Part of me wants to play WoW, but I feel that I will hit the same issue I hit last time I played WoW - I will hit level 70, hit a brick wall where I cannot experience any of the really big and awesome endgame stuff.
When I left, I was in a vicious cycle. It was before the expansion, so I was level 60 and I could not join an endgame guild because my gear was not good enough. I was trying to get better gear, but it was a situation where to improve it I would need to run endgame content for the better set pieces, the pickup raids were ass-tacular and I never got anything, so I couldn't really advance. Even then, the endgame guilds wanted people who'd be online to raid for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I already have one job, I don't need a second one online.
Does the expansion pack help with this at all? Is there a better MMO with more accessible endgame I could check out? Should I wait for the upcoming stuff like Warhammer Online?
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wait for Warhammer Online
Attunements are gone for pretty much everything.
Badge gear can supplement instance drops to let you skip instances that your guild doesn't have the manpower/coordination for.
Dailies give you enough money to afford the consumables and repairs with much less time invested.
Warhammer is going to blow chunks, just play wow.
Because it sucks.
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So quoth Blindy.:
WOW has had its end game nerfed to the point where guilds who could only do kara last year are doing BT now.Attunements are gone for pretty much everything.
Badge gear can supplement instance drops to let you skip instances that your guild doesn't have the manpower/coordination for.
Dailies give you enough money to afford the consumables and repairs with much less time invested.Warhammer is going to blow chunks, just play wow.
Most of that is an effort to get people to see the content before LK comes out, considering it took a fair amount of investment (Vashj/Kael kills, Rage Winterchill kill, Etc.) just to get to BT.
No point in making the content for now if barely 1% of your supposed 1% raiding population is geared/attuned for an instance you spent years on. :3
Raiding really isn't required any more, where PvP gear from Battlegrounds is just as good as gear from raiding anyway.
Essentially: Yes, you will eventually hit a brick where you can't see new content without a lot more time investment, but there's a lot that can be done to keep upgrading your character without hitting up raid dungeons. Willias fucked around with this message on 07-30-2008 at 01:15 PM.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Willias said:
With a decent tradeskill, a good enough guild to run heroics, or time to run battlegrounds, you can gear your character pretty damn well right now.Raiding really isn't required any more, where PvP gear from Battlegrounds is just as good as gear from raiding anyway.
Essentially: Yes, you will eventually hit a brick where you can't see new content without a lot more time investment, but there's a lot that can be done to keep upgrading your character without hitting up raid dungeons.
Even aside from this, my own guild finds other things to do as we're too small for even 10 mans (6 members at the moment). We're pretty content with this as we're mostly interested in the people themselves rather than what they offer to our guild as a raiding force. Our current projects include such things as farming Booty Bay guards for Bloodsail rep, farming Baron for his deadhorse, leveling alts, and whatever the hell else we feel like doing. We'll get around to raiding at some point but it's not really a priority right now.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Kegwen had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
that sounds pretty boring
WoW is pretty fucking boring. The entertainment value comes from the people at this point, not the game. If not for them, I'd have found something else to do long since.
Edit: for some perspective, most of my guildmates have, at some point, experienced hardcore raiding and had it leave a bad taste in their mouths. At this point, we're all pretty casual and we play the game more as a social exercise than anything else. We've all got some priority in gear, tradeskilling, or other pursuits but not in such fashion that we want to invite faceless cogs for our raiding machine. Damnati fucked around with this message on 07-30-2008 at 02:33 PM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Verily, the chocolate bunny rabbits doth run and play while Captain Tarquinn gently hums:
I always stopped playing MMORPGs when I reached the so called endgame.Because it sucks.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Your words are as empty as your soul! Mankind ill needs a savior such as Damnati!
WoW is pretty fucking boring. The entertainment value comes from the people at this point, not the game. If not for them, I'd have found something else to do long since.
I feel the same way actually. I was in a position to where I was about to just quit the game when I found a great small guild that was full of fun and interesting people that breathed new life into the game. We barely have enough high levels to do kara, but it's fun as long as I'm doing stuff with them.
So far it's been a blast playing as an AR/Dev blaster, though it takes too long to setup a room full of trip mines...
And I'm still waiting on Jumpgate Evolution. 
Skaw fucked around with this message on 07-30-2008 at 05:47 PM.
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Skaw attempted to be funny by writing:
You can gear up tier 4/ZA pretty painlessly with PUGs atleast. I know on Bloodscalp, one of the Horde guilds takes PUGers in to Hyjal because they just end up DEing most things.
While mileage varies, I've found that "painless" and "PUG" are two terms that don't belong together. Most of my Outland reps are still incomplete on Tai because I never do anything out-of-house. Just too damned much trouble. I've some friends in other guilds who have seen me along on their Kara runs periodically though; while I haven't really gotten loot on those, I did get badges and those are quite a bit more valuable than anything that actually drops there.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Damnati said:
While mileage varies, I've found that "painless" and "PUG" are two terms that don't belong together. Most of my Outland reps are still incomplete on Tai because I never do anything out-of-house. Just too damned much trouble. I've some friends in other guilds who have seen me along on their Kara runs periodically though; while I haven't really gotten loot on those, I did get badges and those are quite a bit more valuable than anything that actually drops there.
Magtheridon's is idiot-proof now. Gruul's is a cakewalk for the most part. Kara and ZA are really the only problem ones, but you can do good just filling in spots in a run a guild is doing. Finding people to do Gruul's and Magtheridon's is more time consuming than actually runing them. Skaw fucked around with this message on 07-30-2008 at 06:20 PM.
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Blindy. was all like:Attunements are gone for pretty much everything.
Attunements that required you to do more than clear the zone a single time always have been and always will be stupid as hell. Games should be fun, not work. The dungeon should be fun enough to go through multiple times, not something you have to do to get that new recruit keyed.
I like the lack of attunements, that way guild people can hit 70 and be able to tag along on a raid once in awhile instead of being left out because the guild can crush the shit out of SSC and it is boring.
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Falaanla Marr stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Attunements that required you to do more than clear the zone a single time always have been and always will be stupid as hell. Games should be fun, not work. The dungeon should be fun enough to go through multiple times, not something you have to do to get that new recruit keyed.I like the lack of attunements, that way guild people can hit 70 and be able to tag along on a raid once in awhile instead of being left out because the guild can crush the shit out of SSC and it is boring.
Since I can't edit this. End games in all MMOs are going to basically copy WoW now too. Easily accessible stuff that all people can eventually get to. Like it or not, hardcore gamers don't rule the MMO market anymore -- casuals do. WoW proves that making a casual friendly game brings in the big bucks. Hardcore MMOs are going to be a niche market. And most likely fail (see Vanguard).
In any case, Warhammer's endgame is PvP, not PvE, and there's more PvP levels than PvE levels. I'd say that's a far more accessible endgame than the raid situation in WoW.
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Talonus had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Perhaps it's because I quit too early after BC's release, but I fail to see how WoW's endgame is casual. There's still significant time requirements for much of it and, unless you have friends in larger guilds, the average casual still isn't going to see a good deal of the endgame. I quit because I didn't see the point in putting in such a commitment with so little reward.In any case, Warhammer's endgame is PvP, not PvE, and there's more PvP levels than PvE levels. I'd say that's a far more accessible endgame than the raid situation in WoW.
Compared to time investments on the order of EQ's original endgame (Complete heal rotations anyone?)or even Molten Core/BWL's original type of investment, the raiding is not that difficult to get into, and could be considered extra casual.
You can level people up to 70 in about a week or less, run them through heroics/karazhan's, etc etc for badges and have them marginally well equipped to face Hyjal/bt and even parts of sunwell in less than a month.
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Delphi Aegis had this to say about Pirotess:
You can level people up to 70 in about a week or less, run them through heroics/karazhan's, etc etc for badges and have them marginally well equipped to face Hyjal/bt and even parts of sunwell in less than a month.
You're taking someone who knows people in an established guild and doesn't mind powerleveling someone here. The average casual player who doesn't have that connections isn't going to have an advantage like that when first starting.
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Blackened said:
I'd like for a PvP-oriented MMORPG to do well.
See my sig.
I think I would like to play again. I just have been gone from the game for so long that I no longer have any connections with anyone in any high level guilds so I cannot ask nor expect to be powerleveled. I have a level 60 mage on a standard PvE server in what must now be considered fairly shitty gear (Full Magisters and that's assuming she hasn't been deleted by now), but part of me thinks it would be fun to start over and take the long way up to 70 or 75 or 80 or whatever the level cap is now. My three biggest stalling points are :
1) Finding and getting into a guild that likes to do high level endgame content that doesn't require me to have a 2nd job...
2) Deciding which of the 5 billion servers out there to join...
and 3) Having enough to do at level maximum to keep me interested.
It sounds like the endgame has improved, and if so I may rejoin soon. I just wonder on several things - the previous endgame, has the content been made more difficult or scaled up? Do people still run it? Will I log in and be able to go through BWL, Zul'Gurub, Ahn'Qiraji, and all the other dungeons I never got to play through when I left?
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Blackened was naked while typing this:
I sincerely believe that Warhammer is going to suffer the same fate as most MMORPGs these days, which is unfortunate.
Don't worry, if the current beta phase compared to the one 2 months ago is any indication, then the game will be godly at release in 2 months.
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Nina was naked while typing this:
Don't worry, if the current beta phase compared to the one 2 months ago is any indication, then the game will be godly at release in 2 months.
YOU SON OF A BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH
Just a suggestion.
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Khyron thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
I honestly enjoy endgame content in moderation. I liked my first few runs through MC before I quit WoW (Or at least as far as the guild I was with got through MC). I enjoyed seeing the coordination in action. I didn't even mind spending a very long time on a single raid. An occasional 5-8 hour raid was doable for me. I just cannot turn that into a nightly thing. Once a weekend, perhaps. But when I quit the game originally, the guilds that were doing BWL required people to be on 5 days a week, 5+ hours at a time and spend 90% of that time raiding.I think I would like to play again. I just have been gone from the game for so long that I no longer have any connections with anyone in any high level guilds so I cannot ask nor expect to be powerleveled. I have a level 60 mage on a standard PvE server in what must now be considered fairly shitty gear (Full Magisters and that's assuming she hasn't been deleted by now), but part of me thinks it would be fun to start over and take the long way up to 70 or 75 or 80 or whatever the level cap is now. My three biggest stalling points are :
1) Finding and getting into a guild that likes to do high level endgame content that doesn't require me to have a 2nd job...
2) Deciding which of the 5 billion servers out there to join...
and 3) Having enough to do at level maximum to keep me interested.
It sounds like the endgame has improved, and if so I may rejoin soon. I just wonder on several things - the previous endgame, has the content been made more difficult or scaled up? Do people still run it? Will I log in and be able to go through BWL, Zul'Gurub, Ahn'Qiraji, and all the other dungeons I never got to play through when I left?
You know, if you want to get back into WoW and have a shot at exploring the old content, you might consider starting up a character on Maiev Horde and looking up Mad Gear. I can't guarantee you anything more than a trial in the guild because we're pretty picky about our recruits and it's not any particular level of player skill we're interested in. Our recruitment is largely based on personal interaction and the approval of the core members (myself and two others).
As I mentioned above, we don't have enough members to raid at this point and expansion isn't a particularly high priority but it's on the list and we're working on it slowly. Our guild forums are here, though they're not terribly active; the Helipad has an outdated recruitment introduction and an app template that'll offer you some idea of who we are, though. I'm around most weekdays on Taikona, Everrett, or Aaeru and our guild leader is similarly present on Guntz or Namanda if you're interested. Damnati fucked around with this message on 07-31-2008 at 09:09 AM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Nina thought about the meaning of life:
Don't worry, if the current beta phase compared to the one 2 months ago is any indication, then the game will be godly at release in 2 months.
Yay!
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From the book of Khyron, chapter 3, verse 16:
It sounds like the endgame has improved, and if so I may rejoin soon. I just wonder on several things - the previous endgame, has the content been made more difficult or scaled up? Do people still run it? Will I log in and be able to go through BWL, Zul'Gurub, Ahn'Qiraji, and all the other dungeons I never got to play through when I left?
People may do those areas, but it's just to see the areas again, they haven't been scaled up.
Expect some guilds to try and do them once Lich King launches though, as there's achievements for every big raid boss.
The current raid game is different from the old. The old raid game was 20 and 40 mans. Now it's 10 and 25 mans, and that will continue in the next expansion. Currently, the first raid dungeon is Karazhan, a 10 man. From there, guilds progress to Gruul and Magtheridon, which are both 25 mans, then Zul'Aman, which is a 10 man.
From there, it's Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Cavern, then Hyjal and Black Temple, then Sunwell Plateau. All of those are 25 mans.
In the expansion, which will probably come out around October or November, all of the raid dungeons will have 10 and 25 man versions, and will start with a revamped Naxxramas.
Kegwen fucked around with this message on 08-01-2008 at 06:30 PM.
Even a lot of the classes that got goodies are going to have to completely change their gear strategy, play style, and role in the game.
It's basically BC2, except now your class or spec doesn't do what it always did and probably does something that isn't fun. Yawn yawn. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 08-01-2008 at 06:39 PM.
resto shamans are becoming even better but the other two trees need work yeah Kegwen fucked around with this message on 08-02-2008 at 03:40 AM.
Or at least that's the problem with shadow priests. Reduced the output of Vampiric Touch, but then they didn't bump up our damage all that much.
