For a moment I thought I was reading the official forum 
.
For anyone interested, here's a list of Dire Maul loot to date.
/lurk
quote:
Delphi Aegis had this to say about Tron:
Wait, what?STFU, fae. In two fucking minutes of scrolling through paladin abilities, I found a 110 mana INSTANT CAST SPELL that makes them immune to EVERYTHING IN THE FUCKING GAME (Including spells!
) for 12 seconds.
Five minutes is nothing when they have double our numbers to fall back on.
Edit: For the record, my issue is not that they HAVE the spell, or that it's ridiculously difficult to drain their five lifebars (omg hyperbole!), but the fact that Fae's saying they don't go immune to magic when they quite obviously do.
Check again numbnuts, thats only the one shield, and 12 seconds isnt shit. And any action but running, standing still, or healing the is a waste on the shield. Try harder. Note how I said SHIELDS, not shield. As in, multiples. Also one cancles the other, and the last one cant be used with any other blessing to refute you claims of multiple blessings, or. Oh and turning on that shield doesn't MAGICALLY cancel all your stuns, snares, slows, or DoTs, so pls stfu. None of them do, and Paladins can't remove curses. Dot a Paladin to all hell and they won't MAGICALLY be undotted, shield or not, and correct me if Im wrong but I believe MOST Warlock DoTs last almost (Not just the curses since you can only use one at a time), if not as long, as the Paladin's shield. If you can't chase someone down and kill them in 12 seconds you still suck. Especially with 12 people... And if he was leading you into a group of 50 after only running away for 12 seconds, you would have seen them long before he got to them so dont try and pull the ambush crap. Your team just sucked. And if you REALLY can't kill them in the 5 minutes it takes to refesh you still suck.
You speak a lot of crap about classes you dont even play, and it comes across more as whining because OMG my sucky ass got owned by Class A. Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 03-14-2005 at 05:08 PM.
quote:
Mord was naked while typing this:
/de-lurkFor a moment I thought I was reading the official forum
For anyone interested, here's a list of Dire Maul loot to date.
/lurk
the +agi mail. Finally some nice mail for high level hunters.
quote:
Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Cuba:
Paladins honestly aren't such a huge deal since their DPS was nerfed. They're balanced now, in that their survivability is high, but their DPS is continuing to go right into the ground.Rogues, however, are a problem. Guaranteed kills against casters are a problem. I know they're supposed to be anti-caster, but when you can kill a caster without any chance of reprisal, it goes beyond that. They have a good chance to take out mail classes (which are supposed to be anti-Rogue) with Stunlock (yes Mod, I know you think I must be wrong because I'm Parcelan, but it's happened to me).
Oh no, the yojack stunlock superdps ultraplus build will own all things there are to own in WoW. Stunlock relies on getting the first hit in, getting the first hit in is a massive advantage for any class, a mage, shadow priest, shaman or hunter can put their opponent in serious pain if he catches them unaware, it's not a rogue exclusive ability.
Rogues are not the anti-caster, our main problem class is a caster and every single class is the anti-warlock in solo pvp. Hunters can be a huge pain in the ass with snare traps and let's not get started on shamans and frost shock / earthbind totems, a warrior with overpower and a good 2h can be nasty as well.
One on one gank pvp is utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things anyway and should not have the game balanced around it, in group pvp rogues are pretty average. Mod fucked around with this message on 03-14-2005 at 05:11 PM.
quote:
Mod had this to say about Robocop:
Oh no, the yojack stunlock superdps ultraplus build will own all things there are to own in WoW. Stunlock relies on getting the first hit in, getting the first hit in is a massive advantage for any class, a mage, shadow priest, shaman or hunter can put their opponent in serious pain if he catches you unaware, it's not a rogue exclusive ability.Rogues are not the anti-caster, our main problem class is a caster and every single class is the anti-warlock in solo pvp. Hunters can be a huge pain in the ass with snare traps and let's not get started on shamans and frost shock / earthbind totems, a warrior with overpower and a good 2h can be nasty as well.
One on one gank pvp is utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things anyway and should not have the game balanced around it, in group pvp rogues are pretty average.
Yeah, but how often do Rogues get in the first hit? They're designed to do that.
I wouldn't say that Rogues are average at all. Three of us managed to trip the hell out of Southshore by me running around while two Rogues followed me in stealth. We managed to take out all competition fairly easily (not just one on one).
quote:
Mod loves Parcelan like a fat kid loves cake
They really need to tone down the number of two-hand weapons per dungeon, they are only used by a few classes, most of whom can also effectively use 1h+shield.
...
quote:
From the book of Mr. Parcelan, chapter 3, verse 16:
...
Actually, what Mod says is true. There are far too many 2h weapons.
quote:
Addy had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Actually, what Mod says is true. There are far too many 2h weapons.
Not really. Two-handers are the basis of a Warrior (or maybe Paladin's) soloing. There are no Warriors that use 1h and shield for soloing.
Warriors (and possibly Paladins) are the most gear-dependant class in the game. We need more gear to sustain ourselves. We carry around tons of weapons for whatever occasion we need (sometimes, lots of armor, too).
I think they should just up the items that can be used by the other gear-dependant classes (rogues, hunters, etc).
quote:
Addy said this about your mom:
Actually, what Mod says is true. There are far too many 2h weapons.
I finnaly found out where there is a new set of claws! 
So I am a happy camper, although I love my Stoneraven.
Never got into the whole 2hd Sword/Axe thing. I know must hunters that I am aware of, prefer dual wielding, and the warriors I know prefer 1hd/Shield in most cases (Although Til loves big swords). So yeah there are probably too many, but I dont know the OVERALL preference of people to know which is more prefered by the majority.
quote:
This one time, at Mr. Parcelan camp:
Not really. Two-handers are the basis of a Warrior (or maybe Paladin's) soloing. There are no Warriors that use 1h and shield for soloing.Warriors (and possibly Paladins) are the most gear-dependant class in the game. We need more gear to sustain ourselves. We carry around tons of weapons for whatever occasion we need (sometimes, lots of armor, too).
I think they should just up the items that can be used by the other gear-dependant classes (rogues, hunters, etc).
I dunno, I see a lot of 2H weapons drop and go to greed roll since no one needs them (only uh, two classes I think on Alliance side use 2h weapons, 3 if you count hunters, but they generally stick with green stat 2h or go for Dal'Rend set). I think when you hit 60 and start running the Four (UBRS LBRS Strat Scholo) you'll see what Mod and I mean.
And you're not the only class who does that 
I myself carry around several sets (crit and agility, gonna invest in a dagger set post-patch). Druids and shamans seem to be the ones that *NEED* an equipment manager, just because they're the jack of all trades. Warriors actually get it off pretty easy compared to them.
EDIT: What they need are new staves. I'm sick of seeing those argent crusaders. Addy fucked around with this message on 03-14-2005 at 05:29 PM.
quote:
From the book of Mr. Parcelan, chapter 3, verse 16:
Yeah, but how often do Rogues get in the first hit? They're designed to do that.I wouldn't say that Rogues are average at all. Three of us managed to trip the hell out of Southshore by me running around while two Rogues followed me in stealth. We managed to take out all competition fairly easily (not just one on one).
We are designed to get the first hit but also take a much higher penalty if we don't, there's a tradeoff involved, we are stronger than other classes when we do get the first hit in 1v1, weaker than other classes when we don't. On average we're a very good 1v1 pvp class but not brokenly so.
How many people were you fighting at the same time? Were any of them healers? Were they organized groups or just random people standing around? An organized group of a warrior and two rogues doesn't sound all that great against anything ranged. If you want classes that really shine in group pvp take high survivablilty healers like shamans and paladins or crowd controllers like mages and MC using priests.
As for 2h weapons I'm only going by the amount of rolls I see on 2h weapons my groups get, I've seen lots of 2h users complain that they'd rather have some more unique armor for their classes (especially plate) instead of yet another + 0.7 dps upgrade. Dagger distribution is not great but workable with some problematic dry spots that could use an additional drop or two, maybe throw one at 40% drop on the boss of Dire Maul that is a step below heartseeker but much better than charstone / lifeforce with some decent caster effect to make it non-useless if no rogue wants it, assuming that the mob takes a good group of 60s to take out. Maybe develop the Ravenholdt questline to result in one or two more daggers between 20 and 40. Mod fucked around with this message on 03-14-2005 at 05:38 PM.
quote:
Mod had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Stunlock relies on getting the first hit in
The only time you EVER fight a rogue is when they get the first hit in.
quote:
From the book of Maradon!, chapter 3, verse 16:
The only time you EVER fight a rogue is when they get the first hit in.
Cheapshot can miss you know.
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Alaan wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Cheapshot can miss you know.
Rarely.
quote:
Verily, Mod doth proclaim:
When they have double your number to fall back on they could just rush you with double your number and keep killing you untill they get bored. A situation in which the battle is already so massively lopsided is useless as a point of reference when discussing balance.
Rushing us with double our number ends up with us down two or three people and the lot of them dead or scattered.
quote:One shield that they use exclusively. I have never seen ANY paladin in PvP EVER use ANY other shield. Period.
Faelynn LeAndris stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Check again numbnuts, thats only the one shield, and 12 seconds isnt shit.
quote:
And any action but running, standing still, or healing the is a waste on the shield. Try harder. Note how I said SHIELDS, not shield. As in, multiples. Also one cancles the other, and the last one cant be used with any other blessing to refute you claims of multiple blessings, or.
I never stated that it's possible to do anything productive with the shield on. Read what I said again. And as stated above, I have NEVER ever seen a paladin use any other shield in PvP.
quote:
Oh and turning on that shield doesn't MAGICALLY cancel all your stuns, snares, slows, or DoTs, so pls stfu. None of them do, and Paladins can't remove curses.
Why is it then that *EVERY* time I have a full dot load on a paladin, and that shield goes up.. Every single one of my dots is removed.. Including my curse? Explain it to me, since I am so fucking stupid. I have no idea what I'm talking about, even though I have seen it more times then I can count.
quote:
Dot a Paladin to all hell and they won't MAGICALLY be undotted, shield or not,
Two dots (Immo and corruption) are magic based. I've seen paladins dispel those as fast as I can put them up.
quote:
and correct me if Im wrong but I believe MOST Warlock DoTs last almost (Not just the curses since you can only use one at a time), if not as long, as the Paladin's shield. If you can't chase someone down and kill them in 12 seconds you still suck.
Warlock DoTs last anything from 15 seconds (Immolate) to around 30 seconds (Agony, corruption, 30 and 27). Please tell me how I can kill someone in 30 seconds doing 727 and 1035 with corruption and agony, respectively. Especially when, as a paladin, they generally spec SOMETHING into stamina, and have just as much, if not more HP then I do. It would take me three full dot loads to kill someone with anything more then 3khp, which, tada, unless you are a complete idiot with your stats (Spirit is awesome!) nobody is below.
quote:
Especially with 12 people... And if he was leading you into a group of 50 after only running away for 12 seconds, you would have seen them long before he got to them so dont try and pull the ambush crap. Your team just sucked. And if you REALLY can't kill them in the 5 minutes it takes to refesh you still suck.
The twelve people was an example. By the by, I see a lot of paladins dying, but not before they use that 12 seconds to buy time to heal (completely free of interruptions, btw), then subsequently use LoH to buy a third life-bar.
For the record, I'm absolutely fine with the shield. I like how you abandoned saying that it doesn't make you immune to magic when I linked a shield that specifically states so, however.
quote:
Batty wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Since this is turning into a class balance fight (as all WoW threads seem to...) I introduce you all to the most powerful, most unbalanced class in the game: The Priest. That's right! Paladins, Shamans, Rogues, whatever your current whine is about, forget them! Priests can do it all and never will fear getting a nerf! Turn your class whines around and park them at Priests! Hooray!
Shadowpriests are gods in PvP. >:(
Thankfully, both sides have them. :D
quote:
ACES! Another post by Faelynn LeAndris:
I finnaly found out where there is a new set of claws!So I am a happy camper, although I love my Stoneraven.
Never got into the whole 2hd Sword/Axe thing. I know must hunters that I am aware of, prefer dual wielding, and the warriors I know prefer 1hd/Shield in most cases (Although Til loves big swords). So yeah there are probably too many, but I dont know the OVERALL preference of people to know which is more prefered by the majority.
Til loves big swords because in general the 20-30 extra dps outweighs the advantage an extra 10% physical damage reduction does. Though of course that varies alot on what I'm doing at the time.
quote:
Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about the Spice Girls:
First, thier shields do not protect against Magic, at all. We've had this argument before where Willias tried to claim they were immune until he went and saw for himself.
Pallies have a full immune shield, and a physical immune shield. I could see why warriors want to rip off paladin's arms because they can't do shit to the second invuln. However, as a shaman, I like to think of the second shield as the "Happy Shield".
Why? Because almost every paladin I've ever faught uses it when it's time to run. That or they try to use their second invuln the same way as thier first, and thats when it gets really funny. Earth Shock the paladin and watch them run, follow with purge and point and laugh as every Horde warrior (bunches of warriors on the Horde side) charges into it, with many hordelings trampling over the body. Good fun.
Also, Delphi, where'd you hear that Shaman's purge will no longer have any effect on players? It's probably one of our most powerful class specific abilities, especially in pvp, and I haven't heard anywhere that it would be nerfed.
Willias fucked around with this message on 03-14-2005 at 06:06 PM.
Editx2: Mod, when do rogues NOT get the first hit in? Everytime I fight a rogue, even in duels, they usually get the first hit in, and I die seconds afterwards. THIS IS AS A 58 SHAMAN. Even better, 10 seconds later my brother's 58 warrior, with near 6k armor and 50+% damage reduction IS DEAD TOO. That's overpowered, and what is disgusting, is that I'm finding almost every rogue now wielding a mace in their primary hand, a dagger in their offhand, and are specced specificly to abuse stunlock. Thats a sign of SOMETHING being overpowered.
quote:
From the book of Mod, chapter 3, verse 16:
How many people were you fighting at the same time? Were any of them healers? Were they organized groups or just random people standing around? An organized group of a warrior and two rogues doesn't sound all that great against anything ranged. If you want classes that really shine in group pvp take high survivablilty healers like shamans and paladins or crowd controllers like mages and MC using priests.
To address the other two paragraphs first: As Maradon pointed out, Rogues have a few abilities to guarantee that they don't have to fight unless they get the first hit.
Second: We're comparing weapons. I'd love to have more plate armor, but that's not the point. Warriors need an arsenal to be effective. We need at least one two-handers (oftentimes, I carry two), two one-handers (sometimes three), and a shield (rarely more than one). I think that rogues need more daggers, yeah, since I rarely see a two-dagger Rogue anymore (most, not all, go in for Maces to become a Stunlock Rogue).
Third: We worked insanely well. On our server (not all servers), the Alliance is full of cowards who will attack if they think they have an easy time. I'd run ahead of the two stealthed rogues and get the attention of a mage or other ranged fighter who would follow me back to them and BAM!
Even then, though, we were able to take out groups of four. One Rogue would take out one cloth-caster, one rogue would take out the other, I'd take out the Hunter and everyone would ignore the Paladin until we could all focus on them.
The other last 8 seconds, makes me immune to only physical attacks, and honestly, right at the moment, I can't remember if it wipes off status effects on me already. I want to say it doesn't.
Most of the reason for that is that the only time I use the physical immune shield is fighting rogues or warriors, who don't exactly have a lot of DoT/Debuffs anyway.
On another note, yeah. Paladins have a single spell, costing 60 mana, which cures one poison, one magic and one disease based debuff per casting - the spell doesn't always seem to work, but it works enough. The only thing I've run into that I can't cure is curses - which can be a pain fighting warlocks who have support.
The only other thing I've seen about shields is that I believe you can no longer use them while CC'd - I used to be able to break fear if I had my shield up, and now it doesn't seem to work. The exception appears to be sap. But I haven't PVP'd much lately, so I might be wrong on that.
quote:
Willias had this to say about Pirotess:
Editx2: Mod, when do rogues NOT get the first hit in? Everytime I fight a rogue, even in duels, they usually get the first hit in, and I die seconds afterwards. THIS IS AS A 58 SHAMAN. Even better, 10 seconds later my brother's 58 warrior, with near 6k armor and 50+% damage reduction IS DEAD TOO. That's overpowered, and what is disgusting, is that I'm finding almost every rogue now wielding a mace in their primary hand, a dagger in their offhand, and are specced specificly to abuse stunlock. Thats a sign of SOMETHING being overpowered.
It's not simply a problem with stunlock, but how the entire Rogue class is fucking designed. There are only two real viable builds anymore, and that's a full Backstab/Ambush dagger/stealth Rogue, or a more combat-specced Sinister Strike/Evisc based Rogue.
Obviously one of these uses a dagger mainhand, and the other a mace. Because maces are slow and huge damage, making it choice for SS.
Fix the fucked up DPS model and you'll 'fix' the PVP 'problem'.
It's not something people hear about.
WRONG
to distribute out to where it properly fits.
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Zaeron had this to say about pies:
Just to clarify one thing, paladins do have two different shields. One is twelve second duration, makes me completely immune to literally anything negative, and erases any currently negative effects on me.The other last 8 seconds, makes me immune to only physical attacks, and honestly, right at the moment, I can't remember if it wipes off status effects on me already. I want to say it doesn't.
Most of the reason for that is that the only time I use the physical immune shield is fighting rogues or warriors, who don't exactly have a lot of DoT/Debuffs anyway.
On another note, yeah. Paladins have a single spell, costing 60 mana, which cures one poison, one magic and one disease based debuff per casting - the spell doesn't always seem to work, but it works enough. The only thing I've run into that I can't cure is curses - which can be a pain fighting warlocks who have support.
The only other thing I've seen about shields is that I believe you can no longer use them while CC'd - I used to be able to break fear if I had my shield up, and now it doesn't seem to work. The exception appears to be sap. But I haven't PVP'd much lately, so I might be wrong on that.
Pallies have a 10 second physical invuln, and no, it doesn't remove debuffs.
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Willias had this to say about dark elf butts:
Also, Delphi, where'd you hear that Shaman's purge will no longer have any effect on players? It's probably one of our most powerful class specific abilities, especially in pvp, and I haven't heard anywhere that it would be nerfed.
This was my mistake.. Shammy purge is a hostile effect.. I.E. can only be cast on enemies. So no purging your friend of two negative effects.
quote:
Mr. Parcelan thought about the meaning of life:
To address the other two paragraphs first: As Maradon pointed out, Rogues have a few abilities to guarantee that they don't have to fight unless they get the first hit.Second: We're comparing weapons. I'd love to have more plate armor, but that's not the point. Warriors need an arsenal to be effective. We need at least one two-handers (oftentimes, I carry two), two one-handers (sometimes three), and a shield (rarely more than one). I think that rogues need more daggers, yeah, since I rarely see a two-dagger Rogue anymore (most, not all, go in for Maces to become a Stunlock Rogue).
Third: We worked insanely well. On our server (not all servers), the Alliance is full of cowards who will attack if they think they have an easy time. I'd run ahead of the two stealthed rogues and get the attention of a mage or other ranged fighter who would follow me back to them and BAM!
Even then, though, we were able to take out groups of four. One Rogue would take out one cloth-caster, one rogue would take out the other, I'd take out the Hunter and everyone would ignore the Paladin until we could all focus on them.
We have sprint and vanish, both can be negated by dots, a snare or a speed boost of some kind to the attacker, thus forcing us to fight even though we are not getting the first hit in.
Maces are not a requirement or even particularly good for a stun-based rogue, if your target is standing stunned you might as well use a dagger for higher dps since after CSx2 and KS the diminishing returns will kick in on any proc you might get anyway.
For every warrior to have that many weapons which are all constantly near the cutting edge of their level range would require mobs to have dedicated loot slots for weapons in addition to the normal ones so non-weapon users can actually get some loot every once in a while. One one hand, shield and two-hand each you're near the level cap for is realistic, with the second and third one-hand and second two-hand lagging behind.
Two daggers are no better than dagger / sword or dagger / fist generally, you gain no advantage from your offhand being a dagger over an equal weapon of another type, this is why you see so few rogues with dual daggers around.
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Dr. Gee had this to say about Punky Brewster:
I've never seen a fist weapon. Ever.
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Addy had this to say about Tron:
Most popular fist weapon is dropped by Celebras in Maraudon.
Thats one of em, the Behemoth drops its counterpart.
quote:Yes and no.
Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Pirotess:
Oh say, Mord, if you're still lurking, does the test server have the Ogre graphic updates? If so, are they as lame as they look?
quote:
Blackened had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Yes and no.
I believe I was talking to Mord 
But anyways, they don't look so goddamn stoned?
quote:They look fit now, not fat. Can't say much for the expression.
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Mr. Parcelan said:
I believe I was talking to Mord
But anyways, they don't look so goddamn stoned?
quote:
Blackened had this to say about Cuba:
They look fit now, not fat. Can't say much for the expression.
Yeah, I guess so.
What are the Alliance getting?
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Maradon! had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
I think paladins DPS should be [s]lowered[/s] raised to the point where they're only able to kill people in PVP as frequently as they die
I really don't need to compare how often I die versus how often I kill someone.
If I kill someone, it's usually a fairly sloppy person who was too stubborn to run away when beaten. As I've said, if someone wants to get away from me, pretty much no class has trouble with it.
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Lashanna had this to say about the Spice Girls:
I really don't need to compare how often I die versus how often I kill someone.If I kill someone, it's usually a fairly sloppy person who was too stubborn to run away when beaten. As I've said, if someone wants to get away from me, pretty much no class has trouble with it.
Generally, a pally killing someone is simply outlasting them. I know you little bastards can suck my mana down like nobody's buisness (Save hunters.. grr).
It's all gravy in the wash, though.
