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The logic train ran off the tracks when Maradon! said:
Isn't it a little ignorant to celebrate someone's death simply because of their religion?
Can I not mourn him because of all the deaths he helped cause in Africa? Or is that ignorant too?
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We were all impressed when Zaza wrote:
Can I not mourn him because of all the deaths he helped cause in Africa? Or is that ignorant too?
who are you asking permission from?
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Zaza impressed everyone with:
Can I not mourn him because of all the deaths he helped cause in Africa? Or is that ignorant too?
I must've missed this. Link of some sort, please?
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Vorbis had this to say about Duck Tales:
I must've missed this. Link of some sort, please?
Denouncing birth control/condoms + AIDS = bad
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x--ZazaO-('-'Q) :
Can I not mourn him because of all the deaths he helped cause in Africa? Or is that ignorant too?
Rabid anti-catholicism seems to be a euro pastime.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Tatsukaze who doth quote:
Denouncing birth control/condoms + AIDS = bad
Ah, so if I disagree with birth control, I'm responsible for killing people in africa.
At least try to act like you're not being blindly hateful.
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A sleep deprived Vorbis stammered:
I must've missed this. Link of some sort, please?
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0405334.htm
Maradon: Are you saying it's "rabid" to be against needless deaths caused by stupid religious doctrine? 
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Check out the big brain on Maradon!!
Ah, so if I disagree with birth control, I'm responsible for killing people in africa.At least try to act like you're not being blindly hateful.
You're very very dumb sometimes, do you know that?
The Catholic Church actively fights against measures that use condoms, etc, to prevent the spread of AIDS.
They're basically using their political and economical power to shoot down life-saving measures because of their religious doctrines. How the hell is that not being responsible for deaths? Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 04:34 PM.
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Peanut butter ass Shaq Zaza booooze lime pole over bench lick:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0405334.htmMaradon: Are you saying it's "rabid" to be against needless deaths caused by stupid religious doctrine?
Your line of reasoning in attributing these deaths to the pope is nothing short of idiotic.
If these people were following catholic doctrine, they wouldn't be having sex outside of marriage either. By your very same logic you could also attribute the pope with PREVENTING the spread of aids by being an opponent of premarital sex.
I don't even fucking AGREE with the pope and I'm repulsed by the level of blind and irrational animosity this suggests. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 04:38 PM.
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Zazaing:
You're very very dumb sometimes, do you know that?The Catholic Church actively fights against measures that use condoms, etc, to prevent the spread of AIDS.
Uh, yeah, and they also actively fight premarital sex to prevent the spread of aids.
But no, let's follow YOU'RE reasoning! The pope was really hitler in disguise who wanted all the africans to die. I'm sure that's it, makes tons of sense.
Talk about grasping at straws! We bash scientologists for starting with a preconcieved notion and using junk science to try and prove it, but here you are with a preconcieved hatred for catholicism and using junk logic to try and justify it. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 04:39 PM.
"The pope did not mention the use of condoms in AIDS prevention... Some Vatican officialshave opposed anti-AIDS campaigns that rely on condom promotion, saying it encourages sexual promiscuity and does not provide real protection against the disease."
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Zaza got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0405334.htmMaradon: Are you saying it's "rabid" to be against needless deaths caused by stupid religious doctrine?
It may just be the bias from the news source ( 
), but I'm seeing a disconnect between the Pope not mentioning condoms in AIDS prevention (while urging governments and civil authorities to provide "clear and proper information" about the spread and provention of AIDS) and the Pope being thusly complicit in thousands of AIDS related deaths.
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Vorbis stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
It may just be the bias from the news source (), but I'm seeing a disconnect between the Pope not mentioning condoms in AIDS prevention (while urging governments and civil authorities to provide "clear and proper information" about the spread and provention of AIDS) and the Pope being thusly complicit in thousands of AIDS related deaths.
It's the first article I grabbed off google. There is a very active policy in Africa of fighting any AIDS prevention that isn't through abstinence, let me try to grab a better source.
And Maradon, okay then, if you think the fact that pushing a death sentence on people in the name of religion is cool, then that's you. If you also honestly think that AIDS reduction through abstinence works, then I have something for you:
HahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 04:47 PM.
Of course, if you were starting with a preconcieved hatred of catholicism, I could see how that "stop having sex" bit might slip your mind as you dissect the idea bit by bit until you can portray it as something suitably demonic.
As far as the African situation goes, you cannot look at one side and ignore the other. They preached against using condoms, but preached for abstinence. If you're going to say "haha, they're gonna ignore the abstinence" preaching then you cannot say that they will definitely listen to the condom preaching. Furthermore, its not like the Catholic Church had much of an influence in most of these areas either nor were contraceptives widely used. To put the blame solely on the Catholic Church or the Pope is silly.
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Maradon! obviously shouldn't have said:
Even if you want to want to jump out of logic land and equate opposing birth control to causing deaths, the vatican's stance on the issue ISN'T to simply stop using birth control, it's to stop using birth control AND stop having sex.Of course, if you were starting with a preconcieved hatred of catholicism, I could see how that "stop having sex" bit might slip your mind as you dissect the idea bit by bit until you can portray it as something suitably demonic.
Did you miss the memo where it said that trying to stop a disease by repressing a highly natural desire isn't a very successful tactic?
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Talonus probably says this to all the girls:
Like the Church or hate it, John Paul II was the most influential person in the world. He was a good man, devoted to the cause of helping people. To say otherwise shows just shows blind hatred of the Church and no sense of history. He brought about a number of very positive changes to the Church that has helped in the modernization process, moreso than nearly any other Pope in history. There is still a long ways to go, but the path has been laid. Like him or hate him, he deserves some measure of respect.As far as the African situation goes, you cannot look at one side and ignore the other. They preached against using condoms, but preached for abstinence. If you're going to say "haha, they're gonna ignore the abstinence" preaching then you cannot say that they will definitely listen to the condom preaching. Furthermore, its not like the Catholic Church had much of an influence in most of these areas either nor were contraceptives widely used. To put the blame solely on the Catholic Church or the Pope is silly.
I'm not putting any blame solely on the catholic church or the Pope. I am simply not mourning the Pope, because out of willful ignorance he aided a policy that makes people die in AIDS. What's so hard about that?
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Zazaing:
And Maradon, okay then, if you think the fact that pushing a death sentence on people in the name of religion is cool, then that's you. If you also honestly think that AIDS reduction through abstinence works, then I have something for you:HahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I don't and I don't. Again, nice try. You should try hanging out with some scientologists some time, you could swap notes on how to try and warp reality to line up with your ideas.
Your line of reasoning in equating opposition to birth control as a "death sentence" is nothing short of pure idiocy. I repeat this, because you've done nothing but repeat your own claim as if rewording the idea could somehow make it true.
You're no better than the people who want to indiscriminatley kill muslims.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Zaza who doth quote:
I'm not putting any blame solely on the catholic church or the Pope. I am simply not mourning the Pope, because out of willful ignorance he aided a policy that makes people die in AIDS. What's so hard about that?
So you're not blaming the pope for making people die, but you're not mourning the pope because you blame him for making people die.
Makes perfect sense to me!
The catholic church in part defines itself against others through its extremely draconian code in regards to sexuality and this also strongly defines the type of person commonly drawn towards it, it's somewhat silly to think that such a group could, in a very short time measured by it's overall history, get to a point where it could openly advocate anything but abstinence or even discuss sexuality. Mod fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 04:54 PM.
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Check out the big brain on Zaza!
I'm not putting any blame solely on the catholic church or the Pope. I am simply not mourning the Pope, because out of willful ignorance he aided a policy that makes people die in AIDS. What's so hard about that?
That is no problem. It sounded as if you were placing the blame purely on the Church and the Pope. To do so is simply... stupid. I cannot think of any better way to put it. It is your choice in the matter.
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A sleep deprived Maradon! stammered:
So you're not blaming the pope for making people die, but you're not mourning the pope because you blame him for making people die.Makes perfect sense to me!
not to be a grammer whore or anything, but you realy should start reading the posts you wish to respond to twice before actully posting your responce.
in the english language, certain words can change the meaning of a sentence. comon words include "no," "isn't," "some," and "soley." In this case, the word used is "soley."
Though you seem pashonate about this, you seem to be ignoring any logic and spouting off reactions just to contradict zaza. You aren't listening to what he is saying and you aren't thinking out your responces as you say them.
if you would, in fact, read the posts you respond to, you would understand what he says. I will try to bold his quote so you can understand what he is saying.
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I'm not putting any blame solely on the catholic church or the Pope. I am simply not mourning the Pope, because out of willful ignorance he aided a policy that makes people die in AIDS. What's so hard about that?
please take a look at the conversation between talonus and zaza as an example of how to read and respond in a rational manner. diadem fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 05:01 PM.
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From the book of Maradon!, chapter 3, verse 16:
Ah, so if I disagree with birth control, I'm responsible for killing people in africa.At least try to act like you're not being blindly hateful.
Dude, I wasn't supporting that viewpoint, I was only explaining the connection Zaza made for Vorbis. gg
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Maradon! Model 2000 was programmed to say:
So you're not blaming the pope for making people die, but you're not mourning the pope because you blame him for making people die.Makes perfect sense to me!
Your reading skills are less than stellar. I'm not putting the whole blame for the AIDS situation or the AIDS deaths with him but he has his share of it.
Since you asked for a better source:
We can start with this which rather accurately points out why promoting prevention through abstinence doesn't work.
Golly gee, catholics opposed to condoms?
Essentially:
1) Prevention through condoms helps stop AIDS.
2) Prevention through abstinence has little, or at least a much smaller, effect.
3) The Catholic church openly attacks efforts in line with 1).
4) 
I'd try to find you some better sources on exactly what the Catholic church does in Africa, but I don't really know any great ones online.
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Mod had this to say about Cuba:
As far as popes go he wasn't that bad, especially the fact that he refrained from trying to promote his ailing religion through hatered of other churches, which is a proven way of bolstering a group's ranks, and instead worked to promote understanding between religious groups.The catholic church in part defines itself against others through its extremely draconian code in regards to sexuality and this also strongly defines the type of person commonly drawn towards it, it's somewhat silly to think that such a group could, in a very short time measured by it's overall history, get to a point where it could openly advocate anything but abstinence or even discuss sexuality.
Oh, I know. I just don't feel willful ignorance is any excuse.
The blame for AIDS deaths doesn't lie on the vatican any more than it lies on those who advocate birth control over abstainance. NEITHER system has been successful, NEITHER system has been allowed to operate unhindered, BOTH systems require signifigant cultural changes. The only reason advocating contraception is demonstrably more effective than advocating abstainance is because the society in question will not oppose the idea contraception as strongly. If the tables were turned and the africans were more apt to stop having sex entirely, would the contraception advocates then be responsible for killing people that failed to use condoms?
You're trying to say that advocating an idea makes you responsible for the those who do FAIL to subscribe to the idea you advocate.
At least I know why the euro crowd tries to portray America as "Jesusland" now. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 05:21 PM.
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Peanut butter ass Shaq Alidane booooze lime pole over bench lick:
What the fuck are you faggots doing in a flame thread.
Ironically, this is probably the most civilized argument I've had in a while.
Edit: Alidane's Noxhil2 fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 05:26 PM.
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Maradon! painfully thought these words up:
You don't need to tell me that catholics oppose the use of condoms, and you should try reading your own posts.The blame for AIDS deaths doesn't lie on the vatican any more than it lies on those who advocate birth control over abstainance. NEITHER system has been successful, NEITHER system has been allowed to operate unhindered, BOTH systems require signifigant cultural changes. The only reason advocating contraception is demonstrably more effective than advocating abstainance is because the society in question will not oppose the idea contraception as strongly.
You're trying to say that advocating an idea makes you responsible for the those who do FAIL to subscribe to the idea you advocate.
At least I know why the euro crowd tries to portray America as "Jesusland" now.
Right then, so it's perfectly okay to push for an idea that doesn't work even if its alternative does? So if I started lobbying to replace cancer treatment with crystal healing that'd be totally fine and any deaths from it wouldn't be on my hands at all?
You also seem rather confused as one second you're saying that abstinence is a working tactic, the next it isn't. Is it or isn't it?
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Maradon! screamed this from the crapper:
Your line of reasoning in equating opposition to birth control as a "death sentence" is nothing short of pure idiocy. I repeat this, because you've done nothing but repeat your own claim as if rewording the idea could somehow make it true.
Actually, it's not just opposition to birth control. Vatican policy in Africa is to take an active stance in preventing the distribution of condoms by either lying about their effectiveness or simply stopping other aid groups from distributing them, as detailed here.
In the light of the severity of the worldwide AIDS pandemic, this policy is tantamount to a death sentence for many Africans, especially to those who aren't Catholic but are nonetheless affected by this policy. Why should they be forced to choose between observing Catholic beliefs and practices(abstinence) or risk contracting HIV when there exists a viable alternative? When you consider the Vatican's alternative, and its low success rate, it is a terrible abuse of power to force people to adhere to a Catholic policy or risk contracting HIV, regardless of their own religious convictions.
To the OP, I'll be sad to the see JPII go. He was the driving force for bringing the RCC into the twentieth century, and his fights against communism and western capitalism are quite laudable, even if he was expectedly conservative in his treatment of women and homosexuals and did not go to any great lengths to solve the molestation problem. In all, he was quite a progressive and tolerant pope. Sadly, most of his likely successors are looking to be far less progressive than him, which is anything but good.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
