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Falaanla Marr stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
It needs more than 3 paragraphs.
Well I can't edit it now anyway. 
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Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about Pirotess:
Too much stuff
PvP mobs? ._. I won't ask. And yes, getting 60 and high end gear matters. A lot. If you're not even in DM quality gear with a gorewood, no wonder your DPS sucks/ Gear has a large effect on your damage, whether you like it or not.
20+ people means a zergfest. Its no different from Hillsbrad. You're a non-60 with ger that isn't top quality in a zergfest. No wonder you die a lot? No wonder you're not getting kills? You're missing a lot by limiting yourself to zergfests. Don't know how you can stand it actually.
Your DPS is nearing paladin? Repeat that to yourself. If YOUR DPS is nearing a paladin, you need to get 60 and some decent gear. Its your fault then, and not necessarily a balance problem.
And the ranged excuse is a pretty big crux. Being able to deal damage from ranged is a big thing. I don't care if folks can close in; if you're a ranged attacker, don't expect to do as much as a melee attacker normally.
(I am corrected!)
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Last week, Talonus quit the band:
60 rogue on Tichondrius too. ^_^ Don't really play him anymore though.
Isn't the rogue your brother's or summat?
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Tegadil thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Isn't the rogue your brother's or summat?
Gave it to me when he quit. I gave it back to his guild to be used for farming till battlegrounds when it'd be given back to him. Confusing ain't it?
What's that? You're constantly seen wearing [Carrot on a stick] and [Argent Dawn Comission]? Oh my.
60 makes a difference. Period. Small skirmishes, group encouters and zerg-fests are all entirely different.
Just saying.
Our CC sucks. As soon as you hit the thing in the trap, they are free. And at it's max level it only lasts 20 seconds. Polymorph, at it's max, holds a target for 50 seconds. Sap, 45 seconds. Both are comparable skills to frost trap, but don't need the mob to walk over it, isn't invisible to half the raid, and doesn't look like a Frost Nova (although that is being changed).
So, what are we? Pullers? Because unlike a mage and rogue, we can wear mail? My guild doesn't let me pull. The groups I'm in constantly have a warrior to pull. Why? Because they have plate and a shield, so can survive more than two hits before they are boned.
I chose PvE because I am not a "oh, my e-penis is bigger than you because I killed you," type of guy. I prefer to be able to run to an instance/area without having to worry about a stealthed rogue waiting to gank me. I have yet to play on the new test server, so I don't know how big of a hit this is to our DPS. But if hunters are just there as farmable honor points, and are no longer wanted in groups (even less than now), I may start a rogue and just give in to the masses.
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Talonus had this to say about Knight Rider:
PvP mobs? ._. I won't ask. And yes, getting 60 and high end gear matters. A lot. If you're not even in DM quality gear with a gorewood, no wonder your DPS sucks/ Gear has a large effect on your damage, whether you like it or not.20+ people means a zergfest. Its no different from Hillsbrad. You're a non-60 with ger that isn't top quality in a zergfest. No wonder you die a lot? No wonder you're not getting kills? You're missing a lot by limiting yourself to zergfests. Don't know how you can stand it actually.
Your DPS is nearing paladin? Repeat that to yourself. If YOUR DPS is nearing a paladin, you need to get 60 and some decent gear. Its your fault then, and not necessarily a balance problem.
And the ranged excuse is a pretty big crux. Being able to deal damage from ranged is a big thing. I don't care if folks can close in; if you're a ranged attacker, don't expect to do as much as a melee attacker normally.
(I am corrected!)
Tested against PvP Mobs to see the effect lost against them in a PvE Environment with the Dodge/Parry added. I did this for a reason. 
You are entirely NOT reading what I'm saying... My DPS is FINE as it is now. I'm not complaining about that. I am perfectly fine doing quite a bit less than a Rogue, because as you said, I am ranged, and I have mail, as well as a few tricks. I am fine being below a Mage for similar reasons. I am even fine doing less damage than a Warrior (Although I will NOT agree with you that it should be that way, no offence to warriors but they are tanks not DPS. I do NOT however want them hurt by this) even if I dont agree with that one. None of that bothers me.
And no... Having a Strikers Mark and Beastalker while my target has a Valor/Might set and an Arcanite Reaper is NO different at that level with that setup than it is NOW if we have appropriate gear for our levels. I'm not even complaining about my DPS as it is now at all anyway. I don't know where you keep getting that from. And Im not complaining that my DPS is somehow too low now when we are out there. I REALLY dont understand what you are trying to justify here...
20+ People does NOT mean a ZergFest, far from it... Unless your enemies are lame. You would be surprised how really fun, tactical, and involved these all out wars can be... What do you think Battlegrounds is gonna be? 3v3 people running around? Hardly, its going to be armies of players.
What part of what I've been saying have you not been getting. My DPS on TEST Server with these changes in PLACE is approaching that of a Paladin. This has JACK to do with what gear I have, it has to do with my damage being SIGNIFICANTLY decreased with whats coming up. I am NOT saying my DPS is approaching that of a Paladin now...
I care if people can close in.. It doesnt MATTER if I dont melee as much as a Melee class if my damage is entirely CUT OFF while running around. No, it isnt a big crux. WHILE we are at range, YES we do decent damage, however, once our range is cut off, for the time being it is CUT OFF, we aren't doing anything. And the first thing anyone is going to do is try and cut of our range. They dont even have to maintain melee effectively make us obsolete and out of the battle, THEY just have to close range to stop all damage coming from us effectively, and stay there. All of this, by the way, WHILE they can still hit us because Melee can hit on the run. So while We are effectively taken out of the fight either trying to get range, or trying to kite, or whathave you. We are doing NO damage and they can MAINTAIN theres. No. Being ranged is good, but its not what you are trying to make it out to be.
Please stop making large blocks of text that nobody wants to read.
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WARNING! High dosages of Flea may lead to this crap:
So, what are we? Pullers? Because unlike a mage and rogue, we can wear mail? My guild doesn't let me pull. The groups I'm in constantly have a warrior to pull. Why? Because they have plate and a shield, so can survive more than two hits before they are boned.
To be honest, there's no real reason to let a hunter pull. There's no advantage in letting a hunter pull (although I understand this changes in MC due to aggro range) and the tank has to do some more aggro management to really get the same effect as if the tank pulled directly.
Although I imagine I'm just stating the obvious at this point Tegadil fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 12:17 AM.
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We were all impressed when Delphi Aegis wrote:
Do you have a single peice of the teir 1 set gear, Fae? Really.. none at all.. Hmm. Not like that agility makes a difference in damage, or anything.What's that? You're constantly seen wearing [Carrot on a stick] and [Argent Dawn Comission]? Oh my.
60 makes a difference. Period. Small skirmishes, group encouters and zerg-fests are all entirely different.
Just saying.
Bullshit. It makes a difference for THAT level against others of THAT level, or it makes me less effective against people of THAT level, it does NOT however effect things going on at MY level, because I am as effective against others of MY level as normal. And when I get to THAT level and have the gear at THAT level, my opponents will have thier gear at THAT level, and the difference will be the same. And this still has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on anything going on here. Im NOT complaining about my DPS as it is NOW.. Im complaining about how its going to drop NEXT Patch. What gear I have or dont have doesnt mean JACK, my DPS would still drop from whatever I was doing now with that gear on, if I was 60 with it and went over to Test. My DPS and effectiveness would STILL drop by the same ammount.
And uh.. I rarely have my Argent Dawn commision on, and my other slot is usually filled with Mark of the Chosen.
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Delphi Aegis had this to say about Tron:
And.. either way, Fae, your point is moot. They realize they nerfed hunter DPS without intending to, and thus are trying to fix it.Please stop making large blocks of text that nobody wants to read.
The only thing they said was unintended was the +Def being POSSIBLY too much. They haven't even come out and said that, they said it was on our "Watch" list.
To be honest I have NO problem with the +Def, its that in addition to having to be subjected to Dodge/Parry on top of it. +Def kinda sucks as it is now, but Im not nearly as upset about that because it was only a SLIGHT hit by itself. It is however a HUGE hit in conjunction with Dodge/Parry being added.
Unless I missed something recently, they haven't even said ANYTHING on that.
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Faelynn LeAndris wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Unless I missed something recently, they haven't even said ANYTHING on that.
Except me saying "They nerfed hunter DPS" is exactly like saying "They made the +def bonus and parry/block chance too high". Net result is the same, hunter DPS is nerfed, since most mobs are not "casters".
Can I randomly capitalize words like you too?
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Delphi Aegis said this about your mom:
Except me saying "They nerfed hunter DPS" is exactly like saying "They made the +def bonus and parry/block chance too high". Net result is the same, hunter DPS is nerfed, since most mobs are not "casters".Can I randomly capitalize words like you too?
Except thats just it, they have said +Def is too high, and as I said, no comment on why Dodge/Parry was added to Miss/Deflected. So I have no idea what your point was, besides you being correct in that our DPS was nerfed. And no you saying that is not exactly like saying all three, and even if it was you would still be incorrect because they haven't made a comment on it.
Parry/Dodge chance however has recieved no mention from anyone. Only +Def and that is the lesser of the issues.
And dont even get on that crap again, you do it all the damn time.. In fact that last time you made that stupid ass comment your hypocracy/irony was pointed out in the very same thread. So don't even go there. It's easier than typing in the italics code for empahsis. Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 12:32 AM.
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Tegadil spewed forth this undeniable truth:
To be honest, there's no real reason to let a hunter pull. There's no advantage in letting a hunter pull (although I understand this changes in MC due to aggro range) and the tank has to do some more aggro management to really get the same effect as if the tank pulled directly.Although I imagine I'm just stating the obvious at this point
Yeah, I stopped trying to be the puller in our parties back in WC. I just love how our class description calls us the best pullers, and gives us things like feign death, which I really only use when I pull aggro from the warrior.
Really, I only see this DPS nerf as a benefit to you and zaggon. Since I'll be pulling the mobs off you guys less and less.
And no matter how you slice it, it is a DPS nerf. Flea fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 12:33 AM.
I have provided details about this and have not had any responses either way.
And entirely too many threads have devolved into Fae arguing about hunters lately.
Thus, go read and respond to my leet info!
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Khyron wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
The thread started off with people asking about how the epic mounts will be handled.I have provided details about this and have not had any responses either way.
And entirely too many threads have devolved into Fae arguing about hunters lately.
Thus, go read and respond to my leet info!
Actually this thread was about patch notes. I got jumped on from the start because I was upset with them. I stayed on the defensive almost the entire thing as well, so you can hardly claim it as my doin. People have tried to make points that either didn't hold water or were very specific issues, to which I countered my own argument.
And um, there are quite a few WoW threads that dont have me arguing about hunters at all. In fact, the only threads that get me arguing about hunters are usually... Guess what? Patch Threads. Because I usually have something to say, and with good reason.
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From the book of Khyron, chapter 3, verse 16:
The thread started off with people asking about how the epic mounts will be handled.I have provided details about this and have not had any responses either way.
And entirely too many threads have devolved into Fae arguing about hunters lately.
Thus, go read and respond to my leet info!
Lies!
You still haven't posted anything about the paladin epic quest, and I still can't find details.
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Asha'man had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Hey Fae, they care.
Yeah, it's fun to read other forums...they aren't full of hatred, misery, and betrayal. ;p
- 300g (150 to one npc, 150 to another)
- 10 arthas' tears
- 6 arcanite bars
- 40 runecloth
- 5 stratholme holy waters.
- 1 Azerothian Diamond
- 1 Pristine Black Diamond
Additionally, Paladins need to kill a Tree miniboss in Dire Maul, and a new boss in Scholo. Khyron fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 11:32 AM.
Kodo : http://www.x-unit.net/Test/kodo.jpg
Raptor : http://www.x-unit.net/Test/epicraptor.jpg
Mechanostrider : http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=232760&poll_id=0&warned=y
Nightsaber : http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=232762&poll_id=0&warned=y
Wolf : http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/rexking/WoWScrnShot_040805_231709.jpg
Paladin Epic (UNCONFIRMED) : http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=233039
Warlock Epic : http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Derlok/14warlock.jpg Khyron fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 11:43 AM.
The wolf seems ok, at least an improvement over the current one.
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Reynar had this to say about dark elf butts:
Wow, that Warlock epic looks badass.The wolf seems ok, at least an improvement over the current one.
Warlocks got some major improvements in the badass look department.
The epic mount and the dreadmist helm make us look like the demon-summoners that we are.
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Falaanla Marr had this to say about Captain Planet:
Warlocks got some major improvements in the badass look department.The epic mount and the dreadmist helm make us look like the demon-summoners that we are.
Now, if we could only BE the badass demon summoners. That'd be great.
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Delphi Aegis had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Now, if we could only BE the badass demon summoners. That'd be great.
After having a Doomguard utterly demolish ogres in Dire Maul, I insist that you warlocks get in line. Behind people who have actual issues. "Our pets are useless!", my ass.
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This insanity brought to you by Asha'man:
After having a Doomguard utterly demolish ogres in Dire Maul, I insist that you warlocks get in line. Behind people who have actual issues. "Our pets are useless!", my ass.
You do realize that pet has to be charmed every 5 minutes (if you're lucky enough to get 5 minutes out of it), right? Or that the charm is fairly unreliable? Or that it is a pain to summon? Or that, once the charm breaks and the warlock can't re charm it, they get ripped a new one?
I'm not sure if that spell has a 1 hour re use timer on it like the infernal does.
Tell me when you find a raid that lets a warlock use a doomguard or infernal, though.
While I'll agree that warlocks are somewhat balanced (though a bit on the weak end), this is not a possible method to cite warlocks as being balanced. Falaanla Marr fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 02:07 PM.
I agree the tomes for the Infernal and the Doomguard are real hard to come by, but supposedly they're making it more common, so that's kinda moot... I'd also agree some new, non-charmed pet at 50 or 60 would be nice, but IMO the Doomguard is fine as it is, and nowhere near the hassle some people make it out to be.
It's all your talent bugs that need fixed, really 
Warlocks need bugfixes and raid utility more than better pets, IMO
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Peanut butter ass Shaq Asha'man booooze lime pole over bench lick:
I realize all the above, and I think it justifies the fact that the doomguard has one of the best debuffs in the whole game.
The fact that he's using the best debuff in the whole game on YOU half the time renders him pretty much useless.
Five minutes of an awesome pet is in no way worth rolling the dice to see if you wipe after he breaks.
As it stands there's no reason to ever summon a doomguard, and almost no reason to ever summon an infernal. They're not "bad pets" or "good pets with a penalty", they're not pets at all, they're smoke and fireworks. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 03:45 PM.
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Nobody really understood why Asha'man wrote:
Yep, they're awesome pets... Just real hard to summon =xWarlocks need bugfixes and raid utility more than better pets, IMO
Call me when you've played a warlock, please.
I picked the class for the pets. We have a ton of raid utility as it is -- soulstones are huge. Not to mention we can also make healthstones. We can make an imp that gives our entire party 500+ HP. We can banish mobs in Molten Core.
There is a lot we can do utility wise. All that tends to be worthless on a raid are our pets and our DOTs/Debuffs. The only reason the imp is worth a damn is because of his blood pact buff. Falaanla Marr fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 03:49 PM.
As for the fact itself that those higher pets need to be charmed... The biggest part of an enchanters eventual damage was their charms, and did you hear them complaining about that? No, they sure didn't. If anything, it was annoying to progress past OoW and find that every goddamned monster is immune to charm. But I disgress. I think these two charmed pets of yours are real cool.
Falaanla:
I dunno about Alliance side, but Warlocks got hit real bad last patch when they removed rez effects from Shaman reincarnate. Now Soulstone's no reason to have a warlock in a raid over a Shaman who can also heal and buff much moreso... And apart from that, there isn't much Warlocks can do that another class doesn't outshine them at. Like you said yourself, the only useful pet is the imp, and only for its blood pact. Yes, you have a lot of curses and DoTs you can do, but in the big picture, these don't mean much compared to other class spells. I don't want to sound mean about this or anything... But you certainly could use more than just one or two raid abilities. ;/
And please, don't give me the "play a warlock lawl" argument. I've teamed with the aforementioned warlock friend from L1 to 60, we've discussed strategy many, many times and I think I deserve some credit as to what a warlock can or cannot do. I may not know it all, but from what I've seen firsthand in MC or UBRS... Warlocks need some raid loving.
I'll give it to you that horde may be different, but on alliance, we still have a good bit of utility. Problem is, how do you give one side more without the other complaining? Not to mention that giving Horde warlocks more utility on raids will make alliance warlocks needed for even more. While that makes me happy, that could also lead to people calling us overpowered and things like soulstones getting nerfed
I know for a fact, though, that alliance-side warlocks have all the raid utility they need -- get too much more and we'll lose what gets us in groups. We'll lose our low population. Falaanla Marr fucked around with this message on 04-10-2005 at 06:02 PM.
So you do get to DOT stuff.
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Falaanla Marr impressed everyone with:
We'll lose our low population.
Can't say anything against that
But I've seen both sides of the warlock spectrum in my guild... one of them quit because he felt like I did, the other (my friend, let's call him Jim) would still be happy to play a warlock even if they took away his pets, curses and DoTs I bet.
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Addy had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Actually, debuff slots are reserved for, yes, warriors, but also warlocks for DPS.So you do get to DOT stuff.
I dunno about your MC raids, but in the ones I've been on, Warlocks only cast that one debuff that lowers Shadow resist, and sometimes the, uh, 'Curse of Elements'.
Other than that, they sit around and soulstone a lot, and use their imps.
Oh, and chain banish when someone messes up.
AM is more mana/taunt efficient anyway.
CoS is only useful for things like the molten destroyers that are 63 and resist somewhat regularly.
