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Author
Topic: Yet another WoW question thread.
Kael
Whistlepig
posted 04-11-2005 05:29:19 AM
quote:
Blackened was naked while typing this:
http://www.thottbot.com/?ti=Warrior Or use WoW Vault's talent calc.

Thanks, I'll try doing a little learning on my own now

DrPaintThinner
Anti-Semite
posted 04-11-2005 05:30:23 AM
quote:
Blackened had this to say about Robocop:
Ironically enough, switching to another stance could yield things such as more crits, damage, or something even better than defense.

Post your current spec regardless, I want to see where you're putting all of those too-valueable points.


Arms Talents (31 points)

# Deflection - 5/5 points
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

# Improved Rend - 3/3 points
Increases the bleed damage done by your Rend ability by 35%.

# Improved Thunder Clap - 2/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Thunder Clap by 16%.

# Improved Charge - 2/2 points
Increases the rage generated by your Charge ability by 6.

# Improved Overpower - 2/2 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Overpower ability by 50%.

# Deep Wounds - 3/3 points
Your critical strikes cause the opponent to bleed, dealing 60% of your melee weapon's average damage over 12 seconds.

# Impale - 2/2 points
Increases the critical strike damage done by your abilities in Battle, Defensive, and Berserker stance by 20%.

# Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases the damage you deal with two-handed weapons melee weapons by 5%.

# Axe Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Axes by 5%.

# Sweeping Strikes - 1/1 point
You next 5 melee weapon swings strike an additional nearby opponent.

# Mortal Strike - 1/1 point
A vicious strike that deals 200% weapon damage and wounds the target, reducing the effectiveness of any healing by 50% for 10 seconds.

Fury Talents (5 points)

# Cruelty - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to get a critical strike with melee weapons by 5%.

Protection Talents (15 points)

# Shield Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to block attacks with a shield by 5%.

# Anticipation - 5/5 points
Increases your Defense skill by 10.

# Toughness - 5/5 points
Increases your armor value from items by 10%.

Here's my spec. Oh and my opnion is all ready 1/3 (if that) as valid as anyone elses it seems, so I'm up to 1/9 now, or worse.

Reading what you've writen, the only way I would want to change is 2 points out of thunder clap and 2 into anger management. And maybe some from anticipation. It seems like 10+ defensive skill could be acheived by the right sheild or armor.

Gah! Now you've got me doubting myself! Well played... Well played indeed.

roit, less bash 'is noggin
Blackened
posted 04-11-2005 05:54:52 AM
quote:
DrPaintThinner had this to say about dark elf butts:
Arms Talents (31 points)

# Deflection - 5/5 points
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

# Improved Rend - 3/3 points
Increases the bleed damage done by your Rend ability by 35%.

# Improved Thunder Clap - 2/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Thunder Clap by 16%.

# Improved Charge - 2/2 points
Increases the rage generated by your Charge ability by 6.

# Improved Overpower - 2/2 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Overpower ability by 50%.

# Deep Wounds - 3/3 points
Your critical strikes cause the opponent to bleed, dealing 60% of your melee weapon's average damage over 12 seconds.

# Impale - 2/2 points
Increases the critical strike damage done by your abilities in Battle, Defensive, and Berserker stance by 20%.

# Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases the damage you deal with two-handed weapons melee weapons by 5%.

# Axe Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to get a critical strike with Axes by 5%.

# Sweeping Strikes - 1/1 point
You next 5 melee weapon swings strike an additional nearby opponent.

# Mortal Strike - 1/1 point
A vicious strike that deals 200% weapon damage and wounds the target, reducing the effectiveness of any healing by 50% for 10 seconds.


Axe spec is a waste of 5 talents points. What happens when you're not using an axe? That's 5 of your so valuable talent points that are gone to waste. If you're so deadset on speccing, however, two-Handed Weapon is the best spec of them all, simply because it yields the most consistant extra damage.

Drop those 2 in Improved Thunderclap. I can't even begin to start on how worthless 2 points spent there are.

As far as your Protection Tree, you can drop Shield Spec, as it's pretty much worthless with how shields are currently. 5% chance you'll block is horrible.


Although my distaste for you as a human being is brobdingnagian,
what I'm about to do isn't personal.
Mr. Parcelan
posted 04-11-2005 05:56:04 AM
I'd dump axe spec. I find that I switch weapons too much to gain benefit from those. It may be different for you, though.

Improved Thunderclap? I don't think it's really that much worth it. You use TC for the slowdown, not the damage.

Dump that into TM and AM and you'll be unstoppable.

Mr. Parcelan
posted 04-11-2005 05:56:59 AM
Blackened agrees with me because he knows I am wise.
Blackened
posted 04-11-2005 05:58:03 AM
quote:
Nobody really understood why Mr. Parcelan wrote:
Dump that into TM and AM and get some skill and you'll be unstoppable.
Yeah.

Although my distaste for you as a human being is brobdingnagian,
what I'm about to do isn't personal.
Mr. Parcelan
posted 04-11-2005 05:59:18 AM
What a sheep he is.
DrPaintThinner
Anti-Semite
posted 04-11-2005 07:28:43 AM
The Crits are what I based my strategy on. I always use axes. Including when I tank, My one hand wep is an ax. Right now If im wearing the right gear I can crit about 20%. If im not I can crit about 17.7% And like I said when I sheild tank, I use a sheild, and I stand around in mostly Defensive stance. I may use charge to run into battle, but i'll use any rage gained then switch over to hold the aggro until whatever it is is dead. When I tank its really just so someone else will generally hurt things for me. In higher instnaces where raids are common they don't want their main tank to do damage. They want him to stand there and take the hits so they don't. The reason I started to focus on some of the lower specs of the protection tree are because when someone wants a warrior, what they generally want is a tank. Not a damage spec warrior (unless noted otherwise. I aways ask. "Do you want me tanking or doing damage?" "So and so is already the tank we need an assistant"). Its not easy conforming to what others comand, but I guess it is the best way to get invited on raids to high instances a lot.

edit:

quote:
Mr. Parcelan had this to say about pies:
What a sheep he is.

Well If you'd stop polymorphing him!

DrPaintThinner fucked around with this message on 04-11-2005 at 07:37 AM.

roit, less bash 'is noggin
Blackened
posted 04-11-2005 08:33:13 AM
quote:
DrPaintThinner obviously shouldn't have said:
The Crits are what I based my strategy on.
You mind telling me what your master genius "strategy" is, and exactly how crits help you execute it?

Please put emphasis on the parts where, if you did not lack such a high crit rate, your entire strategy would fall to pieces.


Although my distaste for you as a human being is brobdingnagian,
what I'm about to do isn't personal.
Taylen
Pancake
posted 04-11-2005 08:47:53 AM
I currently use the following talents on my warrior.

CrueltyRank 5
-Fury Total:5

Protection Mastery
-Shield SpecializationRank 5
-Improved BloodrageRank 1
-ToughnessRank 5
-Improved RevengeRank 3
-DefianceRank 5
-Improved TauntRank 2
-Concussion BlowRank 1
Protection Total:22

Arms Mastery
-Improved Heroic StrikeRank 3
-DeflectionRank 5
-Improved RendRank 3
-Improved ChargeRank 2
-Tactical MasteryRank 5
-Improved OverpowerRank 2
-Anger ManagementRank 1
-Deep WoundsRank 2
-Sweeping StrikesRank 1
Arms Total:24

Total
Total Points Spent:51
Level Required:60

I know it's not the optimal build but it has worked well for me for awhile. Changed a few things around recently to talents I felt worked out better in the long run.

Taylen fucked around with this message on 04-11-2005 at 08:50 AM.

"When correctly viewed, everything is lewd." - Tom Lehrer.
Sadomasochism: It's Fun!
Taylen Ashenbow
Rangers never run we mearly stratigically retreat.
Thats not a train thats a pull, my trains are always much bigger.
DrPaintThinner
Anti-Semite
posted 04-11-2005 12:00:46 PM
quote:
Blackened had this to say about Knight Rider:
You mind telling me what your master genius "strategy" is, and exactly how crits help you execute it?

Please put emphasis on the parts where, if you did not lack such a high crit rate, your entire strategy would fall to pieces.


I crit often to keep Deep wounds on my target constnatly. Not to mentinon Imapale adds even more damage on critical strikes. High crits, a better constant stream of damage. And it really does fall to pieces without crits. I find my self hoping for them if im low on health. Which is good cause they come often.

And no where did I say "master genius straregy." Why is any persons opinion less valid than any other? Plus you asked me why I had it speced like I did. Now I've told you. Why I entertain your request is beyond me. The least you could treat me with is a small amount of dignity. But that may be asking a bit much from the WoW master! Who I should be honored to have this little chat with.

Average hit is about 200, average crit is about 300, heroic strike is about 400 and crit is about 600 and a fully charged crit on execute hits for about 3000. Not to mention rend and deep wounds that generate bout 65 damage every 2-3 sec? This is at level 60. I hit every 2.1 seconds.

On a side note, did you know moves like sweeping strikes (I think this applies to wrecklessness too) don't work in other stances? And that changing stances after use only cancels its effect. Its not really relevent, just felt like sharing. (prevents sweeping strikes and whirlwind from being used in conjunction)

DrPaintThinner fucked around with this message on 04-11-2005 at 12:06 PM.

roit, less bash 'is noggin
Kael
Whistlepig
posted 04-11-2005 07:54:05 PM
Is there a better place to get patches? Or should I just stick to the Blizzard Downloader for my first patch?
Kait
has made another completely pointless and off-topic post that nobody cares about
posted 04-11-2005 08:09:12 PM
quote:
DrPaintThinner wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
The Crits are what I based my strategy on.


If you want to do crits, be a rogue. Geez

I wish sometimes that the rogue class was a bit more like the thief second-tier class in Ragnarok Online...then you could specialise it more. I made an assassin, sheer dodge, speed, and crit ability. She was beautiful! But, her recreation in WoW is only a shell of what she once was...

"A black cat dropped soundlessly from a high wall, like a spoonful of dark treacle and melted under the gate."
-Elizabeth Lemarchand
Kait
has made another completely pointless and off-topic post that nobody cares about
posted 04-11-2005 08:11:21 PM
quote:
How.... DrPaintThinner.... uughhhhhh:
I crit often to keep Deep wounds on my target constnatly. Not to mentinon Imapale adds even more damage on critical strikes. High crits, a better constant stream of damage. And it really does fall to pieces without crits. I find my self hoping for them if im low on health. Which is good cause they come often.

And no where did I say "master genius straregy." Why is any persons opinion less valid than any other? Plus you asked me why I had it speced like I did. Now I've told you. Why I entertain your request is beyond me. The least you could treat me with is a small amount of dignity. But that may be asking a bit much from the WoW master! Who I should be honored to have this little chat with.

Average hit is about 200, average crit is about 300, heroic strike is about 400 and crit is about 600 and a fully charged crit on execute hits for about 3000. Not to mention rend and deep wounds that generate bout 65 damage every 2-3 sec? This is at level 60. I hit every 2.1 seconds.

On a side note, did you know moves like sweeping strikes (I think this applies to wrecklessness too) don't work in other stances? And that changing stances after use only cancels its effect. Its not really relevent, just felt like sharing. (prevents sweeping strikes and whirlwind from being used in conjunction)


This post is ripe with typos. Were you drunk when you wrote it? Kidding, kidding...

"A black cat dropped soundlessly from a high wall, like a spoonful of dark treacle and melted under the gate."
-Elizabeth Lemarchand
Kait
has made another completely pointless and off-topic post that nobody cares about
posted 04-11-2005 08:14:41 PM
quote:
Alaan had this to say about the Spice Girls:
They need to introduce the giant totems the Taurens used in WC3 as weapons in WoW.

That would be awesome!!

I mean, in Halo 2 they gave you the swords, so why not?

"A black cat dropped soundlessly from a high wall, like a spoonful of dark treacle and melted under the gate."
-Elizabeth Lemarchand
Kait
has made another completely pointless and off-topic post that nobody cares about
posted 04-11-2005 08:22:13 PM
quote:
Mod wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Rogues are a good class but we do have some problems, mainly the fact that anything with an AE will turn us into a horrible mana sponge and to a lesser extent the reliance on AE damage in some instances which somewhat devalues us as main damage dealers compared to mages.

Generally in groups, I just try to keep the baddies' attention on me, else the magic-users go down like dragonflies. But I don't group often, really I just like soloing. Yes, you heard me, I LIKE soloing! But anyway, I probably need to put more into resistence, I jack Agi up as far as I can which is great for dodging physical blows, but magic shreds me to pieces. If I don't manage to Kick the magic user first, that is

I wish you didn't have to Kick in the middle of a spell to enable that ten seconds of silence effect. Sometimes I mess up and Kick between spells, and then I get screwed...

"A black cat dropped soundlessly from a high wall, like a spoonful of dark treacle and melted under the gate."
-Elizabeth Lemarchand
Kait
has made another completely pointless and off-topic post that nobody cares about
posted 04-11-2005 08:24:21 PM
quote:
Batty had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Not to mention in every post of his he's called it the furry tree, when fury has a single r. One r. Not two. The fury tree does not make you grow fur.

Yeah...that confused me. I've never played a warrior, so I thought the tree was actualy furry. Thanks for eliminating my confusion

Edit: Oops, sorry...I didn't realize I was replying so many times to one thread. It's hard to be cognizant while posting at work...

Kait fucked around with this message on 04-11-2005 at 08:36 PM.

"A black cat dropped soundlessly from a high wall, like a spoonful of dark treacle and melted under the gate."
-Elizabeth Lemarchand
Ruvyen
Cartoon Broccoli Boy
posted 04-11-2005 09:27:38 PM
quote:
This one time, at DrPaintThinner camp:
The Crits are what I based my strategy on. I always use axes. Including when I tank, My one hand wep is an ax. Right now If im wearing the right gear I can crit about 20%. If im not I can crit about 17.7% And like I said when I sheild tank, I use a sheild, and I stand around in mostly Defensive stance. I may use charge to run into battle, but i'll use any rage gained then switch over to hold the aggro until whatever it is is dead. When I tank its really just so someone else will generally hurt things for me. In higher instnaces where raids are common they don't want their main tank to do damage. They want him to stand there and take the hits so they don't. The reason I started to focus on some of the lower specs of the protection tree are because when someone wants a warrior, what they generally want is a tank. Not a damage spec warrior (unless noted otherwise. I aways ask. "Do you want me tanking or doing damage?" "So and so is already the tank we need an assistant"). Its not easy conforming to what others comand, but I guess it is the best way to get invited on raids to high instances a lot.

edit:
Well If you'd stop polymorphing him!


Okie-day, a few things here...

-You're contradicting yourself. In the first sentence, you tell us your warrior is based on crits. That's cool. But then you later go on to say that the warrior's damage doesn't matter, and that all people want out of him is a tank. So, why'd you base your warrior around crits and (gasp) damage if it doesn't matter? Why not go full protection so you can be the awesome tank that everyone wants on a raid?

-If you always use axes, you're stupid. What happens if you find a sword that's better than your axe? You just throw it away? Warriors don't master a weapon, as in only one kind of weapon. Warriors master all weapons. Swords, axes, hammers, maces, if it's better than what you currently have, USE IT!!

-When you shield tank, you use a shield? Thanks for clearing that up, man. Here I thought you just used your fists, and tried to be like an armoured Monk. Seriously, this is like saying that most of the US's imports come from other countries.

-Stances were never meant to be whored. Why would you go all crit-happy if you were just gonna stay in Defensive Stance, which would limit your ability to deal damage? Defensive stances does have its advantages, and is good for a maintank warrior, but even then, you'll want to switch to another stance occasionally. Use all of your abilities instead of focusing on a few, or you leave some very exploitable weak points way open.

-"In higher instnaces where raids are common they don't want their main tank to do damage." You, sir, are an idiot. OF COURSE they want their main tank dealing damage! They don't want him to sacrifice very much defense for it, but you should still try to deal as much damage as you can! Besides, correct me if I'm wrong here, but damage helps you hold aggro, and thus, TANK!! Ay yi yi... Just stop playing a warrior. The class really isn't for you if that's how you play it.

Thief: "I have come to a realisation. Dragons are not real in a general sense, but they may exist in certain specific cases."
Fighter: "Like how quantum mechanics describes how subatomic particles can spontaneously pop into existence at random!"
Thief: "No, that's stupid and stop making up words."
--8-Bit Theater
Kael
Whistlepig
posted 04-11-2005 09:41:45 PM
Ruvyen just pwned someone. Ruvyen! D:

That's like Addy lashing out with full power of the Dark Side D:

DrPaintThinner
Anti-Semite
posted 04-11-2005 09:44:45 PM
quote:
Nobody really understood why Kait wrote:
This post is ripe with typos. Were you drunk when you wrote it? Kidding, kidding...

I wasn't drunk. Just very very very tired.

roit, less bash 'is noggin
Ruvyen
Cartoon Broccoli Boy
posted 04-11-2005 10:08:23 PM
quote:
Kael said this about your mom:
Ruvyen just pwned someone. Ruvyen! D:

That's like Addy lashing out with full power of the Dark Side D:


I really like warriors in all RPGs, and I HATE HATE HATE when people absolutely maul the class. Yes, the warrior is one tough bastard. No, that does not mean they're simply a living wall.

WoW is one of the few MMORPGs to actually get warriors RIGHT--Yes, they can last a damn long time in a melee, even longer if you invest wisely in Protection spec, but you're still gonna want to deal lots of damage and kill things quickly. After all, the more damage you deal to an enemy, the less damage the enemy deals to you and your group. Because, y'know, dead enemies deal no damage. Plus, warriors in WoW get plenty of skills, so they're not just an auto-attack bot (Can you say EQ?). The ability to simply switch stances on-the-fly to adapt to changing battlefield conditions not only makes a lot of sense, but it really helps in all situations. I really hate when people in WoW simply make a warrior to be the standard MMORPG tank bot, because "omfg its a warrior ur spost 2 tank cuz tahts how it was in EQ". Well, I've got news for ya, Timmy... THIS AIN'T EQ!!

DrPaint, you have a very odd strategy. On the one hand, you're going for large damage by way of lots of crits. This is a good warrior strategy, although you really should focus more on your sustained damage instead of risking it on crits. Even with a one-in-five chance to crit. However, then you turn around and go all tankly, taking stuff from Protection spec. Why? If you want damage, then focus your entire talent tree on it! If you want sheer toughness, I'd suggest playing a Paladin instead. They won't do as much damage, but they'll last a LOT longer in combat. You're either damage-based or defense-based... Pick one. If you do half-and-half, the two halves cancel each other out, and you're left with a crap warrior who can neither tank nor deal damage.

Thief: "I have come to a realisation. Dragons are not real in a general sense, but they may exist in certain specific cases."
Fighter: "Like how quantum mechanics describes how subatomic particles can spontaneously pop into existence at random!"
Thief: "No, that's stupid and stop making up words."
--8-Bit Theater
Mr. Parcelan
posted 04-11-2005 10:14:49 PM
I hate to break it to you, but a Warrior's role is to tank. Damage dealing is for PvP and soloing or for being off-tank. When you're in a group, you do piss poor damage and love it, so long as you hold that aggro.
Kait
has made another completely pointless and off-topic post that nobody cares about
posted 04-11-2005 10:28:15 PM
quote:
Ruvyen stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
I really like warriors in all RPGs, and I HATE HATE HATE when people absolutely maul the class. Yes, the warrior is one tough bastard. No, that does not mean they're simply a living wall.

WoW is one of the few MMORPGs to actually get warriors RIGHT--Yes, they can last a damn long time in a melee, even longer if you invest wisely in Protection spec, but you're still gonna want to deal lots of damage and kill things quickly. After all, the more damage you deal to an enemy, the less damage the enemy deals to you and your group. Because, y'know, dead enemies deal no damage. Plus, warriors in WoW get plenty of skills, so they're not just an auto-attack bot (Can you say EQ?). The ability to simply switch stances on-the-fly to adapt to changing battlefield conditions not only makes a lot of sense, but it really helps in all situations. I really hate when people in WoW simply make a warrior to be the standard MMORPG tank bot, because "omfg its a warrior ur spost 2 tank cuz tahts how it was in EQ". Well, I've got news for ya, Timmy... THIS AIN'T EQ!!

DrPaint, you have a very odd strategy. On the one hand, you're going for large damage by way of lots of crits. This is a good warrior strategy, although you really should focus more on your sustained damage instead of risking it on crits. Even with a one-in-five chance to crit. However, then you turn around and go all tankly, taking stuff from Protection spec. Why? If you want damage, then focus your entire talent tree on it! If you want sheer toughness, I'd suggest playing a Paladin instead. They won't do as much damage, but they'll last a LOT longer in combat. You're either damage-based or defense-based... Pick one. If you do half-and-half, the two halves cancel each other out, and you're left with a crap warrior who can neither tank nor deal damage.


Not a Warrior, but I am reminded of my first attempt at making the most awesome assassin evar!11!!1!. I had such high agi but not enough dex (in RO, Agi = dodge and Dex = chance to hit) that, sure, the baddy never landed a hit on me....but I almost never landed a hit on him, either. Those battles would last upwards from an hour. After a while, I got so sick of it, I deleted the character and started brand new. You don't really have the same problem in WoW as your dodge and chance to hit are based off the same attribute, but it can still be a problem, considering how you build your talent tree.

Not that I know anything about talent trees...I fill mine up based on whims (please don't kill me! Maybe I'm not the most effective rogue on the block, but I have fun, and that's what counts, right.

"A black cat dropped soundlessly from a high wall, like a spoonful of dark treacle and melted under the gate."
-Elizabeth Lemarchand
Blackened
posted 04-11-2005 10:31:25 PM
quote:
DrPaintThinner had this to say about pies:
I crit often to keep Deep wounds on my target constnatly.
Funny you mention Deep Wound... Because if you ever find yourself raiding places like MC, or even Onyxia with a guild that has even the slightest idea of strategy, they're going to make you get rid of that talent. You and all the other warriors.
quote:
Not to mentinon Imapale adds even more damage on critical strikes.
And so Impale goes too. Sucks, doesn't it? Sorry, but with only 8 debuff slots to work with, Deep Wound is simply in the way. Of course, I didn't expect you to realize the rather high impact a single talent could have on the end game... Or even in places like Scholo/Strat/UBRS. So much for that PvE friendly build.
quote:
High crits, a better constant stream of damage.
Relying on critical hits in an average WoW battle (aka a short period of time) actually do the opposite of this, spiking/lowering your damage instead of leaving a consistant number.
quote:
And it really does fall to pieces without crits.
And why is this? Or are you just saying that to reassure yourself that if you didn't have a 10% better chance to crit on something, you can't tank?
quote:
Why is any persons opinion less valid than any other?
I'd love* to sit here and get all theoretical about how all opinions are not equal, but some Debate-addict like Za/Sage/Jens/Mara can word it much more eloquently and efficently than I ever will, and with proper argument structure or whatever else is so important to them like cornflakes with honey. But all I can simply say is thus: Your opinions and thoughts are not as valid as other's because you're not completely understanding of the mechanics that we are discussing. Okay.

*This is a lie, I hate that shit.

Edit2 - Kait, I'd be so awesome if you condensed your replies all to one post. Thanks.

Blackened fucked around with this message on 04-11-2005 at 10:33 PM.


Although my distaste for you as a human being is brobdingnagian,
what I'm about to do isn't personal.
DrPaintThinner
Anti-Semite
posted 04-11-2005 10:54:49 PM
quote:
Ruvyen had this to say about Knight Rider:
Okie-day, a few things here...

-You're contradicting yourself. In the first sentence, you tell us your warrior is based on crits. That's cool. But then you later go on to say that the warrior's damage doesn't matter, and that all people want out of him is a tank. So, why'd you base your warrior around crits and (gasp) damage if it doesn't matter? Why not go full protection so you can be the awesome tank that everyone wants on a raid?

-If you always use axes, you're stupid. What happens if you find a sword that's better than your axe? You just throw it away? Warriors don't master a weapon, as in only one kind of weapon. Warriors master all weapons. Swords, axes, hammers, maces, if it's better than what you currently have, USE IT!!

-When you shield tank, you use a shield? Thanks for clearing that up, man. Here I thought you just used your fists, and tried to be like an armoured Monk. Seriously, this is like saying that most of the US's imports come from other countries.

-Stances were never meant to be whored. Why would you go all crit-happy if you were just gonna stay in Defensive Stance, which would limit your ability to deal damage? Defensive stances does have its advantages, and is good for a maintank warrior, but even then, you'll want to switch to another stance occasionally. Use all of your abilities instead of focusing on a few, or you leave some very exploitable weak points way open.

-"In higher instnaces where raids are common they don't want their main tank to do damage." You, sir, are an idiot. OF COURSE they want their main tank dealing damage! They don't want him to sacrifice very much defense for it, but you should still try to deal as much damage as you can! Besides, correct me if I'm wrong here, but damage helps you hold aggro, and thus, TANK!! Ay yi yi... Just stop playing a warrior. The class really isn't for you if that's how you play it.


This sounds like you've never really played a warrior. Or at least had to deal with the fact that everyone wants you to specialize a certain way. So I'll map it out for you.

People don't want damage warriors as tanks (they are cool if the main tank can keep it all together and they are just tagging along but a mage will ALWAYS do more damage). I would respec right now to a defensive/arms warrior, if I thought all I would ever do anymore was tank. I don't though. I mostly solo. I pretty much soloed myself to 60. The point I was making is that I can effectivly tank better than a person who went fury/arms. Arms/fury is ok for tanking as long as they bought all the skills for defensive stnace as well.

Crits are LESS important when I tank (this seemed to be the part that you kept hanging up on)(also since I speced right when using one handed axes my crits go from 17.7% (2h ax) to 17.3% not much of a difference). My job is to connect with hits, get rage, use that rage effectivly to hold multiple targets. When I solo who am I tanking for? Me? I don't need half the skills in defensive stance that aren't already in battle stance. Its slow and it takes forever to kill anything.

Battle stance is a good all around stance. It doesn't have the specialization of the other two stances but it provides enough flexibility.

I love that "What happens if you find a sword that's better than your axe? You just throw it away?" And? What would happen? I would use it. If it was really good I'd respec it. You know why I don't worry about that? Because it never happens! I'm currently wearing the Best type of uncommon ax. If I found a blue sword that had a great dps and still pretty fast I might respec. But if its not that big of an improvement its not worth the gold to ugrade the weapon, respec my skills, and repurchse other skills. Right now I'm tickled pink with my razor ax of power. If a twig of the world tree came a long I may use it for a while. But so what?

And your logic of mastering all the wepons is the exact opposite of what everyone else has told me (in this thread). They keep saying "drop your masteries, learn tactical mastery and switch stances often"

And that sujestion is silly. Why should I spend 5 points on something I use rarely use for something I use constantly. My other stances are useless to me. They have no use when I fight (except whirlwind, thats just a nice thing to have for mowing down lower levels). Beacuse you make use of it doesn't mean its right for me. Which I now realize is why I SHOULD keep my mouth shut. Because everyone should have their own way of fighting. If everyone was the same damn warrior spec it would be boring and predictable (this was the convincing point for me to stop posting on this particular topic).

And anger management is not worth having (for me at least). The last hit I almost always make is an execution. There is no rage left to save, or switch to another stance with. Thats fine though! There are very few situations where I would say OH FUCK! I NEED TO USE MY _____ stance.

And its not the damage that holds agro, its the moves. Sunder armor, taunt, challenging shout, rend, and mocking blow all hold agro the best. Three of those don't even do damage. One of them only does slight damage, and the last one does damage over time.

I had a long passage about how specialization was better than generalization but I really don't care to influence any of you so I'll leave it out.

My roomate suggested to me that I may want to consider what you are all saying when battle grounds comes out and I start fighting more pvp. And I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.


To put this all in perspective I have a story from when I was level 52. I pretty much had a one tracked mind. I infact was going to spec as you sujested for my last few skills. Someone messeged me asking me if I was a warrior and if I wanted to do brd. I said "Sure! I'm a warrior!." I got there and they said, "hey where is your sheild?" To which I replied, "Sheild? I'm a damage warrior." He said "Oh... well I wanted a tank. I guess you can try though." We got to the first rather large mob. They over ran me, killed the shaman, then the priest, then the warlock, then me, and the rogue stealthed away. There was a short silence followed by "DAMN THAT SUCKED!! Were you even in defensive stance??" I said "Yah! I was holding the best I could! But like I said im a damage warrior." He waited a moment and said "Well next time I guess I should ask for a tank. I know a level 60 sheild spec we can invite!" I left the group and passed the level sixty as I made my way to the wyrven master.

This made it clear in my mind that "One size does not fit all" and a warrior with no sheild and no effective way to use it will most likely fail.

This is how I play now. When I solo I use 2h axes, criting often for high damage. And when I tank for groups or raids I use defensive and a little bit of battle.

roit, less bash 'is noggin
Blackened
posted 04-11-2005 11:04:20 PM
quote:
There was much rejoicing when DrPaintThinner said this:
This made it clear in my mind that "One size does not fit all" and a warrior with no sheild and no effective way to use it will most likely fail.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I'm done here. Guys... No shield = you can't tank. True story.

I also just looked at your WoW Ranking profile. You're pretty clueless in how to gear your Warrior, as well. But that's fine - if you're enjoying your Warrior... Well. Good for you. Just keep your Warrior advice to the basics of the class for now, or at least until you have a better grasp of the more complicated mechanics.


Although my distaste for you as a human being is brobdingnagian,
what I'm about to do isn't personal.
Godzilla
Pancake
posted 04-12-2005 01:09:25 PM
Personally I prefer Hunters. Yea they are a bit underpowered but with a decent pet as a tank they seem to work real well in PVE and PVP. I'm on Bloodscalp a transfer from Shattered Hand. Rouges piss me off at least the ones on the opposing faction but we need em to unlock them damn boxes. I wish other classes could learn how to unlock boxes. Also is there anyways you can learn new languges in the game or are you stuck with the basic ones you get from the get go?
Sean
posted 04-12-2005 01:19:03 PM
quote:
Mr. Blackened? That sounds too much like Mr. Shit.
I also just looked at your WoW Ranking profile.

It keeps timing out for me. Tell me, please tell me, that he simply has his terms mixed up and is not using a green axe at level 60. Or is shieldless.
Or, for whatever reason, has only managed an 18% crit chance on a full crit-based build.

Here we go, it finally loaded.. BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Sean fucked around with this message on 04-12-2005 at 01:21 PM.

A Kansas City Shuffle is when everybody looks right, you go left.

It's not something people hear about.

Nae
Fun with Chocolate
posted 04-12-2005 02:04:35 PM
quote:
Godzilla had this to say about the Spice Girls:
...is there anyways you can learn new languges in the game or are you stuck with the basic ones you get from the get go?


There isn't a way to learn other languages at this time.

Katrinity
Cookie Goddess!
posted 04-12-2005 02:07:15 PM
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Godzilla said:
I wish other classes could learn how to unlock boxes.

You can. Just buy Keys from Blacksmiths. I can make up to Truesilver Keys right now. Lets you open the various Strongboxes.

Cookie Goddess Supreme
Furry Kitsune of Power!
Pouncer of the 12th degree!
"Cxularath ftombn gonoragh pv'iornw hqxoxon targh!"
Translated: "Sell your soul for a cookie?"
Nae
Fun with Chocolate
posted 04-12-2005 02:11:22 PM
quote:
Katrinity spewed forth this undeniable truth:
You can. Just buy Keys from Blacksmiths. I can make up to Truesilver Keys right now. Lets you open the various Strongboxes.

My understanding is that only smiths can use the keys.

Katrinity
Cookie Goddess!
posted 04-12-2005 02:23:08 PM
quote:
Nae had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
My understanding is that only smiths can use the keys.

Maybe. Might require some skill in it like putting on spurs and such.

Cookie Goddess Supreme
Furry Kitsune of Power!
Pouncer of the 12th degree!
"Cxularath ftombn gonoragh pv'iornw hqxoxon targh!"
Translated: "Sell your soul for a cookie?"
Mod
Pancake
posted 04-12-2005 02:35:19 PM
quote:
Kait had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Generally in groups, I just try to keep the baddies' attention on me, else the magic-users go down like dragonflies. But I don't group often, really I just like soloing. Yes, you heard me, I LIKE soloing! But anyway, I probably need to put more into resistence, I jack Agi up as far as I can which is great for dodging physical blows, but magic shreds me to pieces. If I don't manage to Kick the magic user first, that is

I wish you didn't have to Kick in the middle of a spell to enable that ten seconds of silence effect. Sometimes I mess up and Kick between spells, and then I get screwed...


At your level this works but I'd try really try to kick that habit and get into the habit of using feint to keep the mob on the tank. At around 40 you really fall behind other classes in the migitation department, at 60 I can't tank a mob for any amount of time even in easier dungeons, in places like Scholomance and BRD I need chain heals to survive against even xp mobs(I'm a dagger rogue though, combat builds have it somewhat better).

I have my kick bound to my 'e'-key, it's very handy to hit as soon as you see something start and cast, you can get crazy xp from caster mobs as a backstab rogue using kick and gouge.

Life... is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for. Unreturnable, because all you get back is another box of chocolates. You're stuck with this undefinable whipped-mint crap that you mindlessly wolf down when there's nothing else left to eat. Sure, once in a while, there's a peanut butter cup, or an English toffee. But they're gone too fast, the taste is fleeting. So you end up with nothing but broken bits, filled with hardened jelly and teeth-crunching nuts, and if you're desperate enough to eat those, all you've got left is a... is an empty box... filled with useless, brown paper wrappers.
Mod
Pancake
posted 04-12-2005 02:39:35 PM
quote:
Sean had this to say about John Romero:
It keeps timing out for me. Tell me, please tell me, that he simply has his terms mixed up and is not using a green axe at level 60. Or is shieldless.
Or, for whatever reason, has only managed an 18% crit chance on a full crit-based build.

Here we go, it finally loaded.. BAHAHAHAHAHA!


Hey there mister you hurt the feelings of my green dagger of the monkey + thrash blade combo there.

Life... is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for. Unreturnable, because all you get back is another box of chocolates. You're stuck with this undefinable whipped-mint crap that you mindlessly wolf down when there's nothing else left to eat. Sure, once in a while, there's a peanut butter cup, or an English toffee. But they're gone too fast, the taste is fleeting. So you end up with nothing but broken bits, filled with hardened jelly and teeth-crunching nuts, and if you're desperate enough to eat those, all you've got left is a... is an empty box... filled with useless, brown paper wrappers.
Sean
posted 04-12-2005 02:41:11 PM
quote:
Mod didn't get much USO. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat. He had only two ways home: death, or victory.
Hey there mister you hurt the feelings of my green dagger of the monkey + thrash blade combo there.

But I'm sure there's a good reason you still have a green weapon. Because you're not incredibly incompetent.

A Kansas City Shuffle is when everybody looks right, you go left.

It's not something people hear about.

DrPaintThinner
Anti-Semite
posted 04-12-2005 04:56:55 PM
quote:
Nae had this to say about John Romero:
There isn't a way to learn other languages at this time.

There is a trinket that lets you turn yourself into a member of the opposing faction. And you can speak common (and I suppose orcish if your alliance side) when your in your disguise. (gnomes turn into tauren)

roit, less bash 'is noggin
Addy
posted 04-12-2005 04:58:36 PM
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Mod said:
Hey there mister you hurt the feelings of my green dagger of the monkey + thrash blade combo there.

wtf I thought you were a dagger rogue!

Mod
Pancake
posted 04-12-2005 05:11:00 PM
quote:
Addy had this to say about Optimus Prime:
wtf I thought you were a dagger rogue!

Actually the technical term is probably 'auction house rogue'.

Life... is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for. Unreturnable, because all you get back is another box of chocolates. You're stuck with this undefinable whipped-mint crap that you mindlessly wolf down when there's nothing else left to eat. Sure, once in a while, there's a peanut butter cup, or an English toffee. But they're gone too fast, the taste is fleeting. So you end up with nothing but broken bits, filled with hardened jelly and teeth-crunching nuts, and if you're desperate enough to eat those, all you've got left is a... is an empty box... filled with useless, brown paper wrappers.
Addy
posted 04-12-2005 05:26:07 PM
quote:
Mod had this to say about dark elf butts:
Actually the technical term is probably 'auction house rogue'.

I see.

Mod
Pancake
posted 04-12-2005 06:11:25 PM
quote:
Addy's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
I see.

(I've been busy with a bunch of other games, the will to play WoW somewhat left me, never got to raid anything bigger than BRD)

Life... is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for. Unreturnable, because all you get back is another box of chocolates. You're stuck with this undefinable whipped-mint crap that you mindlessly wolf down when there's nothing else left to eat. Sure, once in a while, there's a peanut butter cup, or an English toffee. But they're gone too fast, the taste is fleeting. So you end up with nothing but broken bits, filled with hardened jelly and teeth-crunching nuts, and if you're desperate enough to eat those, all you've got left is a... is an empty box... filled with useless, brown paper wrappers.
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