All I have to say is, I cannot wait to see the level 70 weapons that made the recent warrior changes necessary.
They better one shot someone so badly it makes their monitor explode :x Led fucked around with this message on 01-18-2007 at 02:22 PM.
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Peanut butter ass Shaq Led booooze lime pole over bench lick:
Well, the ones that do it murder me horribly with nearly if not totally full health. And ones that do not end up dead, but I die from DOTs anyways.Drain seems kinda smart to me ;x
It's not, and you're probably mistaken or trying to take on two at a time or something.
Even when you spec for it, drain life doesn't deal nearly enough damage to be worth casting and it doesn't heal you nearly enough to save you in any circumstances. With the same casting time you can get in two shadowbolts and deal quadruple the damage. If you really need the 500hp pop a whipper root tuber or something. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 01-18-2007 at 03:08 PM.
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Maradon! thought about the meaning of life:
It's not, and you're probably mistaken or trying to take on two at a time or something.Even when you spec for it, drain life doesn't deal nearly enough damage to be worth casting and it doesn't heal you nearly enough to save you in any circumstances. With the same casting time you can get in two shadowbolts and deal quadruple the damage. If you really need the 500hp pop a whipper root tuber or something.
Wait what 500 hp? What version of drain life are you using?
For soloing, I've specced heavy affliction. Once I've tossed my 3 instant cast DoTs and provided I have fel armor up, I'm dealing 250 damage a second and healing over 300 damage a second. Yes, I could do double the damage in 7 seconds (2 bolts without bane) but I also wouldn't heal anything. Though I do agree, drain life's main benefit comes in with PvE -- I was offtanking stuff in Coilfang Reservoir today. Even a boss for 20% of his life after the warrior went down.
Drain life CAN be viable if you set up for it and have a shit ton of + damage.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Falaanla Marr who doth quote:
Drain life CAN be viable if you set up for it and have a shit ton of + damage.
PVP is about burst damage and burst healing (if any at all), not small amounts of both at the same time. The amount of health drain life gives you amounts to, oh, maybe 1 ms or half a fireball. It really doesn't confer the same advantage that killing your target would.
The only time I could justify using drain life in a pvp situation is if you're dueling, have CoEx on your target, and are fear kiting them, or possibly in a BG situation if you have enough dots on them to kill them already and they're running away from you and you have enough shards.
quote:Pre-60 ungeared fury warriors don't exactly have a ton of burst damage.
A sleep deprived Maradon! stammered:
PVP is about burst damage and burst healing (if any at all), not small amounts of both at the same time. The amount of health drain life gives you amounts to, oh, maybe 1 ms or half a fireball. It really doesn't confer the same advantage that killing your target would.The only time I could justify using drain life in a pvp situation is if you're dueling, have CoEx on your target, and are fear kiting them, or possibly in a BG situation if you have enough dots on them to kill them already and they're running away from you and you have enough shards.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Taeldian stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Pre-60 ungeared fury warriors don't exactly have a ton of burst damage.
Warriors don't have burst damage anymore.
Warriors don't even have three talent trees anymore.
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From the book of Mr. Parcelan, chapter 3, verse 16:
Warriors don't have burst damage anymore.Warriors don't even have three talent trees anymore.
What is the last one? Honor Donation?
Even though we suck incredibly, I still do not want to play any other class. So now I just DPS down mobs in berserker stance while my guildleader MTs things with his hunter pet. Works great, I get to hit things until they die.
Oh god, that build is incredible. It puts out some insane burst damage. And I mean insane -- ask Addy, we were in the group in Mana Tombs together.
However, the build is absolute ass when solo -- sure, it kills shit faster than affliction or demonology but is severely lacking in the "tricks up the sleeve" department. Sure, I can take two or three mobs via Shadowfury...but I am completely, totally 100% spent resource wise afterwards and have no real way to recover save from eating and drinking. If I get jumped, I am screwed.
However, running around with affliction, 3 mobs at once is, well, nowhere near as bad. Toss three instant-cast DoTs on each of them, then howl of terror and throw drain life on one immediately. Nearly healed to full then I can dark pact away my pets mana if I need more. The other two mobs just get the drain tank treatment to finish them off.
So, my final verdict on specs:
If you have a group to run with consistently in a 5-man dungeon OR if you want to PvP, go Destruction. It puts out some monster burst damage. Immolate, Incinerate, Incinerate, Conflagrate = tons of damage (plus, Incinerate is a wicked awesome looking spell to boot). The spec still CAN solo, you just have to be much more careful in how you go about it.
However, for solo, go full affliction. While weaker in 5-man stuff due to the speed mobs die at, it is probably the king of solo specs. Instant howl of terror every 45 seconds is just plain ridiculous. With everything else warlocks get, I'll be the first to admit that yes, we are overpowered when it comes to solo PvE.
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Falaanla Marr had this to say about Tron:
Post.
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Falaanla Marring:
So, last night I decided to try a Destruction build for a 5-man run.Oh god, that build is incredible. It puts out some insane burst damage. And I mean insane -- ask Addy, we were in the group in Mana Tombs together.
However, the build is absolute ass when solo -- sure, it kills shit faster than affliction or demonology but is severely lacking in the "tricks up the sleeve" department. Sure, I can take two or three mobs via Shadowfury...but I am completely, totally 100% spent resource wise afterwards and have no real way to recover save from eating and drinking. If I get jumped, I am screwed.
However, running around with affliction, 3 mobs at once is, well, nowhere near as bad. Toss three instant-cast DoTs on each of them, then howl of terror and throw drain life on one immediately. Nearly healed to full then I can dark pact away my pets mana if I need more. The other two mobs just get the drain tank treatment to finish them off.
So, my final verdict on specs:
If you have a group to run with consistently in a 5-man dungeon OR if you want to PvP, go Destruction. It puts out some monster burst damage. Immolate, Incinerate, Incinerate, Conflagrate = tons of damage (plus, Incinerate is a wicked awesome looking spell to boot). The spec still CAN solo, you just have to be much more careful in how you go about it.
However, for solo, go full affliction. While weaker in 5-man stuff due to the speed mobs die at, it is probably the king of solo specs. Instant howl of terror every 45 seconds is just plain ridiculous. With everything else warlocks get, I'll be the first to admit that yes, we are overpowered when it comes to solo PvE.
Yeah, this is more or less precisely my findings.
Although I plan to have demonic sacrifice by 70, which should help immensely... but of course by then I won't be soloing for xp either
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Damnati who doth quote:
So, having tried out the Felguard spec in PvP, I'm not liking it so much. Yeah, he hits like a truck and all, but I find him to be of little use most of the time. My targets get too far away and I have to call him back or let him be dismissed. I'm considering a heavy (read zomgeverything) Affliction build akin to this. How much utility can I expect out of that sort of spec? I do a lot of soloing and I expect to do a good deal of raiding in the future; will this spec suit that goal?
You can expect ALL utility and very little in the way of burst DPS. For solo PVE, you're set. For raiding you won't be in the top 10 on the DPS meters but your utility and self sufficiency will make up for it. For PVP, well, I hope you like debuffing and fearing.
[edit: Scratch that, I see you don't have malediction in there... you might want to rethink that if you plan on raiding. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 01-20-2007 at 06:18 PM.
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Maradon! stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
You can expect ALL utility and very little in the way of burst DPS. For solo PVE, you're set. For raiding you won't be in the top 10 on the DPS meters but your utility and self sufficiency will make up for it. For PVP, well, I hope you like debuffing and fearing.[edit: Scratch that, I see you don't have malediction in there... you might want to rethink that if you plan on raiding.
That's about all I manage to do as it is, sans fearing because Howl of Terror is ass. Is Malediction really that crucial? I'd kind of like to have Improved Imp to boost my health but if it's that big of a deal, I suppose I could add it. Something like this perhaps?
Edit: I should add that I rethought certain parts of the spec, figuring that my imp would become a bit more useful since I won't have the stamina/health boost Demonology currently gives me. This is more in line with what I'd like to eventually have. Damnati fucked around with this message on 01-20-2007 at 10:01 PM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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x--DamnatiO-('-'Q) :
That's about all I manage to do as it is, sans fearing because Howl of Terror is ass. Is Malediction really that crucial? I'd kind of like to have Improved Imp to boost my health but if it's that big of a deal, I suppose I could add it. Something like this perhaps?
As we discussed earlier, things that affect all 25 people in your raid - especially % modifiers - are pretty swell. Just imagine all those fire and ice mages out there doing 3% more damage, to say nothing of the destro warlocks and frostshoooooooooooooock.
I dunno if I'd call it vital but it is one of the better talents.
Your build here is... ok, but not very cohesive. I'd suggest this for a heavy affliction PVE/raid build.
Q) Why not imp COA?
A) With malediction you're going to be using CoE/S, not CoA. If you really must use a damage curse, you can use CoD and do more damage than the talented CoA anyway.
Q) Why not imp drain soul?
A) Because imp drain soul sucks. Your affliction spells already generate almost no threat at all and you've already got crazy mana regeneration abilities. For straight experience grinding this talent MIGHT come in handy when you're chain-killing shit, but... that's not as common as you might think, and honestly the points are better spent elsewhere.
Q) No empowered corruption!? But that rocks!
A) Eh... it's your call on this one. Remember that Seed of Corruption and Corruption will NOT stack and that in most cases SoC will be much better, and imp imp will end up helping you and your group more in the end anyway. Given that if you still think you'll be slinging corruptions around, pull the points out if imp imp and throw them in here.
Q) No imp HoT? You aren't any fun at all, are you?
A) Nyeh. Imp HoT is still pretty bogus as an escape method, with it's limited number of targets and cooldown, and the points are better elsewhere honestly.
Shadow Embrace is a HUGE raiding affliction talent. 5% may not seem like much, until you consider bosses that will be hitting for 4000 a whack... imagine you could cast a spell that healed your MT for 1000hp every 5 seconds or so. Better, because this effect could never possibly overheal, and not just your MT, but anybody engaged in melee with the boss.
That, plus your malediction bonus, plus your imp imp, and you're the bell of the fucking raiding ball. But that's not all!! I almost forgot to mention one of my favorite goodies: 1/2 imp healthstone.
See, all the nooblocks who take demo get 2/2 imp healthstone to get to the next tier because fel int, imp vw, and imp health funnel all suck cock. Most people who don't take a heavy demo spec don't take imp healthstone at all because they're happy with demonic embrace and imp imp. So that means there are an abundance of 1440 healthstones out there, and an even greater abundance of 1200 healthstones. You will be the ONE motherfucker able to provide a 1320 healthstone.
Why is this awesome? Because tanks can then carry 3 of the highest rank healthstone instead of just one: a 1440, a 1200, and yours.
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Maradon! thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
As we discussed earlier, things that affect all 25 people in your raid - especially % modifiers - are pretty swell. Just imagine all those fire and ice mages out there doing 3% more damage, to say nothing of the destro warlocks and frostshoooooooooooooock.I dunno if I'd call it vital but it is one of the better talents.
Your build here is... ok, but not very cohesive. I'd suggest this for a heavy affliction PVE/raid build.
Q) Why not imp COA?
A) With malediction you're going to be using CoE/S, not CoA. If you really must use a damage curse, you can use CoD and do more damage than the talented CoA anyway.Q) Why not imp drain soul?
A) Because imp drain soul sucks. Your affliction spells already generate almost no threat at all and you've already got crazy mana regeneration abilities. For straight experience grinding this talent MIGHT come in handy when you're chain-killing shit, but... that's not as common as you might think, and honestly the points are better spent elsewhere.Q) No empowered corruption!? But that rocks!
A) Eh... it's your call on this one. Remember that Seed of Corruption and Corruption will NOT stack and that in most cases SoC will be much better, and imp imp will end up helping you and your group more in the end anyway. Given that if you still think you'll be slinging corruptions around, pull the points out if imp imp and throw them in here.Q) No imp HoT? You aren't any fun at all, are you?
A) Nyeh. Imp HoT is still pretty bogus as an escape method, with it's limited number of targets and cooldown, and the points are better elsewhere honestly.Shadow Embrace is a HUGE raiding affliction talent. 5% may not seem like much, until you consider bosses that will be hitting for 4000 a whack... imagine you could cast a spell that healed your MT for 1000hp every 5 seconds or so. Better, because this effect could never possibly overheal, and not just your MT, but anybody engaged in melee with the boss.
That, plus your malediction bonus, plus your imp imp, and you're the bell of the fucking raiding ball. But that's not all!! I almost forgot to mention one of my favorite goodies: 1/2 imp healthstone.
See, all the nooblocks who take demo get 2/2 imp healthstone to get to the next tier because fel int, imp vw, and imp health funnel all suck cock. Most people who don't take a heavy demo spec don't take imp healthstone at all because they're happy with demonic embrace and imp imp. So that means there are an abundance of 1440 healthstones out there, and an even greater abundance of 1200 healthstones. You will be the ONE motherfucker able to provide a 1320 healthstone.
Why is this awesome? Because tanks can then carry 3 of the highest rank healthstone instead of just one: a 1440, a 1200, and yours.
Looks like you relinked my build there. Also bear in mind that I want to balance PvE with PvP in my build. Damnati fucked around with this message on 01-20-2007 at 11:09 PM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Damnatiing:
Looks like you relinked my build there. Also bear in mind that I want to balance PvE with PvP in my build.
You may also consider swapping imp shadowbolt for cataclysm. While imp SB is nice, you won't be a very crit-heavy build, and cataclysm will give impy's brain a rest during those times when you will be chain-casting SB at some monsterous boss. Maradon! fucked around with this message on 01-20-2007 at 11:18 PM.
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x--DamnatiO-('-'Q) :
Looks like you relinked my build there. Also bear in mind that I want to balance PvE with PvP in my build.
Ah, see, you said raiding and solo PVE
You CAN pvp well with this spec... PVP is really the only reason to ever take unstable affliction, and you've still got coex in there along with the other affliction goodies.
I would NOT suggest dumping shadow embrace or malediction unless PVP is seriously far more important to you than raiding, they are that good. However, I would pull out all your demo points to fill up imp HoT and imp CoA.
Alternately, maybe, MAYBE dump imp CoA and your 1 point in shadowburn to pick up 3/3 empowered corruption... that depends on how good your gear is really. You'll have to break out your calculator to figure out which ends up hurting more.
In PVE/raiding, the buff to your imp's mana and the buff to fel armor effectiveness will push your mana efficiency into psychotic levels.
Malediction is a highly raid specialized talent, so in shifting your focus to pvp it's worth leaving behind.
In addition to being a crackerjack raid talent, shadow embrace coupled with imp demon armor and demonic embrace will give you considerable resiliance for PVP. You will be DOT'ing EVERYBODY. The only time you should stop to toss an SB is if you're out of targets to dot, or you get a nightfall in which case bane would not have helped you anyway. Your CoA/corruption combo will melt faces.
You better appreciate all this work I've done for you.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Mr. Parcelan said:
Warriors don't have burst damage anymore.Warriors don't even have three talent trees anymore.
My warrior still has plenty of burst damage, and all three trees are viable for different things.
That doesn't mean I'm happy with my warrior, though. There's a reason I'm playing a mage instead right now.
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Maradon! had this to say about John Romero:
OK I GOT ITIn PVE/raiding, the buff to your imp's mana and the buff to fel armor effectiveness will push your mana efficiency into psychotic levels.
Malediction is a highly raid specialized talent, so in shifting your focus to pvp it's worth leaving behind.
In addition to being a crackerjack raid talent, shadow embrace coupled with imp demon armor and demonic embrace will give you considerable resiliance for PVP. You will be DOT'ing EVERYBODY. The only time you should stop to toss an SB is if you're out of targets to dot, or you get a nightfall in which case bane would not have helped you anyway. Your CoA/corruption combo will melt faces.
You better appreciate all this work I've done for you.
I don't understand how you can bring yourself to make a deep Affliction build without Improved HoT. I don't know enough about warlocks to know what to pull two points out of, but there's got to be something.
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Taeldianing:
I don't understand how you can bring yourself to make a deep Affliction build without Improved HoT. I don't know enough about warlocks to know what to pull two points out of, but there's got to be something.
There's not, christ have I tried, I would seriously love to have imp HoT in there, but every single talent in that build is absolutely essential.
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How.... Maradon!.... uughhhhhh:
OK I GOT ITIn PVE/raiding, the buff to your imp's mana and the buff to fel armor effectiveness will push your mana efficiency into psychotic levels.
Malediction is a highly raid specialized talent, so in shifting your focus to pvp it's worth leaving behind.
In addition to being a crackerjack raid talent, shadow embrace coupled with imp demon armor and demonic embrace will give you considerable resiliance for PVP. You will be DOT'ing EVERYBODY. The only time you should stop to toss an SB is if you're out of targets to dot, or you get a nightfall in which case bane would not have helped you anyway. Your CoA/corruption combo will melt faces.
You better appreciate all this work I've done for you.
Goddamnit...now I have to respec again. Didn't occur to me to do it like that. Also, another angle is that Demonic Aegis makes Fel Armor more powerful as well. The only change I'll make is to drop Amp Curse and CoEx in favor of Imp HoT. The latter is significantly more useful in places like AV and AB for me. Could also take them out of Grim Reach, but that talent is truly handy.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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x--DamnatiO-('-'Q) :
Goddamnit...now I have to respec again. Didn't occur to me to do it like that. Also, another angle is that Demonic Aegis makes Fel Armor more powerful as well. The only change I'll make is to drop Amp Curse and CoEx in favor of Imp HoT. The latter is significantly more useful in places like AV and AB for me. Could also take them out of Grim Reach, but that talent is truly handy.
Yeah, that works. I wouldn't take out grim reach, as with this build the more people you affect the more powerful you get in a very literal sense.
What really strikes me about this build is how you will have horrible DoT's... that nobody will ever want to dispel for fear of popping your unstable afflictions. You're either killing healers or killing everybody else, and I really can't decide which is better.
I plan to sac an imp while dps'ing to have no less than +%25 to fire damage. For the long haul or while soloing, I'll have that beautimous voidwalker sac refilling my hp, which will be considerable in itself due to the fel stamina and demonic embrace talents.
If you hit me, my imp demon armor will protect me while your attacks illicit a response of backlashed incinerates.
My only regret is the impossibility of shadowfury... which I may alter, at a later date, to exclude demonic sacrifice, fel dom, and fel intellect and include an imp, imp firebolt, and nether projection.
Fuck I'm salivating at this.
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Maradon! had this to say about Tron:
Yeah, that works. I wouldn't take out grim reach, as with this build the more people you affect the more powerful you get in a very literal sense.What really strikes me about this build is how you will have horrible DoT's... that nobody will ever want to dispel for fear of popping your unstable afflictions. You're either killing healers or killing everybody else, and I really can't decide which is better.
It's the fucking shadow priests that will die by this build that really makes me squee. Those and hunters are the only classes that really give me trouble if I get into a one on one. Shamans and warriors die in a particularly horrible fashion...and that was with the Felguard. My CoA right now is peaking at 1380ish damage (according to the tooltip, which adjust for +dam but no, I think, for SM) and Corruption is doing 1151. UA's only 994/1491 right now as I'm only 55, but that's still pretty nasty.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Damnati had this to say about Optimus Prime:
On a related note, I need a mod that tells when my DoTs are going to wear off and such like. What should I use for this?
Natur EnemyCastBars
Keeps track of pretty much everything. Buff and debuff durations, cast times, your target's cooldowns, diminishing returns, and boss' abilities.
Best mod ever. Taeldian fucked around with this message on 01-22-2007 at 07:18 AM.
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Damnati's account was hax0red to write:
On a related note, I need a mod that tells when my DoTs are going to wear off and such like. What should I use for this?
Chronometer and Sorren Timers both come highly recommended. OmniCC is another one, also Ace2, but I think it's only actual crowd control, not DoTs.
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Greenlit had this to say about (_|_):
Chronometer and Sorren Timers both come highly recommended. OmniCC is another one, also Ace2, but I think it's only actual crowd control, not DoTs.
Chronometer it is. Thank you very much.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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ACES! Another post by Maradon!:
I can't exactly work the math on this, but the final rank of blood pact gives you a whopping 98 stamina with imp imp...
At 70, imp imp's blood pact gives 91. I'd have to re-log on and check.
Btw, 21/40 is crazyass self damage, but think about (with enough gear) a 40/21. With manafeed. 500 DPS imp FTW, imo.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Delphi Aegis who doth quote:
Btw, 21/40 is crazyass self damage, but think about (with enough gear) a 40/21. With manafeed. 500 DPS imp FTW, imo.
demo is noob spec.
In light of recent events, I've actually revised my spec to 15 demo, 46 destruction, to encompass shadowfury, nether projection, and imp firebolt anyway.
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Maradon! had this to say about Optimus Prime:
demo is noob spec.In light of recent events, I've actually revised my spec to 15 demo, 46 destruction, to encompass shadowfury, nether projection, and imp firebolt anyway.
Demo is the "I really hate downtime" spec; I had to stop maybe once every 15th or 20th mob with my felguard. It's about once every 7th-10th fight with Affliction.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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OMGMaradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!Maradon!OMG
demo is noob spec.In light of recent events, I've actually revised my spec to 15 demo, 46 destruction, to encompass shadowfury, nether projection, and imp firebolt anyway.
It'd be more of a shits and giggles spec where you can say "lol look at my imp man" rather then a real raiding spec. tbh, max DPS is 21/40, but I loved 46 destro for levelling. Yes, even with all the water usage. haha.
