quote:
Zair spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Can you give any evidence of this third party effect from the last 2 elections? I'm not saying it doesn't exist,I just can't for the life of me think of a concrete example.
Florida. 2000.
I was so anti-Gore I sent the Nader campaign a dozen roses on the day after the election. The card said "Thanks for Florida"
Not kidding.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
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Gydyon had this to say about Knight Rider:
Florida. 2000.I was so anti-Gore I sent the Nader campaign a dozen roses on the day after the election. The card said "Thanks for Florida"
Not kidding.
I meant evidence of parties shifting their platforms.
But as for Florida, there were a million reasons Gore lost Florida, and Nader was the least. You should have sent SCOTUS those roses 
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Zair is a Jelly Donut:
Can you give any evidence of this third party effect from the last 2 elections? I'm not saying it doesn't exist,I just can't for the life of me think of a concrete example.
See: Populist Party (then click the redirect link; I can't do parentheses in the url), Silver Party (They managed, with the Pops, to get a pro-silver Democrat nominated. They ultimately failed, but the pressure from this group did quite a lot.) Debs got 6% this year, and if 6% of people vote for a socialist, the major parties sure will take up some of their goals. (Child labor, shortened work day, full employment attempts, minimum wage? It really wasn't long before these were adopted.)
BHO may also be disqualified if he doesn't respond to two lawsuits filed against him to prove his birth. He (and his Campaign) has already missed one deadline in a third civil suits already filed and by his inaction can be considered the -Loser-. There's now even a petition to the Hawai'i State supreme court.
Civil Suit #1 (deadlind passed)
Civil suit #2
Suit #3
Petition to Hawai'i Supreme court
*back to work making the money that may soon support the "underprivileged" that don't even pay taxes.*
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Razor had this to say about Robocop:
Obama is just too dangerous for the country and the freedoms it represents. I am almost sure from his comments about spreading the wealth that the social welfare programs that consume more than the Defense of our nation (including the Iraq War and Afghan War) will become even larger and drive us further into debt. His connections to less than appropriate people (Ayers, Rezko (sp.), Flager, The gentleman who ran for office in Kenya) with in the last 5 years, shows his apparent lack of judgment, where it has been shown that all mentioned have had some political influence at some point on BHO.BHO may also be disqualified if he doesn't respond to two lawsuits filed against him to prove his birth. He (and his Campaign) has already missed one deadline in a third civil suits already filed and by his inaction can be considered the -Loser-. There's now even a petition to the Hawai'i State supreme court.
Civil Suit #1 (deadlind passed)
Civil suit #2
Suit #3
Petition to Hawai'i Supreme court*back to work making the money that may soon support the "underprivileged" that don't even pay taxes.*
"We don't know that he doesn't." is the only thing we ever hear.
Well, we don't know that McCain doesn't rip off puppies heads and fuck their corpses. WHY WON'T HE COME OUT AND SAY THAT HE DOESN'T RIP OF PUPPIES HEADS AND FUCK THEIR CORPSES.
We need to know the full extent of McCain's Puppy head ripping off and corpse fucking relationship, before we can vote for him. If he won't tell us about his puppy head ripping corpse fucking history, then what else isn't he telling us.
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Kinanik had this to say about Optimus Prime:
See: Populist Party (then click the redirect link; I can't do parentheses in the url), Silver Party (They managed, with the Pops, to get a pro-silver Democrat nominated. They ultimately failed, but the pressure from this group did quite a lot.) Debs got 6% this year, and if 6% of people vote for a socialist, the major parties sure will take up some of their goals. (Child labor, shortened work day, full employment attempts, minimum wage? It really wasn't long before these were adopted.)
Those are pretty interesting, but not that contemporary. Your most modern example was 90+ years ago.
My point in asking was, in what way did all those who voted for libertarian (or whatever else) in 2000 or 2004 get the Repubs or Dems to alter their platform in any significant way?
Hell, did Ron Paul's significant support even really shift the Republican platform?
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Zair had this to say about Pirotess:
[.IMG]http://www.fightthesmears.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/images/28.jpg[/IMG]
Counter point is that that certificate has been proven to be a forgery.
Edit: Also that document wasn't presented to the court either. Razor fucked around with this message on 10-23-2008 at 06:06 PM.
Skaw fucked around with this message on 10-23-2008 at 06:07 PM.
Did you know McCain has black relatives, Razor? Guess you can't vote for him either!
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Razor spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Counter point is that that certificate has been proven to be a forgery.Edit: Also that document wasn't presented to the court either.
No it hasn't been proven false you dipshit.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
You are incredibly gullible and should stay away from talk radio or Free Republic or wherever.
Keep arguing Obama's economic stances, which are at least legitimate discussion.
Or even his associations, which are less legitimate, but at least loosely grounded in reality.
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How.... Kinanik.... uughhhhhh:
What about Ross Perot? While Clinton's move to the center was no doubt largely due to the resurgent Republicans, it was also probably so he could get some of Perot's votes; and that's pretty much what happened in 1996. By taking on some of Perot's main issues, Clinton made Perot irrelevant, any many of Perot's issues are still the main issues in American politics. (I think he was the first to go: Outsourcing, Aaaah!)
This.
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There was much rejoicing when Skaw said this:
Razor's just incredibly stupid.
Fixed a typo for you. It's okay, the keys are right next to each other. 
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Trying to dance, Zair managed to type out:
No it hasn't been proven false you dipshit.http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
You are incredibly gullible and should stay away from talk radio or Free Republic or wherever.
Keep arguing Obama's economic stances, which are at least legitimate discussion.
Or even his associations, which are less legitimate, but at least loosely grounded in reality.
Thanks for the insult. 
You must be so ingrained in the fact that Obama is the one that will bring us salvation from our many woe's, and so ingrained with the MSM that actively gives Obama a pass on what he does, Obama has not been properly scrutinized.
The problem is he only posted the Birth Certificate to the INTERNET, not to the court who has to certify it for the suits. And if I recall, posting something to the internet doesn't make it true. There have been further items outside of the BC that could cause his disqualification as noted in the BERG lawsuit. Also that is NOT a Birth Certificate. Snopes is not correct on this, as can be noted the document posted by Obama; Mr. Berg further notes that the document has been ILLEGALLY changed. It is a suspiciously similar document to his Sisters certificate. The actual Birth certificate carries much more information than the
posted carries. This includes signatures of the people who did the delivery, and is sealed by the state issued. This carries no seal and no signatures.
On to Economics. The tax policy he has brought forth will "tax only the rich". We can see from evidence of the Carter and then the Regan administration, that the higher taxes stunted groth and in essence the country was seeing inflation, and massive unemployment numbers by the end of the Carter Term (whose policies Obama is fashioning his after). Regan turned around the taxes on the rich which Carter enacted, and the trickle down of supply side economics came into play, and the overall progress of the country exploded in a fashion similar to the advances we made during WW2 in production and reductions of unemployment. Supply Side Economics works if given the proper regulation with much less government intervention when it is not needed. The economic solutions Obama proposes, will mean the free market system that has made us prosperous, and the increase of jobs being lost/not created. This happens when that money becomes taxed so it's better for the money to leave the country than for it to be taxed. Less money results in less growth.
The Government has created more problems than what they have solved by using your tax dollars, which you put effort into making.
I feel that if the government is going to give me money, then why should I work and pay the government money from doing hard, hard work. Oh that's right, that's what happened in the USSR. We all saw this happen as Children (most of us). Read History, Socialism does NOT create a successful country. China only nods to Socialism, but they are now a FREE MARKET. France is now beginning to move back to a free market because it is becoming to costly to support the influx of immigrants, let alone it's citizens.
Show me an example of a successful socialist state and I might think about voting differently..... oh I can't do that, I already voted on Tuesday. Razor fucked around with this message on 10-23-2008 at 06:53 PM.
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A sleep deprived nem-x stammered:
Is this razor?
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Zairing:
Can you give any evidence of this third party effect from the last 2 elections? I'm not saying it doesn't exist,I just can't for the life of me think of a concrete example.
It's not an effect endemic to third parties, but to any large demographic from whom political support may be coaxed. Third party voters are just the most salient example.
The New Party was an example of a political party built explicitly around this concept. They gathered far-left extremist groups into a voting block and basically used that influence to attempt to pull the democratic party further to the left, with a pretty good degree of success.
John McCain's own campaign is an example of a platform altered by a particular interest group. In the face of considerable resistance from the party base, he's run a centrist campaign, supported global warming spending and opposed drilling in ANWR. Sadly, global warming isn't such a fashionable topic anymore, so he really only lost on that move.
People who don't like Obama already know about it, and the people who do like Obama don't care. Most of the people who don't like Obama don't care. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 10-23-2008 at 07:03 PM.
if McCain were ahead in the polls talk radio wouldn't have ever brought it up or pretended to care about it Kegwen fucked around with this message on 10-23-2008 at 07:11 PM.
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Maradon! painfully thought these words up:
It's not an effect endemic to third parties, but to any large demographic from whom political support may be coaxed. Third party voters are just the most salient example.The New Party was an example of a political party built explicitly around this concept. They gathered far-left extremist groups into a voting block and basically used that influence to attempt to pull the democratic party further to the left, with a pretty good degree of success.
John McCain's own campaign is an example of a platform altered by a particular interest group. In the face of considerable resistance from the party base, he's run a centrist campaign, supported global warming spending and opposed drilling in ANWR. Sadly, global warming isn't such a fashionable topic anymore, so he really only lost on that move.
Identifying the sources of shifts in party ideology seems pretty tenuous to me. No doubt some of it is due to third parties and fringe movements.
My point was simply that a third party has to have some decent momentum behind it to spur these changes, and none appear to this year.
So (my opinion) voting for a third party in a swing state (unless you legitimately see the Big 2 as 100% equal) is a wasted vote this year.
Sorta been repeating myself, so I guess we can agree to disagree.
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Maradon! probably says this to all the girls:
Most of the people who don't like Obama don't care.
haha
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
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Peanut butter ass Shaq Zair booooze lime pole over bench lick:
Identifying the sources of shifts in party ideology seems pretty tenuous to me. No doubt some of it is due to third parties and fringe movements.My point was simply that a third party has to have some decent momentum behind it to spur these changes, and none appear to this year.
So (my opinion) voting for a third party in a swing state (unless you legitimately see the Big 2 as 100% equal) is a wasted vote this year.
Sorta been repeating myself, so I guess we can agree to disagree.
You're getting back to the popular misconception that, if your vote doesn't accomplish your intention, then it's wasted. You don't lose anything by backing a losing horse in this game.
Presidential elections are often won by a matter of 1 or 2 percent. That's 30,000 people, less than half the capacity of Heinz Field. If Bob Barr or, god forbid, Cynthia McKinney gets 5% of the vote, that's decent momentum.
Yeah, if you're in a swing state, you have to make a choice between defense and offense, but it's not a "waste" to vote third party. It still advances your ideology.
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Maradon! had this to say about Duck Tales:Presidential elections are often won by a matter of 1 or 2 percent. That's 30,000 people, less than half the capacity of Heinz Field. If Bob Barr or, god forbid, Cynthia McKinney gets 5% of the vote, that's decent momentum.
I mentioned way earlier that if they were around 5% that was enough for the main parties to take notice. I wasn't aware that was the case this year. Are Barr or McKinney really polling that high? (not combined).
And I don't know stats for the # of voters, but no way is only 30,000 1 % of the total voters in a presidential election. That would be 3,000,000 total. Way too small. Zair fucked around with this message on 10-23-2008 at 07:32 PM.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Zair who doth quote:
I mentioned way earlier that if they were around 5% that was enough for the main parties to take notice. I wasn't aware that was the case this year. Are Barr or McKinney really polling that high? (not combined).And I don't know stats for the # of voters, but no way is only 30,000 1 % of the total voters in a presidential election. That would be 300,000 total.
No, they aren't, but they very easily could be if just a few more of the people who agreed with them voted for them.
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Blindy. had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Razor what do you do for a living?
I punch people in the face for a living.
Want me to punch Razor in the face? Five bucks.
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Peanut butter ass Shaq Blindy. booooze lime pole over bench lick:
Razor what do you do for a living?
Because that matters.
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I wish Maradon! would say this more often:
Because that matters.
It does if he wants to claim that he's paying taxes to support other people.
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x--Blindy.O-('-'Q) :
It does if he wants to claim that he's paying taxes to support other people.
So you can't object to something of which you are not a victim?
I'd probably be a beneficiary of Obama's welfare state and I object to it.
At least, insofar as anybody can be said to benefit from socialism. Nobody really does, and the poor are hurt the most by it.
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Razor was listening to Cher while typing:
Blindy,
I work for the State of California, California University System, San Diego State. Title Given to me: -Superintendent- for our off site observatory (Only astronomical observatory in the CSU system).
Does this mean you have a college education and you honestly think Obama ran for president as a non-citizen and hoped no one would notice?
Did you think Bill Clinton killed Vince Foster?
quote:
Zair wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Does this mean you have a college education and you honestly think Obama ran for president as a non-citizen and hoped no one would notice?Did you think Bill Clinton killed Vince Foster?
First point, yes I have a degree, Bachelor of Science and Applied Arts - Astronomy minor in Math; and yes Obama, unless he can prove so, is defrauding the American people.
I don't know who the hell you are talking about and don't really care at all.
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Razor was all like:
First point, yes I have a degree, Bachelor of Science and Applied Arts - Astronomy minor in Math; and yes Obama, unless he can prove so, is defrauding the American people.I don't know who the hell you are talking about and don't really care at all.
So Fox and Friends is fair and balanced because they say so too, right?
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A sleep deprived Zair stammered:
Did you think Bill Clinton killed Vince Foster?
Don't be silly. Everyone knows Vince Foster shot himself after catching sight of what passes for Hillary's vagina.
I've heard tell it's worse than actually seeing Cthulu.
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Razor's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
I don't know who the hell you are talking about and don't really care at all.
Probably because you were born yesterday
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
