I did not ostracize myself. I did not try to make people dislike me. I was simply there. I existed, that was enough for them to hate me.

I have a history of being picked on. I had cancer when I was 4 1/2. When I went back to school, I was bald. I wore hats. I had absolutely no hair.

I was a nice kid. I tried to be polite to everyone. I was laughed at and ridiculed at first. Know why? Wow, because I didn't have any hair. That's it. The only thing that stopped it was when I told them "Don't like it, don't look." They saw they couldn't get a rise out of me, so they quit. And we all got along.

Now tell me how my six year old self tried to alienate myself when from the first day I walked in, I was teased for having no hair? Tell me how my grade school and junior high school self was attempting to choose to not fit in simply by possessing a brain.

As I pointed out already, I helped people if they needed it. I didn't lord anything over them. I didn't act like they were dirt. I was patient and understanding and tried my hardest to be friendly and helpful.

Yet these same people, who I had given absolutely no reason to hate me, did. You're trying to make it out like anyone that teases isn't petty. They are. So Sol tries to intimidate. If they weren't petty, they just wouldn't respond. I walk in with no hair, or a knack for numbers. If they weren't petty, they wouldn't torment me for it, make me feel six inches high just because I can do something they can't.

High school I was actually popular. I was in a new school where intelligence was respected, instead of belittled. It is the people you're around sometimes, Sage. You had a good experience there. You were unpopular at first just from being ignored, not actively disliked.

I still, however, think you're a fool to think everyone that's picked on deserves it. They don't. Some people just hate you for no reason, and feel they need to make your life miserable for it.

What the FUCK? Last time I remember posting something like this was a while back. I have since stopped giving a fuck. People don't like me? Yay. Can't change that. People do? Good. Someone else to listen to me ramble. And I DEFINITELY do not remember posting anything on this topic. Except for "Cease speaking?".

Nobody likes me
Everybody hates me
I think I'll go eat worms

quote:

---

Bloodsage had this to say about Tron:
WTFY?

You can either fit in, or not. If you choose not to, then you've no right to bitch at those who don't accept you.

@@@@@There is a difference between not accepting and flaming the hell out of. If there isn't then I think that people do have the right to bitch about people that don't accept it. I was a Protestant in a School that had Catholics for the Majority. Do you think that I shouldn't complain about them flaming me because I choose not to convert?

It has nothing to do with "being true to yourself." Get a grip.

@@@@Not always. But sometimes it does. The vast majority of people in my School drank heavily. We had on of the highest in the state. I chose not to. To do otherwise for seeking popularity would have "betrayed" my true self. Also, do you have any idea how many times I was made fun of because I chose to be a Virgin in high school? Many times it has everything to do with being true to yourself.

If you have a question, feel free to ask it. Otherwise, I suggest you keep comments about being "spineless" to yourself. Unless you'd like to compare combat records, or some other mutually-agreeable standard for demonstrating backbone?

@@@@Keg, you shouldn't have called him spineless. That's not right either.

---

I owe a small amount of gratitude to Lyinar...

Whereas before my post was only mildly funny, it is now exceedingly funny. Hysterical even.

To see hypocrites calling hypocrites hypocrites, and children calling children children...ahh, one can only DREAM of this kind of entertainment.

And now, I take my bow and leave the fight. This thread having served its purpose: to entertain, and Lyinar having served hers: well...we all know what that is.

If you still feel compelled, Lyinar, my PM box always has a little space juuuuuust for yoooou.

Until then, adieu! I hope someday you can get over your bitterness. But until then, you'll be the funniest thing around here!

Tah!

quote:

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vertue had this to say about Tron:
[QUOTE]Bloodsage had this to say about Tron:
[qb]WTFY?

You can either fit in, or not. If you choose not to, then you've no right to bitch at those who don't accept you.

@@@@@There is a difference between not accepting and flaming the hell out of. If there isn't then I think that people do have the right to bitch about people that don't accept it. I was a Protestant in a School that had Catholics for the Majority. Do you think that I shouldn't complain about them flaming me because I choose not to convert?

It has nothing to do with "being true to yourself." Get a grip.

@@@@Not always. But sometimes it does. The vast majority of people in my School drank heavily. We had on of the highest in the state. I chose not to. To do otherwise for seeking popularity would have "betrayed" my true self. Also, do you have any idea how many times I was made fun of because I chose to be a Virgin in high school? Many times it has everything to do with being true to yourself.

If you have a question, feel free to ask it. Otherwise, I suggest you keep comments about being "spineless" to yourself. Unless you'd like to compare combat records, or some other mutually-agreeable standard for demonstrating backbone?

@@@@Keg, you shouldn't have called him spineless. That's not right either.

---

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: nem-x ]

quote:

---

Check out the big brain on nem-x!
You don't know how ANNOYING that is.@@@@@@@@@@@@

---

I did not, anywhere, say "everyone" or "always."

One doesn't base discussions around exceptions. Which is what you're attempting to do.

And your story as just told is significantly different than the one you told in your last whining "I hate jocks" post. There, you said you hated all the things other people liked, and thought them petty and boring. Because, naturally, you were too smart for them.

Bullshit.

Just like your pathetic attempt to be Mom in this thread, your underlying arrogance shines through.

Nor does this little convenient diversion have the least bit to do with your inexcuseable behavior tonight. You chose to go offensive in an argument that was over. You chose to act in exactly the manner you claim to condemn, then belatedly try to claim some sort of ironic moral high ground. You are the one violating everything you claim to stand for.

Feel free to disagree with me--not, as you have so far, on the basis of you telling me what it was I actually experienced, however--but at least make a small effort to be consistent. And leave your pet out of it.

quote:

---

So quoth Bloodsage:
WTFY?

You can either fit in, or not. If you choose not to, then you've no right to bitch at those who don't accept you.

It has nothing to do with "being true to yourself." Get a grip.

If you have a question, feel free to ask it. Otherwise, I suggest you keep comments about being "spineless" to yourself. Unless you'd like to compare combat records, or some other mutually-agreeable standard for demonstrating backbone?

---

I simply stayed as a reject and became friends with people who I shared interests with. Then, as my peers matured, the need to change my lifestyle to fit in diminished. In the end, I came out happier.

Besides, the popular crowd is just a bunch of dickwaving jock bastards. Trying to fit in with them is lowering myself below ground level. I have standards. I'd rather face the slight annoyance of being ridiculed by self-centered dumbshits than lower myself to their level.

quote:

---

High school I was actually popular. I was in a new school where intelligence was respected, instead of belittled.

---

What school was that, exactly?

At my school, it seems pretty much everyone you meet is posing as a pro skateboarder when in reality someone like Tony Hawk could kick their asses to the bottom of Hell and back eight thousand times over, *gasp* An addict who has nothing better to do than smoke pot and inject heroin into themselves while they skip classes, or someone who listens to rap with the bass and volume cranked so high, you can almost hear their brains screaming with every beat.

Still, I shouldn't have been driven by revenge, whether for someone else or not. I do admit fault in that.

I do not, however, admit fault in the point I was trying to make. We need to stop being so petty to each other, myself included. We all just need to try to more respect, and consideration, not oneupmanship all the time.

quote:

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Check out the big brain on Nem-X!

You don't know how ANNOYING that is.@@@@@@@@@@@@

---

Oh sorry, I'll stop doing it then.

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: vertue ]

quote:

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Oho~ I R SO WITTY TO MAKE IT ALL BOLD AND SHIET:
Oh sorry, I'll stop doing it then.

---

Go fuck yourself.

This is what my friend told me to say to Sam:

Tell him that he's insensitive and cowardly. Tell him the feeling emotions is one and that expressing them is another. And that he CANNOT do one without the other, otherwise, it's just not enough.

I am so open for flaming right now, but I really don't give a shit.

quote:

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Kegwen had this to say about pies:
I simply stayed as a reject and became friends with people who I shared interests with. Then, as my peers matured, the need to change my lifestyle to fit in diminished. In the end, I came out happier.

Besides, the popular crowd is just a bunch of dickwaving jock bastards. Trying to fit in with them is lowering myself below ground level. I have standards. I'd rather face the slight annoyance of being ridiculed by self-centered dumbshits than lower myself to their level.

---

Oh, goody! More mindless bigotry!

Since you've already accepted my membership in that group you say is beneath you, why don't you enumerate all the things that make you a better human being? Take a minute to think about it.

You're doing exactly the same thing you criticize them for, and dehumanizing anyone with different interests than you, for no better reason than to make yourself feel good. Go you.

Is your sense of self so fragile you have to put down everyone else just to feel good about yourself?

quote:

---

Bloodsage's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Oh, goody! More mindless bigotry!

Since you've already accepted my membership in that group you say is beneath you, why don't you enumerate all the things that make you a better human being? Take a minute to think about it.

You're doing exactly the same thing you criticize them for, and dehumanizing anyone with different interests than you, for no better reason than to make yourself feel good. Go you.

Is your sense of self so fragile you have to put down everyone else just to feel good about yourself?

---

quote:

---

Kegwen's fortune cookie read:
A denial of one's emotions is cowardly. "ONO THEY MITE MAEK FUN OF ME 4 HAEVIN HUMAN EMOTINS!!!!1" is a pathetic excuse to be a non-feeling machine.

This is what my friend told me to say to Sam:

Tell him that he's insensitive and cowardly. Tell him the feeling emotions is one and that expressing them is another. And that he CANNOT do one without the other, otherwise, it's just not enough.

I am so open for flaming right now, but I really don't give a shit.

---

You should 1) address that to someone, because it's not at all clear WTF you're talking about, and 2) prepare to lose an argument.

I would like to take this time to announce that I am extremely tired, I have an itch on my forehead, and I just accidentally crushed my gonads.

Thank you.

quote:

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Black Mage had this to say about Tron:
[QUOTE]Bloodsage's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
[qb]Oh, goody! More mindless bigotry!

Since you've already accepted my membership in that group you say is beneath you, why don't you enumerate all the things that make you a better human being? Take a minute to think about it.

You're doing exactly the same thing you criticize them for, and dehumanizing anyone with different interests than you, for no better reason than to make yourself feel good. Go you.

Is your sense of self so fragile you have to put down everyone else just to feel good about yourself?

---

Explain, or retract that statement.

Sorry to say it, but your mere assertion does not make it so.

'Fraid you'll need more than that to beat Bloodsage.

quote:

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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent nem-x said:
Go fuck yourself.

---

Is that even possible?

And though you might need an explaination, my meaning got across to others.

Plus, I'm filling my quota here.

They think we're pathetic, we think they're pricks. It's a hate-hate relationship. It all works out.

Mind you, not all popular people are assholes. It just seems that the vast majority of them tend to be, especially through high school, simply for the contentment that they get from making their friends laugh.

Heh... the guy whose friends are all at least one year younger than him being anything BUT a loser... What a concept...

Sorry I came off wrong on certain aspects, but I'm basing my flames off of one potential aspect of the desperate search for popularity, and apparently less people follow that path than I thought.

quote:

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vertue had this to say about dark elf butts:
Is that even possible?

---

I'm sure Lenlalron knows.

There's your spotlight Lenny.

quote:

---

Bloodsage's fortune cookie read:
You should 1) address that to someone, because it's not at all clear WTF you're talking about, and 2) prepare to lose an argument.

---

Oh, I already lost the argument. I'm just sucking up bandwidth at this point.

I have no idea what I'm babbling about anymore... I'm done here, now. I apologize for all my attacks on Bloodsage and take my leave of this thread.

[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Kegwen ]

quote:

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Black Mage said this about your mom:
No, too lazy and tired right now.

And though you might need an explaination, my meaning got across to others.

Plus, I'm filling my quota here.

---

Ah, yes. Standard coward's debate tactic: make unsubstantiated allegations, then refuse to elaborate.

The mysterious "others" who agree with you was a nice touch, too.

quote:

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Bloodsage painfully thought these words up:
You know why people are picked on in school?

Because they choose not to fit in.

---

Where is the absensce of "always" there? You are very basically stating that people who are picked on have done something to deserve it.

And yes, Sage, I didn't like the same things other people did. I just didn't do them. I didn't like drinking, so I didn't do it. I didn't like smoking, so I didn't do it. I did not, ever, once, hold it over their head that I didn't do it. I didn't act like they were lesser than me because of it.

In my own mind, I thought they were idiots to do what they did. But I was still friendly to them, polite and civil. I just didn't do the same things they did.

I did despise the jocks at my school, though. They acted like idiots just to act like idiots. I looked down on them personally, mentally, but I never had the urge to give that attitude verbal vent. I just did my thing and let them do theirs. I had my beliefs, but I didn't feel the need to mock them for theirs.

But my point is that it is not always a matter of fitting in, as you stated. I had one girl, in junior high, that from the first day, she did not like me. She did everything she could to make my days miserable. This is before we talked, before she knew my intelligence, anything. We were in class together, and she just did not like me. So she took it upon herself to "take me down a peg" or whatever she thought she was doing.

That same thing is seen here. Nobody even has to do anything, but a member decides they don't like someone, for whatever reason, and they feel it's their god-given right to crush them. And I'm sorry, but I'm going to speak up against that. Because you can't treat people like that. They don't deserve your ridicule just because you decide it.

quote:

---

Bloodsage enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Ah, yes. Standard coward's debate tactic: make unsubstantiated allegations, then refuse to elaborate.

The mysterious "others" who agree with you was a nice touch, too.

---

I have been one-upped, now I won't be able to sleep tonight. Woe is me. I have been owned by the combined forces of Bloodsage and Ruyven.

Haha.

NONE OF U UDNERSTAND ME

NO1 UNDERSTADNS ME U ALL HAET ME Y DO U HAET ME I DDI NOTHNIG 2 U

U ALL HAET ME BCUZ IM A GOTHIC VAMPIRE U JSUT DONT WANT ME 2 B DIFFFERENT UR JELOUS BCUZ IM SMARTER THEN U ND DIFERNT THAN U U BIG0TS

HATE U ALL
Y DONT U DIE
U NEVR LIKED ME
U NEVAR TRIED
THESE TINGS U SAY
CRAWL IN MY HED
U MAKE ME WISH
DAT I WAZ DEAD
U TREAT ME BAD
JUST BCUZ IM ME
DIS DEMONIC BEUTY
U JUST DONT C
I DID NOTHING WRONG
JUST H8 U ALL
THIS POEM DOSENT RYME
DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN ALWAYS WIN! Unless you don't root for the mastiff.

quote:

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This one time, at Kegwen camp:
Laf. I'm the complete loser here. I'm quite aware of that.

They think we're pathetic, we think they're pricks. It's a hate-hate relationship. It all works out.

Mind you, not all popular people are assholes. It just seems that the vast majority of them tend to be, especially through high school, simply for the contentment that they get from making their friends laugh.

Heh... the guy whose friends are all at least one year younger than him being anything BUT a loser... What a concept...

Sorry I came off wrong on certain aspects, but I'm basing my flames off of one potential aspect of the desperate search for popularity, and apparently less people follow that path than I thought.

---

High school is a particularly intense arena when discussing normative behavior.

There are many causes, but it boils down to a bunch of people trying to explore who they are and who they want to be, prodded by an unholy mix of hormones, angst, and sexual awakening. Not the best case study, in other words.

On the other hand, "who you are," is not set in concrete by that point. By any means. Largely, fitting in is a matter of choice, and it's even possible to fit in across multiple groups. That's harder, though.

While YMMV is always an appropriate caveat, the major points remain.

quote:

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Black Mage had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Ruyven.

---

...You... Spelled... My name... Wrong...

*Twitch twitch*

Kegwen: She was like "FLAEM FLAEM FLAEM" and I aws like "you sux" and she's like "FUCK OFF FLAEM!!!111" and i'm like "Love the title."

quote:

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How.... Kegwen.... uughhhhhh:
Mind you, not all popular people are assholes. It just seems that the vast majority of them tend to be, especially through high school, simply for the contentment that they get from making their friends laugh.

---

I can only think of one popular person at my high school that isn't an asshole.
All the rest are fuckchops, crackheads, drug dealers, theives, liars, or fuckers like like running around getting into fights.

quote:

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Willias was listening to Cher while typing:
I can only think of one popular person at my high school that isn't an asshole.
All the rest are fuckchops, crackheads, drug dealers, theives, liars, or fuckers like like running around getting into fights.

---

I go to a private school, the ratio is cut down quite a bit.

Alternative schools > Regular high schools

quote:

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Eisuye's account was hax0red to write:
Ahem.

Alternative schools > Regular high schools

---

Not all of us have that choice > OMG LOOK A BUNNY RABBIT

Uh, point to where I said "always" or "everyone," like I asked.

You quoted the passage, and it's just not there.

If you'd bothered to read my reply, you'd have noted where I said there are, of course, exceptions.

If you're so hot for 100% accuracy, though, feel free to cite a social case study that applies to everyone, all the time. I'll shut up, then.

To discuss social issues like that one, some level of generalization is necessary. Hence my talk of "norming." It refers to the Bell curve ubiquitous in statistical analysis. It's just not practical to base one's theory on the behaviors of those more than a couple of standard deviations from the norm.

In short: while you are correct that not every case fits my analogy, I maintain that many more do than not. Your individual experience is exactly balanced by mine. Now can we discuss general, rather than specific behaviors?

The Utopian society you seem to advocate cannot exist. Even were such a thing possible, your methods will not bring it about.

Nor, as I've said several times, is this question the issue. The issue is your unwillingness to let go of a petty grudge, and your willingness to engage in every one of the behaviors you claim to despise, yet still claim some kind of moral high ground.

In essence, you're shouting, "I'm an idiot, but it's in a good cause!"

I don't buy that argument.