It's not about whether it outsells anyone. It's about whether Sony makes money or not, which it will do.

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Mr. Gainsborough had this to say about John Romero:
I think you're failing to see what Talonus is saying.

It's not about whether it outsells anyone. It's about whether Sony makes money or not, which it will do.

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Uh... wut?

The PS3 is single-handedly responsible for Sony losing millions (if not billions, but since I don't recall the numbers I'll err on the side of caution) in their last financial year, and if you compare the amount produced to the amount sold, even without factoring in the loss Sony's taking on each system, it's still going to cost them what amounts to a metric fuckton of cash.

Final Fantasy 13 and MGS 4 may turn that around, but it's extremely unlikely to do so. People don't want to pay 600 bucks to play two games, and I wouldn't call Final Fantasy 13 a killer app by any means. MGS 4 may get people to buy the PS3, but I foresee a lot more people waiting until the inevitable port to the 360. Final Fantasy is a game meant to move games on an existing well-off system, not to move new systems. It stopped being a killer app around the time FF8 came out. Nobody bought a PS2 because they had to have Final Fantasy 10 or 11. They bought 10 because they had a PS2, and the few that bought 11 got hosed because of it.

The PS3 needs LOTS of good games to change its fortunes, not one or two hits. Until that happens, it's going to continue to suck Nintendo's dust, and Microsoft is going to point back and laugh at their role as distant third. (I'm not even going to begin trying to say who's the winner between Microsoft and Nintendo until the Wii's been out for a full year...)

Sony screwed the pooch big time.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael was naked while typing this:
And Sony's losing exclusives constantly.

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With the ones they have obviously that's a good thing.

And to Mooj, just give it time. Obviously, a console at launch is gonna lose money because they sell it for less than it costs to make. A gaming generation lasts, what, 4 or 5 years? Somehow I think they'll make something in that time. Shit, I bet if you looked at the stats even Gamecube made SOMETHING. Probably not what it was going for, but it at least made money.

Don't bring up Dreamcast because the issue there was piracy and Sega's just retarded for not putting copy protection in it.

Undoubtedly, this strategy won't make the PS3 any less of a failure and certainly won't bring it up to the lofty heights the 360 already secured or make a dent in the "omg wii" crowd.

How was Lair, anyway?

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Mr. Gainsborough had this to say about John Romero:
With the ones they have obviously that's a good thing.

And to Mooj, just give it time. Obviously, a console at launch is gonna lose money because they sell it for less than it costs to make. A gaming generation lasts, what, 4 or 5 years? Somehow I think they'll make something in that time. Shit, I bet if you looked at the stats even Gamecube made SOMETHING. Probably not what it was going for, but it at least made money.

Don't bring up Dreamcast because the issue there was piracy and Sega's just retarded for not putting copy protection in it.

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funny thing about that statement is SOny keeps saying the PS3 will have a life of 10 years.

Far as the Gamecube it's problem was Third party support it just didn't get very many at all good non first party games

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Peanut butter ass Shaq Mr. Gainsborough booooze lime pole over bench lick:
I think you're failing to see what Talonus is saying.

It's not about whether it outsells anyone. It's about whether Sony makes money or not, which it will do.

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I wasn't talking to Talonus, I was talking to Skaw, who seemed to be of the opinion that MGS3 and FF13 were going to coerce some crazy amount of people into buying the system.

I pointed out that a handful of blockbuster titles will only put them a bit less behind the curve.

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 07-14-2007 at 11:32 PM.

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Maradon! had this to say about Punky Brewster:
I wasn't talking to Talonus, I was talking to Skaw, who seemed to be of the opinion that MGS3 and FF13 were going to coerce some crazy amount of people into buying the system.

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Well, I'm not saying that these two alone are going to do it, but you're a fool if you think that people aren't holding out until they are released.

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Verily, Maradon! doth proclaim:
I wasn't talking to Talonus, I was talking to Skaw

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there's your first problem

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Skaw had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Well, I'm not saying that these two alone are going to do it, but you're a fool if you think that people aren't holding out until they are released.

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A FOOL

The one thing the PS3 really has going for it is the fact they might pick up some people looking for an uber-level experience, but ONLY if Sony starts implementing some of those tech advantages the PS3 has pretty damned quick. But even then, if you justify the cost of the console by saying it's an elite system (and by elite they really mean people willing to shell out that much for a slightly better tech experience that won't be fully implemented for years, given past trends), you're playing a dangerous game by not making your system attainable by normal folks.

Likewise, while I preferred Gamecube ports of games I could get on the PS2, for instance, because the controller was more comfortable, I still have a LOT more PS2 games than I do Gamecube. So even the aesthetics bonus only counts for a slight amount in the overall scheme of things.

It will most likely remain this way for the next 1-3 years, unless Nintendo manages to sell more consoles than Microsoft. Even then, I would be hesitant to call them the winners, as Microsoft is undoubtedly making a lot more money and securing a better future. Nintendo still has a lot of places to catch up on, namely 3rd party games and a competent online delivery system. Neither of which they'll achieve this generation.

Sony's 10 year plan is a joke. I hope no one is seriously buying into that, especially Sony themselves. If they persist down that course, they'll only end up being more humiliated when Microsoft releases the next gen of X-Box in roughly 3 years.

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Blackened thought about the meaning of life:
Sony's 10 year plan is a joke. I hope no one is seriously buying into that, especially Sony themselves. If they persist down that course, they'll only end up being more humiliated when Microsoft releases the next gen of X-Box in roughly 3 years.

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I wonder if they were taking a lesson from Brad McQuaid when they decided that they were going to make a system that would "last 10 years".

There's lots of advantages to saying they're making their console to last ten years.

The DS is an unstoppable force.

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Maradon! had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
There's no advantage to making their console last ten years.

There's lots of advantages to saying they're making their console to last ten years.

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Yeah like making an excuse to buy their most-expensive game system, thus kick-starting the chicken/egg PS3/Blu-Ray cycle.

edit: yes it's still too expensive and has no software but the anti blu ray argument is just completely useless

Kegwen fucked around with this message on 07-15-2007 at 04:11 PM.

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Verily, the chocolate bunny rabbits doth run and play while Kegwen gently hums:
Under no circumstances would the PS3 ever have shipped without Blu-ray. That's its primary selling point, really. A DVD-powered PS3 would lose all of its edge over Xbox 360. Shane B. at EGM was saying that in one of the playable levels in Heavenly Sword had 2gb of textures/art visible in the level. That does not work on DVD, period. It's that sort of thing that will give the PS3 its long-term advantage and it would have been immensely and unforgivably stupid to ship the PS3 without it

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Except that by the time that becomes relevant, we'll all be buying our cool new X-Box 720s with next-gen storage and next-next-gen graphics. Losing a couple of years on the competition seems to me to be pretty disastrous for a console.

There's no possible way for such a game to be anything but PS3 exclusive, and the market for PS3 exclusives isn't exactly compelling right now.

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Bloodsage.
Except that by the time that becomes relevant, we'll all be buying our cool new X-Box 720s with next-gen storage and next-next-gen graphics.

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The good news is that they already seem to be on the slippery slope toward giving up this stance because of XBL. Let's just hope they drop it completely for the 720 or whatever gay name their next console will have.

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Maradon! had this to say about Robocop:
Before developers will even think of making a 25 or 50GB game, there needs to be a considerable market for such a thing. Development cost doesn't increase on a linear scale with the size of the game... but all those textures and videos don't grow on trees either..

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Metal Gear

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Kegwen had this to say about pies:
Metal Gear

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See previous comment about not buying a system for one game.

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There was much rejoicing when Elvish Crack Piper said this:
See previous comment about not buying a system for one game.

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See previous reality that people DO buy systems for one game.

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 07-15-2007 at 04:40 PM.

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Maradon! got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
The HDD storage is better integrated in the 360 than it is in any of the other consoles

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what makes you say that

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Mr. Gainsborough.
See previous reality that people DO buy systems for one game.

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While I don't deny that there will be some people who will purchase a PS3 for MGS4 alone, there will be a lot more who go, "MGS is great and all, but it's just not worth it." Even then, I can't imagine the PS3 selling a particularly impressive amounts of units when the game hits unless it's coupled with another price drop. One that sticks, this time.

Not everyone is a well informed gamer and they have too much money and are willing to spend it on garbage, what can I say?

And I missed Mooj's comment about FF not being a system seller. I laughed a bit at that. Shit, I remember I bought a PS2 mostly so I could play FFX. Granted, a lot of people don't like FF8 or the ones past it, but practically every stupid otaku gamer girl I know has Kingdom Hearts and FFX listed in their favorite games list on their myspaces. (lookin at you too kegwen )

Mr. Gainsborough fucked around with this message on 07-15-2007 at 05:02 PM.

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Kegwening:
what makes you say that

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The Wii doesn't have a hard drive (512mb flash memory lol) and the PS3 treats their HDD like an extra large memory card. The 360 comes with the HDD standard, it's used by every game, use of the HDD for extra skins, patches, and other add-ons is widespread. It's hard to find a game that doesn't have some kind of update or download available.

The 360 also has local music and video playback from the HDD and the media center extender functionality.

To top it all off, they've been doing all this since the last generation of consoles. Of the 3 video game consoles, the 360 is by far at the forefront of integrating hard drive storage.

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Maradon!.
The Wii doesn't have a hard drive (512mb flash memory lol) and the PS3 treats their HDD like an extra large memory card. The 360 comes with the HDD standard, it's used by every game,

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Like I said, MS is adamant about not requiring the consumer to buy an HD. The reason that XBL Arcade games clock in under a specific size (Castlevania excluded) is so the user can fit them onto a memory stick.

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Blackened got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
Like I said, MS is adamant about not requiring the consumer to buy an HD. The reason that XBL Arcade games clock in under a specific size (Castlevania excluded) is so the user can fit them onto a memory stick.

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The size was raised for all games with the release of Castlevania and 512mb memory cards were launched with it, but yes there is still a size limit due to the stupid Core SKU

Kegwen fucked around with this message on 07-15-2007 at 05:36 PM.

I get what you're saying though. The part about keeping XBLA downloads small does kinda suck, however there are more downloads bigger than 512mb than just SoTN though. I have the 940mb Phantasy Star demo and the 613mb Sylpheed demo on my HDD now.

And while there aren't many games that REQUIRE the HDD, almost all of them do in fact have significant downloadable content. Even crappy shovelware like bullet witch has new skins and maps to download, a lot of them free.

Maradon! fucked around with this message on 07-15-2007 at 05:44 PM.

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Kegwen.
The size was raised for all games with the release of Castlevania and 512mb memory cards were launched with it, but yes there is still a size limit due to the stupid Core SKU

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A 150mb limit is rather ridiculous.

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Maradon! had this to say about pies:
You need the HDD to play FF13, heh

I get what you're saying though. The part about keeping XBLA downloads small does kinda suck, however there are more downloads bigger than 512mb than just SoTN though. I have the 940mb Phantasy Star demo and the 613mb Sylpheed demo on my HDD now.

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Demos have always had free reign over their size limit. Full games have restrictions in place.

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There was much rejoicing when Kegwen said this:
Metal Gear

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Thats mostly because Kojima wants to do uncompressed Audio.

Which is a massive waste of space.

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A sleep deprived Mr. Gainsborough stammered:
And I missed Mooj's comment about FF not being a system seller. I laughed a bit at that. Shit, I remember I bought a PS2 mostly so I could play FFX. Granted, a lot of people don't like FF8 or the ones past it, but practically every stupid otaku gamer girl I know has Kingdom Hearts and FFX listed in their favorite games list on their myspaces. (lookin at you too kegwen )

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And when every stupid otaku gamer girl buys a PS3, they might someday become a motivating force in the sales of the PS3. Until then, they're not. Just because you bought a PS2 for FFX doesn't mean that everyone else did.

I love the hell out of the Devil May Cry franchise, but just because I do doesn't make it a killer app. Likewise for you and Final Fantasy. I don't dispute that it's popular, but it is by no means going to be the driving force behind people buying systems, especially not six hundred dollar systems that won't have any other games behind it besides Metal Gear.

The fact remains that until Sony sells about five million more systems miraculously, both Metal Gear and Final Fantasy WILL be released on other systems. It's economics 101: Go where the money is.

Mooj fucked around with this message on 07-15-2007 at 10:52 PM.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but people are out there and gamers right now don't make up the majority of people who buy games anymore. It's a sad truth, but games are for everyone now.

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Mr. Gainsborough was listening to Cher while typing:
You do realize that cities contain a whole lot of yuppies and suburbs contain a whole lot of rich soccer moms too that do just buy shit to have it as Maradon said.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but people are out there and gamers right now don't make up the majority of people who buy games anymore. It's a sad truth, but games are for everyone now.

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Then why haven't they? Why hasn't the PS3 skyrocketed in sales?

Just because yuppies and soccer moms have money doesn't mean they're willing to spend that money on anything. $600 is a lot of money to blow on a video game, and for every one parent that does buy their brat a PS3, I'd go so far as to say that there would be upwards of fifty that say "Why the hell should I spend that much money on you?" Once again, Econ 101. If something isn't attractively priced, it won't sell. 'Deth got into this earlier in the thread.

And since your argument right now seems to be relying on the popularity of the Otaku Gamer crowd, that really shoots you down. If you were hoping for the "yuppies and soccer moms" argument to do anything, you fail already because they're a market that generally doesn't care in the long run what games they're getting. They'd have bought that shit already if they were interested in it.