quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about Knight Rider:
None of the examples given or other examples you might be able to think of would make it okay in your book?
For me there's no good reason that would justify betraying someone you care about.
Without trust there is no relationship for me.
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Veruca Salt was all like:
IMO, if they cheated on me, then they obviously don't really want to be with me all that much anyway. So they won't be.
So you agree that cheating indicates other problems in the relationship. Do you advocate working out these problems, or is that something that you just can't work out?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Zaza Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Disapprove. It'd only create people living together without being married.
You disapprove of that, then? Why or why not?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about (_|_):
If you love someone, why do you need other people? Do you think the person you're with should be your perfect match, the compliment to your personality? Or do you think that's impossible and we should all do the best we can with what we get? Settle, in other words.
Having all-you-can-eat of your favorite food dosen't mean you shouldn't sample the buffet, as it were 
.
Yes, the person you love might be perfect for you, but occasionally you might want a change, or might see someone who turns you on... if it's discussed and agreed upon, I see no reason for a little side fun. Like a threesome with one person missing .
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about Captain Planet:
You disapprove of that, then? Why or why not?
For the above reason. It solves absolutely nothimg.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Lyinar Ka`Bael said:
So you agree that cheating indicates other problems in the relationship. Do you advocate working out these problems, or is that something that you just can't work out?
I advocate working out said problems before cheating has taken place. Communication = good. But if they can't just be upfront and tell me what's wrong instead of going for some other person, then forget it.
quote:
So quoth Crezia:
It can be a mistake. But not "An honest mistake." If you well and truly
wanted to remain faithful to him/her and you cheated, you were either A) drunk or B) at that moment, able to justify your actions in some way. If A -- you're allowed a tiny bit of leeway if you've never gotten drunk before, as you're clueless, which makes you stupid and do stupid things. If B -- if you can justify it once, what stops you from doing it again? Other than guilt, and guilt is not a healthy thing in a relationship.
You chose to drink, though, with the full knowledge that people can do stupid things while drunk. Would it be the responsibility of the person to choose to get drunk in a safe setting, ie. at home, or would they still have leeway if they got drunk and cheatet at say, a bachelor party with strippers, or a college frat party?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Zaza had this to say about Duck Tales:
Side node - Interesting thread, Lyinar. I've missed serious, non-inflammatory discussions like this.
Me too. I remember when we used to do this all the time. I loved the religion threads we had.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
ACES! Another post by Lyinar Ka`Bael:
Be nice, Giantt. No flames.What makes you agree with him? Anything you disagree with?
If that was a flame, it was only towards myself
I agree with him because I believe that under normal circumstances, cheating equals termination of the relationship. The end.
However, no flexibility gets you nowhere, and extreme situations require extreme measures. Thus, his example fit quite well. [ 01-20-2003: Message edited by: »Giantt« ]
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
You chose to drink, though, with the full knowledge that people can do stupid things while drunk. Would it be the responsibility of the person to choose to get drunk in a safe setting, ie. at home, or would they still have leeway if they got drunk and cheatet at say, a bachelor party with strippers, or a college frat party?
Honestly, I shouldn't have added that. It was more of a "naive-clueless" claus, but innocence isn't an excuse for shit.
I hate alcohol, period, so, with ME, alcohol wouldn't be an excuse. The fact it could be an excuse at all makes it just as harmful as anything.
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael's account was hax0red to write:
If you love someone, why do you need other people? Do you think the person you're with should be your perfect match, the compliment to your personality? Or do you think that's impossible and we should all do the best we can with what we get? Settle, in other words.
You may not NEED other people, but what if you love more than one person? Do you think it's possible to love more than one person? If there are three people, and they all love eachother, why not be happy? Should one of the people who is loved and loves be left out to permit a monogamous relationship?
No, Really. Bite me.
Cheating is something I will not stand for.
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
So you agree that cheating indicates other problems in the relationship. Do you advocate working out these problems, or is that something that you just can't work out?
I'd say by the time someone in a relationship cheats on their partner, the time to "work it out" is long gone.
It's a pretty severe thing to do, if the obvious relationship troubles couldn't have been worked out before hand, there's little hope for it now.
Kinda like trying to defuse a bomb after it has gone off. [ 01-20-2003: Message edited by: Reynar ]
Just kidding lying is bad.
quote:
Crezia had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Neither. They're being smart. Staying in a relationship that cannot be "fixed" post-cheating is sitting in a flaming traincar heading for a brick wall. One day, it's going to crash and it'll hurt. Bail out now.
I can't remember their official name now, but there is an organization out there that advocates forgiveness and rebuilding in marriages where cheating occurred. They think that all marriages or relationships can be saved after cheating and think badly of anyone that doesn't try to save it.
Agree or disagree?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Everyone wondered WTF when Zaza wrote:
It's not their fault that they're being beaten. It is their fault that they allow it to continue.Tiny distinction, but a distinction nevertheless.
agreed, you're not the one that pulled the trigger, you're the dumbfuck that took a stroll downrange and sat in front of a target.
No, Really. Bite me.
quote:
Zaza was listening to Cher while typing:
It's not their fault that they're being beaten. It is their fault that they allow it to continue.Tiny distinction, but a distinction nevertheless.
But you do agree that they hold some of the blame.
I've seen many cases of this brought up and the person being abused was never held at fault. You believe they should be at least in part?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
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Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about the Spice Girls:
I can't remember their official name now, but there is an organization out there that advocates forgiveness and rebuilding in marriages where cheating occurred. They think that all marriages or relationships can be saved after cheating and think badly of anyone that doesn't try to save it.Agree or disagree?
just because they're organized doesn't mean they're right or bright, for example: PETA and the RIAA.
No, Really. Bite me.
quote:
Nicole stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Having all-you-can-eat of your favorite food dosen't mean you shouldn't sample the buffet, as it were.
Yes, the person you love might be perfect for you, but occasionally you might want a change, or might see someone who turns you on... if it's discussed and agreed upon, I see no reason for a little side fun. Like a threesome with one person missing
You think it's impossible then to be completely devoted to just a single person, and have everything you need in that one person? You think everyone will eventually want to sample the buffet?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Zaza had this to say about Optimus Prime:
For the above reason. It solves absolutely nothimg.
Sorry, I meant living together instead of getting married. Do you think getting married is preferable?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Check out the big brain on Lyinar Ka`Bael!
But you do agree that they hold some of the blame.I've seen many cases of this brought up and the person being abused was never held at fault. You believe they should be at least in part?
No. They shouldn't be held at any fault, because staying in an abusive relationship is creating your own punishment.
However, if you stay with a S.O. that abuses not only yourself, but your children as well - then you should be held at fault, IMO.
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
You think it's impossible then to be completely devoted to just a single person, and have everything you need in that one person? You think everyone will eventually want to sample the buffet?
just as you cite a case where two people are so madly in love that they could never want for anyone else, she cites a case that is slightly more common, the one where two people love one another, but there is still room for lust for other people.
No, Really. Bite me.
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about Cuba:
I can't remember their official name now, but there is an organization out there that advocates forgiveness and rebuilding in marriages where cheating occurred. They think that all marriages or relationships can be saved after cheating and think badly of anyone that doesn't try to save it.Agree or disagree?
Disagree. Not all marriages and relationships can be saved, as not all relationships and marriages should never have happened. Said relationships end in one form or another or are hollow, bitter things that inspire things like cheating, anyway.
Post-cheating relationships CAN be saved, but not all of them. Like I said, there might be so many problems that LEAD to the cheating that resolving the can of worms the infidelity caused is unbearably painful, difficult, or just impossible for the parties involved.
But hey, if a group thinks they've come up with an end-all cure-all for cheating-based relationship strife, more power to 'em. I just won't be calling them up.
quote:
Veruca Salt had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
I advocate working out said problems before cheating has taken place. Communication = good. But if they can't just be upfront and tell me what's wrong instead of going for some other person, then forget it.
So you value communication and honesty the most in a relationship? And do you think all cheating could be prevented by this, or will there still be times communication won't fix it?
Do you believe there are some things in a relationship you absolutely cannot discuss with your SO?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
»Giantt« had this to say about Optimus Prime:
If that was a flame, it was only towards myselfI agree with him because I believe that under normal circumstances, cheating equals termination of the relationship. The end.
However, no flexibility gets you nowhere, and extreme situations require extreme measures. Thus, his example fit quite well.
How would you apply outlook to your own life? What would be okay with you, and what would be unacceptable?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Crezia had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Honestly, I shouldn't have added that. It was more of a "naive-clueless" claus, but innocence isn't an excuse for shit.I hate alcohol, period, so, with ME, alcohol wouldn't be an excuse. The fact it could be an excuse at all makes it just as harmful as anything.
Do you think more kindly upon someone that just comes out and says "I fucked up" rather than trying to excuse it, then?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Do you think more kindly upon someone that just comes out and says "I fucked up" rather than trying to excuse it, then?
I do give them more respect for being honest.
But, even in such a situation, personally? I might not break up with the person, but it would hurt so very much. I don't know if the relationship or I would be the same, afterwords, thouhg I can't say for sure.
( And I damn well better not ever be able to, Batty. ;D 
)
quote:
The Burger had this to say about (_|_):
You may not NEED other people, but what if you love more than one person? Do you think it's possible to love more than one person? If there are three people, and they all love eachother, why not be happy? Should one of the people who is loved and loves be left out to permit a monogamous relationship?
*laughs* I wondered when someoen would start questioning back 
I'm very biased on the subject. I love and am loved by one person. He is my perfect match, my compliment in every way.
So I can't help but think of a multiple person relationship as lacking. Now this is only my view, mind you, but I find it a case of people being hasty and impatient, and also going back into the not wanting to be alone and settling for second best situations.
I also find it a circumstance when the person in question isn't a whole person on their own. It's hard for me to conceive that when someone is a whole person alone, they must have many people around to love. So I find it a matter of incompleteness, and filling holes in your life.
I never settled for second best. I was alone, and I always wanted to be alone rather than being untrue to myself and those I was with. So, as I said before, I'm very biased. Having found the yin to my yang, it's very hard for me to imagine that anyone would want to settle for less than what is a perfect fit.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about dark elf butts:
So you value communication and honesty the most in a relationship? And do you think all cheating could be prevented by this, or will there still be times communication won't fix it?Do you believe there are some things in a relationship you absolutely cannot discuss with your SO?
Yes, I suppose I do. I don't think it could neccessarily prevent all cheating... when it's not right, it's not right, and I guess sometimes the other person can't fess up and has to run with their tail between their legs.
At first I coudldn't think of anything for that last one, BUT... yes. Past relationships. Seemed like all the last boy ever talked about was his stupid ex. All she ever did to him was dump him, and he was always going on to me about how it was such a terrible relationship, omfg he got burned SO BAD, etc....
quote:
ACES! Another post by The Burger:
just because they're organized doesn't mean they're right or bright, for example: PETA and the RIAA.
Oh, absolutely. I just wanted to get views on what people thought of that way of thinking? Are they being naive? Are they on to something?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Zaza said:
No. They shouldn't be held at any fault, because staying in an abusive relationship is creating your own punishment.However, if you stay with a S.O. that abuses not only yourself, but your children as well - then you should be held at fault, IMO.
So when they escape it, they were always in the right? It may have lasted years and years, but they hold no responsibility to remove themselves from the situation because the situation was punishment enough?
Do you think that gives the right message? When the abused is not held responsible for what they allowed because of what they experienced by their irresponsiblity, could that possibly foster an attitude of acceptance and lead to self-esteem problems in others in the same situation who see the treatment of the person and use them as an example?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
From the book of The Burger, chapter 3, verse 16:
just as you cite a case where two people are so madly in love that they could never want for anyone else, she cites a case that is slightly more common, the one where two people love one another, but there is still room for lust for other people.
Do you view love as an open thing? I imagine it would lie in how you view love.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael painfully thought these words up:
So when they escape it, they were always in the right? It may have lasted years and years, but they hold no responsibility to remove themselves from the situation because the situation was punishment enough?Do you think that gives the right message? When the abused is not held responsible for what they allowed because of what they experienced by their irresponsiblity, could that possibly foster an attitude of acceptance and lead to self-esteem problems in others in the same situation who see the treatment of the person and use them as an example?
No, I don't. They were responsible in part, but what I mean is that they should not be given the shadow of blame, because that's a thin line to walk. If we give them partial blame, it could mean abusers would get lower punishments or likewise. I've seen it happen, with the new rape laws here, that give partial blame unless the victim was A) Not drunk and B) Struggling. They've led to a serous decrease of average jail time served from sex crimes.
I don't think it would foster acceptance - if anything, the opposite would foster acceptance since then you're saying "Oh, we don't need to bother, she can leave any time she wants."
That's not to say that I would stop being friends with that person, but they'd have to understand that they committed a heinous wrong. Cheating represents the worst breach of trust I can imagine. Lying is pretty damned bad, but Cheating is Lying and Enjoying it (you're either enjoying it physically with sex or you're enjoying getting away with it, or enjoying some aspect of it, otherwise you wouldn't bloody do it). Being stabbed is bad enough, but being stabbed by someone who enjoyed doing it is far worse.
Cheating is never acceptable. People can either deal with a situation or not deal with it. Loveless marriage? You can either divorce, abandon the spouse (in the past, both sides had to accept a divorce, see Frank Lloyd Wright's life story, hence there were a lot of "abandoned marriages"...nowadays one person can pretty much muscle it through), or you can accept your situation and live by the rules of your situation. But there's always, always another option. Don't want to be married to person X anymore? Fine. Divorce them, leave them, whatever. Do not cheat. No matter how you feel about the new person, that is no balm or antidote to the fact you crossed the line. Even if the other person is cheating, two wrongs don't make a right.
And that's not to say that the person in question is completely evil. They're just in the wrong. They committed a violation, and have to live with the consequences. They may not see it as being in the wrong, and that's fine. If the person who cheated on you doesn't see cheating as a bad thing, chances are there were some underlying differences of morals and ethics in the relationship anyway. If the situation is, "Look I haven't been happy in the relationship for a long time, and I cheated on you because I want out, and I know that's wrong, and I'm sorry, but this is how I feel" then there's hope for friendship (eventually). That's happened to me in the past. Someone who was supposed to be my girlfriend wasn't as settled as I was with things and she was looking into other men. We drifted apart and it hurt me like hell, but at least she didn't try and wave a banner of righteousness about it and say I was in the wrong. And we continued to be close.
And see I can be vehement about things because I always, always leave the door open for communication. Ask Lyinar. There's no fight that can be had that I won't try to find a mutually amicable and peaceful solution for. If there's a problem, I'll try and talk through it til the cows come home. Lyinar and I have had some knock-down, drag-out, great bloody flaming rows about stupid little shit (last one was about why "The Two Towers" is called what it is). Usually it's just a mood we're in. But the argument burns white hot (people have thought we were breaking up), burns out (eventually we get tired of arguing), burns clean (we get it all out, and once it's burned out we generally find some resolution), and then it's done and we can immediately pick up just as happy as we were before (and I think happier, because we know that we can vent at one another without worrying about alienation). People think two folks yelling at one another is a bad thing...eh...in most cases it is, but if you can't vent frustrations and worries and ill moods and such to the person you're in love with and intend to be with forever, then you better have someone you can vent to, otherwise you'll internalize it and get all sorts of problems 30 years down the line or whatever when you have a heart attack. But that's off on a tangent...I can be vehement about my stance on cheating because I cover the bases that make cheating unnecessary.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about pies:
*laughs* I wondered when someoen would start questioning backI'm very biased on the subject. I love and am loved by one person. He is my perfect match, my compliment in every way.
So I can't help but think of a multiple person relationship as lacking. Now this is only my view, mind you, but I find it a case of people being hasty and impatient, and also going back into the not wanting to be alone and settling for second best situations.
I also find it a circumstance when the person in question isn't a whole person on their own. It's hard for me to conceive that when someone is a whole person alone, they must have many people around to love. So I find it a matter of incompleteness, and filling holes in your life.
I never settled for second best. I was alone, and I always wanted to be alone rather than being untrue to myself and those I was with. So, as I said before, I'm very biased. Having found the yin to my yang, it's very hard for me to imagine that anyone would want to settle for less than what is a perfect fit.
so you're stipulating that you can only love a single person in any capacity and that loving more dilutes it? What about your love fro children? Are you only ever going to have a single child? And are you saying that there is only one person that is perfect for you, and you would not settle for less? What if 'deth were to accidentally die tomorrow, in a horrible accident? Would you remain loveless for the rest of your life or would you go find someone else you could love 5 or 10 years down the road? Is there only one perfect match for each person?
No, Really. Bite me.
quote:
Crezia had this to say about Knight Rider:
If they can admit they fucked up, without any preamble of lies or trying to hide it, then they get a few bonus points. A relationship and such a person are likely to be ones that can be reconciled after infidelity, anyway. Not always. Like I said, it depends.But, even in such a situation, personally? I might not break up with the person, but it would hurt so very much. I don't know if the relationship or I would be the same, afterwords, thouhg I can't say for sure.
( And I damn well better not ever be able to, Batty. ;D
)
Do you think the person who would be honest from the get go would do it in the first place?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
A sleep deprived Veruca Salt stammered:
Yes, I suppose I do. I don't think it could neccessarily prevent all cheating... when it's not right, it's not right, and I guess sometimes the other person can't fess up and has to run with their tail between their legs.At first I coudldn't think of anything for that last one, BUT... yes. Past relationships. Seemed like all the last boy ever talked about was his stupid ex. All she ever did to him was dump him, and he was always going on to me about how it was such a terrible relationship, omfg he got burned SO BAD, etc....
Do you think when you find a subject you can't discuss, it might be a warning sign about the relationship? Or do you think it's just natural you can't always be completely honest with the one you're with?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Zaza thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
No, I don't. They were responsible in part, but what I mean is that they should not be given the shadow of blame, because that's a thin line to walk. If we give them partial blame, it could mean abusers would get lower punishments or likewise. I've seen it happen, with the new rape laws here, that give partial blame unless the victim was A) Not drunk and B) Struggling. They've led to a serous decrease of average jail time served from sex crimes.I don't think it would foster acceptance - if anything, the opposite would foster acceptance since then you're saying "Oh, we don't need to bother, she can leave any time she wants."
Let me throw up a situation. A woman is physically and mentally abused for many years. She finally gets away from it. Afterward, rather than questioning why she stayed and not holding her to some measure of responsibility in staying, society compliments her strength in enduring so much.
What if someone else sees that and reads it as "I should be as strong as that woman. I can take this" and never tries to get out of the situation?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
A sleep deprived Lyinar Ka`Bael stammered:
Do you think when you find a subject you can't discuss, it might be a warning sign about the relationship? Or do you think it's just natural you can't always be completely honest with the one you're with?
Well... IMO there is such a thing as moving too fast and some things might be better saved for a later date. Whatcha think?
