Anyone care to talk about this?
Some people are like Slinkys... Not really good for anything, But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
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jackman didn't get much USO. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat. He had only two ways home: death, or victory.
Anyone care to talk about this?
No.
It's not something people hear about.
Taylor, 66, was arrested May 18 on a charge of misdemeanor battery following a brawl with two Punta Gorda Middle School students he was trying to discipline. The boys, Mark Ernest Dickinson, 15, and his brother, Corey Gene Hendershot, 13, were also arrested, each on a charge of assault on a school official. A videotape of the fight, filmed by a bus security camera, has been played extensively on national television news shows. This tape however does not have all the verbal abuse the boys directed at Mr. Taylor. It really only shows the physical events that occurred, which makes it appear like Mr. Taylor without cause just slapped and grabbed a child.
According to sheriff's reports, the fight happened last Tuesday afternoon when the driver, Albert M. Taylor, 66 was having a problem with a few students who were causing a disruption. He stopped the bus and got out of his seat to speak to a student. He forcibly put a seat belt on the male student, then returned to his seat and called the Sheriff's Office.
Taylor said he asked Corey Gene Hendershot, 13, three times to come to the front of the bus but he refused. Taylor then walked to the rear of the bus to get Hendershot to come to the front. Mark Ernest Dickinson, 15, Hendershot's older brother, jumped into the aisle and headed for the driver, cursing at him. Taylor turned around, allegedly slapped Dickinson in the face and grabbed him by the throat. A struggle continued and Hendershot became involved and started toward Taylor.
Taylor headed to the front of the bus and Dickinson followed. Taylor said he turned around and Dickinson pushed him in the chest and hit him in the face. Hendershot then walked up to Taylor and punched him in the right side. A videotape on the bus was running during the entire incident and was sealed and placed into evidence.
Immediately following his arrest, Taylor was placed on suspension with pay and the Florida Education Association union will be providing Taylor with resources for criminal representation and defense.
Taylor has been under a lot of stress since Hurricane Charley. His house was destroyed and he had to move twice, and deal with the added pressure of more bus routes and longer hours. He has had to work day and night driving students attending double sessions In order to make up lost school time. That means 12-, 14-, 16-hour days for some drivers. Drivers are pressured to not take time off as bus routes have increased 30% (EST.)
The charge the boys face is a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in juvenile justice facility Taylor could spend a year in jail if convicted. The boys, 13-year-old Corey Hendershot and 15-year-old Mark Dickinson, are charged with felony assault of a school official. (You punch, spit on or do anything to a Florida school official you have to charge them with felony) The bus driver 66-year-old Albert Taylor faces misdemeanor battery.
Taylor, who has been a bus driver for the county since 2001, has had no previous incidents like the one on Wednesday. A review of his personal file showed Taylor to have a near-perfect track record with only two minor warnings concerning traffic lights. In an employee review in 2003, Taylor had a perfect score, having all "effective performance" marks -- the highest someone can score.
The State Attorney's Office has not yet filed formal charges in the case.
Personally I dont think the driver should have struck the child, but as a reasonable person I can understand why. He was in charge and the kids were verbally abusing him so he slapped him in the face much like a parent would to their own unruly child, or a woman who was insulted. Those kids were no Angels, yet in the end I bet they end up with no real punishment while Mr. Taylor loses his job and benefits
Some people are like Slinkys... Not really good for anything, But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Some people are like Slinkys... Not really good for anything, But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
I've seen this video about 472 times in the past three days.
No, I dont want to dscuss it.
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Nobody really understood why NullDevice wrote:
I haven't seen or heard jack about this. Mainly because I don't watch TV or anything like that.
That and whoop-dee-fucking-doo. It seems two kids were misbehaving and the bus driver did what he had to do to get the kids to settle down.
DO YOU WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CREATION OF A SERIAL RAPIST?!?!?!?
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Byrnie was listening to Cher while typing:DO YOU WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CREATION OF A SERIAL RAPIST?!?!?!?
Can I set the rapist loose on whomever I please?
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Ares was listening to Cher while typing:
Woot. I havn't seen it once. Good Ol' Canadian TV.
Me either, but that might just be that I never have time to watch TV TT_TT
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Maradon! stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Tonfas and high-voltage stun guns. The ones that make you puke.
Yeah, the parents would LOVE that -_- Kait fucked around with this message on 05-25-2005 at 03:47 PM.
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Kaiting:
Yeah, the parents would LOVE that -_-
Most people who have kids these days could hardly qualify as "parents".
Those who are competent don't have to worry about their kid getting zapped.
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Byrnieing:
ahh but being a compotent parent isn't PC now is it?
"Politically correct" and "Cripplingly stupid" are synonyms.
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Maradon! had this to say about Captain Planet:
"Politically correct" and "Cripplingly stupid" are synonyms.
Yeah damn those PC bastards for not letting us taser and beat schoolkids!
The anti-PC backlash has become more far worse than the worst excesses of political correctness have ever been.
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Channeling the spirit of Sherlock Holmes, Mod absently fondled Watson and proclaimed:
Yeah damn those PC bastards for not letting us taser and beat schoolkids!The anti-PC backlash has become more far worse than the worst excesses of political correctness have ever been.
Again I say, "Bullshit."
You need to distinguish between the joking about using tasers on schoolkids, and the no-shit actions the PC movement has taken in the name of multi-culturalism and self-esteem. We have baseball leagues where every kid gets to take a base because the possibility of failure might damage their fragile psyche. We have kids arrested for cutting an apple with a plastic butter knife because "all knives are weapons"--notwithstanding the fact that anything is a weapon in the hands of someone violent. We have schools that don't issue grades because of the implication that some students are better than others--viva l'egalite. Et cetera.
Why on earth do you think we have morons suing fast food restaurants because they're fat? The PC movement.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
The problem is that bus drivers aren't even conditioned to respond like teachers are. Most of them have other jobs. In some places, elementary school buses are driven by high schoolers with their bus licenses (where I was in NC, for instance). The fact is that unless struck first, or there is a brawl going on on the bus that NEEDS to be broken up, bus drivers should not get involved. Park the vehicle or go back to the school. In most places Vice Principals (at least one) has to stay on school premises til the buses return or arrive at their final destination point (for schools who's buses go multiple runs in the morning). Go back early and the VPrincipal will be VERY interested in troublemaker students who cause the school problems.
So the guy shouldn't have gotten out of his seat. And if he struck first, he was in the wrong, no matter the mitigating circumstances
But there are other cases. Right before I moved up here to Indiana, a teacher at a school in G'Ville NC got temporarily suspended for shoving a kid into a fire hydrant as they were boarding the bus for a field trip. Kid had cracked ribs from how he hit the hydrant. All these parents were furious. Turns out the kid was a discipline problem, and more to the point people saw him pop the teacher in the figs. As any man on this board will likely tell you, your first reaction when someone's attacking your groin is to get them away. The fact there was a hydrant behind the little hoodlum is just a sad coincidence.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael was naked while typing this:
Eh...There are two sides to every story. Frankly if the kid was supposed to be wearing a seatbelt and refused to, park the bus in the hot sun and call the cops. Explain to all the parents that the reason their child was later getting home was due to X child. Worked when I was in middle school/high school.The problem is that bus drivers aren't even conditioned to respond like teachers are. Most of them have other jobs. In some places, elementary school buses are driven by high schoolers with their bus licenses (where I was in NC, for instance). The fact is that unless struck first, or there is a brawl going on on the bus that NEEDS to be broken up, bus drivers should not get involved. Park the vehicle or go back to the school. In most places Vice Principals (at least one) has to stay on school premises til the buses return or arrive at their final destination point (for schools who's buses go multiple runs in the morning). Go back early and the VPrincipal will be VERY interested in troublemaker students who cause the school problems.
So the guy shouldn't have gotten out of his seat. And if he struck first, he was in the wrong, no matter the mitigating circumstances
But there are other cases. Right before I moved up here to Indiana, a teacher at a school in G'Ville NC got temporarily suspended for shoving a kid into a fire hydrant as they were boarding the bus for a field trip. Kid had cracked ribs from how he hit the hydrant. All these parents were furious. Turns out the kid was a discipline problem, and more to the point people saw him pop the teacher in the figs. As any man on this board will likely tell you, your first reaction when someone's attacking your groin is to get them away. The fact there was a hydrant behind the little hoodlum is just a sad coincidence.
I am reminded of a case in Temecula not too long ago of a gang of five or six young adolescents who beat the crap out of, and eventually killed, a migrant MExican worker who was just out on his own, doing his job.
I think a lot of people mistakenly view children as these cute, innocent creatures, when, in fact, quite a large number of children are capable of violent crimes and, yes, even murder.
HOWEVER, it's the parents job to decide what the proper punishment is (as long at it isn't abuse). I know I'd be pretty pissed off if an adult who is supposed to work with children struck my child.
If the children really did strike first, than IMO he (the driver) was in the right. If not, he should be repremanded.
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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Ares who doth quote:
What happend to the good ol' days when you could be the shit of out your kids?
PC movement.
We had "time outs" at my house. There were two types of time outs at my house, in fact.
Type one: If my Dad's arm grew tired at any point during the beating, he would call a time out until he recovered enough to resume.
Type two: If I began to bleed too profusely, especially from the head area, I was able to call a time out for long enough for my Mom to bandage the wounded area before the beating continued.
If kids are acting up like this on the bus, the bus driver needed to be an adult and notify the parents. And the parents needed to follow up on that and come down on the children for running their mouth. We have entirely too many adults running around this country who are not willing to carry themselves in a responsible manner, and I think the result of that is that children don't have many decent role models. I firmly believe children are mostly products of their environment. If you show them respect for others, they'll pick up on that.
-Tok
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
I made it a point to never get sent home. 
-Tok Toktuk fucked around with this message on 05-26-2005 at 01:40 AM.
Most young kids are unable to differentiate between a disciplinary whack on the ass and getting the shit beaten out of them. I know this seems ridiculous, but seriously think about it. Both are going to cause physical pain (though in different degrees) and both are done as a result of the same actions and by the same person (whichever parent). Young children probably won't understand the resulting injuries. They will see it as the result of something they did that was bad, by their parent, that hurts. People may have decided that in order to try and prevent the abuse of children that it was necessary to have a very clear definition or what is ok to do. (ie it isn't ok to touch)
Many people are dumbasses. It logically follows that many parents are dumbasses as well. You don't necessarily want to leave decisions about children in their hands. Of course it went way overboard, and now discerning and intelligent parents (and children) pay the price.
Not all kids are alike. There are many who will never need any kind of physical punishment or even the threat of physical punishment. So people look at those children and assume that all children are like that; that they will never need physical punishment. For example, I never needed any type of physical punishment, so I have trouble understanding those that do. But there are enough people that swear by it that I assume it has at least some merit. Still, I don't understand why there is nostalgia to the days of getting whacked.
Kids will stay inside boundries if you set them in a clear manner. If you aren't consistent with your rules, then you either end up being to lenient and have a spoiled brat or you end up yelling too much and distancing your child from you. But it's not rocket science. Use small words that they can grasp what you're trying to say. Ask them to repeat back what you've said so you know if they really grasp the concept you laid down and/or if they're paying attention.
-Tok
In parts of East Asia, especially Japan, kids are allowed to be kids. Many families don't use any form of discipline for small children. Not even a "Don't do that!" They let them do whatever and make asses of themselves. I won't say exactly that Japan's society is much more disciplined than our society, but it's probably at least as disciplined.
I suppose this isn't really comparable, though... Japan is a shame society. In guilt societies, you basically need some method of creating guilt feelings within children. This can be either physical or mental. Spankings do a good job of this. Some mothers can also do this with just their words. But, without either, one kind of falls apart.
Other than that, the mere threat of my old man spanking me/smacking me around was enough to keep me in line......until high school that is 
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Caid '5 Fists' Berrit had this to say about Punky Brewster:
My mom hit me with a wooden spoon once D:Other than that, the mere threat of my old man spanking me/smacking me around was enough to keep me in line......until high school that is
Yeah, I got a few slaps on the ass and threatened with the wooden spoon (then she got pissed off when she smashed it on the stairs to scare us). 
Other than that, I behaved... My sister on the other hand.. We have so many broken doors from her in the house. They used to lock her in her room because her time out would mean that she couldn't leave the room. My mom also slapped her right across the face after my sister yelled at her that a smack on the ass was abuse. *SLAP* That's abuse, go call a cop!" ...
Man, that was always fun... Sister running away with her pink Barbie suitcase (to nextdoor) Ares fucked around with this message on 05-26-2005 at 10:00 AM.
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Ares wrote this in the snow with their pee:
Yeah, I got a few slaps on the ass and threatened with the wooden spoon (then she got pissed off when she smashed it on the stairs to scare us).
Other than that, I behaved... My sister on the other hand.. We have so many broken doors from her in the house. They used to lock her in her room because her time out would mean that she couldn't leave the room. My mom also slapped her right across the face after my sister yelled at her that a smack on the ass was abuse. *SLAP* That's abuse, go call a cop!" ...Man, that was always fun... Sister running away with her pink Barbie suitcase (to nextdoor)
hehhehe, I can't picture her doing something like.... wait, no, I can.
I got a couple of smacks on the ass from my grandparents, but my parents never laid a hand on me, unless it was dragging me somewhere when I refused to move.
I got the time outs standing in the corner, and groundings.
I got grounded up until I left for college. and I missed 3 out of 5 of my proms. For my mom, that was the ulitmate punishment.
and it was, I was soooooo pissed at her. One time, we had a screaming match where we made each other cry, and my dad was in alabama so when he phoned, he had to rectify it via portable phone.
It's funny now, but back then it was hell.
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Bloodsage had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
I used to dread the words, "Go cut me a switch!" from my grandfather. Nothing like fashioning the instrument of your own punishment. Hell, I remember the days when teachers and coaches at school had paddles--and weren't afraid to use them.
My best friend's parents had a small canoe paddle (tiny, about 18" long) that said this on one side:
"The Board of Education, Applied to the Seat of Higher Learning."
Along the handle: "I need thee every hour"
On the reverse side: "She wouldn't kiss me in the canoe, so I paddled her back"
Questions about weather it was indeed used on "The Seat of Higher Learning" were never answered. 
One of my teachers in high school would also speak of a Sister (nun) at his Catholic School who didn't use a ruler for punishment. She had a key ring... filled with those HUGE skeleton keys of days gone by.
My kids at 6 and (almost) 4 get time out, repeated transgressions yield loss of TV shows, bedtime books, (bedtime books are VERY rarely lost because it's also educational and has the 4 year old learning to read at the same time her elder sister has been learning) or friends coming over to visit. Spankings have only occured when something was done to another person (usually a sibling) in malice. Never the face, only the bottom, where God gave them padding. I can count on one hand how many times it has come down to a spanking. I do not have to raise my voice to attempt to correct my children. I get very close to thier face and whisper my wishes through clenched teeth. It works quite well.
Disipline needs to be consistant and fair. One of my biggest pet peeves are parents that reinforce the actions of thier kids or try to downplay it. Toddler hits another toddler and the one that is hitting gets picked up and carried around, adding in a comment about "they're just kids." This is reinforcing the action. The kid thinks, if I hit someone, I'll get picked up and cuddled or hugged. Mary and I have done just the opposite, the kid getting hit gets ALL the attention and then the hitter gets put in a time out. Whining because someone has "more" of something gets what was proffered taken away. "What's that? Your sister has more ice cream than you and you want more? Well, now she has ice cream and you don't." It has happened TWICE, once from each kid. They get exposed to the unfairness of life by losing small pleasures. The niceties of life need to be a part of thier language, "please and thank you" are REQUIRED. "Excuse me, I'm sorry and you're welcome" are also required. We get CONSTANT compliments from friends, teachers, relatives and complete strangers on how polite our girls are. I tend to expect the same from other peoples kids, but I'm seeing a distinct lack of it. Usually from the same parents who think the (non)grading system the school district adopted is a good idea or that thier kids issues are the fault of a teacher or school.
Expectations always need to be set high in my opinion. I don't like the (non)grading system that they have here in Superior. I think it only occurs in the Elementary level, but it still should be set early so kids know what to expect becuase college isn't going to be so kind. They don't start teaching the kids to read until the first grade, I could read before I started kindergarten. Sabrina is learning to read very quickly on her own here at home. Part of this comes from the fact that one of her best friends from Kindergarten could read at age 3, that's a desire of Sabrina's: to be able to read books to her friend too. Her friend reads books to Sabrina whenever she's over here. Her little sister is picking up reading too because she's able to watch her sister work with thier mom or me. Just last night Tiffy was picking out words in a book her mom had read to her a couple of times yesterday.
Parenting is work! Those that think otherwise, those that think the school system should teach thier children what to think and how to act should never have had children in the first place. My friends also take the time to instruct or discipline my children if I'm not around or unaware of "house rules", they expect the same from me. Simple verbal corrections of "In this house, we don't so suchandsuch, we do this." It's not difficult work, but it is work nonetheless and it's rewarding!
*chuckles* We have to take a test to get a driver license, perhaps a test on how to raise kids is in order. Maybe it would take care of the overpopulation and the problems of children killing, raping, or being a general burden to society.
(DISCLAIMER: The preceding paragraph was in jest. If you are too thin skinned to find it funny, flames are not required and will be ignored)
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ACES! Another post by Ares:
What happend to the good ol' days when you could be the shit of out your kids? (not seriously, I mean a smack on the ass). I was smacked on the ass. Kids now, never. It's "abuse" and not discipline, this is why there are more little shit-heads and spoiled punks.
People have been complaining about how youth tend to be worse and worse every generation since the beginning of time due to the fact that they look at their own and their peers' shenanigans with rose-colored glasses or because they were just sheltered from them. Here's an example of someone complaining about the same thing around 1200 AD (Some websites attribute it to Socrates, but since people tend to attribute everything they hear to him I went with the later of the possible dates).
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The world is passing through troubled times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress.
Apparently culture has been on a permanent downward spiral since people started unfairly chipping away at patria potestas.
The actual operative theory is that punishments lie on a continuum. On the lighter side of the spectrum are verbal warnings, etc, and what should be at the opposite end, the last resort end, is a physical blow.
The logic is that you can raise your voice or move to removing a benefit (TV, grounding them to the house, their room, etc) for quite a while. Once you resort to hitting a child, however, you're left with no room to go farther, save to hit the child harder.
So that's problem one: It limits your options.
Are you angry with your child when you punish them? That's problem two. When you're angry or enraged, your ability to judge the force of your blow is lessened. Couple that with the fact a child is far more fragile than an adult and your blow intended to be a regulating measure could easily become a damaging action.
And you should never resort to using a wooden spoon or a paddle. If you're going to spank someone, use your hand. Why? Because using a club (which is essentially what a wooden spoon or a paddle is) or a whip (which is more or less what a switch is) involves lever action that multiplies force. Paddles at least seek to spread the force of impact out over a surface, but a switch is a narrow point of impact. Likewise, bare-ass spanking just makes it all worse.
So the actual statement is that a parent should try other means, or at least know beforehand what qualifies as an action worthy of what sort of punishment, rather than operating on the fly. They should never punish in the heat of the moment. Sit the child down and regain your temper. If you feel the need to be angry at your child to punish them, you're already risking some problems. The punishment isn't about how angry you are at the moment. It's about curtailing an unwanted behavior in the child. And the understanding should be that if the child has to be hit, then there is a near-terminal breakdown in the parent's ability to control the child.
And at the same time you have to encourage good behavior. You have to remind children that good behavior means they're getting benefits. Most parents think it's cheesy or hokey to tell their kids on a regular basis that they're good kids (when, of course, the child is in fact being good).
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
My philosophy teacher says he never has to hit or yell (excessively) at his children, he just rationally helps them realize why their misbehavior makes no sense, so that of their own accord they behave better. Good luck...I don't want to be close-minded and immediately throw the idea out the window, but on the other hand, how rational can a three-year-old be?
I just realized I can't recall if my dad was ever a physical disciplinarian. I find this odd. Research is required.
I don't plan on ever having kids, but if I do you can be damn sure they're not going to live some sheltered life where everything they do is ok. I have a hard time hitting people (except in jest), so I can't imagine getting angry enough to damage a child, but I don't know how often I'd result to spanking either.
