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Die, Dr. Delidgamond Ph.D! You don't belong in this world!
I want to buy a car now so at least I have some liquidity for I can use for future endevours(sp?).
While I realize it's too late since you already bought the civic, and I might be misunderstanding you, purchasing a vehicle is never an investment. It's an expense, they only depreciate unless it's a vehicle you can keep for collector's value or something similar. I would have advised leasing your new civic, though I don't know anything about Canadian leasing programs.
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Kermitov 2 was naked while typing this:
Not sure where you get that. The light layer of rust on the rotor will be gone after one application of the brakes. It would take months to years of no braking for them to degrade so much that you'd need new rotors.
The Hybrids USE THE ELECTRIC MOTOR to brake most especially on the Prius and the Ford Escape (Mercury and Mazda on the Escape Platforms too) hybrid platform. Not the hydraulic pads or shoes except under certain conditons. The brake pedal on these Hybrids actually have "Force Feedback" to make you think the brakes are applying like a normal car does.
I am an ASE (Automotive Service Excellance) Certified Technician and my information came directly from a class from an ASE Certified Instructor. His information came directly from the manufacturers. In May I should be an ASE Certified Master Technician providing I pass my last 3 tests.
I have never had a harder time getting a battery out of a vehicle than on this Grand Prix.
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Quoth Densetsu:
While I realize it's too late since you already bought the civic, and I might be misunderstanding you, purchasing a vehicle is never an investment. It's an expense, they only depreciate unless it's a vehicle you can keep for collector's value or something similar. I would have advised leasing your new civic, though I don't know anything about Canadian leasing programs.
Leasing is almost never a good financial decision. Not sure why you'd advise this.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Blindy. had this to say about Pirotess:
Because mid 90's GM cars are the worst cars ever made?
My last Pontiac ran up to 200k miles before the transmission fell apart.
This Grand Prix is sitting at 88k and I'm about to take a fucking cutting torch to the engine block.
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Blindy. had this to say about Pirotess:
Leasing is only advantageous if you are already pulling the incredibly stupid move of buying a brand new car every 2 years and don't have any money for a down payment. Leasing being slightly less stupid than that still doesn't make it a good idea.
If you are regularly getting rid of your cars before their loans are paid off, leasing might be a good idea. Maybe you are running a business and can deduct the lease as an expense. Judging people because they like new cars is silly. Sometimes the numbers work out, sometimes they don't. Even then, mot everyone makes purchasing decisions solely on the numbers.
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Noxhil had this to say about dark elf butts:
Even then, mot everyone makes purchasing decisions solely on the numbers.
LIE!
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Noxhil must think they're pretty smart:
If you are regularly getting rid of your cars before their loans are paid off, leasing might be a good idea. Maybe you are running a business and can deduct the lease as an expense. Judging people because they like new cars is silly. Sometimes the numbers work out, sometimes they don't. Even then, mot everyone makes purchasing decisions solely on the numbers.
Of course, I should never judge people because they do what they like instead of what makes good sense! Which is why I'm great about crackheads!
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Greenlit had this to say about Robocop:
Kaglaaz why does the battery housing on my 95 Pontiac Grand Prix suck such a giant dick?I have never had a harder time getting a battery out of a vehicle than on this Grand Prix.
Most Midsize GM cars are a PITA to switch the battery out. Some of the W Body (Grand Prix, Regal, Lumina etc) have the washer fluid resevoir over the battery. Others have a big crossmember in the way.
It gets even worse... There's at least one Buick (LeSabre?) that had the battery under the back seat of all places. That battery is special order and costs almost $200.
Many of the Chrysler cars had batteries in the trunk or buried in the 1/4 panel and required you to remove the wheel to get at the access panel.
The hybrids use a different sort of 12 volt battery altogether. The 12 volt battery appears to be normal but it's a gel type battery that you can't put a normal battery charger on and jump starting it is foolish at best unless you want to fry the whole system. I'd have to get my documentation just to try to explain about what a fucked up system it is. Don't even get me started on the High Voltage battery packs in those things. We have a voltage meter rated at 1000 Volts to check to make sure we've disconnected things properly with big thick nonconductive rubber gloves we need to use while working on the high voltage system. Enough power there to cook you in your own juices.
Some towing companies aren't even going near the hybrids that have been in an accident until the Fire Department's HAZMAT team has made sure things are okay. What's better is the local city bus company now has Hybrid busses. The FD had to get special training on disconnecting the system in the event of an accident.
It's physically impossible to jump this car off without removing them; the "auxiliary" positive terminal must have a wire loose, or just can't take it.
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Kaglaaz How'ler's fortune cookie read:
The Hybrids USE THE ELECTRIC MOTOR to brake most especially on the Prius and the Ford Escape (Mercury and Mazda on the Escape Platforms too) hybrid platform. Not the hydraulic pads or shoes except under certain conditons. The brake pedal on these Hybrids actually have "Force Feedback" to make you think the brakes are applying like a normal car does.I am an ASE (Automotive Service Excellance) Certified Technician and my information came directly from a class from an ASE Certified Instructor. His information came directly from the manufacturers. In May I should be an ASE Certified Master Technician providing I pass my last 3 tests.
Yes I realize that but I'm saying it would take years with no brake application before you would need new rotors from rust.
Are you telling me you could drive a hybrid for years and not need the hydraulic brakes? Why even have them?
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Everyone wondered WTF when Kermitov 2 wrote:
Yes I realize that but I'm saying it would take years with no brake application before you would need new rotors from rust.Are you telling me you could drive a hybrid for years and not need the hydraulic brakes? Why even have them?
Because all cars are required to have hydraulic brakes?
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Delphi Aegis Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Because all cars are required to have hydraulic brakes?
All cars are required to have brakes... but I don't see anywhere in the regulations where they must be hydraulic brakes.
It's beside the point really, what I'm asking is, is it reasonable to believe that a hybrid could be driven for just a year even without using the hydraulic brakes once?
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Greenlit had this to say about (_|_):
My Grand Prix has both a crossbar and the washer fluid reservoir over the battery.It's physically impossible to jump this car off without removing them; the "auxiliary" positive terminal must have a wire loose, or just can't take it.
I've a 1993 Grand Prix with this same annoyance. In the process of switching the battery recently, the nonfunctional pump on washer basin broke off because the tube attached is too short to move the damned thing around. I threw the fucker in the trash.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Kermitov 2 enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Yes I realize that but I'm saying it would take years with no brake application before you would need new rotors from rust.Are you telling me you could drive a hybrid for years and not need the hydraulic brakes? Why even have them?
All cars are required to have brakes... but I don't see anywhere in the regulations where they must be hydraulic brakes.
It's beside the point really, what I'm asking is, is it reasonable to believe that a hybrid could be driven for just a year even without using the hydraulic brakes once?
In this part of the country the temp range is about 120 degrees. -20 to 100 degrees (F) we use a lot of salt on the roads during the winter which only compounds the issue as salt water is wonderfully corrosive. Plain old water is a funny thing too in that it likes to expand when it freezes, as rust occurs as well as cracking from the heat that can be generated on the pads, moisture gets behind or into the pads and when it freezes can cause the pads to crumble, in some cases the pad (braking material) separates from the backing plate, this steel plate grinds the rotor down to nothing and therefore the rotor needs to be replaced. Our "winter" can be 6 months long. The only month it hasn't snowed in the Duluth, MN/ Superior, WI area is July. Hell, we have a blizzard watch for tomorrow through Saturday morning. Other parts of the country may vary on the life of the pads on hybrids but the weather here can be quite extreme. It takes temps of -30 and wind chills of -50 to get the schools to close around here.
As for the reason WHY there are hydraulic brakes on the hybrids is because there needs to be a failsafe system. In the event the electric motor were to fail, the computer would switch the hydraulic brakes on so the driver could slow down and stop. It might not be as quick as the electric motor can do it because the pads and shoes are smaller than they need to be normally. The rear brakes do apply on occation for stability control in a sliding turn to keep the rear wheels from coming around on you or for traction control the front brakes will apply to keep the front wheels from spinning too much. In deeper snow the Prius seems to almost want to "crawl" up a hill as it switches the left and right brakes on and off up front.
Depending on the situation, yes the hydraulic brakes may not apply a single time during the course of a year on some hybrids.
Getting at some of the bolts holding the battery down, even below that, were a pain in the ass since I had no intentions of removing the goddamned fucking air filter as well.
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We were all impressed when Kaglaaz How'ler wrote:
In this part of the country the temp range is about 120 degrees. -20 to 100 degrees (F) we use a lot of salt on the roads during the winter which only compounds the issue as salt water is wonderfully corrosive. Plain old water is a funny thing too in that it likes to expand when it freezes, as rust occurs as well as cracking from the heat that can be generated on the pads, moisture gets behind or into the pads and when it freezes can cause the pads to crumble, in some cases the pad (braking material) separates from the backing plate, this steel plate grinds the rotor down to nothing and therefore the rotor needs to be replaced. Our "winter" can be 6 months long. The only month it hasn't snowed in the Duluth, MN/ Superior, WI area is July. Hell, we have a blizzard watch for tomorrow through Saturday morning. Other parts of the country may vary on the life of the pads on hybrids but the weather here can be quite extreme. It takes temps of -30 and wind chills of -50 to get the schools to close around here.
All cars would have that problem, not just hybrids right? Also, I'm glad I live in California, as expensive as it is! 
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As for the reason WHY there are hydraulic brakes on the hybrids is because there needs to be a failsafe system. In the event the electric motor were to fail, the computer would switch the hydraulic brakes on so the driver could slow down and stop. It might not be as quick as the electric motor can do it because the pads and shoes are smaller than they need to be normally. The rear brakes do apply on occation for stability control in a sliding turn to keep the rear wheels from coming around on you or for traction control the front brakes will apply to keep the front wheels from spinning too much. In deeper snow the Prius seems to almost want to "crawl" up a hill as it switches the left and right brakes on and off up front.Depending on the situation, yes the hydraulic brakes may not apply a single time during the course of a year on some hybrids.
Impressive.
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Kermitov 2 had this to say about Optimus Prime:
All cars would have that problem, not just hybrids right? Also, I'm glad I live in California, as expensive as it is!
Impressive.
Not to the extent that hybrid have the problem because the friction material on a "normal" car are used constantly and the moisture has more of a chance to boil off. Also the rotors and drums are constantly getting polished by the use of the pads and shoes whereas the hybrid's pads and shoes may not apply in the space of months or longer.
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So quoth Greenlit:
My Grand Prix has both a crossbar and the washer fluid reservoir over the battery.It's physically impossible to jump this car off without removing them; the "auxiliary" positive terminal must have a wire loose, or just can't take it.
Saturns are pain in the ass to change batteries on. I changed the battery on a Saturn once. ONCE. I'm never doing it again. Volvo's have the battery in the freakin' TRUNK. And I had one guy with a late model Oldsmobile where the washer resevoir was molded over the top of the battery. Guess that's one reason why they don't make Oldsmobiles any more.
But the all-time, grand prize winner in the Battery Piss-off Sweepstakes has got to be the late model Dodge Stratus and I think maybe Magnums where the battery is located UP IN THE FUCKING WHEEL WELL OF THE CAR. So you basically have to put the car on a lift and take the tire off just to change the battey. We normally install batteries for free, but on those cars, we charge. Oh yes, we charges them nasty hobbitses, my precious.
I still want to know how the hell something like that gets past an initial design review without someone going "Whoa! Hold on there a sec numbnutty. At what point did putting the battery there seem like a good idea"? Apparently they're doing a lot more blow in Detroit than they ever did in Miami or LA.
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Callalron attempted to be funny by writing:
,,, UP IN THE FUCKING WHEEL WELL OF THE CAR. ......
I belive some models of porches do this to.
However I can top any car battery placement hell with marine ones Peter fucked around with this message on 04-11-2008 at 01:12 AM. 8d batterys are never fun to change 
Half the time the manfacture likes to snug them into awful boxes with barely any room to pull them up from under engines or generators. had an aquaport that had them sandwiched inbetween the bulkhead and the engines, you had to slide them back, disconnect the terminals, pull them under the shafts, and then man handle the danm things to the deck over water system.
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Callalron wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Well, that just means your Volvo is old and busted. Cars that pre-date the entire Clinton administration don't count.
My parents have a '95 and a '98 and their batteries are also in normal positions. Perhaps Ford moved it into the shitty position?
Callalron fucked around with this message on 04-11-2008 at 02:22 AM.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Everyone wondered WTF when Callalron wrote:
That possibility does not surprise me in the least. There is no bad idea for a car that Ford couldn't make worse.
I own a Ford Escape. I have had so many problems with every Ford car my family has had.
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Callalron got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
That possibility does not surprise me in the least. There is no bad idea for a car that Ford couldn't make worse.
Preach it brother Callalron! Things are only getting worse! Two of the new Saturns are actually Saabs 
So obviously GM hasn't learned anything either...
With apoligies to Bloodsage, I can't stand working on eurotrash! It doesn't matter what car it is, they're all horrid!! Special procedures to align the damned things. For instance some BMW's and Mercedes require a full tank of gas, 150 lbs in both front seats, 46 lbs in the back seat (some are 150 lbs) plus anywhere from 30 to 50 lbs in the trunk. Only then can you align it "properly". Volkswagons can have as many as 4 to 8 different suspension packages during a certain model run so you have to go hunting in the owners manual or if that's missing; the trunk. Otherwise, just guess... Kaglaaz How'ler fucked around with this message on 04-12-2008 at 02:06 AM.
I seem to be collecting BMWs at the moment, but that's just because I live in Germany and get them at a discount through military sales.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
NOTHING GOOD CAN EVER COME FROM DETROIT
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage's fortune cookie read:
Even a casual glance at reliability stats shows the smart money's not on Detroit.
It was smart money for me. Besides, it was built in Kentucky, not Detroit.
It's true that anything from 1982 to 2000-ish was crap, though.
It probably does depend on what part of the market one is discussing.
We put 200K miles on our '95 Explorer before getting rid of it in '05. . .but that experience only confirmed by dislike for American cars.
{Speaking of cars, I just hit SEND on my tax return, and what I paid in taxes this year is damned near a car. Over $16K--WTFO? }
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
