My favorite quote:
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"Have you already unwrapped the priceless gift of virginity and given it away?" asks the Web site for the Pregnancy Resource Center of Northeast Ohio, where Watts began working part-time after she reclaimed her virginity. "Do you now feel like 'second-hand goods' and no longer worthy to be cherished? Do you ever wish you could re-wrap it and give it only to your future husband or wife? Guess what...? You can decide today to commit to abstinence, wrapping a brand-new gift of virginity to present to your husband or wife on your wedding night."
I'm nearly at a loss for words, but I will mention this: what's the big fucking deal about virginity? It just means that you're no good at fucking. Woo, that's appealing! And re-virginizing? "Please doctor! Make it so that it hurts like hell the next time I have sex! It's the only way I'll get into Heaven!"
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Karnaj said:
what's the big fucking deal about virginity? It just means that you're no good at fucking. Woo, that's appealing!
It's very special to some people. Like me.
I only lost mine recently, to someone I love very much. It's a gift, a gesture, a willingness to say to them that they're the most special lover you'll have in your life. I've had 6 or so opportunities to lose it before recently, 2 or those in my teens, 1 with a model-quality brunette. She only wanted a one night stand. No thanks. Most of the slags here would say "please hand in your penis at the door" for that one, but call me old fashioned. Very old fashioned. I know what self control is, I don't need spunk flowing into another person to remind myself I'm a man, the fact they were wet and willing is confirmation enough.
The Western World is all about being free to live your life the way you want to. I chose to give this girl.. whom I am still with and will likely propose to.. the most special gift anyone could give. A gift that cannot be given twice, no matter what this website says.
So yes, it is very special.
You seem to have overlooked that in your almost religous crusade to constantly smackdown organised religion. It's all you ever post these days.
that's not special, that's just naive.
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So quoth Mortious:
the most special gift anyone could give.
Being the first person you've stuck your dick into is the most special gift?
Now I'm curious! What do you think the second most special gift is?
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Check out the big brain on Reynar!
Being the first person you've stuck your dick into is the most special gift?Now I'm curious! What do you think the second most special gift is?
Anal, definitely anal.
I believe you'll be needing this page.
Christ, some of you people just make me shake my head in wonder sometimes.
Nina: My mom was my dad's first. It's more likely than you think, no matter how jaded you are.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Mortious said:
words
Coming from a religious background, I've frequently wondered if people who assert your view look down on others who have lost their virginity under less "ideal" circumstances. Your post does smack of superiority but I think it'd be poorly done to judge based solely on that.
Edit: in reference to your first post, not the second. Damnati fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 05:37 PM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Mortious was all like:
It's very special to some people. Like me.I only lost mine recently, to someone I love very much. It's a gift, a gesture, a willingness to say to them that they're the most special lover you'll have in your life. I've had 6 or so opportunities to lose it before recently, 2 or those in my teens, 1 with a model-quality brunette. She only wanted a one night stand. No thanks. Most of the slags here would say "please hand in your penis at the door" for that one, but call me old fashioned. Very old fashioned. I know what self control is, I don't need spunk flowing into another person to remind myself I'm a man, the fact they were wet and willing is confirmation enough.
The Western World is all about being free to live your life the way you want to. I chose to give this girl.. whom I am still with and will likely propose to.. the most special gift anyone could give. A gift that cannot be given twice, no matter what this website says.
So yes, it is very special.
You seem to have overlooked that in your almost religous crusade to constantly smackdown organised religion. It's all you ever post these days.
Sometimes it's nice to see sentiment like this.
I applaud you, Mortious. 
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Damnati said:
Coming from a religious background, I've frequently wondered if people who assert your view look down on others who have lost their virginity under less "ideal" circumstances.
Oh, no, no, definately not, I'm sorry if it came off that way.
Especially since some people lose it via pier pressure then regret it afterwards, or through rape.
Viveca: Oh, honey, I loved every man I ever fucked while I was fuckin' him.
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Nobody really understood why Mortious wrote:
Americans belittling my freedom of choice.I believe you'll be needing this page.
Christ, some of you people just make me shake my head in wonder sometimes.
Nina: My mom was my dad's first. It's more likely than you think, no matter how jaded you are.
Freedom works both ways you know; we're free to mock you for it as well.
If you don't want people razzing you, I suggest you keep your personal life off the internet. Otherwise, expect to get hassled when you pipe up with weird things like this because *gasp* not everyone thinks like you.
As for the choice of losing virginity, I am of the belief that the first person isnt always 'the one'. It wasnt for me. But that's not to say that going crazy and screwing whoever comes along is a good idea either but there is no reason to think less of a person because they may have made a wrong choice in their selection of their first lover.
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Aw, geez, I have Mortious all over myself!
Stuff
Wonderful. You told me exactly nothing. I know that it's special to some people. What I can't fathom is why it's such a big fucking deal. Why do you consider virginity such a special gift? Is it just because it's the first? 'Coz that's pretty lame, IMNSHO. Do you attach the same meaning to other firsts when it comes to sex acts or natural bodily functions? Or is it just because God said so?
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
Like, if you found your Christmas gift hidden in your parents room and opened it on December 20th, you'd still be happy, but you wouldn't be as happy as if anticipated the gift for the next 5 days and opened it on December 25th. At least that's the theory. In reality, it's all inside your head and you will still be done playing with it by January 15th.
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Mortious attempted to be funny by writing:
Americans belittling my freedom of choice.I believe you'll be needing this page.
Christ, some of you people just make me shake my head in wonder sometimes.
At risk of sounding like I'm parroting Reynar:
What the fuck does being American have anything to do with anything?
Put your opinion on the internet, and people are free to disagree with it. I believe that's a freedom you have here too by the way.
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Verily, Blindy. doth proclaim:
It's only magical because you made it magical.Like, if you found your Christmas gift hidden in your parents room and opened it on December 20th, you'd still be happy, but you wouldn't be as happy as if anticipated the gift for the next 5 days and opened it on December 25th. At least that's the theory. In reality, it's all inside your head and you will still be done playing with it by January 15th.
so, how's the marriage by the way?
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Blindy. wrote this stupid crap:
It's only magical because you made it magical.Like, if you found your Christmas gift hidden in your parents room and opened it on December 20th, you'd still be happy, but you wouldn't be as happy as if anticipated the gift for the next 5 days and opened it on December 25th. At least that's the theory. In reality, it's all inside your head and you will still be done playing with it by January 15th.
That's a stupid mentality.
In reality, everything is all inside your head or someone else's head.
Most of society today doesn't think as I do about this certain aspect of life. I understand that.
I should've been born a dashing victorian gentleman. I do rather like suits and tophats, pip pip.
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Mortious had this to say about dark elf butts:
It's very special to some people. Like me.I only lost mine recently, to someone I love very much. It's a gift, a gesture, a willingness to say to them that they're the most special lover you'll have in your life. I've had 6 or so opportunities to lose it before recently, 2 or those in my teens, 1 with a model-quality brunette. She only wanted a one night stand. No thanks. Most of the slags here would say "please hand in your penis at the door" for that one, but call me old fashioned. Very old fashioned. I know what self control is, I don't need spunk flowing into another person to remind myself I'm a man, the fact they were wet and willing is confirmation enough.
The Western World is all about being free to live your life the way you want to. I chose to give this girl.. whom I am still with and will likely propose to.. the most special gift anyone could give. A gift that cannot be given twice, no matter what this website says.
So yes, it is very special.
You seem to have overlooked that in your almost religous crusade to constantly smackdown organised religion. It's all you ever post these days.
That's quite sweet of you. I felt the same way myself.
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Karnaj said:
Or is it just because God said so?
Religion doesn't have anything to do with it for me. Just personal choice. I don't agree with organised religion either, to be honest.
Reynar: Why do you consider it wierd? 
In past times, almost everyone of the middle class upwards thought as I do. I'm not arguing, I'm seeking to understand why society today is so sex-centered.
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Mortious attempted to be funny by writing:
Religion doesn't have anything to do with it for me. Just personal choice. I don't agree with organised religion either, to be honest.Reynar: Why do you consider it wierd?
In past times, almost everyone of the middle class upwards thought as I do. I'm not arguing, I'm seeking to understand why society today is so sex-centered.
Virginity also used to be an assurance that an eligible young lady wasn't carrying another man's child, which could thoroughly muck up inheritance and a family's reputation.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Its like going to watch your first fireworks display. Do you want to watch it with just anyone, or do you want to watch it with those closest to you? Sure you will still enjoy the fireworks either way, but who you are with makes it more special to you, makes it more of a cherished memory. Xian fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 07:18 PM.
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Nobody really understood why Mortious wrote:
Reynar: Why do you consider it wierd?
I think reframing your question might help you understand other people's mindsets. Instead of, "why are people's mindsets unlike they were in the past?" one might ask, "why did we have that mindset in the first place? What makes it so special?"
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Mortious screamed this from the crapper:
Reynar: Why do you consider it wierd?
Because sex is how we continue the species. It's a very strong instinct, as it must be for our continued survival. Repression of this instinct to Victorian levels of disdain that you consider so laudable is the aberration, not the other way around.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Mortious wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Oh, no, no, definately not, I'm sorry if it came off that way.Especially since some people lose it via pier pressure then regret it afterwards, or through rape.
Those docks make me do stuff all the time, it's quite terrible really.
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Willias - Willias = 0:
so, how's the marriage by the way?
The wedding's in June, and I'm very excited about it.
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Mortiousing:
It's a "we'll agree to disagree" moment.Most of society today doesn't think as I do about this certain aspect of life. I understand that.
I should've been born a dashing victorian gentleman. I do rather like suits and tophats, pip pip.
That's the whole thing, though.
I absolutely respect the view of sex as something sacred. I'm one of the few self-professed atheists in this thread and I even hold this view to an extent, although through personal preference rather than creed. I've had sex with girls that I did not intend to get into a relationship with, but I never felt very good about it, and I simply don't do it anymore.
The trouble comes when people simply assume that, because sex is sacred to them, this is the only possible correct view and that everyone else would be happier if they had it forced upon them.
Sex is a basic biological need, any value placed on it beyond that is strictly subjective. It's entirely possible to be happy, virtuous, and excessively promiscuous.
These "born again virgins" seem to have had guilt over their actions pounded into them by a social group that has taught them that they are sinners and must repent. Just read the quote from the woman:
"I felt really bad from a religious standpoint...
Her religion is the first thing she cites as the reason for her feelings of guilt.
"...My thoughts were really clouded because I was so emotionally bonded with my boyfriend. That overshadowed my religious world."
The fact that her religion, in forcing this entirely subjective portrayal of sex, cast a shadow over her otherwise apparently very positive relationship with her boyfriend fills me with secular rage.
This is why this article is so infuriating: That some people feel they can not only force their chosen way of life on another person, but go on to fill them with guilt and make them miserable if that person begins to desire another way of life.
If nobody had forced their high value of virginity on this woman by way of her religion, she would not have had to suffer such guilt and would have been much happier. She might even still be with her original boyfriend! Maradon! fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 07:42 PM.
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At least Gadani isn't Somthor:
That's a stupid mentality.In reality, everything is all inside your head or someone else's head.
Actually, everything is all inside your head because other people might not even exist. But that was my point. You can make a big deal out of anything. I have no doubt that Mort was very happy that he saved himself, just like I have no doubt that Karnaj or I didn't miss anything by not saving ourselves. The January 15th thing was just supposed to be distastefully funny.
Edit: and yet again I find myself in agreement with Maradon about something. Shit. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 07:45 PM.
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Naimah said:
Those docks make me do stuff all the time, it's quite terrible really.
Yeah, I re-read what I typed and had to laugh.
Typing too quickly while rather tired ftl.
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Check out the big brain on Karnaj!
Because sex is how we continue the species. It's a very strong instinct, as it must be for our continued survival. Repression of this instinct to Victorian levels of disdain that you consider so laudable is the aberration, not the other way around.
So, Karnaj, I'm curious.
Sex is an instinct, yeah? So, how about this:
1: The goal of sex is to help our species continue on.
2: If we want our species to continue, we must therefore have sex and make babies.
3: Unless trying to/willing to have a kid, people use various contraceptives while sexing it up.
So, then. People are more often having sex not to make kids, but having sex as a pleasurable activity. So, then, the people choosing to not have sex until marriage are not failing to keep the species strong, but are instead choosing to not take part in a pleasurable activity.
Provided they want children and have unprotected sex in marriage, they're doing more for the continuation of the species than the guy who never settles down and has a new sexual partner each month (while actively attempting to prevent children).
I'm not saying that I choose to remain a virgin until marriage, but just trying to provide an argument here. Falaanla Marr fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 08:45 PM.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Karnaj said:
Repression of this instinct to Victorian levels of disdain that you consider so laudable is the aberration, not the other way around.
Been taking class about the History of Sex in the US Until 1860 and we've spent the past few weeks talking about Victorian ideals. What they talked about and what they did were two very very different things, especially in every group except middle/upper class white women and even then things went down that most communities just ignored.
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Falaanla Marr needs to learn to type:
So, Karnaj, I'm curious.Sex is an instinct, yeah? So, how about this:
1: The goal of sex is to help our species continue on.
2: If we want our species to continue, we must therefore have sex and make babies.
3: Unless trying to/willing to have a kid, people use various contraceptives while sexing it up.So, then. People are more often having sex not to make kids, but having sex as a pleasurable activity. So, then, the people choosing to not have sex until marriage are not failing to keep the species strong, but are instead choosing to not take part in a pleasurable activity.
Provided they want children and have unprotected sex in marriage, they're doing more for the continuation of the species than the guy who never settles down and has a new sexual partner each month (while actively attempting to prevent children).
I'm not saying that I choose to remain a virgin until marriage, but just trying to provide an argument here.
Sex is supposed to be pleasurable, just like eating fatty food is supposed to taste good. But our instincts are based on the demands of ancestral environment of 65,000 years ago, when having kids all the time and being drawn to the food that had the most energy in it was important, not modern society.
Realize this: instincts only change when the instinct becomes a liability to the capability for an organism influenced by that instinct to live long enough to reproduce, or at least when they affect the quantity or quality of that organism's progeny that survive long enough to reproduce.
Not sure if that part really addresses your point, I just want to clear up misconceptions.
I think what you're arguing is that waiting until marriage and then purposefully reproducing is doing more to continue the species than having protected or unprotected sex until marriage and then purposefully reproducing. While it may be true that you run a higher risk of contracting a reproduction hazarding STD in the pre-marriage sex run-up, that potential risk to passing on your genes is probably a wash versus the number of unexpected pregnancies that end up in a child who carries on your genes.
Furthermore, having protected sex until marriage then purposefully reproducing should have no functional impact on the quantity or quality of your progeny.
So no.
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Blindy. was all like:I think what you're arguing is that waiting until marriage and then purposefully reproducing is doing more to continue the species than having protected or unprotected sex until marriage and then purposefully reproducing.
Uh, not at all what I'm saying. Let me rephrase it for you. We have two guys, Guy A and Guy B.
Guy A chooses to not have sex until marriage. He is giving up a pleasurable activity before marriage. However, he does want children and continues the species.
Guy B chooses to never get married. He has sex every night, with a new girl he just met at the bar. He uses protection each time, and does everything he can to prevent having children. As I said in my post, he never settles down, and always tries to PREVENT children.
Guy A is doing more to continue the species than Guy B. Using the "Sex is an instinct so it is wrong to not have sex" argument is flawed when someone is claiming that sex is instinctual so we can continue the species.
I'm not saying Guy B ever has children, he actively tries to avoid it. That seems to be where you got hung up. You must have missed the phrase "never settles down"
There is no way the sex instinct could have modified to cope with birth control yet, birth control just hasn't been around long enough. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 10:33 PM.
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Maradon! isn't in Kansas anymore:
Oddly enough, it's pretty obvious that nobody in this thread ever read The God Delusion, because Dawkins covers almost everything discussed in this thread with a great deal of detail.
I read some excerpts.
