boat as us... To be honest we both generally die about the same time. Them from my damage because they have a fuckton of HPs and me from all the Dots thrown at me. Even then all you really get a chance to do is get off an AimeShot. I can gank people... sure. Catch them unawares and dominate them. No issue. But so can every other class such Rogues and Warriors and Mages.
The only way we would be playing by the same rules as everyone else is if our bows did as much damage as the other weapons. So sure, you give me a good bow with the DPS of a good 2HDer, or the DPS of the equivalent of a pair of swords, and sure. Until then, no. Because when me using my bow is even less than the equivalent of a Warrior using a single sword (We dont even get a Shield in that case, nor do we have any +Damage attacks besides AimeShot which is a really stupid infight attack option) then shit just dont fly. If they are going to make me subject to Dodge/Parry/Deflect (On additional avoidance option that meleers dont have mind you)/Miss then I need to do significantly more damage per shot or I might as well carry around a Sword and try and poke stuff with only a sword.
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A sleep deprived Naimah stammered:
You win, hunters suck. Reroll a rogue so that we don't have to listen to you.
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Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about the Spice Girls:
(Oh, and FYI... you do have a "stun". Freeze trap. If you don't know why/how its overpowered in PvP or dueling, just stop talking right now.)
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Talonus has the right stuff
shush up.
Harsh.
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Talonus enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
I'm going to be nice here Fae. You're on a PvE server and you're not 60. As such, you don't know what you're talking about. Reroll a rogue if you want to be the king of PvP or shush up.(Oh, and FYI... you do have a "stun". Freeze trap. If you don't know why/how its overpowered in PvP or dueling, just stop talking right now.)
Uh... Im 58, and have all my skills the last tier of Upgrades for me does jack. So the "You are not 60" doesn't fly anymore. For my testing purposes I didn't even use a 60, I used a 58 Rogue, a 55 Warior, and a 57 Paladin. Being on a PvE server has jack to do with it. I PvP just about every night, the only difference I have over a PvP server is the ability to NOT get ganked until I choose to be, or not be involved in any 3v3 crap. Although I did play on a PvP server, and there are far far better Gankers than Hunters.
I don't want to be the king of PvP, or yes, Id enjoy a Rogue and would be playing one. In fact I'll gladdly give up my Mail armor if you give me the DPS of a Rogue, otherwise I'm like a Rogue who only uses a single sword after whats coming.
(Oh and FYI... Freezing Trap is subject to diminishing Returns, any and all damage done while trapped breaks the trap, Rogue vanish breaks the trap, Druid forms break the trap, FreeAcotion potions break the trap, There are trinkets to break the trap, Gnomes can break the trap, Feigning Breaks the trap, It is only good against one target and one target only and has no real use in a real group PvP fight as you are usually just trying to ditch a ganker who came around the outside to take you out. Also its out of combat only and in responce to my next comment FD is on a 30 second timer, traps are on a linked timer also. In the first place I assume you are talking about the exploit of FD/FT yes? Well in case you missed it, that hasn't worked for quite a while the way it used to. It is very difficult to pull off, and almost impossible more than once, in which case all you have a chance to do is get to range and put on another couple shots, because they changed the way Freezing Traps are laid. They get put several feet in front of you. You cannot drop them on players anymore. Also this is assuming someone believed your Feign to begin with. On top of all that, its an exploit, and a different version of it than is used now got people banned. It is also horribly exploitable by the otherside using Worg Pups and Spiderling pets. And Dueling != PvP.)
Edited: Added the other ways FT breaks. Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 04-09-2005 at 11:16 PM.
And the difference between a PvP server and a PvE server is huge. Its incredibly huge. On a PvE server, about all the PvP you'll see is dueling or Hillsbrad rush fests. I think you're smart enough to understand why its not a true representation of PvP.
Hunters will never get the DPS of a rogue. They should. You know why? Its quite simple really, they're RANGED. They should not touch rogue damage. They should not touch mage damage either, simply because mages are more easily killable. If you think hunters should be doing the same DPS as a mage/rogue, well... uh... I don't know what to say.
(I said its a stun, but never stated its a good one. Druid root is argueably worse, and its getting nerfed this patch. I know hunters who can use the trap to lockdown people. Yes, its a cheap exploit tactic. It still works.)
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Mr. Parcelan attempted to be funny by writing:
I thought you were on Elune, Tal. Isn't that PvE?
60 rogue on Tichondrius too. ^_^ Don't really play him anymore though.
Falaanla Marr fucked around with this message on 04-09-2005 at 11:37 PM.
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Talonus's account was hax0red to write:
60 rogue on Tichondrius too. ^_^ Don't really play him anymore though.
Oh my.
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Mr. Parcelan wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Oh my.
I'm a carebear now. ^_^
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Talonus spewed forth this undeniable truth:
I'm a carebear now. ^_^
rofl ez mod
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Verily, Talonus doth proclaim:
If you're 58, chances are you don't have the proper gear for comparison. Some DM loot maybe? Gorewood bow possibly? DHC if you're lucky? A 58 hunter isn't exactly going to be invited on a ton of raids, and if you have been how well equipped are you? And I won't even go into the fact that you're going to be targetted more just because you're 58. That two level difference does matter.And the difference between a PvP server and a PvE server is huge. Its incredibly huge. On a PvE server, about all the PvP you'll see is dueling or Hillsbrad rush fests. I think you're smart enough to understand why its not a true representation of PvP.
Hunters will never get the DPS of a rogue. They should. You know why? Its quite simple really, they're RANGED. They should not touch rogue damage. They should not touch mage damage either, simply because mages are more easily killable. If you think hunters should be doing the same DPS as a mage/rogue, well... uh... I don't know what to say.
(I said its a stun, but never stated its a good one. Druid root is argueably worse, and its getting nerfed this patch. I know hunters who can use the trap to lockdown people. Yes, its a cheap exploit tactic. It still works.)
You're first paragraph doesn't have anything to do with any of it. I tested this against PvP mobs my own level and players my own level. I've been this level for a while... Mainly because I dont do anything BUT PvP. Or I could have grinded out the other two levels a while back. This is all pretty irrelevant. If I get high end gear, and my target has highe end gear, its the same as if we both have medicore gear. Which I dont at any rate.
I dunno what PvE servers you have played on, but ours has never been like that when it comes to PvP. I don't duel, ever, cept for fun with guildies. I think we have ever attacked Hillsbrad like once, on a whim.. and it was like Me, Gadani, and Til... No one even came to the defence. No, Im sorry, we start wars on a level playing field. I have never been in a PvP raid of less than 15 people, ever. Unless it was just me and Gad out having some fun. Usually my raids are 20 or more. We all flag simultaneously by attacking guards to incite a riot, Horde comes to the defence, War ensues. In fact if you want to get technically it is actually EASIER to gank on a PvE server than a PvP server beause Rogues, Warriors, and the like can abuse thier blue status before attacking (Although that is uncommon in the bigger fights.) So if you mean PvE servers are less 'cheap' then you would be correct. However the core of the PvP is identical, and your Hillsbrad raids or Duels thing doesn't even make sense.
I don't want the DPS of a Rogue, never have, I pointed out we were below a Rogue already as it is now. In fact I even said that was fine. MY complaint is that we are going WELL below the damage of a Rogue, Mage, Warrior, and coming VERY close to a Paladin. So you understand how much damage is lost when you factor in having two more types of damage avoidance being added to your class? If we are already conciderably below Rogues, Mages, and sometimes Warriors AS IT IS NOW... Factor in missing a hell of a lot more due to Dodge/Parry being added. Now crunch the numbers. Like I said, when this goes in... We are like a Rogue, who only uses one sword. And you can't use Range as an excuse either, we have Mail yes, but it doesn't help all that much... Especially not against the damage a Warrior and Rogue dish out, and we are more easily killed by Mages than they are by us. (Plus they can exploit the deadzone, and have serious ways to make you completely useless.) We have an easily exploitable deadzone and very few survival tactics outside of trying to get range back. This is also completely and TOTALLY ignoring the fact that Melee classes can hit on the run. In order for our touted range to be a benefit we have to be standing still. We cannot attack on the run outside of Arcane Shot and Stings. Range is not this end all be all advantage people like to make it out to be. Once you kill our range we are less than usefull, we must fight to get range again, only to have it taken away again... The whole time while this is going on we are doing shit for damage, this INCLUDES trying to kite.
(YOu said and I quote "If you don't know why/how its overpowered in PvP or dueling, just stop talking right now.")
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Falaanla Marr thought about the meaning of life:
My god, paragraphs please. That is impossible to read
It is in paragraphs.
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Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about the Spice Girls:
It is in paragraphs.
It needs more than 3 paragraphs.
