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Cherveny wrote this:
Some idiots are already posting fake auctions for "genuine shuttle debris" on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2909705555

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Lyinar Ka`Bael was listening to Cher while typing:
However, back in 1986 when the Challenger blew up, was the terrorist issued raised almost immediately after the occurence?

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That was a different era.

Though for the record, I thought the terrorist link was stupid from the start. I was just saying they didn't make a big deal about it. It was mentioned once and shot down(oh ho ho.. i r make bad, tasteless pun!) and not mentioned again.

I think after 22 years of something so dangerous as space travel, only losing 2 crews is a pretty good record...

Hell, Columbia is the original shuttle, it was getting on in years...

I'm glad they didn't make an issue of it, but it still was kind of stupid to mention it at all. I mean if something was found or discovered that led to it, that's a different story. But it just seems more and more these days the media is about sensationalism and yellow journalism than about reporting things as they are. Not to mention the fact that we're all seeing phantoms around every corner because of the things they make a point to hype up.

No, I do not in any way think the media has ever been truly objective. I just think they're worse nowadays about it than they have been in the past

*shrugs*

Guess they just never planned on them staying around for 22 years. Hell, we were supposed to be flying around in hovercars on Mars by 1985

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This one time, at Suchii camp:
Hell, we were supposed to be flying around in hovercars on Mars by 1985

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Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about Duck Tales:
However, back in 1986 when the Challenger blew up, was the terrorist issued raised almost immediately after the occurence?

I just think even bringing up questions like that before there's even been an investigation is just feeding this paranoia that has been rampant since 9/11.

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In 1986 they didn't need to. Nowadays? They need to. Al Queada has stepped up their attacks on us. Anyone who claims they didn't is a fool or a liar. Can you honestly say if they were given a chance to sabotage that shuttle that they wouldn't have?

That's horrid...

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Khyron wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
In 1986 they didn't need to. Nowadays? They need to. Al Queada has stepped up their attacks on us. Anyone who claims they didn't is a fool or a liar. Can you honestly say if they were given a chance to sabotage that shuttle that they wouldn't have?

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They need to immediately after it happens? I'm not saying it shouldn't be a consideration. But they should let NASA at least give their statement or something before they make people nervous by mentioning something like that.

Remember learning about McCarthyism in history class? Things got really muddled in determining who really was a Communist and who wasn't. What's to say that seeing these shadows on the wall, and terrorism constantly being our first answer, wouldn't contribute to a repeat of something like that?

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Lyinar Ka`Bael stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
They need to immediately after it happens? I'm not saying it shouldn't be a consideration. But they should let NASA at least give their statement or something before they make people nervous by mentioning something like that.

Remember learning about McCarthyism in history class? Things got really muddled in determining who really was a Communist and who wasn't. What's to say that seeing these shadows on the wall, and terrorism constantly being our first answer, wouldn't contribute to a repeat of something like that?

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When something explodes out of midair, the first thought nowadays is terrorism. It's a fact that the Al Queada (SP?) doesn't like us much. When something goes wrong of that nature it's not difficult to beleive that they may have had their hand in it. They're not being silent. After 9/11 there was the shoe bomber who pleaded guilty to being part of the Al Queada. I /think/ the sniper in washington had some Al Queada ties, but that one I'm not sure on.

The point is, something went wrong, the shuttle exploded, and seven people died; the Al Queada would have jumped for a chance to have been responsible, so one of the questions we have to wonder when something like this happens is 'Was it foul play (Terrorism) or was it an accident?'.

I can promise you that even if the FBI and CIA didn't say so, they were probably keeping that as one of the key questions when they heard about it; was it sabotage from terrorists?

The fact is that there's PLENTY of things on a shuttle that could go wrong and cause a catastrophic event to occur. What was it that took out Challenger? As I recall it was something pretty minor that led to something major that led to the explosion. Hell if even one of the sections of heat shielding is slightly imperfect (keep in mind they remove and replace that stuff every mission) you could have a catastrophic loss.

And a good point was brought up earlier in the thread (by Suchii, I think). Those frames are only spec'd for 100 missions. By now, we were supposed to have the next-generation shuttle either in use or in production, but in their infinite wisdom, Congress has been refusing to fund that sort of development (on one hand, NASA had a severe problem with overspending for a long time, on the other hand, trying to make the shuttle work with 22 year old hardware is ridiculous; keep in mind that there's something like a decade delay in technology as far as what's on the shuttle. That's right folks, they're not even using pentium-class processors on the shuttle).

Well we're now down what, 20% of our shuttle fleet? 25% maybe? Did we have four or five active shuttles? Time for an upgrade in technology. Might not prevent this sort of event from ever happening again, but a new shuttle is certainly better than a 2.2 decade old shuttle.

Maybe it's just me, but my first thought on this wasn't "Oh my God, did terrorists blow up the shuttle?" but "Oh my God, it's just like Challenger. I wonder what went wrong."

I just don't see the use in worrying about it being a terrorist act until we're given a reason to think that. It feeds that feeling that something could happen any time, and any place, and I think that's one of the main things a terrorist group strives for. That loss of security and increasing that fear.

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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Frog said:
NOBODY BUT THE MOST ANNOYING OF CONSPIRACY THEORISTS THINK THAT TERRORISTS DID THIS.

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Also, a covert CIA experiment that involved with alien dna, spiders, a couple of rhesus monkeys, Carrot Top, and duct tape, went horribly out of control in the shuttle. Look in the tabloids for a new mysterious annoying monster prowling around West Texas.

Sorry, if this offend anyone who view this. I don't want to sound cold for saying this, but sooner or later something like this will happen. Not as often as a plane crash or a luxury liner sinking. The odds were not in thier favor today.

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Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about (_|_):
If you don't want to participate in a discussion, Snoota, then don't. Leave the rest of us who do alone.

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What discussion? Everyone "discussing it" is agreeing with each other, yet still acting like they're arguing.

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Frog had this to say about Robocop:
HI. NOBODY BUT THE MOST ANNOYING OF CONSPIRACY THEORISTS THINK THAT TERRORISTS DID THIS. WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT WHY TERRORISTS COULDN'T HAVE DONE IT WHEN EVEN CNN, WHO BLAMES EVERYTHING ON TERRORISTS NOW, SAYS IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE.

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1. I just read the thread
2. I don't have cable, thus I don't have CNN
3. Bugger off if you don't like someone who mentions something you think is covered.

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How.... Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael.... uughhhhhh:
3. Bugger off if you don't like someone who mentions something you think is covered.

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Uh, maybe it's just me.. But wasn't the whole first page bizarre terrorist theories?

Khyron said it's not out of line to investigate terrorism in a situation like this. Lyinar said it should be considered, yet they shouldn't be immediately blamed. And nobody else has said anything about blaming them, and as such they're agreeing with each other but still arguing back and forth.

Doot doot.

So long as we're being polite to each other and not hurting anyone, then what's the issue? Let us talk about what we want, jeez.

What happened was a news caster asked a representitive of the Government if they had any indications it was a terrorist act. The representitive of the Government then told said news caster that it was investigated, but quickly dismissed because it was deemed impossible given the circumstances.

Nothing else was said about it. Terrorists weren't blamed at any point, at least not by anyone with any credibility(I didn't see anyone blaming them, but I'm sure there's a few people out there ranting and raving their conspiracy theories. Like D), they were just considered.. as you said they should be.

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So quoth Lyinar Ka`Bael:
Should we start calling you the Thread Police now and only discussing what you find fit to discuss?

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IRONY.

But as this is quickly turning into another Lyinar accusing people of things she does every day thread, I shall make my retreat!

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: Khyron ]

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Speculation immediately focused on damage to Columbia's protective heat tiles that the ship suffered during launch from KSC on Jan. 16. Launch pad cameras detected a piece of insulating foam from the shuttle's external fuel tank breaking off and striking Columbia's left wing.

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There, a possible reason.

found it here

Mentioning it right away just seems more the type of knee-jerk reaction that we don't need than a real concern.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: Lyinar Ka`Bael ]

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This one time, at Lyinar Ka`Bael camp:
I think the only thing we really differ on in the whole thing, Khyron, is timing. We both agree that it should be a consideration. I just want a little solid proof that our thoughts should be turning that direction before the media panics people.

Mentioning it right away just seems more the type of knee-jerk reaction that we don't need than a real concern.

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Ah, but I disagree there; finding out if it was terrorists should be the FIRST concern. If it's deemed that yes, it was terrorists then they'll need to be able to try and track them down ASAP.

In this instance, no, it wasn't a possibility; but if it were then ascertaining that and investigating as soon as possible would be more advisable than hesitating. If it's not terrorists, great, then we should investigate the real cause, but hesitating may mean losing track of the person who may have caused it and letting them roam free to cause more crap.

In this case it wasn't terrorists, but I feel like keeping those in mind first when something bad happens is a good thing; for one it keeps us on our toes, alert in case something DOES happen (And I honestly beleive that the Al Queada won't just sit back and let things be; they want to stir up more shit), and helps us track down the person that caused it as soon as possible. Any detective or police officer will tell you that speed is a major part of an investigation.

[EDIT] And I hope others realise that this isn't some heated argument, perhaps debate, more like discussion IMO, and don't decide to jump on me saying 'STFU AND DROP IT STOP ARGUING'.

[ 02-01-2003: Message edited by: Khyron ]

But I think the media should be a little more careful what they say. There could have been some, like me for instance, where terrorism didn't even come into their thoughts until the media mentioned it. I just think we shouldn't have that worry as the public until we need to have that worry, and it's the media's responsibility to keep us from having that worry.

But I expect too much from the media. Caution doesn't sell newspapers, after all

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Lyinar Ka`Bael's account was hax0red to write:
I wasn't really talking about the investigation line but the media line. I think the investigation line should look at all possibilities and explore all avenues.

But I think the media should be a little more careful what they say. There could have been some, like me for instance, where terrorism didn't even come into their thoughts until the media mentioned it. I just think we shouldn't have that worry as the public until we need to have that worry, and it's the media's responsibility to keep us from having that worry.

But I expect too much from the media. Caution doesn't sell newspapers, after all

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They just want what will get people's attention. Terrorism is a very real threat which means it's a great scare word for getting ratings and viewers/readers.

The media would take footage of a puppy stuck in a tree, then say the puppy fell out and died because of terrorists. I ignore most mainstream media because most of them are just trying to get ratings and whatnot by exaggerating things whenever possible.

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Blindy McBlinderson attempted to be funny by writing:
Am I the only person that thinks that it is ironic that alot of the debris landed near Palestine, Texas?

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When I first saw a clip on the news I thought they were saying it blew up high in the sky over the palestinian controlled areas of Israel.

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Khyron wrote this stupid crap:
They just want what will get people's attention. Terrorism is a very real threat which means it's a great scare word for getting ratings and viewers/readers.

The media would take footage of a puppy stuck in a tree, then say the puppy fell out and died because of terrorists. I ignore most mainstream media because most of them are just trying to get ratings and whatnot by exaggerating things whenever possible.

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Exactly my point in why I think the media should be held more responsible for what they report

(and I wasn't exaggerating Frog, Soledad O'Brien brought it up with every person she and David Bloom talked to)

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Jajahotep got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
I think the media should be held more responsible for what they say also. They do tend get people in an uproar over nothing, and right now, it is to the point whenever I hear that they even think down the line of terrorism I cringe and shut it off. Not because I am not concerned, but because really they are willing to blame ANYTHING On it.

(and I wasn't exaggerating Frog, Soledad O'Brien brought it up with every person she and David Bloom talked to)

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For some reason people when you said "They do tend get people in an uproar over nothing", it brought to mind that old 'War of the World' broadcast where people thought it was real and rushed out with shotguns to repel the aliens.

Of course, back then it was unintentional; nowadays that's what they prey upon. People's stupidity. I can't really complain, since it's what I prey upon too; people who are ignorant about their PC's, screw 'em up, and call us up for me to fix. They're the ones who pay my paychecks.