quote:
Lesage enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Meh, I don't think going on a tyrade in a thread that's on the death of a highly respected individual because his religion supports anti-contraception is very respectful of the dead. But then that's me.I'm done....was earlier, but was then called out again, and I just HAD to have another word.
Why do I have to be respectful to the dead, then?
Did you sit down and show your respect when Timothy McVeigh died (NO, I am not equalizing the two, don't even bother)? Also, I didn't even start "ranting" or anything until Maradon started throwing various insults at me, all I said was that I don't mourn him -- which I don't.
Plus saying "just because his religion supports anti-contraception" is a little misleading considering he was the head of that religion. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 09:44 PM.
quote:
We were all impressed when Zaza wrote:
Plus saying "just because his religion supports anti-contraception" is a little misleading considering he was the head of that religion.
I could have sworn that was God. But then again I could be wrong.
quote:
Manticore wrote this stupid crap:
I could have sworn that was God. But then again I could be wrong.
No, God is the deity that the religion worships. If he was the head of the religion then he'd be worshipping himself. Also I don't believe in any deity, so it'd be kinda redudant to refer to what to me is a fictive entity as holding a real position. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 10:18 PM.
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Kael said:
New Pope has been selected:
That would be the greatest Pope evar! 
quote:
System.out.println("Zaza said this:");
No, God is the deity that the religion worships. If he was the head of the religion then he'd be worshipping himself.
You sure know a lot about a religion you love to bash don't you?
God is the head of the Roman Catholic religion. The pope is his representative on Earth.
quote:
-Yuri- probably should have googled this:
You sure know a lot about a religion you love to bash don't you?God is the head of the Roman Catholic religion. The pope is his representative on Earth.
That's kind of like someone being the head of their own fanclub. Not a very flattering view.
Regardless, it doesn't matter, the Pope is the chief of the doctrine that helps the spread of AIDS nicely along, which was really my entire point.
Also, is your belief really that fragile that you have to equate pointing out the problems in a religion to "loving to bash it"? Or is it just that any dissent which intrudes on your happy, stoneset worldview makes you go Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 11:14 PM.
?
quote:
System.out.println("Zaza said this:");
Also, is your belief really that fragile that you have to equate pointing out the problems in a religion to "loving to bash it"? Or is it just that any dissent which intrudes on your happy, stoneset worldview makes you go?
No, my belief is not fragile. I am quite sure of what I believe. I merely pay attention to the vast majority of your posts on religious themed threads and you seem to bring up Christianity and how horrible it is on a frequent basis.
quote:
-Yuri- had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
No, my belief is not fragile. I am quite sure of what I believe. I merely pay attention to the vast majority of your posts on religious themed threads and you seem to bring up Christianity and how horrible it is on a frequent basis.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
His major argument here is that he disagrees with the Pope for his views on abstinance. After talking to more level-headed Christians, I would hope that Zaza knows enough not to associate one thing said by someone as canon for everyone.
quote:
A sleep deprived -Yuri- stammered:
You sure know a lot about a religion you love to bash don't you?God is the head of the Roman Catholic religion. The pope is his representative on Earth.
Um...what's the problem with knowing a lot about something you choose to "bash"? The more you know about something, the more level headed you can be and the more you know about it when someone questions your knowledge.
quote:
System.out.println("Mr. Parcelan said this:");
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.His major argument here is that he disagrees with the Pope for his views on abstinance. After talking to more level-headed Christians, I would hope that Zaza knows enough not to associate one thing said by someone as canon for everyone.
I know he's entitled to them. I think its enlightening to read different opinions of people on these boards about different religions. I was just making an observation that his opinions towards Christianity tend to be very negative
His point about abstinance makes sense I suppose, but I don't see blaming the Pope or the religion for AIDS. The Church has maintained its view on contraception and birth control ever since the items were brought about. It's not even something that many christians even listen to anymore. I think the pope earned enough respect with the rest of the things he has done with his life not to be I need a good word here for an opinion that he didn't even come up with. -Yuri- fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 11:29 PM.
quote:
Everyone wondered WTF when -Yuri- wrote:
No, my belief is not fragile. I am quite sure of what I believe. I merely pay attention to the vast majority of your posts on religious themed threads and you seem to bring up Christianity and how horrible it is on a frequent basis.
OK, I'll follow your logic.
I have seen you defend christianity on lots of occasions and never agree with any the issues it has.
ergo - You are a stonewalled fundamentalist that will go to any length to defend your beloved Pope.
Isn't hyperbole fun? I could really go into a rant on my personal views of the spectacle that is the Catholic Church if you want, but that's really best saved for another thread. I don't mind christians that are level-headed and place reason and human dignity before doctrine at all, even if I think they're deluding themselves. Everyone deludes themselves, after all.
quote:
His point about abstinance makes sense I suppose, but I don't see blaming the Pope or the religion for AIDS. The Church has maintained its view on contraception and birth control ever since the items were brought about. It's not even something that many christians even listen to anymore. I think the pope earned enough respect with the rest of the things he has done with his life not to be I need a good word here for an opinion that he didn't even come up with.
So, the fact that anti-abortion doctrine wasn't made up by people who bomb abortion clinics means they get off blame free?
And clearly some christians in Africa are listening, not to mention all those abstinence programs in good ol' USA. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 11:31 PM.
quote:
Mr. Parcelan screamed this from the crapper:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions.His major argument here is that he disagrees with the Pope for his views on abstinance. After talking to more level-headed Christians, I would hope that Zaza knows enough not to associate one thing said by someone as canon for everyone.
I don't think Zaza even came close to implying anywhere that that he holds anyone but the Pope responsible for his policies and views. I may have seemed to imply such a thing, in holding that, according to what I've read, it's RCC or Vatican policy(in that it holds amongst the highest level of Vatican authority, of which the Pope is uncontestably a part), but I would assert that Zaza's main beef is with the Pope's policy and does not automatically apply to all Catholics.
In short, knock knock?
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
System.out.println("Zaza said this:");
And clearly some christians in Africa are listening, not to mention all those abstinence programs in good ol' USA.
Actually, they don't seem to be listening. That's why the mentioned programs don't accomplish anything. 
quote:
From the book of Karnaj, chapter 3, verse 16:
knock knock?
Who's there?
quote:
Karnaj said this about your mom:
I don't think Zaza even came close to implying anywhere that that he holds anyone but the Pope responsible for his policies and views. I may have seemed to imply such a thing, in holding that, according to what I've read, it's RCC or Vatican policy(in that it holds amongst the highest level of Vatican authority, of which the Pope is uncontestably a part), but I would assert that Zaza's main beef is with the Pope's policy and does not automatically apply to all Catholics.In short, knock knock?
You assert correctly. I do not blame the Vatican for causing the deaths because they are Catholic. I blame them for causing the deaths. I do not like the Catholic Church, admittedly, but I feel I have good reason to do so, not "religion sux lol" and it certainly doesn't mean I treat Catholics like lesser human beings - unless they start talking about how the war against contraception is necessary that is.
quote:
Everyone wondered WTF when Mr. Parcelan wrote:
Who's there?
quote:
Mr. Parcelan screamed this from the crapper:
Who's there?
Tiny.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
-Yuri- had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Actually, they don't seem to be listening. That's why the mentioned programs don't accomplish anything.
This is how they are listening:
"Contraception is a sin! So is sex!"
"Hmm, I really want to have sex. That's a sin, so I probably shouldn't add ANOTHER sin to it. Oh well, here we go, mr unprotected penis!"
Hilarity and STDs ensue.
quote:
Karnaj spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Tiny.
Tiny who?
quote:
System.out.println("Zaza said this:");
This is how they are listening:"Contraception is a sin! So is sex!"
"Hmm, I really want to have sex. That's a sin, so I probably shouldn't add ANOTHER sin to it. Oh well, here we go, mr unprotected penis!"
Hilarity and STDs ensue.
Well, if they were truly listening to the church, they wouldn't even have sex in the first place, would they?
quote:
And now, we sprinkle Mr. Parcelan liberally with Old Spice!
Tiny who?
TINY FUCKED A STUMP!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ahh, I love that joke.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
-Yuri- thought about the meaning of life:
Well, if they were truly listening to the church, they wouldn't even have sex in the first place, would they?
That's a non sequitor. Kindly stop trying to derail the argument because you can't back up your previous points.
Having sex is a very basic human desire. Repressing it has very limited success. Putting rubber on your penis is absolutely NOT a basic human desire. Repressing it is much much much much easier. They're doing both, which essentially results in a major mess since you fail to hinder people from doing what spreads STDs, while depriving them of the only safety measure there is.
I understand Za's disagreement with the Pope and the anger over what's happening in Africa, and I respect him for it.
I disagree (I guess obviously) in the belief in a deity, and I feel that at times, although Za is in general a respectful debator, at times I feel he steps into the line of just being a jerk. Sorry, but, that's my opinion
I'd love to debate with you and discuss things, now that I'm smarter
quote:
How.... Lenlalron Flameblaster.... uughhhhhh:
I think he was being sarcastic.I understand Za's disagreement with the Pope and the anger over what's happening in Africa, and I respect him for it.
I disagree (I guess obviously) in the belief in a deity, and I feel that at times, although Za is in general a respectful debator, at times I feel he steps into the line of just being a jerk. Sorry, but, that's my opinion
I'd love to debate with you and discuss things, now that I'm smarter
It really depends on how you define "jerk". I don't have a very bright view of organized religion in general. Does that mean I should keep my opinions to myself, however valid they are, just to avoid possibly insulting someone? I mean, consider that you just voiced an opinion that could be taken as a personal insult to me. Does that mean you stepped over the line of being a jerk just now?
I think "being a jerk" in debating entails constructing arguments that are solely meant to piss off people who believe in X or support Y, but that's my take of it. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 11:49 PM.
Now, I don't have the desire to go find points where it's like that, but, it's only an opinion, so, don't put too much stock into it.
And, as well, it's important to argue. Faith without grounds in reason * is ridiculous, and I have tackled many issues and continue trying to grow intellectually and understand Christianity from a spiritual and rational aspect.
*I disagree with the 'faith and reason are exclusive' argument. Lenlalron Flameblaster fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 11:59 PM.
Blessed Be Karol Wojtyla, may you rest in peace.
quote:
Zaza thought about the meaning of life:
Why do I have to be respectful to the dead, then?
You don't have to be, but if your point was really just that you weren't mourning his passing, you could have, ya know, just not said anything at all to begin with. Instead you saw an opportunity to bash the Catholic Church (and by extension, the Pope as the leader of that institution) and you jumped on it like a mother-in-law at a buffet.
quote:
Lenlalron Flameblaster had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
No, I don't mean that. I should have defined jerk better. I consider people being jerks when their delivery is more aggressive than it needs to be.Now, I don't have the desire to go find points where it's like that, but, it's only an opinion, so, don't put too much stock into it.
How aggressive an argument "needs to be" is a very fleeting thing. Sure though, I'm not gonna get hooked up on that.
quote:
Razor had this to say about Pirotess:
I'm wondering about most of this arguement being relevant, seeing as the Catholic Church turned around and gave into the fact that you can use condom's to prevent the spread of AIDS, and IIRC this change happened late last year, around November/December, and most of the articles you've posted are before this decission came around. What happened was the fact that enough governments in the world said that this needed to happen, and it finally happened. What a crazy world.Blessed Be Karol Wojtyla, may you rest in peace.
Link?
quote:
Callalron had this to say about the Spice Girls:
You don't have to be, but if your point was really just that you weren't mourning his passing, you could have, ya know, just not said anything at all to begin with. Instead you saw an opportunity to bash the Catholic Church (and by extension, the Pope as the leader of that institution) and you jumped on it like a mother-in-law at a buffet.
Why, Callalron, your new thought-reading cap fits you so well. Let me try that.
You really didn't have to come in here and argue, since if your entire point was that it's so obvious I was just bashing the church for the fun of it everyone could have seen that. However, since you saw a chance to rush to the defense of your beloved God in the sky and attack the infidel heathens that would dare challenge his Voice on the Earth's divine word, you jumped on it like a mother-in-law at a buffet.
Fascinating, this new technology. Where did you get ahold of it?
It absolutely had nothing to do with initially being a response to Maradon's "all europs hate da church if u dont mourn u da relijun hatah". THat would conflict with your psychic powers, and golly gee, we can't have that.
Seriously, are you ever going to learn to formulate an argument without an army of strawmen marching beneath your banner? It would be incredibly refreshing. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-03-2005 at 12:04 AM.
quote:
Zaza's account was hax0red to write:
Why, Callalron, your new thought-reading cap fits you so well. Let me try that.You really didn't have to come in here and argue, since if your entire point was that it's so obvious I was just bashing the church for the fun of it everyone could have seen that. However, since you saw a chance to rush to the defense of your beloved God in the sky and attack the infidel heathens that would dare challenge his Voice on the Earth's divine word, you jumped on it like a mother-in-law at a buffet.
Fascinating, this new technology. Where did you get ahold of it?
Newsflash for you Sparky. I'm not Catholic--at all. I'm not Christian--at all. I don't even really believe in God--at all. In fact I'm closer to being the infidel heathen you accuse you me of attacking.
But despite all that, and despite the fact that I disagreed with the Pope's position on a lot of things, I was still able to respect him for the man he was, the life he lived and the fact that he was true to his beliefs, whether me or anyone else liked them or not. And if all else failed, I could at least accord him respect as the head of a nation.
Looks like we gotta tweak that thought-reading cap a bit before European release, eh?
quote:
Nobody really understood why Callalron wrote:
Newsflash for you Sparky. I'm not Catholic--at all. I'm not Christian--at all. I don't even really believe in God--at all. In fact I'm closer to being the infidel heathen you accuse you me of attacking.But despite all that, and despite the fact that I disagreed with the Pope's position on a lot of things, I was still able to respect him for the man he was, the life he lived and the fact that he was true to his beliefs, whether me or anyone else liked them or not. And if all else failed, I could at least accord him respect as the head of a nation.
Looks like we gotta tweak that thought-reading cap a bit before European release, eh?
You're a little slow to pick up on sarcasm, aren't you?
Your style of debate seems to be to hurl strawmen wildly into the air without a care in the world. I replicated that in a mocking, utterly exhaggerated manner to show you how ridiculous it is... and you took me seriously.
I don't know about you, but I think that's kind of sad. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-03-2005 at 12:08 AM.
And to correct a previous statement, I find what I heard was somewhat misleading; it's mainly groups either within the Church, or that of the Spanish disoce(sp), I have heard rumblings within the local church as well.
quote:
Razor Model 2000 was programmed to say:
OneTwoThreeAnd to correct a previous statement, I find what I heard was somewhat misleading; it's mainly groups either within the Church, or that of the Spanish disoce(sp), I have heard rumblings within the local church as well.
That's what I thought as well, I would have been really surprised if doctrine had made such a major change and I hadn't heard of it.
I really hope to see the day when the Catholic Church adopts more humane views on sex.
quote:
Callalron had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Please to be pointing to exactly what you consider to be strawmen in the two posts I've made in this thread.
Very well:
quote:
You don't have to be, but if your point was really just that you weren't mourning his passing, you could have, ya know, just not said anything at all to begin with. Instead you saw an opportunity to bash the Catholic Church (and by extension, the Pope as the leader of that institution) and you jumped on it like a mother-in-law at a buffet.
In this little quoted sentence, rather than meeting any of my arguments head on, you made up a second argument which simplified and misrepresented everything I said by inventing a false motive.
quote:
Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
Seems pretty dead-on. You didn't attack any of my arguments or any of my positions on church doctrine, you made up the argument that I argue just because I hate catholics.
quote:
Zaza thought about the meaning of life:
In this little quoted sentence, rather than meeting any of my arguments head on, you made up a second argument which simplified and misrepresented everything I said by inventing a false motive.
I wasn't making a second argument. My point there was "You don't have to think kindly of the dead. You could just say nothing." I can only assume all this comes from either hostility to religion, or jerkiness for the sake of being a jerk. Since this board (and the 'net in general) and jerkhood go hand-in-hand, that one was kind of a given, so it wasn't offered up as a choice. Plus, my overdeveloped sense of cynicism automatically leads me to assign the worst possible motive to people's actions.
And army of strawmen? This must be that "Army of One" thing I keep hearing about. Callalron fucked around with this message on 04-03-2005 at 12:32 AM.
quote:
Zephyer Kyuukaze had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
That would be the greatest Pope evar!
I second this. We must make it so.
Quickly, Jackal Wonder, to the Vatican!
It is held in thought
only by the understanding
of the Wind.
quote:
Lesage had this to say about Captain Planet:
I always thought that it was an issue of respect
Well, duh, but why would you respect someone in death that you didn't respect in life? It makes no sense!
