And Alek, no, abstinence simply doesn't work. There's heaps of evidence to support this point. You can't repress the urge to have sex with any greater success.
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In a disastrous attempt to be funny and clever, Alek wrote:
I'm under the impression that both tactics work almost equally well if implemented correctly. Lets say persons A and B don't have AIDS. A decides to be a good Catholic and abstains from sex, unless some freak accident happens like he gets a blood transfusion with infected AIDS then abstinence will work to prevent AIDS. B decides he doesn't care too much for the Church so grabs some condoms and after being properly instructed in their use, gets busy. There is a near 100% chance of him not getting AIDS, right? So what's wrong with advocating abstinence? I don't see it contributing to the spread of AIDS, what am I not seeing?
You're not seeing that people don't adhere to abstinence because it's a pretty primal, driving human desire. It's possible, but most can't do it.
The vast majority of people can, however, put on a condom. It's like fighting bypass operations and justifying it by supporting vegetarianism.
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Alek had this to say about Captain Planet:
I'm under the impression that both tactics work almost equally well if implemented correctly. Lets say persons A and B don't have AIDS. A decides to be a good Catholic and abstains from sex, unless some freak accident happens like he gets a blood transfusion with infected AIDS then abstinence will work to prevent AIDS. B decides he doesn't care too much for the Church so grabs some condoms and after being properly instructed in their use, gets busy. There is a near 100% chance of him not getting AIDS, right? So what's wrong with advocating abstinence? I don't see it contributing to the spread of AIDS, what am I not seeing?
Deprives people of sex, more people will use condoms when told than will abstain from sex when told.
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Alek screamed this from the crapper:
I'm under the impression that both tactics work almost equally well if implemented correctly. Lets say persons A and B don't have AIDS. A decides to be a good Catholic and abstains from sex, unless some freak accident happens like he gets a blood transfusion with infected AIDS then abstinence will work to prevent AIDS. B decides he doesn't care too much for the Church so grabs some condoms and after being properly instructed in their use, gets busy. There is a near 100% chance of him not getting AIDS, right? So what's wrong with advocating abstinence? I don't see it contributing to the spread of AIDS, what am I not seeing?
Abstinence works, certainly. It requires, however, a massive amount of self control, and, simply put, a good bunch of us don't have that, or, don't want to abstain. But that's not the issue. What is the matter of contention is that the RCC actively attempts to undermine the efforts of aid groups offering condoms by A) lying about condom effectiveness, and B) stopping condom distribution by other aid groups in areas in which they are both active.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
Which is why Maradon rabidly arguing against Zaza has earned this thread a five!
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Snoota thought about the meaning of life:
Zaza's argument against the Pope makes the same leaps in logic and the same straw grasping that Maradon's argument against Michael Shiavwhatever does.Which is why Maradon rabidly arguing against Zaza has earned this thread a five!
I'd take your word for it, but I'm highly curious to see what your reasoning here is, as it quite simply seems pulled out of your ass.
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Check out the big brain on Zaza!
I'd take your word for it, but I'm highly curious to see what your reasoning here is, as it quite simply seems pulled out of your ass.
I'LL SHOW YOU "PULLED OUT OF MY ASS"!!
throws poo at Zaza
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Snoota had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
I'LL SHOW YOU "PULLED OUT OF MY ASS"!!throws poo at Zaza
Right then, just trollin' along. That's okay, I didn't expect anything more from you. 
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Zaza had this to say about Knight Rider:
Right then, just trollin' along. That's okay, I didn't expect anything more from you.
Ah well, what did you expect? The last time Snoot contributed something essential to a serious debate (this does not include sitting at the sideline, throwing verbal poop at the debaters) was... uh... never?
Tarquinn fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 06:17 PM.
Edit: Gawd I hate stupid typos.
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Zaza had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Right then, just trollin' along. That's okay, I didn't expect anything more from you.
I only read your first few posts, which were pretty much just, "The Pope doesn't like condoms and people die from AIDS because of unprotected sex!! He spreads AIDS!!!"
If you said anything else across the last two pages, I didn't bother to read the rest of the thread. I just felt it was amusing that Maradon was saying the same things about your argument that he was pissed people were saying about his, when both arguments made many of the same leaps(when you first presented yours, which was as far as I bothered to read) and made just about as much sense.
Since I don't really care about the Pope nor people in Africa butt fucking each other, I didn't bother to read the rest and just stopped long enough to mock Maradon.
p.s. this entire thing touches on something that always annoyed the hell out of me. Why is it in such bad taste to talk badly about people who just recently died? I mean, sure, there's no reason to go to the funeral and shout, 'HAHA! GLAD YOU'RE DEAD YOU BASTARD!!!!' but everytime someone famous dies it's all, "Oh, booo hooo <cry cry cry> he was such a great man <sniff> <cry cry cry>" when most of the people doing the crying couldn't name one thing he did in his life.(Not saying the Pope directly, as he wasn't so bad as far as Pope's go, and may have been the best yet. Which itself isn't exactly saying much.)
I want people to still consider me an asshole after I die.
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A sleep deprived Tarquinn stammered:
Ah well, what did you expect? The last time Snoot contributed something essential to a serious debate (this does not include sitting at the sideline, throwing verbal poop at the debators) was... uh... never?
Flinging poop at people is always essential.
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Snoota had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
I only read your first few posts, which were pretty much just, "The Pope doesn't like condoms and people die from AIDS because of unprotected sex!! He spreads AIDS!!!"If you said anything else across the last two pages, I didn't bother to read the rest of the thread. I just felt it was amusing that Maradon was saying the same things about your argument that he was pissed people were saying about his, when both arguments made many of the same leaps(when you first presented yours, which was as far as I bothered to read) and made just about as much sense.
Since I don't really care about the Pope nor people in Africa butt fucking each other, I didn't bother to read the rest and just stopped long enough to mock Maradon.
p.s. this entire thing touches on something that always annoyed the hell out of me. Why is it in such bad taste to talk badly about people who just recently died? I mean, sure, there's no reason to go to the funeral and shout, 'HAHA! GLAD YOU'RE DEAD YOU BASTARD!!!!' but everytime someone famous dies it's all, "Oh, booo hooo <cry cry cry> he was such a great man <sniff> <cry cry cry>" when most of the people doing the crying couldn't name one thing he did in his life.(Not saying the Pope directly, as he wasn't so bad as far as Pope's go, and may have been the best yet. Which itself isn't exactly saying much.)
I want people to still consider me an asshole after I die.
So, basically, you babbled out that I was making uninformed statements on a topic that you know absolutely nothing about.
Go you.
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Zaza said:
So, basically, you babbled out that I was making uninformed statements on a topic that you know absolutely nothing about.Go you.
I hurt Zaza's feelings when I was really just making fun of Maradon.
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Check out the big brain on Snoota!
I hurt Zaza's feelings when I was really just making fun of Maradon.
No, I just appreciate the irony that in order to make fun of Maradon, you did the exact same thing that you made fun of him for doing.
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Snoota had this to say about Duck Tales:
Can't we at least agree to make fun of Maradon?
That's a cause I can rally behind.
The pope is dead.
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Snoota obviously shouldn't have said:p.s. this entire thing touches on something that always annoyed the hell out of me. Why is it in such bad taste to talk badly about people who just recently died? I mean, sure, there's no reason to go to the funeral and shout, 'HAHA! GLAD YOU'RE DEAD YOU BASTARD!!!!' but everytime someone famous dies it's all, "Oh, booo hooo <cry cry cry> he was such a great man <sniff> <cry cry cry>" when most of the people doing the crying couldn't name one thing he did in his life.(Not saying the Pope directly, as he wasn't so bad as far as Pope's go, and may have been the best yet. Which itself isn't exactly saying much.)
I want people to still consider me an asshole after I die.
I always thought that it was an issue of respect. Not everyone is bawly hysterical when a celebrity dies, but it's just a kind of respectful acknowledgement.
As for the Pope, I'm not saying I agree with everything the guy did and supported, and I'm not exactly bawling over him, but he was an influential individual (whether one supports his Anti-Contraception stance or not). He did a lot of good things in modernizing the Catholic Church and bringing it closer to the other religions of the world. He was probably the most influential individual on the planet, so it's gonna be a big fat hairy DUH when people mourn him.
By the way, blaming Catholocism for the spread of AIDS in Africa, because they're "Actively fighting contraception" is about like blaming the cops for the rampant drug problems because they're actively fighting drug rings.
Edited cuz I r speling geneeus Lesage fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 08:57 PM.
Still always, Not-Dude.
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By the way, blaming Catholocism for the spread of AIDS in Africa, because they're "Actively fighting contraception" is about like blaming the cops for the rampant drug problems because they're actively fighting drug rings.
This is quite possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen in my twenty-two years of life. Are you saying that groups that distribute condoms distribute AIDS? Because that's what your analogy boils down to. 
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Nobody really understood why nem-x wrote:
What's the worst analogy you have seen in the first three years of your life?
Probably when my imaginative friend said "If I had a hat, it'd be like nem-x had a pink elephant".
It just doesn't make sense. :/
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Zaza had this to say about the Spice Girls:
This is quite possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen in my twenty-two years of life. Are you saying that groups that distribute condoms distribute AIDS? Because that's what your analogy boils down to.
No, I'm saying that Catholocism has about the same influence on the people getting AIDS as the cops do on the Drug trade....about...zero.
Still always, Not-Dude.
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Lesage said this about your mom:
No, I'm saying that Catholocism has about the same influence on the people getting AIDS as the cops do on the Drug trade....about...zero.
So you're saying that contraception programs don't work then?
Or alternatively, you could be saying that every Roman Catholic in Africa ignore their priests when said priests tell them that contraception is sinful, and that despite all these events of priests trying to stop distribution of condoms they have never been successful.
There is also the possibility that you're saying their preaching about abstinence works just as well as contraception.
If I'm missing any option, let me know. Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 09:06 PM.
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There was much rejoicing when nem-x said this:
tcha?
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Zaza wrote this stupid crap:
So you're saying that contraception programs don't work then?Or alternatively, you could be saying that every Roman Catholic in Africa ignore their priests when said priests tell them that contraception is sinful.
Either seems kinda silly.
I COULD be saying that Joe knows the Pope, and I think that you'd take it in a negative manner.
ANYWAYS, I'm saying that the contraception programs only work if the people go to them and GET the contraceptives.
As is stated here
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Thus, there is a large market of contraceptive users in Africa that family planning programs barely touch. Such people will not be reached through existing government family planning programs. Adolescents, especially teenage girls who are at high risk of both pregnancy and HIV infection, probably could be reached with both advice and condom distribution through groups that are themselves organized and managed by adolescents. But many parents and churches, and most governments, are opposed to this approach. The answer may be to subsidize and assist the market sector in providing unquestioning and anonymous service, but this kind of service cannot be an effective vehicle for AIDS education.
So, blaming the Catholic Church for an issue that is more OUTSIDE of the church than it is inside the church is kinda silly.
Still always, Not-Dude.
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Lesage thought about the meaning of life:
No, I'm saying that Catholocism has about the same influence on the people getting AIDS as the cops do on the Drug trade....about...zero.
I disagree, while the epidemic would still be there even if the church went all-out pro-contraception, I do think that with the influence they weld them taking an at least neutral stance would save at least some people.
I would also like to point out the following from your article:
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But many parents and churches, and most governments, are opposed to this approach. The answer may be to subsidize and assist the market sector in providing unquestioning and anonymous service, but this kind of service cannot be an effective vehicle for AIDS education.
How many of those churches that are Roman Catholic do you think would change their opposition if the Vatican did? Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 09:15 PM.
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Zaza had this to say about the Spice Girls:
That's horrible logic. The fact that they don't carry the main blame doesn't make them blameless. They're still doing damage.I would also like to point out the following from your article:
How many of those churches that are Roman Catholic do you think would change their opposition if the Vatican did?
They're NOT blameless. But you're placing a considerable amount of blame on the Church that can be placed in other sources. In fact I said that it was MORE outside of the Church, not COMPLETELY.
Lesage fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 09:21 PM.
Anyways, I'm tired of arguing about something that doesn't belong in this thread. Continue if you wish, but I'm done.
Still always, Not-Dude.
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Snoota got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
p.s. this entire thing touches on something that always annoyed the hell out of me. Why is it in such bad taste to talk badly about people who just recently died? I mean, sure, there's no reason to go to the funeral and shout, 'HAHA! GLAD YOU'RE DEAD YOU BASTARD!!!!' but everytime someone famous dies it's all, "Oh, booo hooo <cry cry cry> he was such a great man <sniff> <cry cry cry>" when most of the people doing the crying couldn't name one thing he did in his life.(Not saying the Pope directly, as he wasn't so bad as far as Pope's go, and may have been the best yet. Which itself isn't exactly saying much.)
It's a general social standard that got mangled a bit when social interaction started spanning continents instead of 600 person towns, it makes sense to not talk bady about someone who has recently died when there is a high likelyhood a friend of family member of the deceased is listening first- or second hand since it would be the absolute worst moment to hit them over the head with their relatives shortcomings.
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Lesage was naked while typing this:
They're NOT blameless. But you're placing a considerable amount of blame on the Church that can be place in other sources. In fact I said that it was MORE outside of the Church, not COMPLETELY.
I am?
Then would you mind quoting the post and text where I did so? I'm sure it should be easy to find, just two pages of thread to look through.
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The Catholic Church actively fights against measures that use condoms, etc, to prevent the spread of AIDS.
I think that's a direct quote no? Sounds like a CONSIDERABLE amount of blame being placed on the Catholic Church, and a convenient ignoring that there are other institutions that do the VERY same thing. Lesage fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 09:26 PM.
Still always, Not-Dude.
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Zaza's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
How many of those churches that are Roman Catholic do you think would change their opposition if the Vatican did?
I doubt it would be that many, a lot of protestant churches tend to look down on 'papists' and don't feel compelled to imitate their policies.
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Mod had this to say about Duck Tales:
I doubt it would be that many, a lot of protestant churches tend to look down on 'papists' and don't feel compelled to imitate their policies.
Protestants aren't Roman Catholics though, are they?
Lesage:
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But you're placing a considerable amount of blame on the Church that can be placed in other sources
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But you're placing a considerable amount of blame on the Church that can be placed in other sources
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But you're placing a considerable amount of blame on the Church that can be placed in other sources
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I think that's a direct quote no? Sounds like a CONSIDERABLE amount of blame being placed on the Catholic Church, and a convenient ignoring that there are other institutions that do the VERY same thing.
You might have the faintest shred of a point if this entire topic wasn't about why I don't mourn the Pope, who happens to be Catholic. And if it weren't for the fact that apparently stating the truth is "placing considerable blame". Maybe next you will attack anyone that opposes car thefts because they are placing considerable blame on car thieves for all thefts in the entire country? Zaza fucked around with this message on 04-02-2005 at 09:29 PM.
Still always, Not-Dude.
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Lesage had this to say about Robocop:
See my EDITED post, darling, I've just proven my point.
I saw your edited post, sweetie, see mine.
Just so long as you don't associate the ideas of one person or a few people with the entire population.
I'm done....was earlier, but was then called out again, and I just HAD to have another word.
Still always, Not-Dude.
