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Pvednes had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
It kind of bugs me that people had a go at the Pope about all that, and then gush all over Buddhism, when despite the sunglasses, the Dalai Lama makes the Pope look like a swinger from California.
Due to the humor of this statement and my own curiosity, I demand an elaboration on this gushing and this comparison.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Knight Rider:
Due to the humor of this statement and my own curiosity, I demand an elaboration on this gushing and this comparison.
When the Pope says stuff that is intensely stuffy on things like sexuality, women, etc, he's instantly denounced by various people for holding said views, but when the Dalai Lama says something equally or more stuffy on the same subjects, the same people sort of cough and pretend he didn't say it.
Off the top of my head, the Dalai Lama has said specifically that for the devout buddhist, these behaviours are nonos:
-masturbation;
-man on man;
-woman on woman;
-heterosexual intercourse for the purpose of procreation during the daytime;
-intercourse involving the mouth, anus, hands, thighs, or calves;
-Any sexual behaviour involving anyone on a great big list of types of people;
-None on rough ground or temples;
-For monks, any form of sexual emission is right out.
Pvednes fucked around with this message on 04-04-2005 at 02:24 AM.
There are many more.
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Sean had this to say about Cuba:
did you know u can get aids from tears??
I'd cry, but then I'd have to put a condom on my face.
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Demos had this to say about dark elf butts:
But the Dalai Lama's followers don't go out actively trying to hinder the efforts of those trying to distribute contraception.
I don't think preaching actively means actively hindering.
It was really starting to look like Weekend at Bernie's towards the end there for the poor fellow.
I come from an Irish Catholic family. I actually stopped going after first communion because I disliked the "sunday exercise" of Stand up, sit down, kneel and figured if I wanted to talk to God that I could "Dial Direct" instead of praying to some dead Apostle or Mary.
No organ music at the Evangelical Free church I go to now. A normal band with electric guitars, drums, keyboards. And, I can use birth control! 
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Kaglaaz How'ler stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
It was really starting to look like Weekend at Bernie's towards the end there for the poor fellow.
I like to consider myself devout, but that sounds pretty funny.
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Blindy. had this to say about Robocop:
They tell them contraception in sinful in the same breath as they say pre-marital sex is sinful.If they choose to ignore one, why wouldn't they ignore both?
Oh thats right, because it prevents your villanification of a respected world leader from working. My bad.
Is this some kind of competition to see which poster can ignore the facts at hand the most and go "LOL U HATE RELIJUVN ROFL ROFL ROFL IM SO SMART" enough times to make it true argument ad nauseum? I already covered this, kindly remove head from ass and go back a bit in the topic. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-04-2005 at 07:16 AM.
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I wish Zaza would say this more often:
Is this some kind of competition to see which poster can ignore the facts at hand the most and go "LOL U HATE RELIJUVN ROFL ROFL ROFL IM SO SMART" enough times to make it true argument ad nauseum? I already covered this, kindly remove head from ass and go back a bit in the topic.
Your argument sucks. What the church teaches would work if people followed it. True? True.
If people don't follow it or half ass it, it is not the church's fault. True? True.
You've got nothing. True? True.
The last time you personally attended a catholic mass or heard a catholic Priest teach about sexual morality was never. True? True. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 04-04-2005 at 08:43 AM.
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From the book of Blindy., chapter 3, verse 16:
Your argument sucks. What the church teaches would work if people followed it. True? True.If people don't follow it or half ass it, it is not the church's fault. True? True.
You've got nothing. True? True.
The last time you personally attended a catholic mass or heard a catholic Priest teach about sexual morality was never. True? True.
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Tarquinn likes to scream this out during sex:
Their methods obviously do not work, yet they actively propagate against and prevent methods that do work. True?
I see so you're back to blaming the church for people ignoring it.
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Then why did you try to fuck him like a bitch, Blindy.?
I see so you're back to blaming the church for people ignoring it.
I think their question is; At what point do you stop preaching gospel that no one listens to?
It's not something people hear about.
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Pvednes had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
It kind of bugs me that people had a go at the Pope about all that, and then gush all over Buddhism, when despite the sunglasses, the Dalai Lama makes the Pope look like a swinger from California.
The Dalai Lama is simply the spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhism - he doesn't speak for every Buddhist or even every sect of Tibetan Buddhism. Can't paint people as gushing all over Buddhism simply because they don't denounce what the Dalai Lama says.
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Pvednes spewed forth this undeniable truth:
When the Pope says stuff that is intensely stuffy on things like sexuality, women, etc, he's instantly denounced by various people for holding said views, but when the Dalai Lama says something equally or more stuffy on the same subjects, the same people sort of cough and pretend he didn't say it.
This is possibly due to the fact that the Pope isn't simply the spiritual head of Catholocism - it is believed he communes directly with God. I would assume that the words of the Pope become indoctrinated and part of the orthodoxy of the Church (I could be mistaken about this though). Again I could be wrong, but I believe -every- Catholic is required to take his words as law and apply them to their life (orthodoxy becoming orthopraxy).
From this I believe that the Pope is denounced so vigorously because i) his words are taken seriously, and ii) the sheer size of his audience: every practicing Catholic (or at least every fundamentalist, or even Orthodox, Catholic).
The Dalai Lama may have a large following, but I sincerely doubt many take his words as scripture (whether they are Buddhists or not).
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A thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters couldn't ever match Sean:
I think their question is; At what point do you stop preaching gospel that no one listens to?
When you're a CHURCH, never. That's pretty much your job description.
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Blindy. had this to say about Captain Planet:
I see so you're back to blaming the church for people ignoring it.
No one here blames the church for that. 
Wether it is the general horniness of people, stupid missionars, or aliens using mind control lasers; it does not matter why their methods fail; fact is, they do.
What matters is that the church actively sabotages methods that are proven to work. That's what we are blaming the church for.
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Entertain me with more of your bullshit, Blindy..
When you're a CHURCH, never. That's pretty much your job description.
Well, see, there's the crux of the argument.
Zaza and whoever else believe the church has an obligation to pursue fresh tactics in this crusade against AIDS, and you don't. 
It's not something people hear about.
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Check out the big brains on Sean:
Well, see, there's the crux of the argument.Zaza and whoever else believe the church has an obligation to pursue fresh tactics in this crusade against AIDS, and you don't.
No, I just think that unless the Church is preaching something directly harmful, they shouldn't have to do anything. What they are preaching would work if people followed their teachings. If they do not, then they are not at fault. Remember, ZaZa and Jens are both saying the Pope is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.
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In a disastrous attempt to be funny and clever, Toktuk wrote:
The whole fucking thread was a bitchfest on the Catholic Church/Pope's on message on birth control and disease control - abstinance.
this thread was about Maradon and Za and then Tok blowing a 4-letter thread about the pope's death way the hell out of proportion 
at some point blindy said something too
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Tarquinn was listening to Cher while typing:
Wether it is the general horniness of people, stupid missionars, or aliens using mind control lasers; it does not matter why their methods fail; fact is, they do.What matters is that the church actively sabotages methods that are proven to work. That's what we are blaming the church for.
The methods being taught work when followed. They are not followed. The methods are not flawed. Maybe the methods they're using to *teach* the methods are flawed, but you'll never get everybody to do what you say outside of some serious mind control, so that's a moot point. (I think I just confused myself.)
That said, condoms do *help*. They are *not* an invincible shield. THAT is what people should be saying. On all sides. Anybody who says otherwise is at fault.
I happen to be a Christian myself (I suppose you could say non-denominational) and I've got many, many problems with the Catholic church, far too many to detail (nor do I really want to), but I think their policy on birth control is asinine. That said, sex is inherently a dangerous activity, and needs to be treated as something that can kill you (because it CAN), regardless of your religious beliefs. If you're doing it at all, be responsible.
My two cents.
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System.out.println("TheOriginalZane said this:");
Well I'm a practicing catholic and well even though hes being a dick, Zaza does have a point. We all know Catholism only supports abstenence because sex is only supposed to be for procreation, after marriage. But did you all miss the point where the catholic church went out of their way, stop preaching, and started sabatoging someone else's Well I'm a practicing catholic and even though hes being a dick, Zaza does have a point. We all know Catholicism only supports abstinence because sex is only supposed to be for procreation, after marriage. But did you all miss the point where the Catholic Church went out of their way and started sabotaging someone else's plans for helping the African people. This is not only morally wrong, but against the teachings of the Bible and Christianity. Since the Pope did nothing to try and right the wrong that his religion had done, it is his fault. But he should not be put at fault for trying to push the catholic belief structure. Abstinence until marriage is a rule that a catholic is supposed to respect, and by not respecting that rule, the Africans throw the help of the Catholic Church out the window. Seriously, if your not going to listen to the rules, who is going to help you? Why should the Pope, and two thousand years of tradition change for people who cant even follow the basic instructions of this institution? It shouldnt.
Come back and post when you aren't toasted. Thanks.
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System.out.println("Blindy. said this:");
I was more going for the fact that he said the same exact thing twice in a row.
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Well I'm a practicing catholic and well even though hes being a dick, Zaza does have a point.
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Well I'm a practicing catholic and even though hes being a dick, Zaza does have a point.
kk -Yuri- fucked around with this message on 04-04-2005 at 12:47 PM.
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-Yuri- had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
kk
I cut and pasted it wrong.
I don't smoke.
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Well I'm a practicing catholic and even though hes being a dick, Zaza does have a point. We all know Catholicism only supports abstinence because sex is only supposed to be for procreation, after marriage. But did you all miss the point where the Catholic Church went out of their way and started sabotaging someone else's plans for helping the African people. This is not only morally wrong, but against the teachings of the Bible and Christianity. Since the Pope did nothing to try and right the wrong that his religion had done, it is his fault. But he should not be put at fault for trying to push the catholic belief structure. Abstinence until marriage is a rule that a catholic is supposed to respect, and by not respecting that rule, the Africans throw the help of the Catholic Church out the window. Seriously, if your not going to listen to the rules, who is going to help you? Why should the Pope, and two thousand years of tradition change for people who cant even follow the basic instructions of this institution? It shouldnt.
Happy now? TheOriginalZane fucked around with this message on 04-04-2005 at 12:51 PM.
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System.out.println("TheOriginalZane said this:");
Happy now?
No. It still makes no logical sense because at first you said you agreed with Zaza, then said that the catholic church was a saboteur of sorts, and then said you disagreed with Zaza.
GG. -Yuri- fucked around with this message on 04-04-2005 at 12:57 PM.
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This one time, at -Yuri- camp:
No. It still makes no logical sense because at first you said you agreed with Zaza, then said that the catholic church was a saboteur of sorts, and then said you disagreed with Zaza.GG.
I agreed with zaza partially. What's wrong with that? Sounds like your just being a dick.
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Everyone wondered WTF when TheOriginalZane wrote:
Since the Pope did nothing to try and right the wrong that his religion had done, it is his fault.But he should not be put at fault for trying to push the catholic belief structure.
So, he's at fault. But he's also not at fault?
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System.out.println("TheOriginalZane said this:");
I agreed with zaza partially. What's wrong with that? Sounds like your just being a dick.
Okay then. What the hell does this mean then?
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But did you all miss the point where the Catholic Church went out of their way and started sabotaging someone else's plans for helping the African people. This is not only morally wrong, but against the teachings of the Bible and Christianity. Since the Pope did nothing to try and right the wrong that his religion had done, it is his fault.
That's the point you 'agreed' with Zaza on. Where the hell did the Catholic Church 'go out of their way' to sabotage people's plans for helping the African people? You yourself say in the next couple of sentences, if you call them sentences:
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Why should the Pope, and two thousand years of tradition change for people who cant even follow the basic instructions of this institution? It shouldnt.
Which actually says the correct thought that the church has maintained their view on contraception since it's inception, they didn't adopt it to 'sabotage' Africans.
And yes, I am a dick, but at least I am a intelligent dick.
People with moronic comments like you are what ruin the image for people like Zaza. At least he came in here with a decent debate. -Yuri- fucked around with this message on 04-04-2005 at 01:07 PM.
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Reynar's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
So, he's at fault. But he's also not at fault?
I'm saying he should be responsible for the actions of the priests, since they lied about contraception.
What he shouldn't be held responsible for is trying to promote abstinence.
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Sean probably says this to all the girls:
I think their question is; At what point do you stop preaching gospel that no one listens to?
You don't change your doctrine just because what you're saying isn't popular.
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-Yuri- had this to say about dark elf butts:
Which actually says the correct thought that the church has maintained their view on contraception since it's inception, they didn't adopt it to 'sabotage' Africans.
It's fine for them to say, "Yeah guys we think using contraceptives is wrong" all the time. That's perfectly okay. No problem.
However, saying "yeah guys contraceptives are bad. you shouldn't be having sex anyway. but even if you are having sex, you still shouldn't use a condom in any case. besides, they don't work at all so there's no point! don't even try!" is a terrible thing, especially when preaching at people that don't know any better and they believe you because you're with the church.
Preach what you want. That's absolutely fine. Don't lie to make/support your point, though. That's not cool. Kegwen fucked around with this message on 04-04-2005 at 02:38 PM.
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This insanity brought to you by Kegwen:
Preach what you want. That's absolutely fine. Don't lie to make/support your point, though. That's not cool.
Completely agree.
No one is forced to be in the Catholic Church. And it's not like the Pope and his bishops and associated priests are out there holding a bazooka to people's heads. People either belong to the Church or they don't. And if they choose to leave, no one's blocking the door on the way out.
And if people stay, they can play one of two ways. A)They choose to follow the rules and they don't use condoms or other birth control. That could suck for them, or it might not. Everyone's mileage will vary. Or B)they practice what is commonly called "cafeteria Catholicism" here in America and accept some rules, but use condoms anyway, and they rationalize it in their minds in whatever way makes acceptable to them. Catholics in Africa have already incorporated elements of animism into their local rites, and there's certainly no shortage of people who would otherwise consider themselves "good Catholics" in America, and Europe for that matter, who use birth control. So it's not like Catholics (or any other religion) not following all the rules all the time is a new thing.
And I'm pretty sure there's no shortage of charities and NGOs running around handing out condoms in Africa, so if people really want them, I'm sure they can get them. And let's not overlook the role of certain societal mores (ie, guy dies from AIDS, his brother take his wife as another bride) that contribute to the spread of AIDS possibly as much or more than the Church's position on condom use.
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Blindy. had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Your argument sucks. What the church teaches would work if people followed it. True? True.If people don't follow it or half ass it, it is not the church's fault. True? True.
You've got nothing. True? True.
The last time you personally attended a catholic mass or heard a catholic Priest teach about sexual morality was never. True? True.
"It would work if would just work" is the best argument ever.
In other news: You're a total retard.
Failure of somebody to follow instructions is not a failure of the instructions. Just because people aren't LIKELY to follow the instructions does not make the instructions themselves faulty.
Teaching abstinence is highly flawed because it doesn't work. It doesn't matter that it doesn't work because people don't follow it -- it doesn't work. If there was a cure to cancer that involved dragging your balls over hot shards of glass every morning for the rest of your life, then well, I wouldn't want much money going into spreading that cure because noone would follow it. I think abstinence teaching is utterly irrelevant in the entire matter.
But, to all the people with the intellectual complexity of "if A is spoken against, A is hated irrationally" I present my argument, in simple smilie form:
Teaching sexual responsibility - Teaching to wrap up if you do really want to have sex - 
Teaching that if you ever have sex god will be angry at you and he will be even MORE angry at you if you dare to put rubber around your penis - 
Working politically on a local level in AIDS-stricken countries to undermine support for contraception distribution groups, demonizing them in speeches and articles and guilt-attacking people who use their services, in essence working not only to stop followers of your own religion but EVERYONE from getting condoms - 
Being the head of the institution that supports these policies, both financially and rhetorically and somehow being completely and utterly removed from any responsibility in these matters -
I GUESS I JUST HATE RELIGION THOUGH. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-05-2005 at 12:25 AM.
Religion isn't an instruction manual on how to live life; it's a guide towards leading a morally just life. None of it should really be taken as completely undisputable, but just as suggestions.
The church's position on premarital sex could be taken a number of ways. I take it as "don't go into random, meaningless sex." Someone else could take it as "don't have sex unless you're married." Someone else could take it as "don't have sex, period."
There is no such thing as someone who follows their religion completely and totally, save for the prominent figureheads of said religion (who likely only does it so much as his public face requires). Even the fundamental religious nutcases who try to force their religions on others break the golden rule of treating people as you would like to be treated.
I think what a lot of people are seeing here is Zaza flipping out towards religion in general. It spawns a lot from Zaza's natural tenacity and natural leaning towards liberalism, which tends to spawn an anti-religious outlook. What I think Zaza is getting at is that he views the pope's policy on sex as being a little screwy.
I think the problem with the preaching towards Africa is that the Africans haven't had too much experience with said religions. They think that it's straight-up "follow or die," when I've just said it's not. If the tables were turned and voodoo was being introduced to America, there'd be a lot of people following its rites to the letter.
It's the gray area and interpretation that's necessary for religion to be effective, and it's that gray area that's not understood in Africa.
Personally, though, I think that Africa is doomed and beyond civilization, so let them work out their own problems.
There is no religious controversy or lack of religious experience here. It's just a church causing deaths for their belief - and the even more horrible thing is that many of these deaths are people who didn't even believe the same thing as them, as they don't restrict themselves to just yelling at the choir how much God will smite you if you dare to wrap up.
It's a horrible, backwards and reprhensible policy, and it doesn't support me at all that the only way people have of defending it is to ignore it while screaming at the top of their lungs and - ironically - demonizing the opposition in much the same way as the good old priests in Africa. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-05-2005 at 12:39 AM.
Uh...you know, preaching is just really saying stuff, not ordering people to do stuff. Saying that the church is responsible for deaths in Africa by preaching abstinence is the same as saying that I'm responsible for Blindy's death because I think shooting myself in the head is cool.
