Abstinence works. Barring things not under your control (rape), you will not get AIDS from sex if you choose to not have sex. I don't think anybody is really trying to argue this.
TEACHING abstinence is a mixed bag. It works on some people, but most people choose not to abstain, and have sex. When they do, it's better for people to be wearing condoms, because it makes it safer. I don't think anybody's arguing this either.
The Catholic church teaches that birth control is a sin. I personally disagree, but some in here might agree if they hold the Church's beliefs that strongly. According to some sources, the Catholic Church (or members of same) have been spreading misinformation or flat out lies about condoms' effectiveness, or lack thereof. If this is true, then this is a pretty stupid action on their part. I don't think anybody is arguing this either.
What people are REALLY arguing about here is how far 'up the chain' the responsibility goes. Was the Pope merely saying that 'birth control is a sin', or was his policy to say that condoms were ineffective? If it's the former, then you can't really fault him, as it's simply a belief he holds. If it's the latter, then one could argue that he's causing people to not bother with condoms, increasing their sexual risk.
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Mr. Parcelan enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Wow.Uh...you know, preaching is just really saying stuff, not ordering people to do stuff. Saying that the church is responsible for deaths in Africa by preaching abstinence is the same as saying that I'm responsible for Blindy's death because I think shooting myself in the head is cool.
You're still not even paying attention. If it was restricted to teaching abstinence and yelling "god hates your penis!" to the faithful that listen that might be rolleyes worthy but I wouldn't get very upset over it - despised, I suppose, but not angry. It's their more direct involvement like spreading lies and using local political power to further their agenda - an agenda which claims lies - that really upsets me. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-05-2005 at 06:29 AM.
Does this mean that they tell their Priests to lie about it? No. Most of these people went to seminary back in the 50's anyway. Think about it for a while.
What makes you so sure that this is a purposeful and willful deception of the masses orchestrated by the Pope himself?
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Verily, Blindy. doth proclaim:
The official Canon of the Catholic Church is that no birth control method is 100% effective
Well, the religion is based around an act of immaculate conception...
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Zaza had this to say about dark elf butts:
But, to all the people with the intellectual complexity of "if A is spoken against, A is hated irrationally"
Let me just say this about that. Given the volume, intensity and duration of your on-going commentary on this subject, if you aren't actually someone who hates (or at least really dislikes) the Catholic Church, you're doing one hell of an impression of someone who does. You certainly have not said anything in positive vein about the church, at least that I can recall. And I think the ship has pretty much sailed on you being able to claim having a neutral viewpoint.
Given that we have been exposed to 6 pages of you saying that one of the central tenets of the Catholic faith is wrong (morally, at least it seems) are you really all that stupified that people are holding the view of you that they are? If it was just one or two folks stubbornly arguing the point against you, you'd have a valid basis for claiming they just don't get it. But it's been more that chiming in with counterpoints. Maybe you're putting some vibe out there that you're not aware of and folks are picking up on it. Callalron fucked around with this message on 04-05-2005 at 05:22 PM.
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Lashanna, what the hell are you doin' out here? You oughta be in bed.
Well, the religion is based around an act of immaculate conception...
So the biblical scholars mis-translated the Hebrew word for "young woman" into the Greek word for "virgin," which was a pretty easy mistake to make, since there is only a subtle difference in the spelling. But back then it was the "virgin" that caught people's attention. It's not every day a virgin conceives and bears a son. So you keep that for a couple of hundred years, and the next thing you know, you have the Roman Catholic church.
It's not something people hear about.
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Callalron had this to say about Pirotess:
Let me just say this about that. Given the volume, intensity and duration of your on-going commentary on this subject, if you aren't actually someone who hates (or at least really dislikes) the Catholic Church, you're doing one hell of an impression of someone who does. You certainly have not said anything in positive vein about the church, at least that I can recall. And I think the ship has pretty much sailed on you being able to claim having a neutral viewpoint.Given that we have been exposed to 6 pages of you saying that one of the central tenets of the Catholic faith is wrong (morally, at least it seems) are you really all that stupified that people are holding the view of you that they are? If it was just one or two folks stubbornly arguing the point against you, you'd have a valid basis for claiming they just don't get it. But it's been more that chiming in with counterpoints. Maybe you're putting some vibe out there that you're not aware of and folks are picking up on it.
Or maybe people just can't be bothered to form a rational argument since it's much, much easier to scream "YOU HATE RELIGION!!!!!" and pretend the problem goes away.
Note that even if I mindlessly hated religion dismissing what I say based on that would be an ad hom, so it's retarded and fallacious either way. It doesn't matter how many people are picking up the vibe and unless you can pointedly display just where my words would lead your thoughts towards "pseudo intellectual irrationally bashign a world leader" then I think I'll just dismiss this offhand as placing the blame for the general ineptness to argue a point on me. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-06-2005 at 12:31 AM.
Opposition to use of condoms pre-dates AIDS and this pope. And I don't think the Church is capable of the sort of bureaucratic turning on a dime that you seem to be hoping for. Bureaucracies move slowly and the church probably moves slowest of all. Hell, it took them decades to implement a lot of stuff decided on at Vatican II, and those were changes they wanted to make.
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How.... Zaza.... uughhhhhh:
You're still not even paying attention. If it was restricted to teaching abstinence and yelling "god hates your penis!" to the faithful that listen that might be rolleyes worthy but I wouldn't get very upset over it - despised, I suppose, but not angry. It's their more direct involvement like spreading lies and using local political power to further their agenda - an agenda which claims lies - that really upsets me.
You probably had links to these latter accusations. Sorry to trouble you, but could you post them?
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Callalron screamed this from the crapper:
Except you seem to have worked up a good head of steam of in the righteous indignation department. FWIW, I don't agree with the Church's position on contraception either, but I can manage to do it in a way that doesn't leave me looking so worked up and I can still give the Pope credit for the good things he's done in his life and during his pontificate.
Now you're just arguing style over substance. How he speaks may be edgy, but who cares? If Zaza wants to preface every reply with "You shit-gargling cock jockey," that's his perogative. To quote Spock, it's a "colorful metaphor," and nothing else. It doesn't change the nuts and bolts of his argument.
Moreover, he's under no obligation discuss any other aspect of Church or papal policy than what his original claim said, nor is he obliged to acknowledge anything good the pope did if he doesn't want to. All he has to do is defend his assertions, which he has. How he phrases his defense his immaterial; what he says is everything.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
You don't have to "hate relijun" to hate fucked-up things or people who postulate them.
I still challenge you to point out where I haven't been calm and rational. I see a lot of empty chatter and very little substance from you. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-06-2005 at 02:06 AM.
He dead.
What? I'm looking for the Pope!
What wrong with you man? I say you he dead!
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Snugglits stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Yeah, I'd like to see the Pope.He dead.
What? I'm looking for the Pope!
What wrong with you man? I say you he dead!
Wait, so I flew all the way to Rome, free, to see the Pope, and you're telling me he isn't working today?
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Demos stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Wait, so I flew all the way to Rome, free, to see the Pope, and you're telling me he isn't working today?
He's passed on! This pope is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, He's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisibile!!
THIS IS AN EX-POPE!!
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Tarquinn wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
He's passed on! This pope is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, He's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisibile!!
THIS IS AN EX-POPE!!
He's pining.
quote:Fuck your threads
Jensus had this to say about Knight Rider:
Fuck this thread
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While possessed by the spirit of Somthor, Blackened wrote:
Fuck your threads
Fuck you
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Jensus had this to say about pies:
Fuck you
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Alidane had this to say about Knight Rider:
Fuck me?
What? no! Thats gross.. no man love! HAVE THE CATHOLICS TAUGHT YOU NOTHING!?
