Of course, as you probably know, this is a P4 2.0GHz. Talk about false advertising. I don't know who they think they're shitting here, most gamers know that AMD > Intel. Oh well.
Yes, that's right, hot live sex!
quote:
Mortious Shadowstalker had this to say about Optimus Prime:
The P4 2GHz is actually ok (and I stress the word "ok", not "good"). Anything under that is in the "shit zone".
Wow. Uh, you know, I liked it when people appreciated that they HAD computers. Like me. I'm darn lucky I even still have my 455mhz. :P
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Soldar had this to say about Punky Brewster:
I love my Pentium II 300. With it's entire 64 megs of RAM.
Not for SoL you don't 
Infact, that wouldn't run EQ too well pre-Luclin..
My P2 300 with 128mb of ram didn't run it too well... [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Kegwen Tabibito ]
I honestly have never seen the Voodoo4 perform, so I have nothing to say about it. 
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Kinanik had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
I have a P4 and have had absolutly no problems with it, or my computer in general. I think it was just some biased test that started it. how many of you P4 haters actually have a P4?
Correction: We don't hate P4. We just know that Intel markets an inferior product for a higher price. They don't tell the public this. That's our problem with the P4 and Intel.
I don't speak for everyone here, but I believe that's the general gripe with Intel... [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Kegwen Tabibito ]
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Kinanik had this to say about Captain Planet:
I have a P4 and have had absolutly no problems with it, or my computer in general. I think it was just some biased test that started it. how many of you P4 haters actually have a P4?
I don't have a P4 because I prefer to pay less for a better product as opposed to more for an inferior product. It wasn't a biased test, AMD kicks Intel's ass or atleast ties it at a much lower clock speed. Almost every test shows this. Also, your RAM costs a lot more than mine.
Yes, that's right, hot live sex!
It is not faster than a pentuim it is about the same speed. And it is less stable. If people want to cheer on the underdog that is fine. But don't go around say the other product sucks just because you feel like it.
A few facts.
1: Intel and AMD chips are almost identical in speed. They flipflop from computer to computer. We are talking a couple percent AT BEST.
2: AMD is slightly cheaper then intel. And by slightly I am talking about 25 bucks or so. Check out pricewatch for this. a 1900 AMD Athlon is $242. And Intel P4 1900 is $264.
3: Intel chips are slightly more stable and have fewer compatibility issues than AMD. For a VERy recent example I point to Shadows of Luclin and the AMD issues there. Not the best example perhaps but it will do.
4: No system Admin in his right mind would use AMD in a server. I have seen people try it and I have laughed at them when they have to come in at 4:00am to replace the server because the AMD can't hack it. and/or the software is having problems with it.
I choose the stability over the minimal price savings.
You can argue all you want but the above stated are FACTS.
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Soldar was all like:
I don't have SoL.
I can always give it the test. How well does graphic heavy games run on this machine.
Last christmas I recieved a larger Hard Drive and a Voodoo4 (don't start telling how bad that is. Just don't.)
And this year I'm hoping for RAM.
I won't ask for it, but I can hope.
PIII 700, 512Mb of RAM, 64Mb GeForce2Ti card.... And SoL still chokes me in some areas with everything as turned down as I can get it.
Granted if I turned off all the new models and shit it would probally scream..... 
I don't wanna get into this because it comes out with fake numbers and a bunch of shit every time, so let's just drop it.
Yes, that's right, hot live sex!That's AMD's entire campaign.
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We were all impressed when Azizza wrote:
You can argue all you want but the above stated are FACTS.
No offense, but could you please state the source of said "FACTS"?
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Azizza had this to say about dark elf butts:
You people could not be more full of shit if you tried. You may as well sit here and ask people to flame you.
If anyone is going to get it for false advertising it is AMD for thier 1800+ naming system. It is not 1800+ it is 1400 or something like that..It is not faster than a pentuim it is about the same speed. And it is less stable. If people want to cheer on the underdog that is fine. But don't go around say the other product sucks just because you feel like it.
A few facts.
1: Intel and AMD chips are almost identical in speed. They flipflop from computer to computer. We are talking a couple percent AT BEST.2: AMD is slightly cheaper then intel. And by slightly I am talking about 25 bucks or so. Check out pricewatch for this. a 1900 AMD Athlon is $242. And Intel P4 1900 is $264.
3: Intel chips are slightly more stable and have fewer compatibility issues than AMD. For a VERy recent example I point to Shadows of Luclin and the AMD issues there. Not the best example perhaps but it will do.
4: No system Admin in his right mind would use AMD in a server. I have seen people try it and I have laughed at them when they have to come in at 4:00am to replace the server because the AMD can't hack it. and/or the software is having problems with it.
I choose the stability over the minimal price savings.
You can argue all you want but the above stated are FACTS.
Totally agree!
Ozius
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WaisztarrozBarrimas had this to say about John Romero:
The 1800+ is 1.53GHz. Stability problems? I have had no serious problems with AMD. How about overclocking. How far can you overclock your Pentium? I also noticed you didn't address ROMBUS RAM vs DDR.I don't wanna get into this because it comes out with fake numbers and a bunch of shit every time, so let's just drop it.
RAMBUS is in the same boat. Speed increase is slight. (although I say not enough to justify the price untill recently) However your argument holds NO water because newer P4s can use DDR ram. So I didn't even bother to include that in the argument.
But basicly DDR is better for quick small bits of Data. RAMBUS is faster with Big applications and for servers.
Overclocking. A task for the true computer idiots. Here lets take something made to run at one speed and see what happens when we double it. Yeah what do you think will happen?
No self respecting computer shop is going to recommend/help/talk to you, if you overclock. I dont' care if you are an AMD or an intel fan. This is stupid and dangerous.
My buddy that runs a local shop has this to say about overclocking.
"Overclocking is about as stupid as putting jet fuel in your car. It may make it go a little faster. But after a short time your are going to blow up."
His policy is this. If a computer is brought to him overclocked, or if somone asks him about overclocking he will no longer serve that person. They are either
A: to cheap to buy what they want.
B: To stupid to own a computer
or
C: Think they know something when they really don't
I think it is All of the above.
Overclocking is safe to a certain point. Only stupid people go beyond that point, but it's safe to overclock somewhat. Wait, I thought we ended this conversation.
Yes, that's right, hot live sex!quote:
Azizza thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
You people could not be more full of shit if you tried. You may as well sit here and ask people to flame you.
If anyone is going to get it for false advertising it is AMD for thier 1800+ naming system. It is not 1800+ it is 1400 or something like that..
if i remember correctly, changed to a 'performance system' instead of the normal speed, so people don't think faster is better. EXAMPLE:
they name it a blahblahb blah 1900 and it's 1.54GHZ. basicly that means it performs as good as a 1900MHZ prosseser.
quote:
It is not faster than a pentuim it is about the same speed. And it is less stable. If people want to cheer on the underdog that is fine. But don't go around say the other product sucks just because you feel like it.A few facts.
1: Intel and AMD chips are almost identical in speed. They flipflop from computer to computer. We are talking a couple percent AT BEST.2: AMD is slightly cheaper then intel. And by slightly I am talking about 25 bucks or so. Check out pricewatch for this. a 1900 AMD Athlon is $242. And Intel P4 1900 is $264.
3: Intel chips are slightly more stable and have fewer compatibility issues than AMD. For a VERy recent example I point to Shadows of Luclin and the AMD issues there. Not the best example perhaps but it will do.
4: No system Admin in his right mind would use AMD in a server. I have seen people try it and I have laughed at them when they have to come in at 4:00am to replace the server because the AMD can't hack it. and/or the software is having problems with it.
I choose the stability over the minimal price savings.
You can argue all you want but the above stated are FACTS.
1: of course they're the same speed but AMD chips PERFORM BETTER.
2: look at some of the other prices.
3: AMD is MUCH more stable then Intel.
4: hahahah...you're funny
BTW, where did you get those 'fact's?
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WaisztarrozBarrimas had this to say about John Romero:
Going to blow up? That's the funniest thing I've heard this week, thanks for the joke, Azziza.Overclocking is safe to a certain point. Only stupid people go beyond that point, but it's safe to overclock somewhat. Wait, I thought we ended this conversation.
/bonk
He didn't mean the computer would actually blow up. But it can and will overheat to the point where the system can be damaged. AMD run way to hot in my experience anyway so overclocking them is just stupid.
And no overclocking is not safe up to any point.
So tell me what is you basis for this knowlege? What do you do that gives you such knowlege of the workings of computers?
I build computers. Not just for myself but to make money. I build AMD systems and reccomend them to people in some cases. All depends on what they want.
I am also a Certified Network Engineer, and head up the IT department for a large company. The only place you will see AMD in here is a couple nonproductive machines.
These machines have to run stable no matter what. So it is 1GH+ intel and Win2k with Windows XP on a couple. They can't go down or BATF will be breathing down our necks. Some machines I built myself others were prebuilt Dell Managed PCs.
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Azizza had this to say about John Romero:
Overclocking. A task for the true computer idiots. Here lets take something made to run at one speed and see what happens when we double it. Yeah what do you think will happen?
uhh...it only gets destroyed if you don't know what you're doing. it is NOT for computer idiots. also, only a MORON would try to double the speed. there ARE limits for overclocking.
quote:
No self respecting computer shop is going to recommend/help/talk to you, if you overclock. I dont' care if you are an AMD or an intel fan. This is stupid and dangerous.
quote:
My buddy that runs a local shop has this to say about overclocking."Overclocking is about as stupid as putting jet fuel in your car. It may make it go a little faster. But after a short time your are going to blow up."
quote:
His policy is this. If a computer is brought to him overclocked, or if somone asks him about overclocking he will no longer serve that person. They are eitherA: to cheap to buy what they want.
B: To stupid to own a computer
or
C: Think they know something when they really don'tI think it is All of the above.
conclusion:
Azizza has obviously never actually used an AMD and compare it to a Intel in some tests (like sisoft sandra, no, you can't have the link), he's also never o/c'ed, or has o/c'ed without any knowledge to do so, or has never seen some of the tests on the web. (for example: my AMD K6-2/500 performs better, and gets better results in tests, then my bro's celeron 600(when he had it) [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Kolak ]
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Kolak had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
BTW, where did you get those 'fact's?
I could ask the same question of you.
And please don't point me to AMD,s website or some second rate Review site. Show me Cnet, ZDnet, or some other respected site. Not "Uncle Tom's house of hadware"
First, AMD isn't the optimal choice for servers. You're correct.
On the issue of RAM, you're right.
Overclocking is for risktakers. If you feel like risking your processor for a bit of extra performance, go for it. AMD owners, you know your processor runs hot. If your heatsink/fan fails, your processor is toast in less than 10 seconds.
Back to the matter at hand. Yes, the increase is slight, but one has to consider the numbers. The Athlon XP 1900+ is something around 1.65ghz and is shown through standard benchmarking to be atleast slightly superior in most areas. Especially gaming.
quote:
THG:
AMD's future revolves around "Performance Matters More Than MHz" and the question if customers are going to understand and accept it.
AMD targets the end-user. Not corporate servers, not the average Joe, and not large companies such as Gateway and Dell. Many "end-users" are gamers. Many gamers are young and have limited budgets (see: ME). My Athlon Thunderbird 1ghz runs smooth as silk even on this motherboard on an ALi Magick chipset...
They're cheaper and superior, perfect for their target audience. P4 isn't a bad chip by any standards, don't get me wrong. Personally, though, I'd rather get more bang for my buck. AMD provided this.
quote:
THG
Now we have finally reached the funkiest news in this article. I already spoke about it before, AMD needs to do something about the huge clock frequency gap between its Athlon processors and Pentium 4. Shortly before the news arrived at my desk I was discussing this very issue with my editor Frank Voelkel, who is still obsessed by the mission to teach the masses that clock speed ain't saying nothing about performance. I told him that I gave up on it. Endless regurgitations of "don't just buy clock speed! AMD's Athlon is often faster than Pentium 4 even though it runs at a lower clock!" makes a man tired, especially someone who is struggling to get the word out for more than 5 years (with very few brakes). So I said "Frankly, the best thing AMD could do is bring back the good old PR-rating." Frank didn't like it. We all hated those PR-numbers used by AMD, Cyrix, IBM and Centaur a few years ago, because they were terribly misleading.Still, what choice has AMD got? How much do you think a marketing campaign would cost that would make all those potential customers understand that Athlon at 1.5 GHz is faster than Pentium 4 at 2 GHz? I don't even think it would be possible. When Intel's engineers designed Pentium 4 for high clock frequencies they knew they had AMD by the balls. So AMD HAS TO fall back onto the good old PR-rating idea unless it wants to lose its balls.
continued...
It's hard to communicate something like this to a community that has grown used to judging performance by the amount of mhz...
Err, anyway...
quote:
Azizza had this to say about dark elf butts:
I could ask the same question of you.
And please don't point me to AMD,s website or some second rate Review site. Show me Cnet, ZDnet, or some other respected site. Not "Uncle Tom's house of hadware"
In my experience, Cnet and ZDnet have been rather biased towards Intel products. I haven't even seen a full benchmarking from them...
THG isn't "second rate". If you're judging dependability on size and popularity of the website, then... 
Just to let you know. [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Elethi ]
quote:
Azizza had this to say about dark elf butts:
I could ask the same question of you.
And please don't point me to AMD,s website or some second rate Review site. Show me Cnet, ZDnet, or some other respected site. Not "Uncle Tom's house of hadware"
shut up, THG is a good site, i got my facts from several years of experience, lots of o/c'ing and hardware sites, that i won't list because they don't need anymore people telling them to not do what they're doin'
quote:
Kegwen Tabibito had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
More text than I really want to quoteURL]
Lots of good points also. I choose to use a system that I could do anything with. That is why I choose the P4. I don't dislike the AMD. I just don't agree with the idea that it is the best thing since sliced bread. It is good but has a narrower Target audience and fewer overall uses.
I am just tired of the bashing from people who honesly (and no offence guys) know nothing about computers on any level than the ability to build one. Which is really simple ok. Sorry but most people can do it, that does not make you an expert. Drysart is what I would call an expert. I consider myself an expert on some levels but not others. Most of the posts here have been from people who do nothing but read reviews and bye the hype.
AMD's new processor outperforms a 2GHz P4 when running mainstream and high-end productivity applications, but is second-best when it comes to 3D modelling .New tests in ZDNet's labs have shown that a system built around AMD's latest chip--the Athlon XP 1800+--running at 1.53GHz can outperform a 2GHz Intel P4 system when running mainstream and high-end productivity applications. However, the P4 system would be better suited to workstation-class applications that have been optimised for its SSE2 instructions.
(my brother has a computer worthy of running the computer. It be good.)
quote:
Elethi wrote this stupid crap:
Tom's Hardware Guide is acctually a very reputable site, recommened by several computer publications. They give good, honest reviews, and explain the technical workings also.Just to let you know.
Uhh hate to show any ignorance here but what is Toms Hardware? I have never seen it before.. Link please.
I just pulled that name out of my ass.. LOL
Hey, no problem, just sticking up for the litle guys.
Admitedly, they are a little biased toward AMD, but they report things fairly.
Tom's Hardware [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Elethi ]
[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Kolak ]
quote:
ZDnet article
quote:
Just guess:
Chips are getting smaller and faster at such a rate that youd think the manufacturers were in a frenzy to produce Xmas elves (sorry, just trying to get into the holiday spirit here). Both IBM and AMD had processor breakthrough announcements today and AMDs is a new Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor (CMOS) transistor that achieves what the company says demonstrates the fastest switching speeds ever. AMD has also developed a device with a 15-nanometer gate length (0.015 micron), which is a prototype for the transistors that it plans to use to power future generations of microprocessors. AMD says that the new development shows the capability for a twenty-fold increase in the number of transistors per chip and a ten-fold increase in microprocessor performance by the end of the decade. The company will unveil its research in a paper to be presented in Washington D.C. today at the 2001 International Electron Devices Meeting (IEDM) for semiconductor engineers and scientists. AMD's 15-nm prototype that is said to lead to the companys proposed 30-nanometer process generation, which the company plans to have in production by approximately 2009. On AMD's roadmap, the 30-nm (0.03-micron) technology will make use of 300-mm wafers. The 15-nm transistor is a CMOS-based, 0.8-Volt device, designed to handle switching speeds of 0.3-ps, or 3.33 trillion switches per second.
Improvement is coming soon. I don't plan on building another system anytime soon, so I'll just wait and see how this unfolds.
[a bunch of jibber jabber claiming to know stuff about computers but all his points contradict each other]
[smile faces]
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Azizza was all like:
Uhh hate to show any ignorance here but what is Toms Hardware? I have never seen it before.. Link please.I just pulled that name out of my ass.. LOL
ROFL! They're biased towards AMD because they have superior performance in most of their tests...
Intel is more even on integer and FP and more stable ill say that
Az is right no system admin would put a AMD in a server.
But the people who DO are normally gamers who use that floating point and also most times know what they are doing(i work tech support and said that? am i drunk?)
All in all it comes down to.
AMD = Gamer chip
Intel = Jack of all CPUs
Just my 2 cents
