quote:
Check out the big brain on Drysart!
Still waiting on all that "evidence" you said you had, by the way.
Like i said, i'm sorry i brought that up. It would have been more correct to say that the 'proofs' of evolution have had countless holes shot in them. Either way, also like i said, all 'evidence' is viewed subjectivly in such a debate and where i may draw a certain conclusion, you may draw a completely different one. Just like my views on dna and structure similarities in my last post.
quote:
Archon had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Carbon dating has been proven completely inacurate over 60,000 years, though some claim it may be acurate at up to 75,000 years. Even these calculations assume that the rate of decay has remained constant, and the amounts present have also remained constant, neither of which can be proved as we were not at the estimated dates to observe this.
True. Which is why, for older items, they don't use carbon dating. They use the potassium-argon method for dating things. You can also look at the age of the rock strata that you find something in for a broad estimate of age.
Pizowned. [ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Callalron ]
quote:
Khyron Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Yep, now tell me, bible boy, which 'them' is he speaking of; the fathers, or the children?'The third and fourth generation of them that hate me'
'The grand children and great-grandchildren, of those fathers who hate me.'
Or... 'The grand children and great-grandchildren, of those children who hate me.'
Personally, I rather think the first makes a wee bit more sense, but that's just me.
Like i said, biases and subjectiveness abound in such topics. That was my view on the information, this is yours. Fair enough.
quote:
Archon had this to say about Knight Rider:
DNA and structural similarities don't seem to refute creationism in any way to me. If you have a mold that works, why not use it again? If they had a "common ancestor" from which they both evolved, why would they have evolved any different at all?
Because you're viewing it as two different species evolving at the same time...
Think of it a little differently.
The modern ancestors of humans, were primates. The modern ancestors of primates, are therefor... what? The same primates that humans evolved from? Or something even lower on the evolutionary ladder?
What was before primates? What might have evolved into primates, whilst primates evolved into the sapiens you see around you?
Evolution doesn't always have to mean many different ladders... it may just be that on one ladder, there are species below species below species...
Now, you've done plenty of work showing us the 'holes' and subjectiveness towards evolution, try explaining those same holes and subjectiveness towards the bible which is the basis for creationism. [ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Khyron ]
quote:
Archon was listening to Cher while typing:
Like i said, biases and subjectiveness abound in such topics. That was my view on the information, this is yours. Fair enough.
quote:
Archon said stuff:
Like i said, i'm sorry i brought that up. It would have been more correct to say that the 'proofs' of evolution have had countless holes shot in them. Either way, also like i said, all 'evidence' is viewed subjectivly in such a debate and where i may draw a certain conclusion, you may draw a completely different one. Just like my views on dna and structure similarities in my last post.
So where's the difference? Subjectivity in the bible, which is the foundation of creationism, or subjectivity in the 'evidence' towards evolutionism? Why should one be considered more true than another?
quote:
Callalron had this to say about Cuba:
True. Which is why, for older items, they don't use carbon dating. They use the potassium-argon method for dating things. You can also look at the age of the rock strata that you find something in for a broad estimate of age.Pizowned.
Like i said, more and more evidence is coming out faster than creationists can deal with it. Unfortunatly, i have never heard of postassium argon dating, and i'm sure most people who support evolution haven't either. As for the rock stratas, thats nonsense. You know how they determined the dates for the rock strata? The age of the fossils found in them. Circular logic. And the whole rock layers theory has been torn to shreds by one simple fact. There have been tons and tons and tons of fossiles found that transcend multiple levels. I seriously doubt that tree lived for serveral millions of years as it was slowly buried. Hence the flood.
quote:
Verily, Khyron doth proclaim:
So where's the difference? Subjectivity in the bible, which is the foundation of creationism, or subjectivity in the 'evidence' towards evolutionism? Why should one be considered more true than another?
DING DING DING!!! You win. You're right. They have the same validity. So, no need to continue the faith/fact discussion.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Archon said:
Consequences are not the same as punishment. God isn't saying, "Oh man, Adam and Eve fucked up," and spanking you. He's saying, "Oh man, Adam and Eve fucked up," and letting us deal with the repercussions. Responsibility plays a major part in the free will God has given us.
Sounds like you're just inventing new terminology to explain inconsistencies. A decision intended to punish the unfaithful is unilaterally being applied to all, even the faithful.
So God doesn't punish the faithful children except when he does?
quote:
Archon had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
DING DING DING!!! You win. You're right. They have the same validity. So, no need to continue the faith/fact discussion.
quote:
Archon said more stuff!
There is more evidence supporting a creator than a remote chance as the origin of life. Stating evolution as anything other than faith, goes against the majority of the principals behind the scientific process.
Archon, as much as I admire how hard you're working to debate this, you really gotta stick to one view and defend it; contradicting yourself repeatedly through this thread isn't helping your side much.
quote:
Archon wrote this stupid crap:
Like i said, i'm sorry i brought that up. It would have been more correct to say that the 'proofs' of evolution have had countless holes shot in them. Either way, also like i said, all 'evidence' is viewed subjectivly in such a debate and where i may draw a certain conclusion, you may draw a completely different one. Just like my views on dna and structure similarities in my last post.
*whips out the backpedal-per-second meter*
*pushes the 'measure' button*
.
.
.
Shit! It's off the scale!
(oh, and need I say it? SPANKED!)
ben(at)netmastering(dot)nl
quote:
Drysart had this to say about (_|_):
Sounds like you're just inventing new terminology to explain inconsistencies. A decision intended to punish the unfaithful is unilaterally being applied to all, even the faithful.So God doesn't punish the faithful children except when he does?
And thus the so-called "red thread of redemption." And also the fundamental difference between christianity and anything else. Christ was sent to patch our rapidly sinking boat so we can finish the journey as it was intended. I don't claim to know how God has the whole deal planned, or why he did and does do what he does. Isaiah stated that God's thoughts are higher than any humans thoughts just as the heavens are higher than the earth. If you don't believe this, that's your perogative.
Now follow me, bibleboy.
Lets take a pile of compost. lets say that every week, you put on a layer of mowed grass. Over the summer, that's what.. twenty or so layers? Lets say 25 for the fuck of it.
Now, the first layer is going to decompose faster then the others, obviously, since it was put there first. The last layer you put on there is going to decompose last, right?
Well, lets see what happens when we take all these layers, and drill a hole in the center at the end of the summer. At the very bottom, we'll find the most decomposed, rotting dirt you've seen. Good stuff for plants. Higher up, it becomes less and less like dirt until, *gasp!* its like freshly mown grass.
The same basic principal applies to geologic studies today. It's easy to see geologic history, since it is so DAMNED SLOW compared to us, so when we dig a core sample, we can see each and every layer of dead thing that went there. Go out in the desert sometime, find a new rock outcropping, you'll see the layers.
They do the same thing with ice to estimate global snowfalls, and temperatures, and bunches of other stuff.
Saying that "The only way to date a layer of rock is to date a fossil, and the only way to date a fossil is to date the layer of rock" is not only completly wrong, but silly, as well.
quote:
Khyron attempted to be funny by writing:
Archon, as much as I admire how hard you're working to debate this, you really gotta stick to one view and defend it; contradicting yourself repeatedly through this thread isn't helping your side much.
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Archon said:
Like i said, i'm sorry i brought that up. It would have been more correct to say that the 'proofs' of evolution have had countless holes shot in them. Either way, also like i said, all 'evidence' is viewed subjectivly in such a debate and where i may draw a certain conclusion, you may draw a completely different one. Just like my views on dna and structure similarities in my last post.
quote:
Delphi Aegis attempted to be funny by writing:
Saying that "The only way to date a layer of rock is to date a fossil, and the only way to date a fossil is to date the layer of rock" is not only completly wrong, but silly, as well.
I am aware of this. I'm not the one trying to push this as the way things work.
And, damn. I'm going to be labled bibleboy forever now, aren't i?
quote:
Archon thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Like i said, i'm sorry i brought that up. It would have been more correct to say that the 'proofs' of evolution have had countless holes shot in them. Either way, also like i said, all 'evidence' is viewed subjectivly in such a debate and where i may draw a certain conclusion, you may draw a completely different one. Just like my views on dna and structure similarities in my last post.
Now, Archon, let's apply this towards the true subject of this thread.
The abortion issue. It's completely and totally subjective, based upon too many factors; how far along the development cycle, the capabilities for the mother (and if applicable, father) to care for the child, the risks of pregnancy, et cetera.
So by your own logic and past posts, any subject that can be viewed subjectively can't claim 'right' or 'wrong' on its own. It's both equally valid, and invalid. Therefor, there's just as much right that a person should abort the pregnancy, as there is that the person should not.
Show me where I'm wrong.
quote:
Archon thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
And, damn. I'm going to be labled bibleboy forever now, aren't i?
"Bibleboy" sounds a title to me. Drys, what's the verdict?
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
*God pokes your nose*
"Meep!"
quote:
Verily, Archon doth proclaim:
In order for a dead organism to be preserved it has to be done immediatly. Otherwise it rots. Why would there be preserved trees vertically placed through these layers of rock that supposedly date across millions of years? It couldn't have possible lived all that time, and if it had died it would have decayed.
You are assuming that once something dies, it rots instantly.
This is untrue, you can go into the woods and see yourself, a bigass tree that falls takes a loooong time to decompose back into dirt.
You are also assuming that NOTHING else can happen to that tree while it is dead, before it decomposes.
What happens if it falls into a tar pit? Or gets washed under a riverbed and buried under dirt? Or covered by lava (Yes, a tree or an animal fossil can survive such a thing, though it is rare)?
You have much to learn about geology.. and not contradicting yourself in two seperate posts. 
quote:
Khyron probably says this to all the girls:
Now, Archon, let's apply this towards the true subject of this thread.The abortion issue. It's completely and totally subjective, based upon too many factors; how far along the development cycle, the capabilities for the mother (and if applicable, father) to care for the child, the risks of pregnancy, et cetera.
So by your own logic and past posts, any subject that can be viewed subjectively can't claim 'right' or 'wrong' on its own. It's both equally valid, and invalid. Therefor, there's just as much right that a person should abort the pregnancy, as there is that the person should not.
Show me where I'm wrong.
I guess i'll settle for a stand-off. It's all i really could hope for considering my lack of knowledge of the subject. And if i keep going as 97% of the debate on this side, i'll slip up even more than i already have. Abortion comes down to opinion on when the "life" starts and exactly what that means. Christianity is not an evil organization out to get the world, and indeed has managed to contribute. Evolution vs. Creationism also boils down to faith, on both sides.
quote:
Archon had this to say about dark elf butts:
Evolution vs. Creationism also boils down to faith, on both sides.
You broke my bullshit-ometer with that one. Now I have to buy a new one. 
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
Check out the big brain on Delphi Aegis!
You are assuming that once something dies, it rots instantly.This is untrue, you can go into the woods and see yourself, a bigass tree that falls takes a loooong time to decompose back into dirt.
You are also assuming that NOTHING else can happen to that tree while it is dead, before it decomposes.
What happens if it falls into a tar pit? Or gets washed under a riverbed and buried under dirt? Or covered by lava (Yes, a tree or an animal fossil can survive such a thing, though it is rare)?
You have much to learn about geology.. and not contradicting yourself in two seperate posts.
But there are just too many instances of organisms transcending rock layers to say they all fell in tar pits, rivers, or lava. Assuming that these circumstances don't apply across the board, which makes sense to me, these things wouldn't have to rot instantly. If these layers did take millions of years, i'm sure that's more than enough time to rot completely. Not to mention that many are preserved vertically. Even if something lasted the millions of years to be buried without rotting it wouldn't be standing anymore.
quote:
Archon had this to say about Cuba:
I guess i'll settle for a stand-off. It's all i really could hope for considering my lack of knowledge of the subject. And if i keep going as 97% of the debate on this side, i'll slip up even more than i already have. Abortion comes down to opinion on when the "life" starts and exactly what that means. Christianity is not an evil organization out to get the world, and indeed has managed to contribute. Evolution vs. Creationism also boils down to faith, on both sides.
Actually, my point was that if there's equally valid points for having an abortion, and not having, then the choice is there and pro-choice is, inevitably, the only logical conclusion
You can't straight-out say that anti-abortion is completely right, and can't straight-out say that abortion is completely right; just as you can't say creationism is completely right, or evolution is; what you can say is that in the end, it's a decision that has to be left up to the individual.
quote:
Karnaj got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
You broke my bullshit-ometer with that one. Now I have to buy a new one.
Well, if you want to tell me that everything i've said to refute Evolution as scienctific truth is untrue, then go ahead and think you've got it right.
quote:
MadCat the 2nd painfully thought these words up:
I'd like to see that evidence that supports a creator - really, I do. Please, post it. With references as to where you got it from please.
quote:
Genisis, 26; Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."27 So God created man in his own image,
WELL THAT'S ALL THE PROOF I NEED
I want you to kill something, boil it in water, then seal it in a jar.
DOES IT DECOMPOSE? No. Why? Because the bacteria, mold, and other bits that you cannot see CANNOT MAKE IT DECOMPOSE.
Funny how that works, eh?
If a tree or plant or what-the-fuck-ever is crushed under layers of rock, regardless if there was bacteria/mold/whatever present beforehand, there is nothing for it to feed on. "What about the plant/organism??!", you say?
What about the atmosphere it needs to metabolize that fossil? What about the minerals that seep into the structure of said plant/organism that petrify it into rock? Eh? What about that?
...okay, I really just wanted an excuse to use a funny picture. 
quote:
Delphi Aegis wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
.. Dude.I want you to kill something, boil it in water, then seal it in a jar.
DOES IT DECOMPOSE? No. Why? Because the bacteria, mold, and other bits that you cannot see CANNOT MAKE IT DECOMPOSE.
Funny how that works, eh?
If a tree or plant or what-the-fuck-ever is crushed under layers of rock, regardless if there was bacteria/mold/whatever present beforehand, there is nothing for it to feed on. "What about the plant/organism??!", you say?
What about the atmosphere it needs to metabolize that fossil? What about the minerals that seep into the structure of said plant/organism that petrify it into rock? Eh? What about that?
Well, yeah, nature is anything but sterile. And there are many many decomposing bacteria that operate anaerobically. Thats why when you can stuff improperly, even without air in the container, it rots.
quote:
Archon had this to say about Cuba:
Well, yeah, nature is anything but sterile. And there are many many decomposing bacteria that operate anaerobically. Thats why when you can stuff improperly, even without air in the container, it rots.
Most of the bacteria strains that metabolized dead material died off or were isolated millions upon millions upon MILLIONS of years ago. The last anerobic bacteria are seen, observed, and documented in Yellowstone's vast array of gysers.
Better experiment: Boil some chicken broth, then cap the bottle (Usually done in those flasks with the bubble bottom.). Notice any change in, say two weeks? Three? Nope? Aww. Creationist said that "There's no air for it to contact, so it cant possibly grow anything in there!"
So they did it in a flask where nothing could directly fall into it.
Kinda like this.. if you'll excuse the horrid diagram.
code:O\/
Ya know what? Same results.
Hmmm, I think the point was missed in my post... the only reason I'm alive today was that my parents didn't have a abortion. explain to me why anyone had a right to kill me? well... whats your answer, because they didn't have the resources? they didn't want me? because my life would be hell on earth as a kid? guess what! I survived through all that and i'm quite glad to be alive. so please tell me... why should I be dead right now? why are you saying I shouldn't have even had a chance at life?
Ya see, Jesus hadn't come yet, God had to smack down on the people because they were sinners and had no way of repentence.
When Jesus came, he eliminated that, he brought ways of Forgivness and HIMSELF contradicted the Old Testament. So all that stuff you people are quoting from Exodus and stuff, just made up from the time, the only REALLY relevant things in the Old Testament are the predictions relating to the New Testament, and Moses and the 10 Commandments.
There.
Shit, I posted something religous.
[ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Archon ]
Christ, the royal master,
Leads against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See, His banners go!
Onward, Christian Soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
Like a mighty army,
Moves the Church of God:
Brothers, we are treading,
Where the saints have trod;
We are not divided,
All one body we,
One in hope, in doctrine,
One in Charity.
Onward, Christian Soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before;
Onward then, ye people!
Join our happy throng,
Blend with ours your voices
In the triumph song;
Glory, laud and honor
Unto Christ, the King,
This through countless ages Men and angels sing
Onward, Christian Soldiers!
Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before______
quote:
Archon had this to say about Cuba:
Uhh, you just kinda stuck "creationists" in there, didn't you? Because it sure doesn't belong. And the bit about decomposing bacteria having died off or being isolated millions of years ago... That has to be the funniest shit i've heard in a loooong time.
Sorry for spewing out facts you don't feel like refuting.
If you'd like to give any evidence against what I've said, please do so. Please point out large strains of anerobic bacteria that are major decomposers in modern (I.E. less then 2 billion years old) times.
