Thanks in advance.
The costs can be high so you may want to look at the player market like from bartertown or something.
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A sleep deprived Dave stammered:
40k totaly depends on how your friends/oppents are. The rules are not exact so sometimes you just have to go with a common sense call. But if you are playing an asshole rule lawyering can be a pain.The costs can be high so you may want to look at the player market like from bartertown or something.
Yeah, Price is my major worry here. If I can find some cheap, that would rock. What about painting? Is there any way to practice some without ruining my good models? 
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Arrenn Lightblade attempted to be funny by writing:
Yeah, Price is my major worry here. If I can find some cheap, that would rock. What about painting? Is there any way to practice some without ruining my good models?
Have a test model. This will be one of your basic infantry models that you can first paint to get an idea of a paint scheme. If it looks good, you can apply that to the rest of your army (as a general rule of thumb, always paint your basic troops first before your specialty models like HQ characters), and if it doesn't, you can strip the paint (brake fluid seems to be the popular choice for this, though search some dedicated WH40K sites for this) and try again. The reason you'll want to paint your basic troops first is because the special characters will be the de facto centerpieces of your army, and you'll want to have practice so you can give them the extra needed detail.
Somtimes they will have a day or anyday where they will teach you how to paint a model. Sometimes they even have free paint for you to to use.
But to be honest to get better at painting you have to paint. So don't worry about messing up on some models.
You could allways go buy some cheap plastic toy army guys and pratice painting those.
A can of primer is about 3ish dollars. You can get a set of brushes for like 5/15 bucks at the bigger stores. Games workshop type paints run for 2/3 bucks each. But if you hit a craft store they'll have bottles twice as big as the gw stuff for a buck each. Any waterbased paint will do.
You'll also need a can of sealer for another 3/4 bucks.
Flock or sand will run you another 5ish bucks and another 5 for superglue.
I've seen the prices cheaper on like.. ebay and randomly when hobby stores have sales. I'm hitting any open hobby stores tommorow myself to ask if theyre haveing labor day sale thingies and such, though, not many do.
Also, REAL nerd game shops that sell the stuff like that and are nice and friendly can probalby teach you to paint, give you tips, and MABY even a nice deal on paint if you buy a bunch at once.
There is a rough equivlent to what the citidel paints are color-wise on that site, id suggest picking ones from it and planting them on the units in your mind.
When I bought my guys I justified it as buying it once and never really needing to buy any more ever again.
And for army suggestions what kind of stuff do you like? Long range? Close combat? Fast attack? Sheer power? Sheer numbers? Hard to kill? Tanks? Infantry? DrPaintThinner fucked around with this message on 09-04-2005 at 05:49 AM.
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Everyone wondered WTF when Arrenn Lightblade wrote:
Also, any suggestions for armies? Imperial Guard looked kinda cool. Or Orkz. Orkz were a lot of fun in Dawn of War.
Pick whatever army you think will be fun to build/paint/slaughter with.
I like the dark eldar because they're INSANE fast and Really piss everyone off.
I know very little about the Eldar, except that they beat the piss out of me when i was dark eldar.
Imp guard has the "tank collum" if you have the cash for it which can DECIMATE a few of the armys.
Necrons are just evil and brokenly powerful, but are weak vs eldar and dark eldar lances. (your a whore if you play them, according to most people.)
Sisters of battle(witch hunters) are AWSOMEly powerful on occasion, if you rack up faith points like all hell and get lucky rolls it can just be insane how invincible they can be.
Space marines and chaos space marines are... well... boring in my opinion, but hey, some people like them.
Tyranids.. Ever play the zerg in starcraft.. yea, just like that.
The TAU are good on LONG range fields, they have railguns(that hurt bad), but will get SLAUGHTERED at close range.
I've never played as or seen the Daemonhunters or orks in action...
(noone at michigan tech that i found had them)
THats my rough crappy approximation of the races. any more questions, be specific and ask.
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Y.O.T.C painfully thought these words up:
The TAU are good on LONG range fields, they have railguns(that hurt bad), but will get SLAUGHTERED at close range.
I 
tau. Anyone who gets close enough isnt going to be alive long enough to do anything about it! 
The army you pick realy depends on the size of boards you'll be playing on, and the money you can afford to pay. And of corse what type of army you would like to play.
Also, The newer kits from GW are a bit more moola than the older kits (The SM Combat squads used to be $15, now are $20, you might as well spend the extra $15 and get the tactical squad) Aside from the kickass new molds, the only other good thing about the new minis are that they toss in more of the bitz and optional parts(The new termi kits come with they cyclone Missle and Assault cannons now, before you hade to buy a seperate metal Mini for those)
Also, for paints, If you are starting band new, go for a paint set from GWS. But for brushes, hit up the Walmart or local crafty place. For thinners, I usally use rubbing alchol, which is like $1 for more than you need in a long time if you are brush painting.
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DrPaintThinner got a whole lot of nerve:
Itau. Anyone who gets close enough isnt going to be alive long enough to do anything about it!
Tell that to the nids 
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Quoth Dave:
40k totaly depends on how your friends/oppents are. The rules are not exact so sometimes you just have to go with a common sense call. But if you are playing an asshole rule lawyering can be a pain.The costs can be high so you may want to look at the player market like from bartertown or something.
I've found that the rules are generally pretty well written, and most problems stem from people unable to read.
That said, it is an expensive hobby when one tallies the paints, rules, and models--not to mention the time to paint. But if you limit your initial purchases to the basic rulebook, your particular codex, a 500- or 750-point army, and just the modeling supplies you need to assemble and paint them, it'll be almost reasonable. And by that I mean several hundred dollars.
As for armies, I'd recommend two: Space Marines or Tyranids. Those are the only two codices written especially for the current version of the basic rules, and thus enjoy perhaps a bit of superiority over others at the moment. Plus, Space Marines are by far the most popular army.
If you live in a decent-sized town with a GW store, games shouldn't be hard to find, either.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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This insanity brought to you by Bloodsage:
BTW, painting isn't as hard as it sounds. Just find a painting guide for your army and follow the step-by-step instructions. It won't be the most original, but it'll mean your army turns out pretty nice.
Yeah, listen to this. Even if you never learn to paint really nicely, tabletop painted looks incredibly much better than unpainted or just basecoated. It isn't really hard at all.
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Arrenn Lightblade had this to say about Pirotess:
So, which would be better between Orks and Imperial Guard? Both look spiffy to me, so I am not sure which I would want to go with.
Both will involve LOTS AND LOTS of painting, as both have hordes of inexpensive (points wise, not $ wise) troops.
Orks are a slow moving melee horde army (unless you play a variant list like Kult of Speed) and they are strong against armies like marines and necrons if you can keep your things from getting shot up before they get into close combat.
Imperial Guard (hereafter referred to as IG) are a shooty army, and good if you like tanks. Tanks aren't the only thing they have going for them though, as they also boast more special weapons by number available to them than any other army. Their weakness is that they're weak in close combat, and a fast moving horde army like Nids will usually give them a tough time.
There are variant lists to both Orks and IG (though with IG it's a doctrine system that lets you tweak the initial force) but for a beginner I recommend sticking with a "vanilla" (i.e. basic) force.
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Quoth Arrenn Lightblade:
So, which would be better between Orks and Imperial Guard? Both look spiffy to me, so I am not sure which I would want to go with.
Ask yourself this question: do I really want to paint several hundred models? If yes, proceed on course. If not, you might consider another army. 
Of the two, I think IG are more competitive under the current version of the rules, but Orks are easier to paint and probably less common. And IG have Sentinals, which are the coolest models in the game.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage was listening to Cher while typing:
Ask yourself this question: do I really want to paint several hundred models? If yes, proceed on course. If not, you might consider another army.Of the two, I think IG are more competitive under the current version of the rules, but Orks are easier to paint and probably less common. And IG have Sentinals, which are the coolest models in the game.
Orks are also not-newbie-friendly in the sense that a lot of their units do not have models. In addition, their vehicle models are ridiculously small as they're remnants from a previous edition and not in the proper scale. As such, you'll be doing a lot of conversions if you want to field anything other than basic troops. Not that this is a bad thing, as with it you'll create some very unique models (current project is a wartrukk transport modeled on walker legs).
Conversions might be an issue for me, unless I can somehow get some really good lessons. Or the conversions are reasonably easy to do.
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Arrenn Lightblade's fortune cookie read:
I know that I would be doing a lot of painting with either army, and I am ok with that.Conversions might be an issue for me, unless I can somehow get some really good lessons. Or the conversions are reasonably easy to do.
Conversions can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make them. I'll use ork 'Ard Boyz (heavily armored orks) as an example. In the basic ork boyz box, there are beefy looking shoulderpads, head models with helmets, and metal jaw plates. You can slap these on to make a good looking armored ork. That's simple. On the other hand, there have been people who go all out, modeling them with custom armor and riot shields made from plasticard. Like I said, it's all up to you.
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Liam thought about the meaning of life:
Tell that to the nids
Oh I will. They will be like "Hay whats that whistling noise? I dont even see the ene... BAM railgun sub-munitions in the face. Then "Ohshitguys! crisis suits and stealth troops... with burst cannons! ARRRGGHHH!"
Skaw fucked around with this message on 09-04-2005 at 06:40 PM.
I loved my Tyranid army. Genestealers + Carnifex up front, Lictors in the back! Drag n' Shred!
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Skaw had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Been out of the WH40k loop for a long time, but is IG still "Swarm the Enemy and win through sheer numbers!"?
I loved my Tyranid army. Genestealers up front, Lictors in the back!
IG CAN be "swarm the enemy" but now it's "sit back and shoot with heavy weapons, and let the lasgun troops soak up fire" or "tnaks lol".
Thats one of the best aspects of IG, easy access to most of the mobile armor.
Genestealer Cults were fun too, since they were basically IG + Genestealers + Psionics. Too bad they weren't too popular Skaw fucked around with this message on 09-04-2005 at 06:45 PM.
I used to double my IG as a Cult with my Tyranids 'stealers and a Magus waaaaaaaaaaay back in 2E.
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Bent over the coffee table, Azizza squealed:
I have a friend and his GF that I play with consistently. We still play real 40K (2nd Edition) It has its problems but we have fixed most of them with house rules. I can't stand the kiddyfied rules that make up 3rd and 4th edition. THe new rules basically boil down to: Run into hand to hand combat as fast as you can, get the charge and win the game. They have done away with common sense and just tried to make a fast game. Yes one game in 2nd edition is going to take hours. But you are going to be able to use tactics more complicated than a Rhino Rush.
Written by somebody without a clue on v4. Sorry, bud, but the Rhino Rush died a horrible death after v3. And shooting is extremely powerful in the new edition, too. If you're going to whine and act superior, at least get your facts straight. 
It's fine if you like insanely complicated stupidity where ICs rule, but don't try to make out that yours is somehow the real way to play. I, for one, think complication for its own sake is ridiculous. 
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
I also prefer the armor system in the old rules. you have a base armor save modified by the type of weapon hitting it. Simple and to the point.
Don't get me wrong. I think there have been a lot of good ideas in the new rules. In fact we have incorporated a lot of them into our rules. Hell You can't even really say we play second Edition anymore. We have changed so much.
So far the best system I have seen though is Starship Troopers. We are considering trying to work a bit of it into 40K
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Azizza had this to say about Tron:
I am aware that the Rhino Rush isn't usable in 4th Edition anymore. It was just an example. The rules are still simplified to the point I find them useless. For instance, Hand to hand combat. In 2nd edition every person that is fighting would roll against each other. You had two warriors fighting it out. In the new rules you have two units make contact, the one that charges gets a chance to kill the others and then most of the others don't get to fight back. I am sorry but I just dont' see the sense behind rules being set up this way. Maybe I just prefer the more individualized focus of 2nd edition to the unit focus of 3rd/4th edition.I also prefer the armor system in the old rules. you have a base armor save modified by the type of weapon hitting it. Simple and to the point.
Don't get me wrong. I think there have been a lot of good ideas in the new rules. In fact we have incorporated a lot of them into our rules. Hell You can't even really say we play second Edition anymore. We have changed so much.
So far the best system I have seen though is Starship Troopers. We are considering trying to work a bit of it into 40K
The only benefit charging gives is an extra attack, initiative still determines who strikes first.
I prefer unit-level rather than individual tactics, however, so like v4. Individual combat died with the Greeks, and I see no reason to ressurect it now. But you are correct: for those that prefer individual combats and powerful ICs, v2 is a better cup o' tea.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage impressed everyone with:
Not sure what you're talking about in CC, because the chargers don't get any I bonus (though they get an extra attack)--so if a low initiative unit charges a high intiative unit (an SM tac squad charging Genestealers, for instance), it's quite possible they'll get wiped before they get to swing.I prefer unit-level rather than individual tactics, however, so like v4. Individual combat died with the Greeks, and I see no reason to ressurect it now.
But you are correct: for those that prefer individual combats and powerful ICs, v2 is a better cup o' tea.
It isn't that individuals are so powerful, it is that each model in the unit is treated as an individual I just like that. I would be the first to admit that the stock 2nd edition rules suck balls. I just find them a better base for the game I like to play. We tried 3rd edition. It lasted about 3 months till we gave up. We talked about trying 4th edition but the things we didn't like about 3rd were still there overall so we said fuck it.
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Bloodsage was all like:
Not sure what you're talking about in CC, because the chargers don't get any I bonus
Furious Charge +1 str +1 int
4th ed is much more shooty than 3rd ed was. The new rapid fire rules are pretty nice. And so is the ablity to force a save on one model if you wound with enough shots. Dave fucked around with this message on 09-05-2005 at 03:53 AM.
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Dave had this to say about Duck Tales:
You can field a godzilla tyranid army with the new codex, upto 6 carnfex's and 2 hive tyrants. It's pretty nasty.
Furious Charge +1 str +1 int4th ed is much more shooty than 3rd ed was. The new rapid fire rules are pretty nice. And so is the ablity to force a save on one model if you wound with enough shots.
And how many armies have furious charge?
Troop somehow? That'd kickass. I'd be a shooty asshole with 3 carni troops.
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Sakkra had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
And how many armies have furious charge?
Its a universal rule I think and units that have this would mention it in the codex. Orks get the additional chance for a WAAAGH!! when charging in combat. This is a chance to double combat initiative. It also affects groups in sweeping advances for even more CC devastation .
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How.... Liam.... uughhhhhh:
How do you field 6 carni's in 4e? I haven't read the new codex, but I'm assuming you can genomorph them into something besides heavy?Troop somehow? That'd kickass. I'd be a shooty asshole with 3 carni troops.
I heard genomorphing was removed, but i beleive fexs can now do tyrant guard duty(might be mistaken on that part).
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Y.O.T.C has funnier quote texts than me:
I heard genomorphing was removed, but i beleive fexs can now do tyrant guard duty(might be mistaken on that part).
... If they can be tyrant guards... oh holy shit I can rape some doods in WH40k 4e
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DrPaintThinner has funnier quote texts than me:
Oh I will. They will be like "Hay whats that whistling noise? I dont even see the ene... BAM railgun sub-munitions in the face. Then "Ohshitguys! crisis suits and stealth troops... with burst cannons! ARRRGGHHH!"
all i have to post is lol. Liam fucked around with this message on 09-05-2005 at 05:00 AM.
