quote:
Originally posted by Pesco:
Pesco looks around...I.. was involved
Malbi.. was involved
Azymyth.. was involved
Aeadil... was involved
Khyron.. was involved
Lash / Allaire / Toktuk / A Few Others.. were involvedSeveral of the people in this post... were NOT involved.... And you brought into a whole different arguement, and the previous one never got resolved. Instead it just got rerouted into a new arguement, by the remarks of one.
Um..yeah. That's what I was saying. 
quote:
Originally posted by Densetsu the pet MONKey:
Um..yeah. That's what I was saying.
I know... Just giving people a picture of it.
But I certainly don't need to "get a room" to hash it out with anyone. Get your own hash; and dont assume that I have a problem with someone when I dont.
The things Im saying aren't directed at any one person, they are directed at the crowd.
I think the largest problem, and I even saw people coming right out and saying this in their posting in this thread is this:
"I didn't even read this thread, but you all suck. Stop complaining and stop being an asshole."
How can anyone really comment here, telling other people what to say, what to do, if they haven't really even read what the problems are and what people are trying to say?
That's all I really have to say anymore.
Bottom line is, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to continue reading it.
quote:
Originally posted by Pesco:
I know... Just giving people a picture of it.
hehe, yeah, some people have to have it explained several different ways
Yes, I agree that Drysart handles the altering of Malbi's post.. but I also disagree with Ly's method of handling the situation and lashing out at him directly.. she's been in the same type of argument with him and it's redundant.
Lia: Argueing with Drys solves nothing. If you're trying to prove a point it's been proven. People have chosen their factions.. people will forever disagree.. It's his board.. not his community.. but his board.
(Edited out.. Pesco is a pretty good guy.. something just shot me off at the moment and Pesco and I discussed it.. my apologies.)
Peachis: Let Drysart defend himself if he wants to, he does a good job at it in his way. You are not his advocate.
Malbi screwed up.. he took things too far and overstepped his boundaries. That's his fault.. it's who he is, or probably is. Banning him will not matter.. if enough people dislike him.. they're gonna force him out anyway. Why banning him was even mentioned, I have no idea..
No, I do not like threads titled, "I'm gone for good!".. they should be ridiculed and dealt with in extremist manners.. they're annoying.. if yer leaving.. tell yer friends on the board and if anybody asks about you.. well.. everybody will know eventually.
I think that about covers what I've been feeling to the main people on this thread.. that i've had a problem with.. so umm.. yeah.. I'm gone.
If yer gonna defend yerself.. oh.. please do.. because honestly.. I could seriously care less.
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: LeMiere ]
quote:
Originally posted by Peachis:
Ooo my turn. Fuck off LeMiere.
Yeah.. exactly. Well founded arguement, Peachis. Nice use of expressive ways to point out the flaws in what I've said. Love how you avoided blatantly cursing at me or something..
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: LeMiere ]
EXTREEEEEEEME ARGUING!
goes off to get some popcorn!
You're talking to hear yourself bitch.
That's productive.
If I choose to defend my views, I'll defend them. If I choose to reply to your comment directed at me, I'll defend myself.
quote:
Originally posted by Peachis:
And by "why are you still posting" I mean; why, if you don't care what we have to say to defend ourselves should we even give a shit to what you said about us in the first place?You're talking to hear yourself bitch.
That's productive.
Ahh yes.. and you weren't defending yourself.. you made an offensive comment towards me.. which.. of course wasn't very offensive because it was a weak way to defend yourself. *cough* So.. using your way of thinking and your logic, why are responding? If I just walked off and said, "I'm not going to respond" I'd be showing that my views aren't worth defending. I'd be saying that my observations are not credible enough to stick up for them against people such as yourself.
quote:
Originally posted by Arrenn Lightblade:
/agree with lem.
Arrenn.. you don't have to go agreeing whole heartedly.. I mean.. if there's anything you don't agree with, please don't say you agree with me.. it might go against you when you didn't mean it.. reread it in case you overlooked something. My views aren't all compiled as the views of everyone else..
So there. I love you, byebye!
For dinner, I had a Jack-In-The-Box Ultimate Cheeseburger with a side of fries.
Good for me!
quote:
Originally posted by Parcelan:
I am going to enjoy this immensely! Peachis vs. Lemmy! Blonde vs. Blonde!EXTREEEEEEEME ARGUING!
goes off to get some popcorn!
*sets up the ticket booth/betting table and puts on his bookies' little green hat
$5 per ticket and odds are 5:1 LeM
I am dealing with a "Malbi Like" Issue IRL.. RIGHT NOW! My little sister was being sexually harrassed by a guy, and he ended up exposing himself to her. He is working the system right now trying to get off scot-free. He is treatening my family, attempting to get my little brother thrown in jail for revenge because he is the best target because he has a *very known* case of A.D.D. and is very hyperactive. Do you see why know I feel so much on this issue... Do you understand THAT THIS HITS HOME?!
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Pesco ]
Yeah, looks like we need an air strike to eliminate the thread. Confirmed, use all available ammunition.
*listens for a moment*
Yes sir, I request the role of The Guy That Rides The Bomb... thank you sir
*jets begin to fly towards the thread*
1. Malbi and his misbehavior. Malbi screwed up bigtime. And at some point I'm going to have a few words with him about what he did and didn't say to Lyinar. But I'm going to wait until I'm not bristling with anger to do so. Malbi attempted to escape this situation by leaving and violating a message board rule. Drysart editted his post.
Drysart did not, however, ban Malbi as he said he would in cases where people turned a thread into an attention-grabbing cry. Malbi didn't even wait a page before rescinding his "I'm leaving" statement. In my opinion if you do something boneheaded like breaking a rule in the heat of the moment, you should be punished. In this case, were I Drysart, I would have banned Malbi if only for a day or two. Drysart decided not to. His boards, his choice. He should neither be acclaimed nor penalized for not banning Malbi.
However, Drysart took one step further. He made a snide comment. Whether Malbi had it coming to him or not is in the eye of the reader. Their opinion on whether it was funny or not funny is something Drysart, nor ANY OF YOU can regulate. The most sizeable thing Drysart can do is ban someone. Even that doesn't change the person's opinion; it just limits the venues they can express their opinion in. In effect it's him deciding he doesn't want to see or acknowledge an opinion.
Now then...where do the rest of us fit in? Well, we've all got opinions. We can no more enforce our opinion on others (that is to say, force our point of view on others in such a way as to make our opinion their's) than Drysart could force his opinion on us.
We can, however, voice our opinion in a majority rule situation. If the majority of people feel a certain way about a certain subject, then there is going to be a change in general community tone. You don't have to be a party of the majority. The nice thing is you can be some extremist outsider and things still work.
The question is...why are you responding? Are you responding to the subject at hand? Or are you responding just to respond? I think all too often, it's like bugs on a rotting piece of meat. There's a constant buzz of small bug activity, but there are a few big beetles (like Toktuk) who feel that if they disagree with something, man they have to go at it with both barrels. And it's not JUST Toktuk (he was just a convenient example). And of course, the bottom line is that everyone's entitled to air their opinion. Lyinar thought Drys was being immature. Tok thinks Lyinar's out to be angry at Drys. Of course it's easier to get support if you can make Lyinar out to be some sort of oppressive dictatorial force who doesn't want you to disagree, but the fact is all of us have opinions and none of us want anyone to disagree. To make a long story short, everyone has the right to bitch and complain. No-one has the right to try and force someone else to stop that complaint process.
That having been said...and my moderate golves now being doffed...Let me say a few things.
Tok, don't try to make yourself come off as some sort of beleagured, unappreciated veteran by saying things like "Oh I see, you kids only like me when I'm fighting for something you agree with. Heaven forbid I argue about something when you don't want me to." Not once have I seen you arguing on anyone's behalf aside from your own, and your own point of view seems to be solely dedicated to escalating situations. What, exactly, has that EVER accomplished? I've seen no great resolutions coming from your approach to things. You've got a right to your opinion, but don't try and disguise it in any way by alluding that you're trying to make things better. You're not put upon, you haven't been betrayed by anyone. You're an escalation expert. You like to make incendiary comments. Stand up for what seems to be your REAL opinion on things, and just say "I'm escalating things because I like to see fighting."
As for you, Peachis, you're right. We're not moderators. We're not administrators. We're not you, we're not Drysart. And yes, they ARE Drysart's boards. When he's dead tired of this, he'll start handing out punishments.
Pesco "...was rerouted by the comments of one" Boo f'ing hoo. If your point about Malbi hadn't been made by the time Lyinar made her comment, when WAS it going to be made? Yeesh. I am, however, sorry that a sexual harassment situation is being inflicted on your sis. Guy harassed my mom at her job and it pissed me off. And for the record, I've never seen Pesco in the Sorcery.net channel misuse his ops. If you have, send me a log and I'll rectify the situation.
I'm starting to ramble. Time for shut down.
Shuts down the filibuster machine
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Originally posted by Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael:
Pesco "...was rerouted by the comments of one" Boo f'ing hoo. If your point about Malbi hadn't been made by the time Lyinar made her comment, when WAS it going to be made? Yeesh. I am, however, sorry that a sexual harassment situation is being inflicted on your sis. Guy harassed my mom at her job and it pissed me off. And for the record, I've never seen Pesco in the Sorcery.net channel misuse his ops. If you have, send me a log and I'll rectify the situation.
Actually I didnt have time to make my point really... All I got time to do was respond to Mortious' post on the banning thing, in which I originally explained what has, is, and will happen. After that... I sort of had to work 
then Lyinar made her comment, so yea, 2 arguments split from 1.
1. OMFG, Pesco like, totally abuses his power... He's a freaking Op-Nazi (That term rolls from your tongue surprisingly well... Hrm, say it out loud, seriously, LOL)... He kicks me all the time, for no reason. And then he laughs! He laughs till her turns blue!
2. What Deth said.
quote:
Originally posted by Lashanna:
1. OMFG, Pesco like, totally abuses his power... He's a freaking Op-Nazi (That term rolls from your tongue surprisingly well... Hrm, say it out loud, seriously, LOL)... He kicks me all the time, for no reason. And then he laughs! He laughs till her turns blue!
hey... HEY!!
I dont do that! ...
I laugh til I turn purple
quote:
Originally posted by Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael:
Tok, don't try to make yourself come off as some sort of beleagured, unappreciated veteran by saying things like "Oh I see, you kids only like me when I'm fighting for something you agree with. Heaven forbid I argue about something when you don't want me to." Not once have I seen you arguing on anyone's behalf aside from your own, and your own point of view seems to be solely dedicated to escalating situations. What, exactly, has that EVER accomplished? I've seen no great resolutions coming from your approach to things. You've got a right to your opinion, but don't try and disguise it in any way by alluding that you're trying to make things better. You're not put upon, you haven't been betrayed by anyone. You're an escalation expert. You like to make incendiary comments. Stand up for what seems to be your REAL opinion on things, and just say "I'm escalating things because I like to see fighting."
I wasn't arguing for them, don't try to put words in my mouth. I was arguing against Malbi because I thought what he did was wrong. I don't fight over something I don't believe in.
The problem is people, like Lem, are perfectly okay with the way I am provided that I'm arguing on their side. Some people's tolerance of my ranting seems directly tied to whether I'm on their side or not. That's a fairly chicken shit approach to take. Either your okay with my ranting, or your not. Get in or out, don't half ass.
Second of all, I like to debate, fine. I'm a ranter. Wooo, you've found my hidden secret. That doesn't mean I start fights just because I like to see people fight. Do you really think I sit around all day stirring up trouble just to watch it happen? My life is entirely too busy for me to do that, even if I wanted to. Which I don't. That's the most laughable opinion I've seen from you in a long time.
Not only that, I'm rarely a fire starter. Like Pesco said, Lyinar was the first to flame, but I'm the one who gets shit on. And I wasn't even the first to reply. The difference is I just yell louder than everyone else. Your crucifying me to be a huge bad guy in this, but I'm not the only one doing the fighting. Hell, Peachis and Lem have made more comments on this issue than me, I haven't even made a reply ON THIS PAGE, but you guys still manage to find ways to bitch at me for what I do. Try to show a little less bias or something.
-Tok
quote:
Originally posted by Delidgamond:
quote:
Originally posted by Toktuk:
I wasn't arguing for them, don't try to put words in my mouth. I was arguing against Malbi because I thought what he did was wrong. I don't fight over something I don't believe in.The problem is people, like Lem, are perfectly okay with the way I am provided that I'm arguing on their side. Some people's tolerance of my ranting seems directly tied to whether I'm on their side or not. That's a fairly chicken shit approach to take. Either your okay with my ranting, or your not. Get in or out, don't half ass.
Second of all, I like to debate, fine. I'm a ranter. Wooo, you've found my hidden secret. That doesn't mean I start fights just because I like to see people fight. Do you really think I sit around all day stirring up trouble just to watch it happen? My life is entirely too busy for me to do that, even if I wanted to. Which I don't. That's the most laughable opinion I've seen from you in a long time.
Not only that, I'm rarely a fire starter. Like Pesco said, Lyinar was the first to flame, but I'm the one who gets shit on. And I wasn't even the first to reply. The difference is I just yell louder than everyone else. Your crucifying me to be a huge bad guy in this, but I'm not the only one doing the fighting. Hell, Peachis and Lem have made more comments on this issue than me, I haven't even made a reply ON THIS PAGE, but you guys still manage to find ways to bitch at me for what I do. Try to show a little less bias or something.
-Tok
Wow Tok.. looks like you decided to even directly judge my opinions on the matter.. thanks. Ya see Toktuk, I was against Malbi before you were in the picture.. Aeadil told me what happened, Kloie had mentioned something, and his behavior in the channel was rediculous. Have I once all out agreed with you? I don't believe so. I've been against you and your wonderful ability to voice your opinions reguardless of other people's feelings for quite some time. Such as how you handled Turlis and his business. You decided to try and make a fool out of him with your beliefs, sure, you apologized, but the fact stands.. you tend to jump at people right off the bat without any incentive.
You want to accuse me of following your lead? Go ahead, I can't really prove that I didn't unless you asked some of my friends on the board. No.. you did not at all sway my opinion of Malbi. And i have not had more comments on the issue of Ly vs. Drys if that's what you were referring to. When I conversed with Peachis that was directed at her, solely. Are you really going to tally it? `Deth is much better at arguing that you are, Tok.. cuz he actually can finish it off without a biased view. So go ahead, believe what you want.. I thought you calmed down with your apology to Turlis.. and because I agree with a statement you make against someone else does not mean I agree with you. Why do you think I told Arrenn not to whole-heartedly agree with me?
(Okay.. so i did happen to agree with Tok in my first post.. whatever..)
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: LeMiere ]
quote:
Originally posted by LeMiere:
Wow Tok.. looks like you decided to even directly judge my opinions on the matter.. thanks. Ya see Toktuk, I was against Malbi before you were in the picture.. Aeadil told me what happened, Kloie had mentioned something, and his behavior in the channel was rediculous. Have I once all out agreed with you? I don't believe so. I've been against you and your wonderful ability to voice your opinions reguardless of other people's feelings for quite some time. Such as how you handled Turlis and his business. You decided to try and make a fool out of him with your beliefs, sure, you apologized, but the fact stands.. you tend to jump at people right off the bat without any incentive.You want to accuse me of following your lead? Go ahead, I can't really prove that I didn't unless you asked some of my friends on the board. No.. you did not at all sway my opinion of Malbi. And i have not had more comments on the issue of Ly vs. Drys if that's what you were referring to. When I conversed with Peachis that was directed at her, solely. Are you really going to tally it? `Deth is much better at arguing that you are, Tok.. cuz he actually can finish it off without a biased view. So go ahead, believe what you want.. I thought you calmed down with your apology to Turlis.. and because I agree with a statement you make against someone else does not mean I agree with you. Why do you think I told Arrenn not to whole-heartedly agree with me?
(Okay.. so i did happen to agree with Tok in my first post.. whatever..)
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: LeMiere ]
I've been yelling at Malbi long before you ever did. In fact, I think you've told me to leave him alone in the past. I've predicted he was going to do something like this all along, it's just no one believed me.
And Deth can't touch me, not even close. You say he can finish an argument without being biased, read his last statement. Sounds damn biased to me, the fact that he tried to go on the offensive at me. It was a weak attempt, but he still tried to throw statements directly at me.
What's wrong with taking a stand on an issue, anyway? Are you trying to say that it's wrong for me to choose one side or the other and then defend it? There isn't anything wrong with that at all, you just don't like my opinions, that's what it really boils down too. I don't agree with you, so you don't like me. That's what I've been trying to say all along. The proof is in the pudding. The only time you guys ever bother to treat me with half an ounce of respect is when you agree with me, otherwise you blast me for being argumentative.
You only like me being argumentative when it conforms with your own opinions. Listen to me when I say this:
I will not ever change. I will always be argumentative. If you don't like that, fine, but your going to have to accept it or your just going to drive yourself crazy. If you think that me being argumentative makes me an evil person, that's fine too, but don't change the way you treat me because I argue on your side. Hate me all the time, or like me all the time. Don't jump back and forth. Your with me or your not. Period.
-Tok
[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Toktuk ]
quote:
Originally posted by Toktuk:
I've been yelling at Malbi long before you ever did. In fact, I think you've told me to leave him alone in the past. I've predicted he was going to do something like this all along, it's just no one believed me.And Deth can't touch me, not even close. You say he can finish an argument without being biased, read his last statement. Sounds damn biased to me, the fact that he tried to go on the offensive at me. It was a weak attempt, but he still tried to throw statements directly at me.
What's wrong with taking a stand on an issue, anyway? Are you trying to say that it's wrong for me to choose one side or the other and then defend it? There isn't anything wrong with that at all, you just don't like my opinions, that's what it really boils down too. I don't agree with you, so you don't like me. That's what I've been trying to say all along. The proof is in the pudding. The only time you guys ever bother to treat me with half an ounce of respect is when you agree with me, otherwise you blast me for being argumentative.
You only like me being argumentative when it conforms with your own opinions. Listen to me when I say this:
I will not ever change. I will always be argumentative. If you don't like that, fine, but your going to have to accept it or your just going to drive yourself crazy. If you think that me being argumentative makes me an evil person, that's fine too, but don't change the way you treat me because I argue on your side. Hate me all the time, or like me all the time. Don't jump back and forth. Your with me or your not.
Period.
-Tok
[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Toktuk ]
There is not a single time I've EVER told you to back off Malbi. I don't even remember a single time I've told anyone to back off unless it was both sides violently against eachother.
And no.. I didn't like your first statement against Malbi. That was weak.
I don't care what your opinions consist of.. just the manner you have of presenting them, Toktuk. You are crude in your manner. You have a bad attitude.
And I don't believe you're opinions are wrong.. they're opinions. Your presentation is poor.
And I didn't lash out against Malbi earlier because I didn't know that he was sexually harassing anybody earlier. If I did.. I would have.. I just saw him hovering over the girls in the chat.
Tok, keep argueing.. go ahead. You keep attacking, it's fine with me.
[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: LeMiere ]
quote:
Originally posted by LeMiere:
There is not a single time I've EVER told you to back off Malbi. I don't even remember a single time I've told anyone to back off unless it was both sides against eachother.
Okay, I'm mistaken. But there are those who have felt I shouldn't have yelled at him. Or should of left him alone. Basically, I'm just saying: "In the end, I was right."
quote:
And no.. I didn't like your first statement against Malbi. That was weak.
Why? Because I blasted him? It was the right thing to say at the time, amidst all the pity crap he was recieving.
quote:
I don't care what your opinions consist of.. just the manner you have of presenting them, Toktuk. You are crude in your manner. You have a bad attitude.
Arguing deals with being completely offensive. You can't be passive in an argument and hope to get anywhere. That's why Deth isn't good at arguing (Not that he wants to be, I'm sure), he's entirely too passive. Lyinar is much better than him at that. The problem comes when passive people try to argue with aggressive people like Lyinar and I. You get run over, and you get your feelings hurt. If that's the case, don't try to tangle with people like us.
quote:
And I don't believe you're opinions are wrong.. they're opinions. Your presentation is poor.
My presentation wasn't poor when I was arguing with Mabli, but it was when I was arguing with Lyinar, or even better, you?
quote:
And I didn't lash out against Malbi earlier because I didn't know that he was sexually harassing anybody earlier. If I did.. I would have.. I just saw him hovering over the girls in the chat.
What the hell, are you blind?
quote:
Tok, keep argueing.. go ahead. You keep attacking, it's fine with me.
I will, I always have. Your certainly not anywhere near the point of making me change. I've cooled off lately because I was arguing entirely too much. You even said so yourself. But I get into one big argument and you instantly jump on me. Why aren't you all over anyone else for arguing? It's because you don't like me. Just admit it.
In anycase, if I'm making life so miserable for you around here, get out. Go make your own message board, and comic, and website, and IRC room. And just leave. If you can't stand me, don't stay here.
-Tok
And Deth is good at debate. He's good at summing things up into one well-thought out and nearly emotionless post. That doesn't mean he doesn't make his points well, just that he takes a different approach than you or I do.
Anyway, I'm glad you all are being honest and expressing opinions and such, but maybe we should all just take a step back and breathe for a second, and not be so nasty. I applaud everyone that's been honest, cause honesty is great. The world needs much more of it, in my opinion. But there's a difference between being blunt or honest and being snide.
So please, debate, express opinions. I'm all for that. But just be a little less personal attacks and a little more open on how you view things. I think maybe that might douse the flames a little.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
[/CENTRE]
