quote:
Avylen wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
The facts people, agrue from facts and stop throwing around opinions. Anyways, the fact of the matter is P4s do have a faster processor speed, any yahoo who can see will know that. What AMD has better is Bus speed, in otherwords it can get information moving around faster. A.k.a. anything which require chunking through loads of data (Being a Server) AMD will be worse at. Anything which require quick movement of data around (Moving things to and from RAM etc.) AMD will be better at.
I thought AMD bus speed was stuck at 266 right now?
quote:
Avylen wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
The facts people, agrue from facts and stop throwing around opinions. Anyways, the fact of the matter is P4s do have a faster processor speed, any yahoo who can see will know that. What AMD has better is Bus speed, in otherwords it can get information moving around faster. A.k.a. anything which require chunking through loads of data (Being a Server) AMD will be worse at. Anything which require quick movement of data around (Moving things to and from RAM etc.) AMD will be better at.
I thought AMD bus speed was stuck at 266 right now?
quote:
Azzia: 4: No system Admin in his right mind would use AMD in a server. I have seen people try it and I have laughed at them when they have to come in at 4:00am to replace the server because the AMD can't hack it. and/or the software is having problems with it.
I wouldn't use a P4 either though. With my choice of servers I would be using a Sun. Although those are a bit pricy.
Following information is supported by MadOnion.com:
7 of the top 10 scores for computers running a Geforce2 Ultra were using AMD chips. I realize that this is a fairly biased and incomplete analysis of the issue , but this data is just as valid as almost any other you will find.
Quite honestly this is a silly argument. Either you pay for the guys dancing in colorful clean suits or you don't. Ignorance is bliss.
quote:
Naimah thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
I wouldn't use a P4 either though. With my choice of servers I would be using a Sun. Although those are a bit pricy.
Actuallyno. It all depends on what you want. SUN is good for some things bad for others. Just like Linux, or FreeBSD(my personal choice)
quote:
Avylen had this to say about Optimus Prime:
The facts people, agrue from facts and stop throwing around opinions. Anyways, the fact of the matter is P4s do have a faster processor speed, any yahoo who can see will know that. What AMD has better is Bus speed, in otherwords it can get information moving around faster. A.k.a. anything which require chunking through loads of data (Being a Server) AMD will be worse at. Anything which require quick movement of data around (Moving things to and from RAM etc.) AMD will be better at.
You know where to get 266 ram? Please tell me where I can get this stuff. I havn't been able to find any.
) Anybody who visits the IRC chat rooms can vouch for its stability.2) I've got a fully functional dual Athlon XP-1800+ system w/ Geforce 3 Ti-500 card, 512 mb of ram, 60 gb harddrive, and some other nifty extras on the way for under $1500. I'd like to see you match that Price for an Intel system.
3) The reason megahertz are less important with the Athlons is because of the simple fact that they use each clock cycle more efficiently than the Intel equivalent.
P4 vs Athlon... who would win?
Someone besides you! The P4 is overpriced, but athlon motherboards are overpiced too. Who really cares about a 4% difference in speed between the flagship processors anyway?
quote:
Rabidbunnylover had this to say about Optimus Prime:
[QB]
2) I've got a fully functional dual Athlon XP-1800+ system w/ Geforce 3 Ti-500 card, 512 mb of ram, 60 gb harddrive, and some other nifty extras on the way for under $1500. I'd like to see you match that Price for an Intel system.QB]
From Gateway.
Floppy Drive: 3.5" 1.44MB diskette drive
Keyboard: Multi-function Keyboard
Case: Gateway Micro-Tower Case
Controller: Integrated Ultra ATA Controller
Anti-Virus Software: Norton Anti-Virus
Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 1.7GHz
Memory: 512MB SDRAM (2-256MB modules)
Hard Drive: 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive
CD-ROM: 16x/48x DVD-ROM Drive ........[
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Application Software: Microsoft® Works Suite - Including Microsoft® Word and Encarta
Video: 64MB DDR ATI RADEON 8500G AGP Graphics with TV-Out and DVI (Windows® XP ONLY)
Video Capture: None Selected
Mouse: Logitech PS/2 Wheel Mouse and Gateway mouse pad
Sound System: Integrated Stereo Audio
Network Adapter: Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Limited Warranty Program: 3 Year Limited Parts / Labor / Support
Price: $1479
Note that this also includes a 3 year warrenty and really good tech support.
quote:
Azizza wrote this stupid crap:
From Gateway.
...
Video: 64MB DDR ATI RADEON 8500G AGP Graphics with TV-Out and DVI (Windows® XP ONLY)
...
Sound System: Integrated Stereo Audio
No thanks... The above mentioned killed my interest... [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Kegwen Tabibito ]
[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Kegwen Tabibito ]
quote:
Kegwen Tabibito stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
No thanks... The above mentioned killed my interest...
LOL actually mine too. I hate that card. But I was in a hurry. Went back and looked. Same price for the GeForce3.
Oh and I forgot to put it in but that system also has a 16x burner.
Some people like AMD, because they use it, and it works for them.
Some people like Intel, because they use it, and it works for them.
There.
You aren't going to convice someone of something they spent $300 on after a lot {Or no} research.
quote:
Azizza wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
I thought AMD bus speed was stuck at 266 right now?
It is, for DDR SDRAM. The bus speed for RDRAM is 800 MHz, I believe. The difference is the latency on the RAM. RDRAM's latency is so terrible that it slows down your system, thus, the P4's need a sizable clock speed advantage if they want to out run an Athlon. Intel has said that they are working on a DDR SDRAM chipset for Pentium 4's, but I think at the moment Rambus has them by the balls in a contract, so they are pretty much screwed.
You've been making arguments for the P4 for awhile now, but you've never been able to show any decent benchmarks where a the fastest P4 can beat the fastest Athlon. It's widely accepted that the Athlon XP 1900+ can and will out run a Pentium 4 at 2 GHz. And the Athlon XP 1900+ is only clocked at 1.6 GHz. That's a 400 MHz difference, which is nothing to laugh at. Simply put, the Pentium 4's cannot hope to compete with an Athlon pound for pound. AMD hopes to have a 2 GHz Athlon XP out by early next year, while Intel's plans are to up the P4 to 2.2 GHz. That'll close the gap even more.
In short, Athlon r0x0rz Pentium.
-Tok
EDIT:I swear, I can use this keyboard thingy [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Karnaj ]
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
Karnaj had this to say about Pirotess:
PC-2700 RAM operates at 333Mhz FSB.EDIT:I swear, I can use this keyboard thingy
Just another drop in the pot, then. Intel needs to get it's act together fast.
-Tok
quote:
Check out the big brain on Toktuk!
Bunch of stuff that would have been good if not for the last line.-Tok
P4s that use DDR are out on the market now. In fact the system that I speced above used DDR not RAMBUS.
Even the Toms hardware link that you all showed me, had Intel and AMD neck and neck for the lead. Intel won on a couple AMD won on a couple.
You sound just like the people at CNet that post on Hardware reviews. CNet will review a system. In the comments fields for people to post remarks half the Negative remarks are. Intel Sux0rs AMD r0X0rs. Or equally stupid uneducated shit. They have absolutly no experience outside of the basement of thier parents home and have NOTHING to add to the discussion.
And you are wrong. The Intel does Compete Pound for Pound with the AMD and in some cases beats it. Just like the AMD sometimes beats the Intel. In fact we were pretty much in agreement here untill you came in spouting your drivel.
quote:
Azizza had this to say about John Romero:
P4s that use DDR are out on the market now. In fact the system that I speced above used DDR not RAMBUS.
Even the Toms hardware link that you all showed me, had Intel and AMD neck and neck for the lead. Intel won on a couple AMD won on a couple.
You mean that VIA P4M266 chipset? The one Intel is SUING VIA for developing? The one that all the motherboard manufacturers are afraid to use because they don't want to be sued by Intel as well?
quote:
You sound just like the people at CNet that post on Hardware reviews. CNet will review a system. In the comments fields for people to post remarks half the Negative remarks are. Intel Sux0rs AMD r0X0rs. Or equally stupid uneducated shit. They have absolutly no experience outside of the basement of thier parents home and have NOTHING to add to the discussion.
I don't read CNet, but the comment was a throw back to an old debate we had a long time ago. Everyone put AMD r0x0rz Pentium in their sigs. Remember? No? Too bad.
quote:
And you are wrong. The Intel does Compete Pound for Pound with the AMD and in some cases beats it. Just like the AMD sometimes beats the Intel. In fact we were pretty much in agreement here untill you came in spouting your drivel.
Show me a benchmark where the Athlon XP 1900+ runs neck and neck with the Pentium 4 2.0 GHz. The 1800+'s seemed to run about the same as the 2 GHz P4. Thanks.
And you seem to be awful bitter with me when I only presented a few facts? Can't take the heat of a good debate?
-Tok
And you compared that to a single processor Pentium for near the same price?
2)AMD beats Intel when it comes to gaming systems.
3)All I build are general home use systems (Mother and brothers) and a personal gaming system (myself)
With that said.
My brother's system is an Intel Pentium 3. I got that back when AMD had severe stability issues.
I am now back with AMD though, usin a TBird 1400 (Finally took it back up to 1400, been runnin it at 1200 due to some ram not wanting to work properly...Seems the 2 different brands of RAM didnt like each other running at 133 MhZ 
As far as I am concerned, AMD is a superior chip. Why? It pushes games faster. Simple. I play games. I want games to be fast. AMD is cheaper, and faster than intel game wise.
Whats the logical choice for me?
Ill give you the fact that the P4 is faster for business application type stuff. Keep your P4 for that, I dont mind it. BUT the P4 isnt faster when it comes to what most people here seem to care about...games.
AMD wins the games category, Intel wins the servers category.
There...we all happy now?
Fal
quote:
Falaanla Marr wrote this stupid crap:
AMD wins the games category, Intel wins the servers category.
Fal
Hmm actually quake 3 benchmarks show that Intel Beats AMD in this 
and also, is quake 3 the ONLY game that wins with an intel? generally, 3d performance is measued wit the 3d mark program. Its a fairly well accepted benchmark for games.
fal [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Falaanla Marr ]
quote:
Toktuk had this to say about Cuba:
Show me a benchmark where the Athlon XP 1900+ runs neck and neck with the Pentium 4 2.0 GHz. The 1800+'s seemed to run about the same as the 2 GHz P4. Thanks.-Tok
Since everyone is worried about gaming. he doesn't compare the 1900+ but he does show the 1800 Vs. a 1.8Gh P4.
And bitter? Nah. Just tired of people who don't know all the facts and have to resort to Athlon r0x0rz Pentium. To make thier argument.
Oh and on a finaly note. I don't mean the Via Chipset. Intel has thier own Chipset out that supports DDR. Once again please do your research before you come here and try to argue with the people who do.
I am more than open to a debate but I will ignore anyone who has to resort to Athlon r0x0rz Pentium to try to win the argument. It pretty much shows that they are closed minded and have no other way to try to get thier point across.
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Falaanla Marr was all like:
links prz k thx.and also, is quake 3 the ONLY game that wins with an intel? generally, 3d performance is measued wit the 3d mark program. Its a fairly well accepted benchmark for games.
fal
Heheh actually the link is in my last post. But I was just ribbing you anyway. hence the
Ill keep my AMD though... Cheaper, and in most cases faster
Note the difference IS just 5% or so, and thats only at lower resolutions in Quake 3 -- if you have a 1GhZ+ system, ya aint runnin quake at 640x480. Promise
Ive toyed around with the idea of building a P4 system next, who knows. depends on when i do my major yearly upgrade.
Fal
quote:
Falaanla Marr had this to say about Tron:
depends on when i do my major yearly upgrade.
What? Getting 1536 mbytes of RAM wasn't enough?
An AMD Athlon XP 1900 gets about the same performance as a P4 2000. Both have areas where they're stronger, and both have areas where they're weaker. There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to how the numbers spread out... Intel wins at this 3d benchmark, AMD wins at this OTHER 3d benchmark.
AMD seems the choice for optimum multimedia performance, though... UNLESS the application's been enhanced to use SSE2, in which case the ball is in Intel's court. Similarly AMD has the lead UNLESS an applications been recompiled to have optimal opcode ordering for the P4.
AMD's been a poor alternative on the server end for quite some time due to weak motherboard chipsets that flake out after prolonged stress, and because up until recently the Athlon didn't support multiple processors. Neither of these problems really affects a home user, and both of them have gotten big improvements recently. I'd still stick with Intel on a server, though, until AMD is more proven.
But on a home system, it's really 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. Their PERFORMANCE is close enough that they're practically the same, and with the long-overdue dumping of RDRAM as a requirement, the total cost of owning Intel has gone down to where the difference in cost is within a couple hundred dollars. --- but the extra cost goes to the more nebulous concept of a better "future" for the chip... a P4 will (in theory) age better than an AMD because a P4 will get performance improvements as more software is made that's optimized for it... an AMD doesn't realize those performance boosts over time because it's more-or-less designed to work best with the software we have NOW.
I, personally, would go with AMD (and in fact, I DID.. I just upgraded to an AMD Athlon XP 1900), simply because the $150 I saved by picking AMD over Intel is $150 I can use to buy more pie and I don't really care that the P4 would get 2 FPS more in Quake 5 than the Athlon will... it's already running like 529834 FPS already, I don't think I'll notice. [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Drysart ]
quote:
Drysart had this to say about Captain Planet:
buy more pie
Sums it up indeed! [ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Tier ]
quote:
Drysart stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Basically, to sum it up:
Athlon + Pie r0x0rs Pentium?
Sar...
Of course, I still dont know if the entire thing will fit in my tower.. but that shouldnt make much of a difference, right?
I'm gonna go camp the mail person now. (We have a nice lady that delivers the mail. She even got a special car with the steering wheel on the wrong side. Neat!)
quote:
Falaanla Marr had this to say about Duck Tales:
Note the difference IS just 5% or so, and thats only at lower resolutions in Quake 3 -- if you have a 1GhZ+ system, ya aint runnin quake at 640x480. Promise
...I run CS, UT, and AvP2 at 640x480 on my 1.2 GHZ T-Bird 
quote:
Demitri had this to say about Optimus Prime:
...I run CS, UT, and AvP2 at 640x480 on my 1.2 GHZ T-Bird
Just curious, but why dont ya run it any higher?
Fal
quote:
Tier had this to say about John Romero:
What? Getting 1536 mbytes of RAM wasn't enough?
Nope. thats one of my minor upgrades.
My major ones that come every 12-18 months entail a new processor, new motherboard and if necessary, new ram.
On occasion a video card comes earlier in the year. normally when nvidia releases their new model. I got a GF2 ultra when they released GF3. next up will be a GF3 Ti 500. Im waiting for a few games to come out that are optimized for it, though.
Fal
quote:
Falaanla Marr had this to say about Tron:
Just curious, but why dont ya run it any higher?
Fal
I suppose I'm just old fashioned, I've always run in 640x480 for games. I tried higher once, but that was before I gave my system a complete overhaul, and got horrible results.
I might try a higher res today after work, which.. Shit, gotsta go!
quote:
Demitri thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
...I run CS, UT, and AvP2 at 640x480 on my 1.2 GHZ T-Bird
Hey, if you like substandard graphics that's your thing, man.
quote:
Kegwen Tabibito impressed everyone with:
Hey, if you like substandard graphics that's your thing, man.
Well, what should I try running it in?
1.2 Ghz T-Bird
512 RAM
Hercules 3D Prophet 2 MX, 32 meg card.
[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Demitri ]
[Edit]I'm also a frame rate whore. Gotta be 45 or more.[/Edit]
Don't know about AvP2, never played it.
quote:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q4/011031/xpvsp4-06.html
Try this one. The one where they say, "With its new Athlon XP 1900+, AMD has widened its lead in performance even more. In virtually all the benchmark disciplines we re-selected, the Athlon XP 1900+ takes the gold."
quote:
And bitter? Nah. Just tired of people who don't know all the facts and have to resort to Athlon r0x0rz Pentium. To make thier argument.
Obviously you can't read. If your going to negate an entire post of FACTS because of one sentence that was a reference to SOMETHING else, I think it means it's because you can't present your own facts to prove your side of the argument.
quote:
Oh and on a finaly note. I don't mean the Via Chipset. Intel has thier own Chipset out that supports DDR. Once again please do your research before you come here and try to argue with the people who do.
There is no Intel made chipset for the P4 at the moment that supports DDR SDRAM. There is an Intel chipset (i845, I believe) that supports SDR SDRAM. That's a 133 MHz bus. Most benchmarks I've read have the i845 boards running at about 50-75% of the speed than similar boards with RDRAM.
Thanks,
-Tok
