quote:
OtakuPenguin probably says this to all the girls:
ALL abortion is wrong in my opinion.No, no exceptions.
None at all.
If one exception you can think of is, "Well, imagine a 12 year old raped and she could possibly die if she gives birth"
Well, if she dies, that was God's plan for her.
God's plan? Didn't you know there is no plan?
All joking aside, do you seriously believe that? If so, you need a reality check - suppose your girlfriend dies unexpectedly, would you write that off as God's plan too and be cool with it? I seriously doubt that...
ben(at)netmastering(dot)nl
quote:
OtakuPenguin had this to say about Pirotess:
ALL abortion is wrong in my opinion.No, no exceptions.
None at all.
If one exception you can think of is, "Well, imagine a 12 year old raped and she could possibly die if she gives birth"
Well, if she dies, that was God's plan for her.
Now THERE you go. At least you're consistent in your viewpoint. Cold and heartless, but consistent. Anyone who claims to be "pro-life" with a straight face should share this opinion.
quote:
OtakuPenguin had this to say about Duck Tales:
ALL abortion is wrong in my opinion.No, no exceptions.
None at all.
If one exception you can think of is, "Well, imagine a 12 year old raped and she could possibly die if she gives birth"
Well, if she dies, that was God's plan for her.
That's not an opinion. It's your belief, and it has no place in a rational discussion. Your beliefs are your own and you are free to have them, but they cannot be rationally dicussed.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
Verily, MadCat the 2nd doth proclaim:
God's plan? Didn't you know there is no plan?All joking aside, do you seriously believe that? If so, you need a reality check - suppose your girlfriend dies unexpectedly, would you write that off as God's plan too and be cool with it? I seriously doubt that...
Yes. It's called Faith MadCat, I have it in boatloads.
When my Grandma died, whom I was very close too, there was mourning, but ultimately, it was her time, deemed by God, he brought her home, that was his plan for her, to die at that point.
quote:
OtakuPenguin got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
Yes. It's called Faith MadCat, I have it in boatloads.When my Grandma died, whom I was very close too, there was mourning, but ultimately, it was her time, deemed by God, he brought her home, that was his plan for her, to die at that point.
That's not faith, that's just a sorry excuse in my book. What you said earlier was -very- cold; but I guess since God wanted you to be cold at that moment it was alright huh?
Anyway, I'm going to leave this alone. I'm not getting into an argument with bible thumpers, there's no way you can win that one.
ben(at)netmastering(dot)nl
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when OtakuPenguin said:
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with. His mind was created for his own thoughts, not yours or mine.
In your sig, right? If that holds true you really can't expect others to go through a birth that could possibly kill them, based on your religious views on predestination.
And as a woman who has in fact given birth without pain relief and did just fine, I give my two cents.
No, it's not fair to a developing sac of cells, a fetus, a child, whatever you wish to call it be aborted. I also don't think it's right that twelve year olds are out there screwing anything that walks and think "Oh, I get knocked up, I'll just go get an abortion!" or that rape victims, be it a small number of abortions, should be put through the stress of having a child with someone they probably didn't know, let alone love.
It's about choice. Everything in life is about choice. And thank goodness we cannot make the decisions for people we don't know. Because where as I don't like teeny boppers bed jumping, I would have been upset if someone told me I should abort my child (and for the record, I was).
Also, it's great to hear all these men out here with their views, but until you get pregnant, and have the choice of carrying a child to term or terminating it, it's really not your playground.
quote:
A sleep deprived OtakuPenguin stammered:
There. No beleives, only opinions, but the again, don't beleifs = opinions?
I'm quite certain Bloodsage would love to correct you on this.
quote:
Jajahotep wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
"I think we also need a small reminder of how painful giving birth is." - Spoken by someone who has never given birth themself I take it.And as a woman who has in fact given birth without pain relief and did just fine, I give my two cents.
No, it's not fair to a developing sac of cells, a fetus, a child, whatever you wish to call it be aborted. I also don't think it's right that twelve year olds are out there screwing anything that walks and think "Oh, I get knocked up, I'll just go get an abortion!" or that rape victims, be it a small number of abortions, should be put through the stress of having a child with someone they probably didn't know, let alone love.
It's about choice. Everything in life is about choice. And thank goodness we cannot make the decisions for people we don't know. Because where as I don't like teeny boppers bed jumping, I would have been upset if someone told me I should abort my child (and for the record, I was).
Also, it's great to hear all these men out here with their views, but until you get pregnant, and have the choice of carrying a child to term or terminating it, it's really not your playground.
So now, 8 out of the 9 people who have posted in this thread, and have the capabilities to mother a child, all say they're pro-choice.
And the most adamant people, who argue tooth, clawn, and nail, are the ones who will never get the chance or have to make the choice.
That's why I'm pro-choice. Because I think it's up to the woman to choose, not up to the rest of us.
quote:
OtakuPenguin had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Karnaj, for the sake of discussion, look at my post as this,"ALL Abortion is wrong, no exceptions"
There. No beleives, only opinions, but the again, don't beleifs = opinions?
No. Beliefs DO NOT equal opinions. An opinion is rational, based on objective facts about a situation. Moreover, they MUST be based on objective facts about the situation for opinions to be valid.
Beliefs are subjective. They have no such requirement for objective information. In fact, they can fly in the face of every objective fact, and they will still always hold true for the believer. If I believe that there's dragon in your garage, then that is the truth for me. Even if you take me to your garage and show me that there's no dragon inside, I can still believe that there is, and it will be true for me.
See the distinction? Beliefs are subjective and irrational by definition. Because they do not require objective facts for them to hold true for the believer, they cannot be substituted for opinion, and cannot be used in a rational discussion.
Now, on to your statement: "All abortion is wrong, no exceptions." That's a valid statement. Now, provide evidence WITHOUT resorting to your beliefs that that statement holds true.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
There was much rejoicing when MadCat the 2nd said this:
That's not faith, that's just a sorry excuse in my book. What you said earlier was -very- cold; but I guess since God wanted you to be cold at that moment it was alright huh?Anyway, I'm going to leave this alone. I'm not getting into an argument with bible thumpers, there's no way you can win that one.
Ok..so having FAITH in God's plan doesn't equal FAITH?
Wow, that's kinda messed up eh?
God deems what is right according to his plan, he can only influence actions, not directly affect them, he can't tell me to be cold about something. You were foolishy reaching for some wiseass comment.
quote:
OtakuPenguin had this to say about John Romero:
ALL abortion is wrong in my opinion.No, no exceptions.
None at all.
If one exception you can think of is, "Well, imagine a 12 year old raped and she could possibly die if she gives birth"
Well, if she dies, that was God's plan for her.
What if it was God's plan for the child to be aborted?
Hypocrite.
quote:
Khyron had this to say about pies:
So now, 8 out of the 9 people who have posted in this thread, and have the capabilities to mother a child, all say they're pro-choice.
But how many of them actually have had children?
quote:
Azizza probably says this to all the girls:
But how many of them actually have had children?
I had a child. :(9((((
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Azizza said:
But how many of them actually have had children?
More or equal to the amounts that are pro-life.
A woman should have the right to a safe and clean abortion, if, for religious or any other reason she chooses not to make use of it, that is her right as well.
quote:
OtakuPenguin had this to say about Knight Rider:
Ok..so having FAITH in God's plan doesn't equal FAITH?Wow, that's kinda messed up eh?
God deems what is right according to his plan, he can only influence actions, not directly affect them, he can't tell me to be cold about something. You were foolishy reaching for some wiseass comment.
Ah! But if he can only -influence- actions, he cannot cause death - because I can't see God influence someone's brain or body to "die".
So you just contradicted yourself; if God determines when it's time to die, that's a direct action - and by your own words, that's not possible.
So your point is?
ben(at)netmastering(dot)nl
[ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Demos ]
quote:
This one time, at Azizza camp:
But how many of them actually have had children?
Well, Lyinar and Jaja have. I think Meridian has posted that she has children, but I don't remember 100%. Aanile, Kloie, Xyrra, Aza, haven't that I know of. The rest I'm unsure about.
Alleria, the only pro-life female I saw post here, has not had children either.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent OtakuPenguin said:
God's plan for a person never involves others. Murder is never part of the plan.
I haven't read the Bible in nine years, but did he not use angels to kill sinners?
Any way you slice it, that's both murder and involves another person.
quote:
How.... Demos.... uughhhhhh:
I believe that until it develops the ability to think independently, its really no different than a machine. At that point, it doesn't have hopes or dreams, personality, or anything else that defines humanity.
They have souls though.
quote:
OtakuPenguin had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
God's plan for a person never involves others. Murder is never part of the plan.
It'll have to be - if everything is pre-determined, how do you explain that, say, a ganster shoots someone and that person dies? By your words so far, God would have had to decide that the target would have to die, and would've had to influence the gangster to shoot.
So that means God is guilty of murder.
Ouch.
ben(at)netmastering(dot)nl
quote:
OtakuPenguin obviously shouldn't have said:
God's plan for a person never involves others. Murder is never part of the plan.
You know God that well?
How can you rationally base what others should do on a belief that you, exactly you, knows how the mind of the Creator of the Universe works?
And wouldn't the rapist in the end be responsible for the girl's death? That's murder.
quote:
OtakuPenguin had this to say about dark elf butts:
God's plan for a person never involves others. Murder is never part of the plan.
Then why are all those murders happening in New York, LA, etc.? .. Guess they dont follow "God's plan", eh? Like, say, a lot of people, perhaps a good majority?
The minority should not dictate laws, beliefs, or opinions to the majority. They can express their wish for said things, but once they try to force it, I lose all respect for the person.
I can edit, really I can! [ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Delphi Aegis ]
[ 11-17-2002: Message edited by: Gevarien / Modrakien ]
quote:
OtakuPenguin's fortune cookie read:
They have souls though.
So if we concede that a fetus does not have dreams or hopes, but who's only quality that deems its humanity is its soul, then you concede that your reasons for banning abortion are based soley on relgious beliefs, which cannot be forced onto others in this country.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent OtakuPenguin said:
Influencing actions that could result in his plan being fulfilled. By directly affecting I mean, he would never point a finger and zap someone to kill them.
And we're currently operating at a staggering 100 backpedals per second...
Either be more specific in what you say, or don't say it at all. So far all points and 'facts' you have brought forward have been rendered void - care to try again?
ben(at)netmastering(dot)nl
quote:
This insanity brought to you by OtakuPenguin:
God's plan for a person never involves others. Murder is never part of the plan.
Then explain the Food Chain or War. If memory serves me right... The Almighty has started wars in alot of cultures.
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Star Collective was all like:
*Sniffle* I am so proud of my thread!
You better be.. look at what you started 
ben(at)netmastering(dot)nl
quote:
Star Collective had this to say about the Spice Girls:
*Sniffle* I am so proud of my thread!
Making everyone wait a day was actually a great idea. Good call on that one.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
This one time, at Star Collective camp:
*Sniffle* I am so proud of my thread!
You, sir, are a genius! Getting the thread to get up to a full boil before letting people actually start discussing. Brillance!
quote:
ACES! Another post by OtakuPenguin:
They have souls though.
Irrelevant. That's your belief, and...am I repeating myself?
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
Karnaj wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Making everyone wait a day was actually a great idea. Good call on that one.
Yeah, actually, it was. Took some of the fight out of the initial opinions which usually spark the really, REALLY nasty "debates."
quote:
Nobody really understood why Karnaj wrote:
Irrelevant. That's your belief, and...am I repeating myself?
But they have SOULS, Karnaj! SOULS! We can't ignore this scientifically unprovable, completely faith based "fact!" It'd be.. .. horrible!
[/sarcasm]
