quote:
From the book of Neskiairti, chapter 3, verse 16:
A bunch of bullshit.
You pretty much have no idea what you're talking about. Please visit the greatest Penny Arcade of all time.
Love,
-H
quote:what the fuck
Neskiairti.
heh, i registered just to reply to this
you cant really compare starcraft and warcraft, they are pretty much the same games.. just one fantasy one sci-fi to appeal to all people.. i prefer sci-fi to fantasy, so i like starcraft better.. though i got bored with it a couple years back when all my friends moved on to playing other games that were of 'better quality'
anywho.. its about time they updated the starcraft engine, sure it may be the same game.. but.. thats kinda the point, right? for all those people who love starcraft, update it for 2007/2008..and to those of you who are bitchin about them stealing ideas..
point back to what the guy above said about H.R. Geiger.. that dudes shit was sweet.. then came the movie aliens.. or go read some Orson Scott Card... and so forth, saying blizzard stole the idea from W40k is like saying Edison stole the idea of creating light from a candlethere are millions of candles out there, and none of them compare to the sun, and there are millions of stars out there..
so what if the marines looked like space marines... uh... they ARE space marines.. how many shapes are you going to draw a space marine.. lets see.. two arms.. two legs.. some battle armor.. and a gun.. oh lets put a flame thrower on this one.. and put a shield on this one! woowoo idea stolen!
most of the things i see blizzard "Steal" are giving nods to other games.. in WoW for instance, the whole un'goro quest chain having to do with link, where your reward at the end is a boomerang and linkins sword of mastery
or perhapse delicious cave mold from NetHack.. for people like me who played nethack and all the zelda series from the first release... its great.. all you 40kers out there should feel the same.. blizzard thought the idea was good enough to warrent a nod... btw, there are many more races out there like the protoss long before 40k came up with them.. half the "ancient" friendly alien races in any books from the 40s 50s 60s and so forth were like that.oh and did you guys see the screen shot of SC2 that has an add.. for Nuke Cola.... Fallout anyone?
didn't read, try again with about 200% less periods
Skaw fucked around with this message on 05-24-2007 at 03:10 AM.
perhapse i am missing something.. i never played warhammer on the computer.. 
but i dont see that many similarities.. if anything was ever ripped off.. it was robert heinlein.. >.> since Warharmmer took a shitload from heinlein.. you really dont have much of a leg to stand on.
i suppose even H.R. Geiger based alot of his stuff on Heinlein (though not necisarily.. they are just rather similar.. and heinlein came first.)
-edit- oh and btw, just cause i can throw a coherent sentence and paragraph together, doesnt mean I have to use grammar.. and just because you use grammar, doesnt mean you can throw together a coherent thought. Neskiairti fucked around with this message on 05-24-2007 at 03:18 AM.
quote:stop posting
Neskiairti.
-edit- oh and btw, just cause i can throw a coherent sentence and paragraph together, doesnt mean I have to use grammar.. and just because you use grammar, doesnt mean you can throw together a coherent thought.
But if you can survive the first weeks, and more importantly, learn from them, you stand a chance.
quote:I'm not flaming you, I'm giving you solid advice
Neskiairti.
why, exactly would I stop? i mean, its nice and all to be flamed for a comment.. ^-^
Stop posting.
quote:
Neskiairti said:
licking at the carpet
I support this. Everyone should lick as much carpet as possible.
Munching is also acceptable.
quote:
Neskiairti enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
-edit- oh and btw, just cause i can throw a coherent sentence and paragraph together, doesnt mean I have to use grammar.. and just because you use grammar, doesnt mean you can throw together a coherent thought.
flame in a non-flame thread B&
also obv underage b&
quote:
Neskiairti got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
why, exactly would I stop? i mean, its nice and all to be flamed for a comment.. ^-^
You haven't been flamed yet. They merely want you to type with all the grace of a 1st graders book report.
My guild on alliance side currently is mostly compose of people either in college and quite a few old ex-military. A few people are teenagers, but still decent people. I have met very few of these "idiot teenagers" on the alliance side that maradon seems to think infest the faction.
quote:
Neskiairti spewed forth this undeniable truth:
[QB]and to those of you who are bitchin about them stealing ideas..
point back to what the guy above said about H.R. Geiger.. that dudes shit was sweet.. then came the movie aliens.. or go read some Orson Scott Card... and so forth, saying blizzard stole the idea from W40k is like saying Edison stole the idea of creating light from a candlemost of the things i see blizzard "Steal" are giving nods to other games.. in WoW for instance, the whole un'goro quest chain having to do with link, where your reward at the end is a boomerang and linkins sword of mastery
or perhapse delicious cave mold from NetHack.. for people like me who played nethack and all the zelda series from the first release... its great.. all you 40kers out there should feel the same.. blizzard thought the idea was good enough to warrent a nod...
Emphasis mine.
1: Comparing the creation of the lightbulb to borderline copyright infringement/plagiarism is so laughable I think I might just vomit. One of these things has revolutionized humanity. The other made a video game company some quick cash.
2: This one DID make me vomit. A "little nod" every once in a while is a cool thing. It shows class, some dignity, and even a sense of humor, but what Blizzard has done is not a "little nod." What Blizzard has done - if you pay attention to half the quests, zone designs, items and NPCs in the entirety of WoW - is simply using popular culture as a crutch in place of originality. It's the same plight Dreamworks has fallen into, and I hope it is the death of them both.
quote:
Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Greenlit who doth quote:
This one DID make me vomit. A "little nod" every once in a while is a cool thing. It shows class, some dignity, and even a sense of humor, but what Blizzard has done is not a "little nod." What Blizzard has done - if you pay attention to half the quests, zone designs, items and NPCs in the entirety of WoW - is simply using popular culture as a crutch in place of originality. It's the same plight Dreamworks has fallen into, and I hope it is the death of them both.
Because holy shit with those two quests and the handful of recognizable NPC's WHO NEEDS CREATIVITY?
Giger, as I'm not sure you're aware, was approached to design the xenomorph of Alien after Ridley Scott saw two (Necronom 4 & 5) of his paintings. That design was refined into the alien we all know and love.
Starship Troopers was required reading for all of the actors playing U.S.M.C. soldiers in the second movie. Later, when Robert Heinlein was approached about doing a Starship Troopers movie (not the one that WAS made), he refused, saying that it had already been done to his satisfaction, in the form of Aliens' USMC. It wasn't until after his death that the shitty Troopers movie got made.
And hell, if you want to talk about 'little nods' of recognition done correctly, any film by James Cameron (Terminator, T2, Aliens, Abyss, etc) is the place to look. Cameron directed a film in 1977 based on a Joseph Conrad short story. In Aliens, the warship transporting the marines was named the Sulaco.
Sulaco was the name of the town in Conrad's novel Nostromo. Which was the name of the ship in the first Alien movie.
So please, tell me how Blizzard is anywhere near as subtle, intelligent, or respectful as any of these other examples you keep citing.
quote:
Maradon! had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Because holy shit with those two quests and the handful of recognizable NPC's WHO NEEDS CREATIVITY?
Your hyperbole is duly noted.
quote:
Peanut butter ass Shaq Greenlit booooze lime pole over bench lick:
Your hyperbole is duly noted.
The gross exaggeration is yours.
Even if they all DID, someone still had to put them all together and write a story to give them a plausible context.
Your assertion that Blizzard substitutes pop culture for creativity is completely incorrect and doesn't even make any sense.
Even the news article for the penny arcade comic linked in this thread said, Blizzard has taken their WH40k/Giger "inspired" universe in a completely different direction storywise.
SURELY THIS IS A TOTAL SUBSTITUTE FOR CREATIVITY
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Maradon! said:
The majority of these are so obscure I didn't even know about them, hahaSURELY THIS IS A TOTAL SUBSTITUTE FOR CREATIVITY
It's not that they completely lack creativity, but they are pretty much the kings of this type of behavior. It might not bother you that they do this (it doesn't bother me so much), but it's hard to deny that they do borrow a hell of a lot of shit from other IP's.
I never credited Blizzard with developing any deep and engaging IP's. Or deep and comprehensive gameplay mechanics. They're successful because their games are easily accessible to a wide audience, both from a technical and mechanical standpoint. You can pretty much pick up any of their games and start playing. Whether that is a good or bad thing is entirely based on your own preference.
-H Hellbender fucked around with this message on 05-24-2007 at 10:39 PM.
You know as well as I do that the most blatant pop culture references were removed before the game went on sale, and all that is left is sneaky stuff and blizzard tossing in names. Elvish Crack Piper fucked around with this message on 05-24-2007 at 11:23 PM.
BUM RUSH U WIT MAH CARRIERS PEW PEW
quote:
Hellbender had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Or deep and comprehensive gameplay mechanics.
i think quite a few people in south korea might argue with you on that one
I'm not even sure if anyone had even tried significantly different teams before.
Blizzard may not have the most innovative ideas but they take ideas to a degree of refinement that most other developers can only dream of. I have to say Blizzard games are the only ones that I still go back to after 5-10 years, which is pretty amazing I would have to say.
quote:
Kegwen stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
i think quite a few people in south korea might argue with you on that one
Out of all the discussions I've seen during the last 9 years, I've never seen an argument that convinced me StarCraft had more strategic depth than other titles. The fact that it is a popular game in Korea is about as poor of an argument as you can come up with. Counter-Strike is a popular game too, but I wouldn't say that it had more depth than something out of the Rainbow Six series.
EDIT: You should note that I'm not saying they are _bad_ games, I just don't believe they offer as much detail as some people want in certain genres.
-H Hellbender fucked around with this message on 05-25-2007 at 02:40 AM.
1) Come to Work
2) Log In
3) Check the Nightly Trouble Tickets of which there was only ever 2 or 3 since nobody used the fucking useless ass service (It was a HORRIBLE ISP)
4) Make my underlings turn in thier call sheets.
5) Sit on my ass at my desk and play StarCraft for 8 hours strait a night with the rest of the Graveyard crew (There were 6 of us)
It was installed on every machine (Hacked/And Keyed) and directory hidden from the company IT guys, who were about as useless as you could get anyway. LAN party all night every night 6 days a week. Oh yeah, good times. 80K a year to play StarCraft, gotta love it.
Other games in rotation were WCII, Dungeon Keeper, and a bunch of other nameless shooters and RTS games that I can't remember. We got into EQ eventually in 99' which is how I ended up at the very first ugly as shit Evercrest boards under my old name. Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 05-25-2007 at 02:51 AM.
quote:
Kegwen had this to say about Captain Planet:
So what is a relatively deep RTS that sets the bar, then? I'm genuinely curious because I may well have completely missed out on it
As blasphemous as it is to most StarCraft fans to hear, Total Annihilation still offers a much wider variety of strategies and tactics that you can employ. Back when Cavedog was still in business, the weekly units also kept things strategically fresh and interesting. Supreme Commander will probably be even better if they release an expansion pack to flesh out naval and amphibious options a little bit more. Total War is good too, but that's mostly because it's a hybrid of turn-based and real-time.
It seems like you're taking this a bit more personally than you should. I'm not of the opinion that a game must be all things to all people simply because it is popular. There's a lot of room in the market for a wide variety of approaches and viewpoints to be implemented in games and the majority of them can still be considered enjoyable. A lot of people criticize Command & Conquer games as being nothing more than tank rush games, but IMO this was always the appeal of the series anyway. I'm just calling a spade, a spade.
IMO, StarCraft, much like Counter-Strike, continues to be popular because it is well known, decently supported, and is easily accessible. The fact that it is well balanced is the reason why it continues to be used extensively for in tournaments. But it has little to do with the fundamental design approaches that dictate pacing, accessibility, and scope of gameplay.
-H
Warcraft 1 2 and 3
Total Annihilation
Starcraft
Company of Heroes
Dawn of War: Dark Crusade
and maybe some of that C&C stuff
Or else you're not making a fully informed opinion as I'd consider these must-play RTS games for any true fan. I'm not trying to say I'm the end-all be-all of RTS gamers, but these titles have acclaim heaped upon them for a multitude of varying reasons, and I've played all of them (minus C&C) and I agree with the respective fans/critics.
quote:While there's not really a lot of "deep" RTS games (my guess: the deepest turn into turn-based to make it a manageable game) you can find one thing interesting enough to be considered "deep" in a lot of the games just mentioned.
Kegwen.
So what is a relatively deep RTS that sets the bar, then? I'm genuinely curious because I may well have completely missed out on it
If single unit power is your bag, Warcraft 3. If you like managing massive amounts of resource and units, look to TA. Quick, more twitch-oriented gameplay? Starcraft. A shit ton of different races, all played differently? Dark Crusade. "Strategic" placement of units and territorial control? CoH.
this is a closing statement.
quote:way to steal some of my thunder while I'm typing this shit out, goddammit. I agree with most of what you said though.
Hellbender.
As blasphemous as it is to most StarCraft fans to hear, Total Annihilation still offers a much wider variety of strategies and tactics that you can employ. Back when Cavedog was still in business, the weekly units also kept things strategically fresh and interesting. Supreme Commander will probably be even better if they release an expansion pack to flesh out naval and amphibious options a little bit more. Total War is good too, but that's mostly because it's a hybrid of turn-based and real-time.It seems like you're taking this a bit more personally than you should. I'm not of the opinion that a game must be all things to all people simply because it is popular. There's a lot of room in the market for a wide variety of approaches and viewpoints to be implemented in games and the majority of them can still be considered enjoyable. A lot of people criticize Command & Conquer games as being nothing more than tank rush games, but IMO this was always the appeal of the series anyway. I'm just calling a spade, a spade.
IMO, StarCraft, much like Counter-Strike, continues to be popular because it is well known, decently supported, and is easily accessible. The fact that it is well balanced is the reason why it continues to be used extensively for in tournaments. But it has little to do with the fundamental design approaches that dictate pacing, accessibility, and scope of gameplay.
-H
However, I disagree that Kegwen is taking this too personally however, I think he's being rather relaxed about it.
