quote:
This insanity brought to you by -Yuri-:
And.. why dont you like me Dens?
This isn't the place for such a discussion.
Many accuse agnostics/atheists/anythingnotChristian of only doing it to be cool or different. Perhaps this is the case for thousands of people. Maybe that is why many people proclaim not to be Christian. Then again, there are many people who have very good and valid reasons. There are the more outspoken ones like Karnaj, and then there's Gadani and me. I just don't believe it, and I don't feel the presence of any higher deity/entity, nor do I feel the need to explain myself beyond that. That reason is just as valid as any number of pages Karnaj could write about it, at least in my opinion it is.
Basically what I'm getting at here is that it's just as bad to assume that someone is mindlessly a Christian because their parents told them to as it is to assume that someone is mindless agnostic/atheist/whathaveyou because their friend/favorite band/whatever told them to. Kegwen fucked around with this message on 01-26-2005 at 12:28 AM.
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-Yuri- had this to say about pies:
That's because, in that thread, if your memory serves you at all, you didn't put up any 'defense' as to why you are agnostic, merely saying that you were and leaving it at that. The term agnostic has become like candy, being thrown around like it is a meaningless word when it actually means so much more. Several well-respected surveys have been done and, on the average, the person that is between the ages of 15 and 25 that say they are 'agnostic' have no reason to say they are other then because its the most current thing.And.. why dont you like me Dens?
You didn't give any reason for why you're Christian. From my experience, people are only Christian because they get lonely on Sundays. May I now assert that you are merely a Christian because you have no friends? Not at all, because you aren't the same as the people in "my experience"--neither is Gadani the same as the people in those surveys.
However, why should he have to defend his non-belief to anyone but himself?
quote:
So quoth Elvish Crack Piper:
I've been agnostic since shortly after Everquest told me there was such a thing.
That is where I learned that word too, I think. I also used to learn a lot of words from Magic the Gathering, like 'coercion'. My public schools must have sucked.
1. Do unto others...
If you take shots at any group, sooner or later someone is going to come along and take shots at your faction/side. This has come up mostly with politics, but I see a fair amount of it happening with religious beliefs. Pved and I have danced arguments around the topic of "Religion: necessary or evil?" where I was actually defending religion's existence. I think everyone should do a turn defending some aspect of something they disagree with. I'm not saying you should defend a rapist or a child molester, but it's healthy to at least acknowledge without demarcation or sarcasm why someone has an opposing point of view.
Unfortunately, a lot of people don't support their points very well, then are SHOCKED AND ANGERED when someone comes along and takes shots (without elaborating very well) at their beliefs. Gay marriage conversations got ugly at several points.
The best sort of unresolved arguments are the ones where both sides understand the other's point of view, and just happen to disagree. Arttemis and I disagree on firearms. Call and I, last I checked, disagreed on firearms. I still respect both of them, and understand their opinion. I just don't agree with their reasoning, and they don't agree with mine. I'm loathe to admit it, but I tend to be a bit more rabid about my point of view than they are.
In any case, kneejerk reactions can be safely ignored. I'm not religious, but I personally just sort of rolled my eyes at the Christians/Lions statement. It wasn't clever, witty, or tasteful. But frankly, what is around here? If I got pissy about it, someone would just get pissy at me later for being too restrictive about my point of view on that sort of thing.
In any case, pardon my usage here, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You can bitch about people taking a shot at your group when you fail to have taken a shot at them about something. Some people are just going to have to plain suck it up about being angry over people taking shots at what they hold dear.
2. Don't be a menace to your own belief system
Okay let's be blunt here. Sometimes, someone says something on your side of an argument that makes you just cover your eyes and want to smack them. Azizza, for instance. I think he's very intelligent, very articulate, and I certainly consider him a friend but sometimes he lets his passions overwhelm him and he makes a tactically bad choice of phrasing or words. Gun control in particular is something that he comes off sounding...odd...about.
Taken to a more extreme level, I can generalize by saying that there are crackpots of every faction, and it is the onus of the normal folks to bear the brunt of their nutjob breathren's oratory. Don't make it worse by making yourself sound like a goof. I know a lot of pagans and wiccans. Some of them are very articulate about their beliefs. I don't subscribe to the belief system, but I at least get the gist of it enough to say "Ah okay I can see why you might think that". Then there are people who mean well, but just don't convey their thoughts. I remember when Bloodsage and Trillee got into it and the issue was Trillee's religion. The problem came down to two things: 1. Bloodsage is the most diligent debater I think I've ever met...he argues things until it's finished, and 2. Trillee is not a great debater and frankly came off sounding a bit...nutty. Not her fault, under the circumstances. I imagine she realized pretty quick that she was in trouble, and I give her credit for sticking it out.
Buuuuuut...it's easier to take things down to faith. If you're going to argue a point, bring solid supports. People should understand your point of view, but you have to meet them halfway. Expecting someone to construct supports for your argument just so they have something to argue against is dumb. If it's faith and what you believe, cut to the chase and say so. Appeal to the fact that it is faith and you can't argue it. Appeal to the fact you are gay or lesbian and say "yes, and?" If you're a furre, say "this is who I am" and keep going. No one faults Zephyer for being a furry sort, right? Or Katrinity for favoring a kitsune as a patron icon?
In other words, don't make yourself look like a crackpot, and if you're outgunned in arguments, take it down to simple ground floor responses. It works for Gydyon. Gyd's one of those guys who isn't just faithful, he kinda makes you see the point to it all. I knew someone like that back in North Carolina. Gyd doesn't have to justify himself to you. His religion is part of who he is, and he's a pretty cool guy. No further explanation necessary. Not going to win a logic debate that way, but bloody hell it's discussion not a trial.
3. Accept you have losers dragging you down
As counter-point to the defensive argument, if you're going to wear your sexual preference, religion, sexual kinks, etc on your sleeve, then you're going to get hit sooner or later by some statement by someone. More than half the time, people here are talking out of their asses.
There are a few cases of people getting annoying with their reflexive attacks. Maradon and the SoE stuff. Pved and his anti-religious status. Parce went through a period where he was very obnoxious. There was a period where several people were unreasonably harsh to newbies. I was overly protective of Lyinar for a while. It happens. We eventually learn to acquit ourselves better than relying on knee-jerk responses.
But the worst part is that there's a kernel of truth to some statements. There are quite a lot of freak-ass furries out there. Not all of them, mind you. But a lot. There are some obnoxiously "flaming" gay people who don't just flaunt their sexual preference, they do it with some hideous quasi-sexual floor show. There are a lot of asshole Christians and asshat Arabs who make all sorts of remarks about pagans or capitalists or whoever. There ARE a lot of would-be pagans and wiccans who get into it to shock their parents or to seem cool. If you're a part of this group, deal with the fact there are assholes. Prove you're not one of them. It's easier to defend your point of view and neutralize opposing points of view if you can draw on personal credibility. I guarantee you that if there were a vicious anti-Christian thread, Mortious or (sorry to use you again) Gydyon could shut it down pretty quick drawing on personal credibility. I've seen Gydyon do it. Thread takes a nasty anti-Christian swing, Gyd pops in, makes a few comments politely and drawing on his own bank of personal credibility, and suddenly people are chilling out. Callalron does something similar, except he manages to pull it off in just about every debate thread he takes part in, so he doesn't count on the grounds his Foo is universal.
4. Friends?
We all have people we don't like here. Or people we at least don't care for. But we all have friends here too. Watch what you're saying. Your friend will forgive you, probably, if your blast-furnace-breath-weapon attack on some social group happens to catch them too, but why put that pressure on a FRIEND?
Debate is one thing. Don't assume everyone will laugh it off. I hate it when people say "no offense, but..." and then launch into the most personal, offensive, vicious attack conceivable.
Think before you speak.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael said:
It wasn't clever, witty, or tasteful. But frankly, what is around here?
Baptismal Bukkake? 
Heh, yeah Zair, MTG teaches math, and now english. Coercion isnt exactly a commonly used word, even in the private school I went to. After going to that 'lil christian academy for 6 years, then going to public school. Thats when I stopped believing. Reality conflicted with the Bible way to much. Elvish Crack Piper fucked around with this message on 01-26-2005 at 02:59 AM.
Please keep in mind however, that it is in no way representative of what I really think of the religious, but was intended as a joke in the context of a man who intentionally threw himself to the lions in a zoo, in an attempt to save their souls.
But again, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you.
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Elvish Crack Piper wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
That was the context? All he did was say that yall are crazy about recruiting, albeit in an offbeat way.
"A man was attacked and injured after jumping into a lion's den at the Taipei Zoo and trying to convert the lions to Christianity. The 46-year-old man leaped into the den of African lions and shouted "Jesus will save you," according to the report. He also said, "Come bite me" before one of the male lions attacked and bit the man." Pvednes fucked around with this message on 01-26-2005 at 06:43 AM.
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Kegwen said this:
You're Christian for your own reasons. Let's say that you believe in the Lord and that he sent his Son down to the Earth and took humankind's sin upon his shoulders. You truly believe that, and thus you're Christian. Perhaps you had a deeply moving experience. Either way, you have personal reasons that explain your belief.Many accuse agnostics/atheists/anythingnotChristian of only doing it to be cool or different. Perhaps this is the case for thousands of people. Maybe that is why many people proclaim not to be Christian. Then again, there are many people who have very good and valid reasons. There are the more outspoken ones like Karnaj, and then there's Gadani and me. I just don't believe it, and I don't feel the presence of any higher deity/entity, nor do I feel the need to explain myself beyond that. That reason is just as valid as any number of pages Karnaj could write about it, at least in my opinion it is.
Basically what I'm getting at here is that it's just as bad to assume that someone is mindlessly a Christian because their parents told them to as it is to assume that someone is mindless agnostic/atheist/whathaveyou because their friend/favorite band/whatever told them to.
Actually, I'm Christian because I have a solid belief system that there most certainly is a God in heaven and he most certainly has a son named Jesus. And for the lonely comment, I do not attend Church because I believe that personal prayer is all one needs to achieve personal oneship with God.
I grew tired of the anti-Christian stuff a long time ago, which is why I never post in a religion thread. There seems to be no point (unless I become a masochist) to do so. I avoid the controversy deliberately, because it hurts sometimes and because I don't want to ever be in the position of being perceived as bashing anyone for being an agnostic, an atheist, a wiccan, or anything else.
Frankly, however, it's gotten much worse lately (last six months or so). It's one reason I have not been bothering with the board as much. Maybe you've noticed, maybe you haven't.
And to say "We like the nice Christians like Gydyon" actually doesn't do anything for me. I appreciate the effort, but it's somewhat patronizing. I've been an ardent follower of Christ for nearly seventeen years, and whether or not you think of me as "one of the reasonable ones" you're still pissing down my leg and telling me it's raining.
I like most of you and I know it's largely unintentional for most. I don't really care if you stop (it's not my board and you are free to do whatever you choose), but know it does have an effect.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Ares thought about the meaning of life:
I kindof find if funny that most of you who have a problem with this bash people if they are wiccan or pagan...
Or liberals. Or <insert other group we don't agree with here>. Don't let that stop the persecution complex though.
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Check out the big brain on Zaza!
Or liberals. Or <insert other group we don't agree with here>. Don't let that stop the persecution complex though.
The difference is that neither Wicca nor "paganism" are real religions at all, they're fashion statements that act like religions. "Real" wiccans went extinct centuries ago. Any "Wiccan" you meet today is nothing more than a poser pretending to follow a dead religion because it's trendy.
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Zaza had this to say about John Romero:
Or liberals. Or <insert other group we don't agree with here>. Don't let that stop the persecution complex though.
Similarly a lot of radical liberals aren't liberals at all, they're marxists acting like liberals.
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Maradon! still thinks SARS jokes are topical, as evidenced by:
The difference is that neither Wicca nor "paganism" are real religions at all, they're fashion statements that act like religions. "Real" wiccans went extinct centuries ago. Any "Wiccan" you meet today is nothing more than a poser pretending to follow a dead religion because it's trendy.
Uh, the only difference between the belief sets (without looking at their actual content) are the number of adherents. If there were 180 million Wiccans in this country instead of 180 million Christians, you'd be calling Christianity the "fashion statement." Fortunately, since belief sets are all equally valid in all respects, the number of adherents doesn't matter whatsoever.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Maradon!'s account was hax0red to write:
The difference is that neither Wicca nor "paganism" are real religions at all, they're fashion statements that act like religions. "Real" wiccans went extinct centuries ago. Any "Wiccan" you meet today is nothing more than a poser pretending to follow a dead religion because it's trendy.
And Christians are worshipping a tribal god that was remade into a contradictory all-loving father that's really a pretty petty fucker.
So what's your point here? That "real religions" should automatically be protected from bashing?
Not to mention that the only distinction you've made is a fictous one, but Karnaj already handled that. Zaza fucked around with this message on 01-26-2005 at 11:39 AM.
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Karnaj thought about the meaning of life:
Uh, the only difference between the belief sets (without looking at their actual content) are the number of adherents. If there were 180 million Wiccans in this country instead of 180 million Christians, you'd be calling Christianity the "fashion statement." Fortunately, since belief sets are all equally valid in all respects, the number of adherents doesn't matter whatsoever.
There's one more difference that you've neglected to consider, and that's motivation for believing. A religion is a set of beliefs held as an explanation for the nature of the universe and shaped by a culture over the course of centuries. Today's Neo-Wiccans had no part in the development of the religion and no exposure to any of the stimulii that shaped it. They are as disconnected from real Wicca as a born Jew is from native american beliefs.
The only reason they believe is because they decided it was a cool thing to believe, their motivation for believing is social rather than cultural, they believe for the same reason people start smoking; to impress their friends. I never claimed that it was any less valid a viewpoint, I only claimed that they are not in any sense real Wiccans and that Neo-Wiccanism is not a real religion in the sense that culturally indoctrinated religions are.
If every native american everywhere died out or intermarried with other cultures, then a thousand years later a group of totally random people started practicing native american beliefs without any exposure to the culture or people that developed those beliefs, they would not simply become native americans.
In short, sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 01-26-2005 at 11:52 AM.
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This one time, at Maradon! camp:
The difference is that neither Wicca nor "paganism" are real religions at all, they're fashion statements that act like religions. "Real" wiccans went extinct centuries ago. Any "Wiccan" you meet today is nothing more than a poser pretending to follow a dead religion because it's trendy.
Technically, although Wiccans like to claim otherwise, there's no direct lineage between Wicca and the religions they base their origins from. They essentially resurrected dead practices.
Likewise, any non-JudeoChristian (not including Islam, interestingly enough) is TECHNICALLY a pagan. In discussions of alternative theology, however, pagans are usually people who worship in alternative dead religious structures.
Whether or not it's posing...well...you can tell who's posing and who isn't by the same method you use to figure out if someone's really Christian or just using it to their own ends.
The point is that it's wrong to attack without thinking.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Zaza wrote this stupid crap:
So what's your point here? That "real religions" should automatically be protected from bashing?
No, not at all. Nobody should be protected from bashing. There's no such thing as a right to not be offended. However I, as an individual, have respect for the beliefs of people following culturally indoctrinated religions, because they've accepted their religion out of genuine faith and observation of how the universe works.
I do not extend that respect to individuals following religions for social reasons. Some catholics are this way, yes, but for reasons I've posted before, it's clear that all self proclaimed Wiccans are.
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael said this about your mom:
Likewise, any non-JudeoChristian (not including Islam, interestingly enough) is TECHNICALLY a pagan. In discussions of alternative theology, however, pagans are usually people who worship in alternative dead religious structures.
Which is why I never misuse the term "Pagan" to describe Wiccans (or Neo-Wiccans)
quote:
Whether or not it's posing...well...you can tell who's posing and who isn't by the same method you use to figure out if someone's really Christian or just using it to their own ends.
The fact that the Neo-Wiccans are following a centuries-dead faith seems proof to me that they are posing.
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Maradon! had this to say about Pirotess:
No, not at all. Nobody should be protected from bashing. There's no such thing as a right to not be offended. However I, as an individual, have respect for the beliefs of people following culturally indoctrinated religions, because they've accepted their religion out of genuine faith and observation of how the universe works.I do not extend that respect to individuals following religions for social reasons. Some catholics are this way, yes, but for reasons I've posted before, it's clear that all self proclaimed Wiccans are.
So you're not arguing that christians are unjustly persecuted around here then?
Alrighty, then we're on the same line.
You don't hear many Kemeticist jokes. 
quote:
Zaza said this:
And Christians are worshipping a tribal god that was remade into a contradictory all-loving father that's really a pretty petty fucker.
So much ignorance. At least have some god damn respect for the being that over half of the fucking world worships.
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Verily, Zaza doth proclaim:
So you're not arguing that christians are unjustly persecuted around here then?Alrighty, then we're on the same line.
I'm only arguing that I would never persecute christians. I haven't seen much unjust persecution of christians around here, or if I have, I haven't taken much notice.
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-Yuri- flip-flopped when they said:
So much ignorance. At least have some god damn respect for the being that over half of the fucking world worships.
Why? I respect people based on their persons, not their religion.
What I said is pretty much 100% true, and you can say similar things for every religion.
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How.... Zephyer Kyuukaze.... uughhhhhh:
I'm lucky. My religion tends to fly under the radar.You don't hear many Kemeticist jokes.
I have lots of Wiccan friends and because I want to remain friends with them, I do not discuss my views of their faith with them. This is not much different.
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Zephyer Kyuukaze said:
You don't hear many Kemeticist jokes.
I thought those were the guys who made Kendel Mint Cakes.
... no, really.
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Maradon! still thinks SARS jokes are topical, as evidenced by:
There's one more difference that you've neglected to consider, and that's motivation for believing. A religion is a set of beliefs held as an explanation for the nature of the universe and shaped by a culture over the course of centuries. Today's Neo-Wiccans had no part in the development of the religion and no exposure to any of the stimulii that shaped it. They are as disconnected from real Wicca as a born Jew is from native american beliefs.
True, but like you said, that's no reason to consider their beliefs any less valid than something with a few thousand years of worldwide momentum behind it. The argument, however, also holds for modern Christians. They had no part in shaping their faith; in fact, I'd wager most of the ancestors were converted many centuries after the essentials of Christianity were decided upon. The only distinction, then, is that their particular belief set (at least, the core beliefs) has survived the centuries.
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The only reason they believe is because they decided it was a cool thing to believe, their motivation for believing is social rather than cultural, they believe for the same reason people start smoking; to impress their friends. I never claimed that it was any less valid a viewpoint, I only claimed that they are not in any sense real Wiccans and that Neo-Wiccanism is not a real religion in the sense that culturally indoctrinated religions are.
I think you're treading on a hasty generalization with this one; who's to say that they don't consider these beliefs to be fundamental truths of the world? Moreover, I think you might be confusing "cool" with "appealing." While there is little to no cultural impetus for them to believe, you nonetheless are implying that because it doesn't fit into the category of religion as you've defined it, it is somehow less valid. I assert, however, that cultural indroctrination plays a part only in the propagation of a religion, not in its standing as a religion, or the validity of its belief set.
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If every native american everywhere died out or intermarried with other cultures, then a thousand years later a group of totally random people started practicing native american beliefs without any exposure to the culture or people that developed those beliefs, they would not simply become native americans.In short, sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.
Obfuscation. Your example fails because Native Americans are characterized not only by their religion, but also by their genetic heritage. In the case of your example, it would be impossible to become a Native American because the requisite geneaology would simply not exist. They would, however, be followers of the Native American belief set (whose proper name escapes me).
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
Mr. Parcelan wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
"So many Christians...so few lions..."As quoted by our good friend, Pvednes, in this thread.
This is perhaps one of the most singularly disgusting things I've ever heard espoused from even the ignorant lips of people who blindly hate Christians for the mere fact that they're Christians.
"We don't hate them just because they're Christian. It's just because they're fundamentalists!"
Funny how it can be turned to anything...
"We don't hate them just because they're (Jews/grandmas/Arabs/Spics/Australians). It's just because they're (Greedy and Perfidious/Thieves and Rapists/Insane Terrorists/Lazy Drug Addicts/Ignorant, Wallaby-Molesting Spawn of Criminals)."
But if you say something like that, then it's wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of fundamentalist Christianity. Adopting one school of thought and obeying it unquestioningly isn't healthy. I don't agree with a lot of things that a lot of peoples and creeds do, but I don't make such a hateful comment as what Pvednes did.
I don't agree with fundamentalist Islam. I don't say: "So many Islamics, so few religious purgings." I don't agree with a lot of thought that there's a ton of black oppression in the world. I don't say: "So many grandmas, so few lynch mobs."
Frankly, every time I think the blindly anti-Christian group has found a new low on this board, they sink a little lower. You know me, Gydyon and other Christians on this board. Would you gladly throw the likes of us with the lions because a few people say something you don't like?
It's foolish, ignorant and it's got to stop.
I'm going to jump in without even reading the thread, because it's obvious you didn't bother to look at the context of that particular quotation. Notice the dude who jumped into the lion cage to proselytize.
Quite obviously, it wasn't a statement of hatred for Christians, as you're so lamely alleging, but a timely joke in a humorous context. Unless it's your contention that Monty Python was a bunch of evil anti-religious people out to create intolerance and hatred rather than a bunch of comic geniuses able to point out the absurd in any situation?
Quit being a hypersensitive prick. I vote 1.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
The only people I have a problem with are those I know in real life who are the type to shove it down your throat, or to ostrasize you if you do not follow their system. Its pretty bad in the Navy, or at least here in this area where I am. If you have a devout superior, and they find out you are not of their beliefs there is a chance they will do all in their power to make your life a living hell.Not all, but there are enough to warrent a mentiion.
However, here on the board I have not noticed any religious people, regardless of what diety they choose to worship, exclude others by that sheer fact. I think the reason why there are is a lot of Christian bashing is because of the outspoken bible-thumping evangelists that you see on tv, on the street, and meet every day. People generally return intolorance with intolorance, and lately, many fundimentalists have been fueling that fire. I know that these people do not make up the majority, and most people understand that too, but when the minority is so loud, then blanket generalizations tend to form about anyone remotely related to a certain group. Sometimes it is worse than others. A few examples are (and bear in mind I donot believe in any of these generalizations):
All Middle Easterners are Muslims.
All Muslims want to kill the westerners.
All Brits have bad teeth.
All New Yorkers are foul mouthed and impatient.
All Californians are lazy surfer dudes.
All Latinos are illegal immigrants.
All Pagans do it for the attention.
All homosexuals are that way because its trendy.
All Japanese schoolgirls are sex-crazed.
All MMORPG players have no lives.
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
quote:
Azakias had this to say about Captain Planet:
I'm not religious, andI dont thinkI have taken any potshots at religion(I try to keep out of religious discussions for the most part.I generally have little to add save for the fact thatI am agnostic bordering on athiest.)The only people I have a problem with are those I know in real life who are the type to shove it down your throat, or to ostrasize you if you do not follow their system. Its pretty bad in the Navy, or at least here in this area where I am. If you have a devout superior, and they find out you are not of their beliefs there is a chance they will do all in their power to make your life a living hell.Not all, but there are enough to warrent a mentiion.
However, here on the board I have not noticed any religious people, regardless of what diety they choose to worship, exclude others by that sheer fact. I think the reason why there are is a lot of Christian bashing is because of the outspoken bible-thumping evangelists that you see on tv, on the street, and meet every day. People generally return intolorance with intolorance, and lately, many fundimentalists have been fueling that fire. I know that these people do not make up the majority, and most people understand that too, but when the minority is so loud, then blanket generalizations tend to form about anyone remotely related to a certain group. Sometimes it is worse than others. A few examples are (and bear in mind I donot believe in any of these generalizations):
All Middle Easterners are Muslims.
All Muslims want to kill the westerners.
All Brits have bad teeth.
All New Yorkers are foul mouthed and impatient.
All Californians are lazy surfer dudes.
All Latinos are illegal immigrants.
All Pagans do it for the attention.
All homosexuals are that way because its trendy.
All Japanese schoolgirls are sex-crazed.
All MMORPG players have no lives.
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
But the christians are being persecuted for their religion.
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-Yuri- had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
So much ignorance. At least have some god damn respect for the being that over half of the fucking world worships.
Why would we respect an abstract concept that there is no proof as to it actually existing, as opposed to respecting the people that may worship it, or whatever one they want, based on the person and who they are. I wont respect or disrespect a person solely on their religion, I will do so because of who they are. If they try to jam religion down my throat or claim they are superior because of their religion or whatever, then I will disrespect them. But would also do the same for someone that tried the same thing with any other topic.
I don't care what abstract ideal you pray to at night, doesn't matter to me, all that matters is who you are.
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Trillee had this to say about Duck Tales:
As I told Dens.. because I'm tired of being flamed everytime I say something in my defence... it's that kind of double standard that pisses me off.You(general you, not spacific) sit here and gripe when someone says something against your beliefs... yet if someone makes a bad pass about pagans it's all good and fine. Hell you have to bitch a fit when someone even uses the word pagan.
Because, as we've discussed before, the word "pagan" is absolutely meaningless in terms of describing one's religious beliefs.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Zaza said this:
Why? I respect people based on their persons, not their religion.What I said is pretty much 100% true, and you can say similar things for every religion.
I'm not saying respect me, I'm saying respect the belief. You are shitting all over the whole fucking ideal that is 'God' and not giving a rats ass that over half the people in the WORLD believe that 'God' is their savior. That's just fucking disrespectful to the belief, not even the person.
