quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about (_|_):
I would be fine with the mods using a bit of personal judgment.
I'm not. Mods enforce the rules. Period.
As I'm sure you remember, there was a point in this forum's history where mods were allowed to use personal judgement and it didn't go well. Hell, there were even giant flamewars started over a mod accidentally using the "edit post" button instead of the "reply" button.
Therefore, mods do not edit content anymore (except in extreme cases), and all judgement calls fall in my lap where I can make a final decision on the matter. Mods only lock forums, so I can unlock them upon review if the situation deserve it, and mods only blacklist users, so I can ban or unblacklist them based on the situation. [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Drysart ]
And Ocy, I don't have to be speaking up *for* anyone to be speaking up. I think this could adversely affect us all in the future, and honestly I don't want to see that happen. I want to see us all able to at least tolerate one another and be civil, even when discussing something prickly.
We've managed it in the past, even the recent past, and it's been great. I can't help but wish we could have that sort of thing on a much more regular basis.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
That was then, and now a mod coming in saying "Chill out guys" generally results in a slowdown until the flamewar erupts again, up to thread closure.
Truth hurt much?
As long as we don't have to use a seperate board for 20 different topics like at some other forums it won't be any noticable change at all, except that you'll have to klick 2-3 times more per checking of the board.
On the other hand, maybe the ability to filter threads based on tag would solve the whole problem, dunno how possible it would be to implement it though.
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about Captain Planet:
so why not allow the moderators a little more freedom in putting out flamewars besides locking?
Because I'm already fielding complaints about the moderators (some of them from you, in fact), even as limited as their powers are now.
Moderators are not allowed to edit content because there's no way I can lay down a set of black-or-white rules as to what's appropriate to edit, and undoubtedly personal bias would enter into it at one point. I also do not trust anyone enough to allow them to change someone else's words.
If you want interpersonal respect, start at the source. The moderators are not responsible for people being mean to each other.
It's something of a two-sided issue, I suppose. I honestly feel the mods should be seen more. I think we could all gain a better respect with more exposure, and they would be seen more as an authority.
But we as patrons should also try to respect the purpose of the mods and if they say chill out, then we should chill out, and stay civil.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Drysart said:
Because I'm already fielding complaints about the moderators (some of them from you, in fact), even as limited as their powers are now.Moderators are not allowed to edit content because there's no way I can lay down a set of black-or-white rules as to what's appropriate to edit, and undoubtedly personal bias would enter into it at one point. I also do not trust anyone enough to allow them to change someone else's words.
If you want interpersonal respect, start at the source. The moderators are not responsible for people being mean to each other.
And what has been my number one complaint to you about a moderator? They don't do enough. They lock a thread, or they pop in with some rather nasty comment rather than trying to set an example in how people should act.
The moderators are not entirely responsible for people being mean to each other. You are not entirely responsible for people being mean to each other. The patrons are not entirely responsible for people being mean to each other. Everyone is in some small way responsible.
But the current procedure of moderation is not working. It may not be the only cause, but it is a cause. The mods aren't seen as an authority. And don't you think they should be, and if they aren't, then something should be changed so they can be?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
The mods aren't seen as an authority. And don't you think they should be, and if they aren't, then something should be changed so they can be?
Actually, I see them as an authority. Drysart trusts them enough to make them mods, and has given them some power over the boards. (More power is there than they're actually supposed to use, I bet.)
They may not be the highest power in the land, but they are people entrusted by Drysart to help keep things under control. Any problems they have go straight to Drysart. That's authority enough for me.
quote:
Palador ChibiDragon had this to say about Pirotess:
Actually, I see them as an authority. Drysart trusts them enough to make them mods, and has given them some power over the boards. (More power is there than they're actually supposed to use, I bet.)
I see them as an authority as well, but only because Drysart has put them into authority, not because I feel they do anything to improve things or to set a good example. But I will still follow their directions because Drysart has put them in charge and while I don't always agree with him, I respect him as the owner of the boards.
However, you and I aren't everyone, and Tier brought up a good point. If the trend is that a mod comes into a thread, says knock it off, and it's knocked off for a while, but starts up again, then isn't that an indication they are not universally respected? And shouldn't we be against that sort of attitude if we do see them as an authority?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
::gasp::
quote:
The RulesGeneral Overview
These forums are up and have continued to stay up because I, Tim Fries, have decided to pay for the bandwidth, server bills, and equipment costs out of my own pocket. I lose money from my paycheck every month by hosting these forums. These are my forums that I pay money to host, and I have free control over them. I will ban who I see fit. I will ban you if I don't like your name, or the way you spell "potato". I will ban you if I play a word in Scrabble that gives me Triple Word Score with the first letter of your username. I, and the rest of the moderators, will ban who breaks my rules. If you think these rules are unfair, you can either leave or pay me the cost of my server/bandwidth bills every month. These boards are a free service to you which causes me to lose my money each month.
I think that spells it all out pretty clearly.
Tim's forums = Tim's rules
Tim does not want Anime threads cluttering up the board = Tim makes special Anime forum.
(And there was much rejoicing! 
)
Tim does not wish to see war discussions on the main forum = Tim makes new forum for such discussions..
.. and the peasants revolt??
Verily, if thou doest not agree with Tim's rule for Tim's boards then might I suggest you make your own forum where you can write your own rules to your 
's content.
Quid Est Demonstratum
That's for Tier. [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Lyinar Ka`Bael ]
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
So quoth Abbikat:
Verily, the Drysart doth proclaim:I think that spells it all out pretty clearly.
Tim's forums = Tim's rules
Tim does not want Anime threads cluttering up the board = Tim makes special Anime forum.
(And there was much rejoicing!
)
Tim does not wish to see war discussions on the main forum = Tim makes new forum for such discussions..
.. and the peasants revolt??
Verily, if thou doest not agree with Tim's rule for Tim's boards then might I suggest you make your own forum where you can write your own rules to your's content.
Quid Est Demonstratum
You know, two people now have expressed that view, but the man himself is showing himself to be much more reasonable and actually open to discussing the subject, and he hasn't gotten rude at all. Funny, huh?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael's account was hax0red to write:
However, you and I aren't everyone, and Tier brought up a good point. If the trend is that a mod comes into a thread, says knock it off, and it's knocked off for a while, but starts up again, then isn't that an indication they are not universally respected? And shouldn't we be against that sort of attitude if we do see them as an authority?
Naturally. But, there is only so much responsibility that we can have for our fellow posters. I try to respect the Powers that Be and set a good example, but I can't force anyone else to. I can ask, but that's about it.
If people don't listen to the mods, then the mods have their options for dealing with it, I'm sure. Maybe not the best options, but they're the options they agreed to when they became mods.
I'm sure Drysart and the mods have mental lists of just who is a problem on the boards, and Drysart will deal with them if he feels the need.
The mods are like cops, they can arrest you and bring you up before The Judge (Drysart), but they can't actually throw you into prison for a few years. Only Judge Drysart can do that.
For now, I'll continue to give them my respect, as will the other "good" posters of this board. As for the "bad" posters, they'll learn someday why it's just not wise to piss off the cops. When that happens though, is not up to me.
For quite a time now, from Tim's rules or just general laziness, the mods have been useless. Be honest, how often do they make any sort of difference? And how is ignoring the fact that no one listens to them going to fix the problem?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about pies:
*snip*
Considering what they're being paid, I would say they're earning their wages. 
Want to see a mod making a difference? Check the War Forum, some pointless spam threads have allready been shut down so that the forum can serve its purpose.
Edit: And here. [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Palador ChibiDragon ]
They're obviously spam threads. Why not just delete the first entirely and keep the second because it actually makes the policy clear without leaving useless spam lying around?
And the ninja edited thread you put in ( 
) was exactly the sort I meant about a mod being nasty and insulting rather than just saying something like "Please don't link to the SA boards. That led to an inappropriate picture" or similar. Rather we have a *moderator* giving an example that being a jerk about it is okay.
And we're left to wonder why people are mean to each other when we have this sort of example from those who are supposed to be in charge? [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Lyinar Ka`Bael ]
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about Captain Planet:
Why not just delete the first entirely and keep the second because it actually makes the policy clear without leaving useless spam lying around?
I think that can cause problems with the boards. There needs to be a thread there, otherwise things like the Search function throw a fit when they find an empty space.
Drysart can delete a thread, but he knows the tricks to make it work right. Asking a mod to know how to fix the boards if they break 'em doing something like that would be a bit much.
He explained in one, but an explaination really wasn't needed. So, he did something a bit more "in character" for the second one. I can't really fault him for that.
Edit: *this edit has been edited* [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Palador ChibiDragon ]
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
I just looked. And one thread didn't even give any sort of explanation. Just the lock reflex that seems to be so popular.They're obviously spam threads. Why not just delete the first entirely and keep the second because it actually makes the policy clear without leaving useless spam lying around?
And the ninja edited thread you put in (
) was exactly the sort I meant about a mod being nasty and insulting rather than just saying something like "Please don't link to the SA boards. That led to an inappropriate picture" or similar. Rather we have a *moderator* giving an example that being a jerk about it is okay.
And we're left to wonder why people are mean to each other when we have this sort of example from those who are supposed to be in charge?
In summary:
<Lyinar> Make me a mod Tim, so I can enforce yourrules in the manner I see fit
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Palador ChibiDragon was all like:
I think that can cause problems with the boards. There needs to be a thread there, otherwise things like the Search function throw a fit when they find an empty space.Drysart can delete a thread, but he knows the tricks to make it work right. Asking a mod to know how to fix the boards if they break 'em doing something like that would be a bit much.
He explained in one, but an explaination really wasn't needed. So, he did something a bit more "in character" for the second one. I can't really fault him for that.
Perhaps just editing out the content then, and leaving a message not to do it again.
And I can't agree with you. The "character" of Dolemite is to be nasty, harsh, insulting and overbearing. Not helpful.
Do we want nasty and insulting in a mod, or do we want helpful? [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Lyinar Ka`Bael ]
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Abbikat had this to say about Pirotess:
In summary:<Lyinar> Make me a mod Tim, so I can enforce yourrules in the manner I see fit
I was an admin in the past, Abbi. And that was the standard. Mods were polite, but forceful. They didn't have to insult or get nasty to get the point across. And they were respected. It was just a way we all sort of mutually agreed to act. And it worked.
It was like that even before I was a mod and I watched the mods in action. It changed when the norm became for the mods to be just as mean as everyone else, or to display the apathetic nature they have now. Do you think that's behavior conducive to being respected? You may, you may not. But I can't honestly say I do. And because I care about the state of the boards, I worry what that meanness and apathy is doing to us. [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Lyinar Ka`Bael ]
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
From the book of Lyinar Ka`Bael, chapter 3, verse 16:
And the ninja edited thread you put in (
How was that insulting? There is nothing insulting in his editted message. I have read it over and over and over trying to find the double meaning you have obviously seen and saw fit not to share.
How hard would it have been for Dolemite to just explain what was going on and why there was an edit and not to do it again? As it was, someone *else* had to explain for the mod. Isn't that the *mod's* job?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Verily, Lyinar Ka`Bael doth proclaim:
Perhaps just editing out the content then, and leaving a message not to do it again.
Perhaps, but the job was done. Also, there are those that feel that it's best to do it with the minimum of editing. Less hurt feelings from those who have had their posts edited, and fewer people wondering what it said before editing.
quote:
And I can't agree with you. The "character" of Dolemite is be nasty, harsh, insulting and overbearing. Not helpful.Do we want nasty and insulting in a mod, or do we want helpful?
As long as the nasty and insulting is done in a clearly RP fashion, can't it be both? Couldn't you see yourself modding, and making posts with the Jania (sp?) persona, while still doing what needs to be done?
Myself, I kinda like that he has a bit of RP persona. It's not my favorate persona, but it's cool that he's doing it.
quote:
ACES! Another post by Lyinar Ka`Bael:
The pimp persona? Saying I need to get her a job? I disagree with the entire pimp persona. Okay for a board account, but shouldn't a mod be held to a higher standard?How hard would it have been for Dolemite to just explain what was going on and why there was an edit and not to do it again? As it was, someone *else* had to explain for the mod. Isn't that the *mod's* job?
So basically there was nothing insulting in the message, and you were just grasping at straws(again) in order to make an imagined point about an imagined slight.
Gotcha.
Hurt feelings?
quote:
Palador ChibiDragon had this to say about Cuba:
As long as the nasty and insulting is done in a clearly RP fashion, can't it be both? Couldn't you see yourself modding, and making posts with the Jania (sp?) persona, while still doing what needs to be done?Myself, I kinda like that he has a bit of RP persona. It's not my favorate persona, but it's cool that he's doing it.
I would *never* moderate with the Jania persona. She is entirely too harsh of a character to have in that sort of position. I wouldn't want anyone to emulate her actions.
And Snoota, the pimp thing is insulting in and of itself. Implying he needs to make someone one of his girls, and constantly bringing that aspect into things. A RP persona is great. But why in the world would Drysart want people to emulate that type of one?
The only thing that happened was the post was edited, the mod took a shot at someone, and gave no explanation at all. THAT sort of thing is going to lead to hurt feelings and wondering why posts are edited.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
the mod took a shot at someone, and gave no explanation at all.
The shot was taken at the picture, not a person. [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Mr. Duck ]
quote:
Frog had this to say about Pirotess:
And really, the only time I've ever seen Dolemite get nasty is one thread where you and Parce got into it for two pages and he came in and told you both to shut up, while you were trying to hold the 'high' moral ground against Parce when in fact you were just as much a problem as he.Hurt feelings?
Parce and I both knocked it off, didn't we? And no, no hurt feelings. I feel the same about any mod that comes in and is nasty rather than trying to help. LOG once closed Lady D's thread I believe it was by telling her to die. Gee, there's a good role model.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael said this about your mom:
The only thing that happened was the post was edited, the mod took a shot at someone, and gave no explanation at all.
He didn't take a shot at anyone. I saw the post before it was edited. Maybe you're not familiar with some of the many SA off site linking pictures, but that particular picture linked to a picture of a Shemale holding his/her/it's dick for the camera.
I was under the impression that that was the 'her' that was addressed.
quote:
Check out the big brain on Mr. Duck!
The shot was taken at the picture, not a person.
The shot was taken at Kekvit by saying he needed to get her a job. When Dolemite in other threads refers to getting a woman a job, he's referring to the pimp persona, and more importantly, his hos.
I would find it rather insulting for a mod who is in a position of authority to tell me he needed to make me one of his hos, playing out a "character" or not.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Frog obviously shouldn't have said:
He didn't take a shot at anyone. I saw the post before it was edited. Maybe you're not familiar with some of the many SA off site linking pictures, but that particular picture linked to a picture of a Shemale holding his/her/it's dick for the camera.I was under the impression that that was the 'her' that was addressed.
I also saw the post before it was edited and if that's what was intended (and just how do you know what Dolemite intended on it, hmm?) then 1) it should have been made clear and 2) it shouldn't have been said at all, because 3) Dolemite should learn how to be helpful rather than always having to get some smart comment in.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael obviously shouldn't have said:
(and just how do you know what Dolemite intended on it, hmm?)
Because it's obvious to anyone who doesn't think everything is one big conspiracy to insult someone.
quote:
Frog had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Because it's obvious to anyone who doesn't think everything is one big conspiracy to insult someone.
Nobody knows for sure except Dolemite. You can't say for certain that it was to the picture. Unless, of course, you're claiming to be Dolemite. I'm not, and I can't say for sure that it was targeted at the person.
However, without explanation, the impression is that it's to the person. Because, Dolemite made a snippy little comment and left it at that, rather than being a responsible mod and trying to clear up confusion on just why the post was edited.
People aren't going to wonder if things are explained. It's when they're not explained that problems occur.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
Most people here are adults or nearly adults. Those who aren't for the most part, are far intelligent beyond their years.
I think most people here have enough of a sense of self-identity that they won't be influenced by the evil pimping ways of Dolemite.
They're put here to stop Flame Wars when they start, edit completely and wholely inappropriate rules, and for the most part, handle blatant and clear rule infractions that don't need any interpretation by Drysart.
*looks up at Drysart all starry-eyed*
I want to be just like LOG when I grow up...
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Frog was all like:
Drysart hates me too much to make me a mod. And if I were I would have only lasted a week before you and a bunch of other people were banned as my "going away" present.
Amen.
Ch! Y'all best be ceasin' yo' bangin' befo' me and the Jr. Dolemites get all Atlantic upside yo' asses!
Omg how'd I do Dolemite!
quote:
Sinice Aralund spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Lyinar, since when are Mods supposed to be "role models."Most people here are adults or nearly adults. Those who aren't for the most part, are far intelligent beyond their years.
I think most people here have enough of a sense of self-identity that they won't be influenced by the evil pimping ways of Dolemite.
They're put here to stop Flame Wars when they start, edit completely and wholely inappropriate rules, and for the most part, handle blatant and clear rule infractions that don't need any interpretation by Drysart.*looks up at Drysart all starry-eyed*
I want to be just like LOG when I grow up...
Since people emulate their behavior when they see it done by the mods. If Dryart okays it, if a mod okays it, it must be okay, right? Nevermind that it's mean or nasty, the ones in charge say okay by doing it, so it must be how they want *everyone* to act.
As I already pointed out, before the mods started "okaying" that sort of behavior by displaying it themselves, then we didn't have nearly as much nastiness to each other as we have now.
Granted, we were a smaller board. But the statement still stands. It doesn't matter if we're adults, or near adults. I've seen some true adults act just like gradeschool children sometimes here. People *do* base their image of what's okay and what's not okay partly on how the mods act, and partly on what they allow to occur.
So therein lies the problem. If you want people to stop being mean to each other, (and who knows? Maybe Drysart wants people to be mean to each other and cause flamewars, I don't know), then how is having those in charge acting mean to the patrons addressing the issue?
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
To elaborate, a lot of the stuff that goes on here is just joking. This board revolves around humor.
Jokes are exchanged daily, jibes are traded. Dolemite is a perfect example. I don't know what he's thinking either, but I'll bet he doesn't sit up at night plotting how to make peoples' lives worse.
A lot of these conflicts could be solved if people just took stuff with a grain of salt. [ 03-29-2003: Message edited by: Iron Parcelan ]
