quote:
Delphi Aegis had this to say about Cuba:
Sorry for spewing out facts you don't feel like refuting.If you'd like to give any evidence against what I've said, please do so. Please point out large strains of anerobic bacteria that are major decomposers in modern (I.E. less then 2 billion years old) times.
Hmm, i think that was the first time i dismissed someones thoughts out of hand as complete bs. However, about every one in four comments that i've made have had this happen to them.
Huum, let's see, first result on a search is the deleware state department of air and waste management's site. The particular page is discussing decomposition.
quote:
Probably the most important thing to know about the organisms involved in composting is that the most desirable decomposers require oxygen. If your pile becomes oxygen deficient, these desirable organisms will die, and anaerobic decomposers (those not requiring oxygen) will take over. The anaerobic decomposers will generate odorous products as well as acids and alcohols that can harm plants. You can make sure that your compost remains oxygen rich simply by turning or mixing the pile every week or so, or anytime you notice it becoming odorous.
And here's a little something from a project summary from duke university:
quote:
What factors affect the ability of soil microbes to do this work? Like all chemical reactions, increased temperatures cause more rapid decomposition reactions, unless the temperature is so high that the microbes are adversely affected. Moisture content of the soil also affects decomposition, with most decomposers benefiting from moist conditions. However, waterlogged soils can become anaerobic, thereby killing some decomposers but allowing others to thrive. Since many of the soil microbes do their work underground, light may also adversely affect some decomposers.
They also play a part in the nitrogen cycle. [ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Archon ]
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent OtakuPenguin said:
The old Testament is one big contridiction.Ya see, Jesus hadn't come yet, God had to smack down on the people because they were sinners and had no way of repentence.
When Jesus came, he eliminated that, he brought ways of Forgivness and HIMSELF contradicted the Old Testament. So all that stuff you people are quoting from Exodus and stuff, just made up from the time, the only REALLY relevant things in the Old Testament are the predictions relating to the New Testament, and Moses and the 10 Commandments.
There.
Shit, I posted something religous.
My reminder was in vain! ;_;
Still, how do you explain all the fossils in sedimentary rock? Obviously there was time for it to decompose, so why didn't it? Hmm. Conundrum there. 
quote:
Delphi Aegis had this to say about Pirotess:
Still, how do you explain all the fossils in sedimentary rock? Obviously there was time for it to decompose, so why didn't it? Hmm. Conundrum there.
I honestly don't know. I'd guess that the deal is that animals don't have the cell structure that can be fossilized like plants have. Cell walls/membranes. Just a guess though.
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Archon had this to say about Tron:
I honestly don't know. I'd guess that the deal is that animals don't have the cell structure that can be fossilized like plants have. Cell walls/membranes. Just a guess though.
[ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Delphi Aegis ]
Edit: I'm stepping out for a while now. Bai bai. Tired of arguing proven facts.
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CarbonizationPlants are most commonly fossilized through carbonization. In this process, the mobile oils in the plant's organic matter are leached out and the remaining matter is reduced to a carbon film. Plants have an inner structure of rigid organic walls that may be preserved in this manner, revealing the framework of the original cells. Animal soft tissue has a less rigid cellular structure and is rarely preserved through carbonization.
Petrifaction
Another common mode of preservation of plants is petrifaction, which is the crystallization of minerals inside cells. One of the best-known forms of petrifaction is silicification, a process in which silica-rich fluids enter the plant's cells and crystallize, making the cells appear to have turned to stone (petrified). Famous examples of silicification may be found in the petrified forests of the western United. Petrifaction may also occur in animals when minerals such as calcite, or silica fill the pores and cavities of fossil shells or bones.
Replacement/Sedimentation
Replacement occurs when an organism is buried in mud and its remains are replaced by sulfide (pyrite) or phosphate (apatite) minerals. This process may replace soft tissue, preserving rarely seen details of the organism's anatomy. Paleontologists have used mild acids to etch the phosphatized fossil remains of ancient fish found in Brazil to reveal structures such as gills and muscles. Although mineral replacement is rare, fossils created in this way are important in helping paleontologists compare the anatomical details of prehistoric organisms with those of living organisms.
Recrystallization
Many animal shells are composed of the mineral aragonite, a form of calcium carbonate that breaks down over millions of years to form the more stable mineral calcite. This method of preservation, called recrystallization, destroys the microscopic details of the shell but does not change the overall shape
Soft-Tissue Preservation
The soft tissues of animals are preserved only under extremely unusual conditions, and the preserved tissue usually lasts for only a short period of geological time. In the Siberian permafrost (earth that remains frozen year-round), for example, entire mammoths have been preserved in ice for thousands of years. The remains of the mammoths' last meals have sometimes been preserved in the stomachs, allowing paleontologists to study the animals' diet.
Moulds and Casts
Acidic conditions may slowly dissolve away the skeleton of fossil animals preserved in rock, leaving a space where the organism used to be. The impression that is left in the rock becomes a mould. This process commonly occurs in fossil shells where the calcite shell dissolves easily. The impression of the outside of the shell is the external mould. Sometimes the inside of the shell is filled with sediment before the shell is dissolved, leaving an internal impression of the shell called an internal mould. If the space where the shell used to be is then filled with a new mineral, the replica of the shell forms a cast.
Edit: added the last one [ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Archon ]
And that mammoth meat they found.. China served some of it in one of it's royal banquiets...
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How accurate is potassium-argon dating?The K-Ar (Potassium-Argon) method has been widely used in geological dating. Even rocks with low amounts of potassium (like basalts) have been dated this way. However, the dates are not always "robust" - the geochemical behaviour of both the parent and daughter elements is such that they are prone to being disturbed by events (e.g. re-heating, weathering) that occur after the rock formed.
Everyone esle: Dude! *points, spanks, ownage*
Aanile: *off in lala land singing*
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Aanile said this about your mom:
Arcon: MY WAY IS RIGHT I CAN PROVE IT!! Just.. give me a sec to.. make points.. BUT I DO HAVE PROOF!!
Everyone esle: Dude! *points, spanks, ownage*Aanile: *off in lala land singing*
Well, i think i've done decently. I mean, it was practically just me vs. a whole bunch of people, and at 16, i'm no seminary graduate
Everybody else is going below the belt and he's made an effort to be very professional about it. It's impressive.
JESHUS CRIMANY!
So.. Wait, who wins again? I forget.
quote:
Delphi Aegis had this to say about Punky Brewster:
I fail to see how you have disproved evolution in any way. All you've done is shown my side that fossils are formed, and take millions of years to do so.So.. Wait, who wins again? I forget.
I think i've show that under conventional means, it would take millions of years. I've also shown that this is not possible.
Thus the creationist answer: the flood.
All that proves is that people like writing about floods...
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Aanile said:
There are flood stories in practicaly *EVERY* culture. Hell I've read about 10 of them from Native American legend books.All that proves is that people like writing about floods...
Wha?
Yeah, and?
Don't tell me you believe in the whole fivethousand year old earth shit. 
It doesn't change the fact that all those fossils are still there..
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From the book of Delphi Aegis, chapter 3, verse 16:
It takes millions of years.Yeah, and?
Don't tell me you believe in the whole fivethousand year old earth shit.
It doesn't change the fact that all those fossils are still there..
Well... i believe the earth is around 16-18,000 years old.
The flood can be used to explain fossilization and lots of geographic features.
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This insanity brought to you by Archon:
Wha?
You said.. THe Creationalist's answer was, the flood.
Well, It's not just "THEIR" answer.
As I said, practicaly every culture around the world has some kinda "Great life ending/begining" flood story.
It's not a new concept...
Much like the virgin birth, the resurrection, and a few other parts in the bible that has some sort of coincadental theme that had happened in cultures older then the bible itself...
quote:
ACES! Another post by Aanile:
You said.. THe Creationalist's answer was, the flood.Well, It's not just "THEIR" answer.
As I said, practicaly every culture around the world has some kinda "Great life ending/begining" flood story.
It's not a new concept...
Much like the virgin birth, the resurrection, and a few other parts in the bible that has some sort of coincadental theme that had happened in cultures older then the bible itself...
So was this a counterpoint or just stating a fact?
Right.
You believe, and have no factual proof to support this, just a book that's been rewritten a dozen times or so..
Until you present me with scientific evidence that sasy beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth is NOT five billion years old, all your spewing is bullshit.
Whee.
[ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Archon ]
Just sayin that not everything in the bible is origonal...
quote:
Delphi Aegis got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
...Right.
You believe, and have no factual proof to support this, just a book that's been rewritten a dozen times or so..
Until you present me with scientific evidence that sasy beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth is NOT five billion years old, all your spewing is bullshit.
Whee.
PZWNED!!! holy hell that was a huge spank!
quote:
Aanile stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
PZWNED!!! holy hell that was a huge spank!
Do you have anything to contribute?
*dances*
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Delphi Aegis had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
...Right.
You believe, and have no factual proof to support this, just a book that's been rewritten a dozen times or so..
Until you present me with scientific evidence that sasy beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth is NOT five billion years old, all your spewing is bullshit.
Whee.
"When you have ruled out the impossible," Arthur Conan Doyle wrote in the voice of Sherlock Holmes, "whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be the truth."
At this point, the most logical theories have been discredited. I present an unlikely, but not impossible solution. If you can keep your earlier arguments valid, or bring new ones that i can't refute, then it remains an option. [ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Archon ]
quote:
Suddar was listening to Cher while typing:
You people are all bitter, mean and callous.
quote:
Archon had this to say about dark elf butts:
Do you have anything to contribute?
I do 
You just got spanked again! *snicker*
Fun.
ben(at)netmastering(dot)nl
quote:
Aanile thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
i did.. but like.. you chose not to bother with them.. so now.. I'm just here. =P*dances*
What did you post? I must have missed it.
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Aanile impressed everyone with:
I was waiting on seeing if you had anything to add to my floody type answer
Well, like i said, i didn't know if that was a counter point or just a little bit of information. Why does it needs to be debated?
quote:
Archon had this to say about dark elf butts:
At this point, the most logical theories have been discredited.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Archon said:
"When you have ruled out the impossible," Arthur Conan Doyle wrote in the voice of Sherlock Holmes, "whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be the truth."At this point, the most logical theories have been discredited. I present an unlikely, but not impossible solution. If you can keep your earlier arguments valid, or bring new ones that i can't refute, then it remains an option.
I can play the quote game too.
Do not automatically remove any possibility.
While it is POSSIBLE that some dumbass noah built a big ark (Which, by the bibles definition of Cubits, and the measurments they give, could NOT hold "Two of every species", but thats a different dispute..), and kept it afloat..
It's also ever so much more possible that a bolt of lightning fried a bit of random chemicals near the seaside, and life was formed.
Either way, you're basing your ENTIRE argument on a book that's been rewritten and reworded and reinterpreted SO MANY TIMES that nobody, not even the fuggin vatican can decide what the hell it means.
Hell, they're still trying to decide good politics.
quote:
Suddar Model 2000 was programmed to say:
You people are all bitter, mean and callous.
Fuck me hard.
The total available floor space on the ark would have been over 100,000 square feet, which would be more floor space than in 20 standard-sized basketball courts.
The total cubic volume would have been 1,518,000 cubic feet [462,686.4 cubic meters] --that would be equal to the capacity of 569 modern railroad stock cars.
Now comes the question, how many land dwelling air breathing animals would have had to be taken aboard the ark to survive the flood?
According to Ernest Mayr, America's leading taxonomist, there are over 1 million species of animals in the world.
However, the vast majority of these are capable of surviving in water and would not need to be brought aboard the ark. Noah need make no provision for the 21,000 species of fish or the 1,700 tunicates (marine chordates like sea squirts) found throughout the seas of the world, or the 600 echinoderms including star fish and sea urchins, or the 107,000 mollusks such as mussels, clams and oysters, or the 10,000 coelenterates like corals and sea anemones, jelly fish and hydroids or the 5,000 species of sponges, or the 30,000 protozoans, the microscopic single-celled creatures.
In addition, some of the mammals are aquatic. For example, the whales, seals and porpoises. The amphibians need not all have been included, nor all the reptiles, such as sea turtles, and alligators. Moreover, a large number of the arthropods numbering 838,000 species, such as lobsters, shrimp, crabs and water fleas and barnacles are marine creatures. And the insect species among arthropoda are usually very small. Also, many of the 35,000 species of worms as well as many of the insects could have survived outside the Ark.
Most Hebrew scholars believe the cubit to have been no less than 18 inches long [45.72 centimeters]. This means that the ark would have been at least 450 feet long [137.16 meters], 75 feet wide [22.86 meters] and 45 feet high [13.716000000000001 meters]. Noah's Ark was said to have been the largest sea-going vessel ever built until the late nineteenth century when giant metal ships were first constructed. Its length to width ratio of six to one provided excellent stability on the high seas. In fact, modern shipbuilders say it would have been almost impossible to turn over. In every way, it was admirably suited for riding out the tremendous storms in the year of the flood.
These dimensions are especially interesting when compared to those given in the mythical, Babylonian account of the Ark. Here the ark is described as a perfect cube, extending 120 cubits in all directions and with nine decks. Such a vessel would spin slowly round and round in the water and from the standpoint of stability, would be a disaster.
But was the ark big enough to hold the number of animals required?
The total available floor space on the ark would have been over 100,000 square feet, which would be more floor space than in 20 standard-sized basketball courts.
Assuming an 18-inch cubit [45.72 centimeters], Noah's Ark would have had a cubic volume equal to 569 modern railroad stock cars.
The total cubic volume would have been 1,518,000 cubic feet [462,686.4 cubic meters] --that would be equal to the capacity of 569 modern railroad stock cars.
Now comes the question, how many land dwelling air breathing animals would have had to be taken aboard the ark to survive the flood?
According to Ernest Mayr, America's leading taxonomist, there are over 1 million species of animals in the world.
God only provided the Ark for the protection of humans and land-dwelling, air-breathing creatures. A huge number of animals would not need to be taken aboard the Ark because they are water dwellers. Representatives would be expected to survive the catastrophe. With God's protection against extinction during the Deluge, survival would have been assured.
However, the vast majority of these are capable of surviving in water and would not need to be brought aboard the ark. Noah need make no provision for the 21,000 species of fish or the 1,700 tunicates (marine chordates like sea squirts) found throughout the seas of the world, or the 600 echinoderms including star fish and sea urchins, or the 107,000 mollusks such as mussels, clams and oysters, or the 10,000 coelenterates like corals and sea anemones, jelly fish and hydroids or the 5,000 species of sponges, or the 30,000 protozoans, the microscopic single-celled creatures.
In addition, some of the mammals are aquatic. For example, the whales, seals and porpoises. The amphibians need not all have been included, nor all the reptiles, such as sea turtles, and alligators. Moreover, a large number of the arthropods numbering 838,000 species, such as lobsters, shrimp, crabs and water fleas and barnacles are marine creatures. And the insect species among arthropoda are usually very small. Also, many of the 35,000 species of worms as well as many of the insects could have survived outside the Ark.
How many animals needed to be brought aboard?
Doctors Morris and Whitcomb in their classic book, "The Genesis Flood," state that no more than 35,000 individual animals needed to go on the ark. In his well documented book, Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, John Woodmorappe suggests that far fewer animals would have been transported upon the ark. By pointing out that the word "specie" is not equivalent to the "created kinds" of the Genesis account, Woodmorappe credibly demonstrates that as few as 2,000 animals may have been required on the ark. To pad this number for error, he continues his study by showing that the ark could easily accommodate 16,000 animals.)
But, let's be generous and add on a reasonable number to include extinct animals. Then add on some more to satisfy even the most skeptical. Let's assume 50,000 animals, far more animals than required, were on board the ark, and these need not have been the largest or even adult specimens.
Remember there are really only a few very large animals, such as the dinosaur or the elephant, and these could be represented by young ones. Assuming the average animal to be about the size of a sheep and using a railroad car for comparison, we note that the average double-deck stock car can accommodate 240 sheep. Thus, three trains hauling 69 cars each would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37% of the ark. This would leave an additional 361 cars or enough to make 5 trains of 72 cars each to carry all of the food and baggage plus Noah's family of eight people. The Ark had plenty of space. [ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Archon ]
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From the book of Archon, chapter 3, verse 16:
something
If you're going to copy what a website says. you should at least give it credit by linking to it [ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Mr. Duck ]
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Mr. Duck thought about the meaning of life:
If you're going to copy what a website says. you should at least give it credit by linking to it
I tried linking and took flak for it.
