Not many cheerleaders dated jocks, though. It was mostly the girls as stupid as the jocks that dated those.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
So wait...Sage, I'm genuinely curious here, no flames or anything, honest.
You REALLY think that everyone that gets picked on in school is of their own fault? Wow. Just Wow. Forgive some people for not wanting to play sports, thus not "fitting in". From what it sounds, please tell me if I'm wrong, you're saying that, if you don't fit in, it's YOUR fault you're getting picked on?... 
quote:
Willias's account was hax0red to write:
I can only think of one popular person at my high school that isn't an asshole.
All the rest are fuckchops, crackheads, drug dealers, theives, liars, or fuckers like like running around getting into fights.
Bullshit.
I'm sure they'd say exactly the same thing about you.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Kloie had this to say about Captain Planet:
Not all of us have that choice > OMG LOOK A BUNNY RABBIT
That is why, when I take over the world, things will be different. Non-conformist but slightly fruity education for all!
If you had said some people that get picked are because they don't try to fit in, I wouldn't have a problem with what you said. Are you willing to concede that your blanket statement isn't entirely correct?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Bloodsage was all like:
Bullshit.I'm sure they'd say exactly the same thing about you.
No offense, but as somebody who was attempting to make the same argument...
You don't have both sides of the story to make such judgements. Today, drugs make you cool. Beating up weaker people has always made you cool. It shows your basic primate instincts haven't abandoned you. 
As for the issue of fitting in and so on, I'll readily agree that if one decides to go after one's own interests without really worrying about what others like as well, then they shouldn't be suprised if not many others take an interest in their activities. If you don't care about what most others are interested in, then of course you're not going to be welcomed as a friend to groups that have those interests.
However, I don't think someone is wrong to expect a certain level of decency about the whole thing. Sure, don't whine if you're not invited to the popular table if you don't take an interest in what they like, but at the same time, they've got no right to run up and break your arm simply because you're passive, and like to read a lot. The same goes for verbal attacks. You've got no right to demand acceptance, but they've got no right to randomly insult you at varied opportunites simply because you have different interests. Unless someone's interests are particuarly disruptive to others, there's really no reason that someone should be outright attacked for them, rather than just left on their own.
I think the problem is that Bloodsage is talking about issues of acceptance, while those on the other side are talking about outright bullying. Both exist, and both can show up a lot in school situations. There's a big difference between the two.
And for the record, yes, I was picked on in school, and no, I don't think of the popular crowd as a group of idiots. [ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Chalesm ]
In the beginning the Universe was created.Douglas Adams, 1952-2001
quote:
Kegwen thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
No offense, but as somebody who was attempting to make the same argument...You don't have both sides of the story to make such judgements. Today, drugs make you cool. Beating up weaker people has always made you cool. It shows your basic primate instincts haven't abandoned you.
Yeah, no offense, but how long have you been out of High School?
quote:
The Otaku Penguin wrote this stupid crap:
Wait....that doesn't make sense.So wait...Sage, I'm genuinely curious here, no flames or anything, honest.
You REALLY think that everyone that gets picked on in school is of their own fault? Wow. Just Wow. Forgive some people for not wanting to play sports, thus not "fitting in". From what it sounds, please tell me if I'm wrong, you're saying that, if you don't fit in, it's YOUR fault you're getting picked on?...
I didn't say it was true in all cases.
I do think it's true more often than not, though, especially at that age.
It's simply human nature to form communities based on interest. "Who you are," in the sense folks seem to use it here, doesn't matter nearly as much as what you do. Fit in? Groovey. Don't fit in? At best, you're ignored, at worst harassed.
And I find it really funny how many people say how awful it is to pick on others, and that no one has any right to look down on someone because they have different interests, yet it's okay to slam "jocks" as a group.
It's not okay to slam Freschel for being incompetent with simple tasks like spelling and grammar, but it's okay to call jocks stupid, and look down on them?
How does that compute?
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Punky Brewster:
It's not okay to slam Freschel for being incompetent with simple tasks like spelling and grammar, but it's okay to call jocks stupid, and look down on them?How does that compute?
I can't wait to see Lyinar's response to this.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Bloodsage said:
I didn't say it was true in all cases.I do think it's true more often than not, though, especially at that age.
It's simply human nature to form communities based on interest. "Who you are," in the sense folks seem to use it here, doesn't matter nearly as much as what you do. Fit in? Groovey. Don't fit in? At best, you're ignored, at worst harassed.
And I find it really funny how many people say how awful it is to pick on others, and that no one has any right to look down on someone because they have different interests, yet it's okay to slam "jocks" as a group.
It's not okay to slam Freschel for being incompetent with simple tasks like spelling and grammar, but it's okay to call jocks stupid, and look down on them?
How does that compute?
Never dissed jocks, look to someone else, I was just genuinely curious.
PS: Sage, go see Spider-Man, it rocks! =p
quote:
Lyinar said this about your mom:
Then you renege your statement that people that get picked on have done something to not fit in? You didn't say some. You said people that get picked on, implying anyone that gets picked on.If you had said some people that get picked are because they don't try to fit in, I wouldn't have a problem with what you said. Are you willing to concede that your blanket statement isn't entirely correct?
Did you bother to read the my last post on page 5, or are you simply attempting some rhetorical shennanigans?
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
The Otaku Penguin's account was hax0red to write:
Never dissed jocks, look to someone else, I was just genuinely curious.PS: Sage, go see Spider-Man, it rocks! =p
I know that wasn't you; I was just tying my response in with the rest of the thread.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
I know jocks now in college. They're great people. They're smart, nice, very friendly, and they play sports. It was just the ones in my school that were like that. My school was entirely too concerned with sports, although we had a healthy medium. Sports were important, but there was enough of an intelligent group that brains were respected, too.
As I have stated before as well. I never treated them differently. I didn't actively seek out their company, but I didn't mock them for it, either. I was a tutor my senior year. I had jocks come in. I treated them no differently than anyone else that came in. It just annoyed me to see my classes held back because of the jocks that couldn't or wouldn't understand things. So I had my personal opinions, and they did not reflect on my outward treatment of them.
And Chal has it. I never expected anyone to be like me, or accept me into their circle. I just wanted the same courtesy I showed them. To be left alone.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
How does that compute?
It's simple. Grab a calculator, make it compute 1 divided by x where x = 0, grab a thermometre, and watch the temperature rise.
Where am I going with this? I don't rightly know. Will we find out? I don't know. Am I stoned? Probably not. Will I ever stop it with these damned questions? I don't know. Will we find ou-
*Ruvyen is promptly shot.*
quote:
Chalesm lit a little light over his head, then said:
I think the problem is that Bloodsage is talking about issues of acceptance, while those on the other side are talking about outright bullying. Both exist, and both can show up a lot in school situations. There's a big difference between the two.
You are correct.
Nowhere did I condone bullying.
This discussion isn't about what happened in that other thread, or an appropriate place to whine about being picked on in school.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
So since that's cleared up, we apppear to have the same opinion. We don't agree with bullying, with torment for no reason. And that's what I was pointing out with my examples.
I do agree with you that those that actively seek to be different shouldn't expect to be part of things. I still don't, however, agree they should be ridiculed for it. I think they should just be left to be who they are, so long as it doesn't impede on anyone else. Have a personal opinion of someone, that's fine. But it's not always necessary to act on it.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Bloodsage thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
I didn't say it was true in all cases.
But it came across that way to many people, including myself. If you didn't mean that, then you should have said "some" at the beginning. If you have a section at the end of the post that says that there are exceptions, then that does work, but not as well. Because the reader went through your entire "essay" thinking that you meant everyone until the end.
quote:
I do think it's true more often than not, though, especially at that age.
It may be true, it may not. But, what the original topic was, concerning Lyinars posts, was Parce flaming Freschel. Now, Parce's flames go far beyond just simply not accepting.
quote:
It's simply human nature to form communities based on interest. "Who you are," in the sense folks seem to use it here, doesn't matter nearly as much as what you do. Fit in? Groovey. Don't fit in? At best, you're ignored, at worst harassed.
I don't mind being Ignored. If I'm harassed then I believe that I have a right to complain, or "bitch" about it.
quote:
And I find it really funny how many people say how awful it is to pick on others, and that no one has any right to look down on someone because they have different interests, yet it's okay to slam "jocks" as a group.
They shouldn't slam Jocks. I was a Semi-Jock. I swam and threw Shot-put in high school.
quote:
It's not okay to slam Freschel for being incompetent with simple tasks like spelling and grammar, but it's okay to call jocks stupid, and look down on them?
Calling Jocks stupid is a stereotype, and a very untrue one these days in many cases. It is not right to say so. Now, it would be proper to say something along the lines of "In my experience, all of the Jocks that I have met are Stupid." Because that is relatively true.
quote:
How does that compute?
It doesn't.
Archers Roxxors!
Basically, the jocks at my high school were stupid, didn't apply themselves, did numbskull things, and held us back in classes we had to suffer having them in because they had requirements to keep playing that had to be met.
I seem to remember many times in the "I hate jocks" thread that I made it clear it was jocks in my school, that I had met and had to deal with. Not all jocks.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
Actually, this discussion wasn't about the other thread.
As a matter of fact, it's in very poor taste to keep harping on things, and creating crises just to feed a pet rock.
Since Lyinar has already apologized for that, I'm stating it for your benefit as a relative newbie here. The other discussion is over; it died with the locked thread. If it happens again, feel free to re-open it.
Until then, however, it's best to leave it alone.
[ 05-03-2002: Message edited by: Bloodsage ]
Add: On the other issue, I had thought to give people credit for realizing no discussion of social behavior can apply to every single case, and that it's only reasonable to discuss norms (in the statistical sense). Guess I was wrong.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Bloodsage Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Add: On the other issue, I had thought to give people credit for realizing no discussion of social behavior can apply to every single case, and that it's only reasonable to discuss norms (in the statistical sense). Guess I was wrong.
Yeah. When I got over myself and realized that, I dropped out.
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
vertueActually, this discussion wasn't about the other thread.
Well, it seemed to be to me. If it wasn't about that, then what was it about?
quote:
As a matter of fact, it's in very poor taste to keep harping on things, and creating crises just to feed a pet rock.
What do you mean by feed a pet rock? I have never heard that before. Sometimes harping on things is the only way to change something. Just ask Martin Luther King Jr.
quote:
Since Lyinar has already apologized for that, I'm stating it for your benefit as a relative newbie here. The other discussion is over; it died with the locked thread. If it happens again, feel free to re-open it.
Ok. I'm just not sure if this is completely about just one thread. That thread has died, true, but is the arguement actually resolved?
quote:
Until then, however, it's best to leave it alone.
I will take your advice and leave it alone. For now.
quote:
Add: On the other issue, I had thought to give people credit for realizing no discussion of social behavior can apply to every single case, and that it's only reasonable to discuss norms (in the statistical sense). Guess I was wrong.
Yes, I guess your were wrong. It's ok though, I forgive you. 
The arguement/discussion in this thread concerning whatever it was about is hereby officially over.
Anyone who brings it up again without really, really, really good cause in this threat will be Trangressecuted.
On a more serious note, I doubt that this will be the last time that there is a discussion about Parcelan insulting people.
Archers Roxxors!
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
/shudder5.0 from the French judge!
Dammit! It was a setup! The Russians put her up to it! I protest!!! I want a gold medal too!!!!
*snickers* couldn't resist
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
j/k Deli
Isn't this true? Kegwen, don't you 'fit in' with your current group of friends?
Lyinar, didn't you have a friend in high school?
I'de hazard a guess that none of you had no friends or someone you could talk to in school.
As 'Sage said, people group by interest. Football is a (lot easier/takes less time/is more common) to get into than to than getting into the Episode #452 of the lastest Anime or programming C++. To watch football, turn the TV on on Sunday. Its not hard to find information about, or talk to people about. Anime or prgramming or something like that is harder. You have to spend a lot of time learning about it, or read about it a lot. Also, Anime and programming programs can cost quite a bit more money than a TV, which most families have. Therefore, you can assume that the "group" of people who enjoy football (By playing, being addicted to, watching, or just have a mild interest) is going to be larger than the "group" of people who enjoy (By watching, being addicted to, or watching it at a friends every now and then) Cowboy Bebop. If you wanted to have a larger base of friends, start liking football. If that isn't your thing, thats cool, it doesn't mean you don't fit in, it just means you don't hang out with the larger number of kids who enjoy football.
If that doesn't make any sense at all, just ignore it.
I don't want to fit in with the largest amount of people, I want to fit in with people of similar interests. And, if possible, I'd like those people to be decent human beings as well. I've been blessed with one exceptional human being, who is my best friend...
I'm happy with my situation friend-wise, at the moment.
What I was describing was bullying. I was bullied in grade school and junior high for no other reason than being smart (And in kindergarten because I didn't have hair). It wasn't a matter of people didn't include me, it was a matter of people harrassed me and I didn't do anything to warrant it. They just did it because for whatever reason they decided they didn't like me.
I did have friends in those grades, mostly other people that were bullied like that.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
How.... Kegwen.... uughhhhhh:
Yeah.I don't want to fit in with the largest amount of people, I want to fit in with people of similar interests. And, if possible, I'd like those people to be decent human beings as well. I've been blessed with one exceptional human being, who is my best friend...
I'm happy with my situation friend-wise, at the moment.
See? Just because you don't hang out with the "popular kids" doesn't mean you don't have any friends (This statement isn't just about you, Keggy ). I don't hang out with the popular kids. I hang out with the guys who play soccer, or used too. Its because I used too, and I know them all. Most of them are great guys, but there are still a few assheads. There are in any social group.
Why was it okay for Freschel to be treated like that?
Understandable? Maybe.
Predictable? Definately.
quote:
When some idiot who can't sing steps up to the mike at a karaoke bar, and displays his incompetence for everyone, he becomes a laughing stock. Why? Because if you can't sing, you should avoid microphones.Similarly with grammar.
The thing is, at a karaoke bar, you have to listin to the person singing.
Thanks to Microsoft's amazing built in BACK button, you don't have to read stupid posts.
I don't care for many of Parc's posts or any other posts, but I don't flame them.
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It's perfectly okay to rag on your friends, yet not permit strangers to do the same thing. It's that community thing at work.
Wasn't that the point of the last thread? Now you're getting contradictory.
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Oh, look!
It's Captain Pussywhipped and the I-must-support-Lyinar-or-I-might-not-get-any essay! What a surprise!
quote:
Main Entry: bigĀ·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t - a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
quote:
Oh, goody! More mindless bigotry!
Just explaining what BM was saying.
I find in my high school at least, that there are 3 main groups of people. Preps, Normal (if such a thing can be said) and Goths. The spectrum, maestro.
code:*Prep*
Club members
Pep Rally People v
Cheerleaders v v
|Prep| |----|----|----|-------| |Normal|
Jocks ^
Club leaders n such---------------
*Normal*
Average
Pop. People v Gamers
|Prep| |----|----|----|----| |Goth|
Lackeys ^
Geeks**Geeks/nerds can be shifted about.
-----------
*Goth*
Goth
Anti-Prep** v Anti-social
|Normal| |----|----|----|----| |Goth|
Freak ^
Outcast
** Me.
Wheeeeeee! [ 05-04-2002: Message edited by: Tegadil ]
[edit: Made it prettier.]
I'm guessing 15
quote:
Mr. Duck had this to say about Pirotess:
anyone want to make a bet on how many more post there will be, till thread is locked?I'm guessing 15
3, er, 2.
