"In its first major policy move, the United States has recognised the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia as “Macedonia”, the name strongly rejected by neighbour Greece for the past 13 years.

There was jubilation in Macedonia, an ally of the Americans in the Iraq war, but outrage in Greece, a Nato ally, where the news came out of the blue. The European Union also did not appear to have been informed in advance. – Agencies "

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/11/5/world/9333770&sec=world

I am a Greek Canadian, and as such I somewhat follow the political standings of my countries.
I am very very pissed off that Bush who had no fucking right to give away a GREEK name... did. HE "honours" the name Macedonia eh... conviniently after the election it is passed... so he won't lose the votes of the greeks eh...

That asshole.

All of Greece's history is being STOLEN from other countries.

Nike, in France.

Our COLUMNS... in England.

and NOW the city state of Alexander the Great, Macedonia, is being taken and given to FYROM!!!!

Greece was much larger long time ago. Greek Macedonia (the real Macedonia) stretched further up... but of course now... 48% of the former Greek city state of Macedonia is shared among Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia, Bosnia... etc etc... and 52% remains in Greece.

Alexander the Great's language wasn't understood by the Greeks eh? Let me mention that his teacher of Aristotle who was born in Macedonia is hands down GREEK. Why the fuck are FYROM people trying to take JUST one King of Macedonia away?? Could it be because they have no history? Is that why they are shit disturbers?!?!

I am pissed.

I am sharing my anger with you all. Although I am certain if you do not follow the history of Greece or are not of the culture, then this thread will not really matter to you ECers.

Thank you.

Nike fucked around with this message on 11-06-2004 at 05:22 PM.

By the way, what right do you have to complain about it anyways? Greek Canadian != Greek.

If it was the latter, you can blame the Romans for popularising them.

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Liam stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Actually Drys told you to not use your caps lock, which you failed to do again.

By the way, what right do you have to complain about it anyways? Greek Canadian != Greek.

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Shoot... I forgot... maybe I can fix it now!!

It's a goddamn name, what do you care? You don't even live in Greece.

Jens fucked around with this message on 11-06-2004 at 05:24 PM.

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This one time, at Mortious camp:
What do you mean by columns in England? Newspaper columns? Stone columns.

If it was the latter, you can blame the Romans for popularising them.

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Stone columns. I guess I cannot blame them for being jealous of how pretty they are. I'm just upset that every place in the world seems to have a piece of Greece, and now the Greek people fight so hard to keep the name of their Macedonian King, the 16 ray sun and a rich historic city state name to themselves... and again something is taken away.

It's just frustrating, that's all. I needed to vent.

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Jens had this to say about Knight Rider:
rolleyes

It's a goddamn name, what do you care? You don't even live in Greece.

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I care because I am Greek. I am very proud of the history of where I am from. Just because I was born on Canadian soil, I do not think I should forget where I came from. I am passionate about it, and that is why I care.

Rome was just a Greece wannabe.

Here's an idea for Greece: do something to remain relevant in the 21st century, instead of whining about how great they used to be.

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Bloodsage had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Get over it. Honestly.

Here's an idea for Greece: do something to remain relevant in the 21st century, instead of whining about how great they used to be.

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Seriously though. I mean, if Italy can do it, so can you guys!!!

And by you guys I mean Grecians, not the original poster.

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From the book of Mortious, chapter 3, verse 16:
What do you mean by columns in England? Newspaper columns? Stone columns.

If it was the latter, you can blame the Romans for popularising them.

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Well the Greeks did get Beaten by a bunch of Italians, who promptly stole everything, even their gods.

But I would like to remind you that locale names are re-used, often in different countries, as a matter of course. New YORK, New MEXICO, hell there's a Jerusalem in Virginia.

As for the idea that because Greece controls 52% of what was at one time (probably 2000+ years ago) Macedonia does not give it "controlling interest" in a name. This isn't a corporation. It's not like they're calling a country in Eastern Asia Macedonia, with people possessing no heritage claim to it. If what is being called Macedon now was once part of Macedonia, then they have the right to the name.

Now for the claim that Greece's history is being "stolen" by other countries (you said stolen "From" by the way...which would mean something wholly different)...Yeah. A lot of countries use ideas that come from other countries. Your point? Paper comes from Egypt and China. The language you speak is a bastardization of Latin, German, and several other tongues. Greeks didn't invent Math, either. Near as anyone can figure, it was probably the Egyptians who developed algebra first (Algebra, btw, comes from Arabic; "your" ancestors weren't even capable of retaining their mathematical heritage...it took another people to preserve it).

I'm all for being proud of where you came from. I'm very proud of the fact that my ancestors are primarily German and Native American. I can rattle off the tribe and nation of my Native American ancestors. I feel Native Americans in general were given the shaft by European settlers, including Greeks. So. Would it really do for me to bitch about what YOUR ancestors did? How YOUR ancestors stole from MY ancestors? "Why don't you pack your Greco-Roman trash up and get back to the Aegean peninsula where you belong" sound good? No? You're right. A lot has happened since those times and we're not who our ancestors are.

Get a grip, kid. You're starting to sound like a fruitcake again.

Hell, and just to make you feel worse, I never considered Alexander The Great "Greek", really.

Nevermind to mention how terrible it starts to sound when you start saying things like "I highly doubt anyone who doesn't share my cultural background can comprehend the anger I have at this moment."

It's not a freaking Holocaust.

Lashanna fucked around with this message on 11-06-2004 at 05:41 PM.

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Lashanna had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
...Hell, and just to make you feel worse, I never considered Alexander The Great "Greek", really.
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Great Greek? Wasn't like one of his first conquests uhhh Greece? I mean How could he be Greek if he had to take it over

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael was listening to Cher while typing:
Near as anyone can figure, it was probably the Egyptians who developed algebra first (Algebra, btw, comes from Arabic; "your" ancestors weren't even capable of retaining their mathematical heritage...it took another people to preserve it).

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I thought it was speculated to be Summarian if I remember correctly (Could be eqyptian, I'm not sure, you're the bookhead. ).

And I'd have to say this is the most pointless, uneducated rant I've heard in a long time. Especially someone who claims deep vested interest in thier heritage.

Most of the points you listed weren't even Grecian, neither was Macedonia if you want to get technical about it. It was originally a conquered like everything else, because it was a strategic attraction. So if you REALLY want to get anal about it, everything Greece had was stolen from somewhere else as it happened to conquer the known world of the time.

You are also confusing a few Grecian/Roman points in there as well. For one, during the middleages Greece itself spent a great deal of time progating thier culture INTO the culture of others because they were without influence.

I really need to get back into my ancient history, Rosa used to taunt me constantly with Roman lore.

Still most of this rant is either invalid, or basless to begin with.

For the record, by the way, Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian. Egypt had, by the time of the Roman conquest, long been subsumed by generations of inbred MACEDONIAN rulers who took over Alexander of Macedonia (Alexander the Great) died without an heir. So, Nike, still want to sit on your high horse about other peoples stealing your ancestral heritage?

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Nike had this to say about Duck Tales:

I am a Greek Canadian, and as such I somewhat follow the political standings of my countries.
I am very very pissed off that Bush who had no fucking right to give away a GREEK name... did. HE "honours" the name Macedonia eh... conviniently after the election it is passed... so he won't lose the votes of the greeks eh...

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That tickles me in such a way that if Loretta were to tickle me in that way, I would respond, "Oh yeah. That's the stuff."

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This one time, at Lashanna camp:
History is just that. History. You can treasure your culture. It's not like Macedonia is going to go in and tear up anything GReek they recognize, then go to the libraries armed with white out and pencils.

Hell, and just to make you feel worse, I never considered Alexander The Great "Greek", really.

Nevermind to mention how terrible it starts to sound when you start saying things like "I highly doubt anyone who doesn't share my cultural background can comprehend the anger I have at this moment."

It's not a freaking Holocaust.

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And you know you're screwed when Lashanna and I agree 100% on a political topic!

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Peter had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Great Greek? Wasn't like one of his first conquests uhhh Greece? I mean How could he be Greek if he had to take it over

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No, it was Philip of Macedon that took over Greece. Alexander just took over Persia, Egypt, and a little bit of India. Then his soldiers mutinied and told him to stop. In the trek back, a lot of them died... including him if I remember correctly.

That whole situation was horribly absurd. The territory that is now Macedonia has been calling itself Macedonia since the end of world war two, the people who live there currently have been calling themselves Macedonian all their lives, Bush didn't give the name away, you can attribute that to the forces who reorganized the remnants of monarchist Yugoslavia after the war, once the name FYROM was widely accepted there was really no prayer of people calling it anything but Macedonia.

I think you are getting a bit caught up in your national pride here, Greece has been part of the Roman empire, yet it is not called the Formerly Roman Republic of Greece any more than Pakistan is the Formerly British Republic of Pakistan, multiple places with identical or similar names are very common, look at various city names in the US, New York, New England and so on, English culture is not diminished by them. The FY part of FYROM was going to go away eventually, that was clear from the start, Macedonia isn't going to invade Greece and hopefully the whole problem will not go Cyprus and fill slow news days for ages to come.

Current Macedonia isn't really Greek, it's in large part populated by Albanians and other Slavs and has a sizable Muslim population, the Macedonian language is afaik very similar to Bulgarian and whatnot, but the reality of the matter is that there is a political entity that has had the name Macedonia for fifty-some years, weather or not their ancestors actually worshipped Zeus really doesn't play into it, you could probably create an academic shitstorm with people flinging territorial, cultural, political and legal arguments for this side or the other claiming the name but in reality Yugoslav Macedonia has called itself Macedonia for almost sixty years while Greece actually called what is today Greek Macedonia 'Northern Greece' in administrative documents, since there is no actual territorial dispute involved I wouldn't say that calling the FYROM Macedonia by right of custom detracts any more from Greek tradition (And be honest, all those things you listed there are what people still associate with Greek culture, no matter who claimed them for themselves later) than any other similarity in names between different places.

Also Demos is so smooth he's clearly sliding places.

Mod fucked around with this message on 11-06-2004 at 07:23 PM.

Besides, it doesn't really matter what Greece or Macedonia do if their troops haven't figured out how to turn yet.*

*Catch the reference, win a cookie.

Maybe you should get with the times.

By the way, if Greece is so pissed about it wy don't they go attack them and take them over? If I remember right, when I was there in 2001 the entire Macedonian Air Force consisted of eight helicopters (four of which were still on loan from the Russians since they were still training them.) Just be careful, as they also don't follow the rules of war and attack people with red cross symbols on their Hind Gunships.

UBT fucked around with this message on 11-06-2004 at 08:35 PM.

And in the interest of full disclosure, I will note that I am also part Greek, on my mom's side of the family and the whole name thing doesn't mean two shits to me.

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Bloodsage stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:

Here's an idea for Greece: do something to remain relevant in the 21st century, instead of whining about how great they used to be.

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I couldn't agree with you more. Every 'turbo Greek' Ive run into cannot seem to stop talking how totally awesome the Greeks used to be thousands of years ago.

It gets old very quick.

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Reynar had this to say about Punky Brewster:
I couldn't agree with you more. Every 'turbo Greek' Ive run into cannot seem to stop talking how totally awesome the Greeks used to be thousands of years ago.

It gets old very quick.

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It was practically the theme of the Olympics this year.

If yes, and there are arguments that Alexander the Great's language which he spoke was not understood by the other greeks, then how, pray tell, did Aristotle teach Alexander so much? Alexander spoke greek. "The emergence of Coptic (c. AD 300-c. 1400), the last phase of Egyptian, coincides both with the replacement of traditional Egyptian writing by an adaptation of the Greek alphabet and with the rise of a Christian literature." http://library.thinkquest.org/C007680/oldlanguage.html

Yes Egyptian came first, arguable so did Persian. But the language that has surpassed the test of time, and is used almost everywhere is the Greek one.
A Bulgarian Macedonian is a friend of mine, and he agrees that he is NOT Macedonian, he is a Bulgrian in a country that has become a melting pot with a name which they believe is theres. They believe the 16 ray sun is theres, Alexander the Great too... Yah OK.

"And today Slavs have been living there for a period of 1,400 years. What is more natural than that the Balkanized Slavs who have lived so long and continuously in Macedonia should be called Macedonians and their language Macedonian."
http://faq.macedonia.org/history/ancient.macedonians.html (this is a biased site btw)

Only 1400 years eh? For those who are arguing about the history of Greece, I am certain you cannot possibly twist anything around to disagree that Greece's history is much longer than that.

The only reason Bush decided he would cause a stir with the Greeks, is because the FYROM people backed him up, so he wanted to talk out of his ass and attempt to say something important.

The Europeans took Canada away from the Natives, I think thats wrong. But fuck, if someone who is of that culture doesn't care, then I am not going to rant or whine about it. THIS on the other hand is something happening inside MY culture and the beliefs I grew up with. If you want to judge me because I am passionate about something, go ahead. Your opinions in this matter are of no great importance to me. It is as if I were going to post a reply to an online game thread, something which I know nothing about. Just to be "cool" and "tough" and share my two cents with everyone. I wouldn't do it.

This on the other hand, I know.

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Bloodsage had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Get over it. Honestly.

Here's an idea for Greece: do something to remain relevant in the 21st century, instead of whining about how great they used to be.

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You mean relevent like the American Government's productive means of policing the world and showing their power?

UBT fucked around with this message on 11-06-2004 at 11:04 PM.

Aristotle was born in Macedonia I believe, but did most of his intellectual work in Greece, which is why he his considered Greek. Alexander was the king of Macedonia, and conquered Greece and the rest of the known world. He was not greek, he was macedonian. But to be honest, no one really cares. If the only thing you have to cling on to is a several millenia old warrior-king, then you are in dire straits.

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Noxhil stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Um, I don't know what this bullshit about the Greek language being used everywhere. Didn't the Greeks steal the Phoenician Alphabet?

Aristotle was born in Macedonia I believe, but did most of his intellectual work in Greece, which is why he his considered Greek. Alexander was the king of Macedonia, and conquered Greece and the rest of the known world. He was not greek, he was macedonian. But to be honest, no one really cares. If the only thing you have to cling on to is a several millenia old warrior-king, then you are in dire straits.

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In the Macedon, a city state.

So a Spartan isn't Greek eh? *rolls eyes*

I already talked about the alphabet *swears under her breath*

Why don't you talk about something you have some grasp on. And instead of talking about the history which the Greeks hold on to, why don't you answer my question on how the Americans get involved and change the world.

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Demos wrote this stupid crap:
Clearly, the only way to end this peacefully is to appease the masses with more pictures of your beautiful self.

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I concur! To this end I will gladly refuse to recognize that republic as Macedonia.

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Nike had this to say about Pirotess:
why don't you answer my question on how the Americans get involved and change the world.

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We raped the Nazis with their own bratwurst.

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How.... Nike.... uughhhhhh:
Why don't you answer my question on how the Americans get involved and change the world.

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How? By having the power to back up what we say?

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Alek impressed everyone with:
[QB]Now the Spartans, they were truly Greek.

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READ CAREFULLY!