Discuss PVP (in which I can see them being good, although I can see how each class can beat them), high-end, and group usefulness.
Also, no Paladin discussion allowed.
Also, melee hunters suck, I know that. I'm running a Marksmanship NE hunter on Sargeras (Lenlalron), and I was wondering if he'll be good or just a walking target when it comes time to really PvP.
Thanks!
Sounds like a good deal to me.
In group PvP, Mana Stinging everything that moves, and using hunters mark to direct the flow of battle, should be amazing.
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Reynar had this to say about pies:
Hunters are good, very good.
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Error had this to say about dark elf butts:
Hunters are really only good at pvp if they see someone coming or engage first. If not, then usually they'll die.
That is true for every class but paladins.
quote:Let it go.
Naimah had this to say about Optimus Prime:
That is true for every class but paladins.
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This one time, at Naimah camp:
That is true for every class but paladins.
"A Paladin is a son of a bitch!"
"A Paladin is the father of every kid in this town!"
"A Paladin once showed me a video of him making love to my wife, and it was the most beautiful thing I ever saw!"
"One time I was with a Paladin in the back of a pickup truck, along with a live deer. He goes up to the deer and says, 'I'm a Paladin! SAY IT!' Then he manipulates the deer's lips in such a way as to make it say, 'Paladin' ... It wasn't exactly like it, but it was pretty good for a deer!'"
"He'd eat a homeless person if you dared him!"
"His poop is used as currency in Argentina."
"He sweats Gatorade"
"He once breast-fed a flamingo back to health."
"He hated Mexicans! And he was half Mexican! .......And he hated irony!"
"I once saw him scissor kick Angela Landsbury."
"He sheds his skin once a year."
"He makes brooms somewhere in Georgia."
"He did 3 tours in 'Nam...... I was in Corpus Christi on business a month ago. I had this eight foot tall Asian waiter, which made me curious. I asked him his name. Sure enough it's Ho Tran Paladin!"
"I once saw him eat a whole live chicken."
"His favorite movie is 'One on One' with Robby Benson."
"He sleeps eight hours a night! ........ well, he was pretty normal when it came to that."
"A Paladin is a two ton man-mountain who could palm a medicine ball!"
"Did I ever tell you about the time a Paladin took me out to go get a drink with him? We go off looking for a bar and we can't find one. Finally he takes me to a vacant lot and says, 'Here we are.' We sat there for a year and a half and sure enough someone constructs a bar around us. The day they opened we ordered a shot, drank it, and then burned the place to the ground. The Paladin yelled over the roar of the flames, 'Always leave things the way you found em!'"
"This Paladin had a four day heart attack...a day for each chamber. At the autopsy, they said his heart looked like a basketball filled with riccotta cheese."
"He once punched a hole in a cow just to see who was coming up the road."
"He taught me how to make love to a woman, and how to scold a child."
"They found $60 in change in his stomach."
"He did all the makeup on the 'Planet of the Apes' movie."
"He grew a 3rd arm and kept it in a vault."
"A Paladin drank a full glass of liquid LSD with his eggs. Then he slept for 8 months straight. When he woke he rubbed his eyes and said, 'All in all, I prefer gin.'"
"They say Gene Roddenbery got the idea for Star Trek from listening to a Paladin talk in his sleep."
"He date raped David Bowie."
"He once inhaled a seagull."
"The Pope told him it was ok to have a mistress."
"It was the sight of a Paladin's naked body that drove Brian Wilson insane."
"He once had sex with a cigarette machine."
"He killed Wolfman Jack with a trident."
"He uses the Shroud of Turin as a golf towel."
"He once ate the Bible while water skiing."
"He drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls."
"He sired a baseball team.. an orchestra if you count the bastards!"
"You know, he would shoot whiskey into his neck with a syringe!"
"He has dandruff the size of mice!"
"He jogged with a fridge on his back!"
"Paladins are 10 foot monster who slept with all our wives! And punched us all in the face! And we loved him for it!"
"He is a Paladin! ....... I'm drunk."
"He's a ten foot tall beastman who showers in vodka and feeds his baby shrimp scampi."
"He orchestrated the merger between Unicef and Smith & Wessen."
"He went public with his own buttocks and made $7 million."
"Did I ever tell you about the time a Paladin went hunting? He decides he's going to hunt down all four of the Banana Splits. He stalks and kills every one of them with a machette. They all begged for their lives...except Fleagle."
"We once had a bachelor party for a Paladin. He ate the entire cake before we could tell him there was a stripper in it."
"A Paladin once hosted the Grammys and gave every award to Corey Hart."
"He has a toenail on the end of his penis."
"A Paladin once got his wife pregnant and gave birth to a delicious 16 ounce steak. The after birth was sauteed mushrooms."
"The Paladin's family crest is a picture of a baracudda eating Neil Armstrong."
"A Paladin ranked 18th in the AP College Football Pool."
"Did I ever tell you about the time a Paladin was in a production of, 'The King & I?' On opening night, he chloroforms the entire cast and slowly eats them in front of the audience for two hours. The production got pretty good reviews."
"He breastfeeds John Madden."
"A Paladin named the group Sha-Na-Na. They did NOT want to be called that."
"If you drop a phonograph needle on a Paladin's nipple, it plays the Beach Boys' 'Pet Sounds.'"
"They use a Paladin's foreskin as a tarp when it rains at Yankee stadium."
"A Paladin directed that commercial where the women play basketball in high heels."
"All the 'Yes' album covers are Paladin family photos."
"He wears a live rattlesnake as a condom."
"Did I ever tell you about the time he taught his son how to drive? He did it by entering him in the Indy 500. The kid wrecked and died. He said it would've happened sometime."
"A Paladin's semen can form into a liquid human - like the guy from 'Terminator 2'"
"Paladins still believes in Santa Claus, and he wants to put him in porno films."
"He thinks then iron man is gay."
"He framed Roger Rabbit."
"The character of Johnny Appleseed was based on a Paladin - except for the apple tree planting and not raping men."
"He gave a handjob to a manta ray."
Paladins are mammals.
Paladins fight ALL the time.
The purpose of the Paladin is to flip out and kill people.
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How.... Error.... uughhhhhh:
Hunters are really only good at pvp if they see someone coming or engage first. If not, then usually they'll die.
This is not true.
Hunters are good. Yes, we have some shortcomings, and CERTAIN situations can become very very bad for us, but in others we excell.
1 on 1 post 35ish, your only real conflict will be with Warriors. There are easy ways around everything else. Priest can give you trouble, not because they are hard to kill, or anything else, but because they are a pain in the ass cause they run and shield and run and shield, and it just takes forever. It's just more of an annoyance than a difficulty. Druids... Druids are fun to PvP, especially if they decide to change forms on you to get a leg up by tanking as a Bear or Roguing it up as a Cat, cause... You can Scare beast a Druid in animal form. Funniest thing ever, you can also track them by beasts, Track Hidden, and Humanoids, so they can never hide, ever, and thier Root tactic doesn't work, because if you're smart you dont melee anyway and especially not a druid. Rogues... Rogues are only difficult if they get the drop on you.. Ever. If you pick on out of a crowd, they are toast very fast. Casters? Aside from the initial Poly, you will make short work of them. Warlocks will give you all kinds of hell, but... You will still more than likely beat them. Shamans are the only other tricky class besides a Warrior to take down one on one solo.
So whats the downside? A lot of our abilities are broken, underpowered, or make no sense. And a Hunter, like a Rogue, is a finesse class. One slip up and you are toast. Regardless of what you are facing.
In group PvP... Unless we are picked off first, which is often the case with very good reason, we are undeniably very beneficial. Volley, Multi-Shot, Explosive Traps, (Especially assuming you have specced these things out), plus sustainable ranged DPS, make for a very nasty situation for the opposing party.
Yes, Hunters have some issues, but they were of course supposedly the last added class, and yes some things need to be fixed and tweaked, but if done well we can hold our own for the most part. With lots of practice, and learning a few tricks here and there, you can be very good.
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Verily, Faelynn LeAndris doth proclaim:
This is not true. Rogues... If you pick on out of a crowd, they are toast very fast.
Sorry but any rogue that can play the class decently should be able to catch up to a hunter fairly easily, even starting at long range. Vanish to break any movement impairment, then sprint before he can pull off another wing clip...
Once I get up close to you, you may as well call it lights out for the hunter. There's no way he'll survive. Crippling Poison 
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Error wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Sorry but any rogue that can play the class decently should be able to catch up to a hunter fairly easily, even starting at long range. Vanish to break any movement impairment, then sprint before he can pull off another wing clip...Once I get up close to you, you may as well call it lights out for the hunter. There's no way he'll survive. Crippling Poison
You cannot Vanish with Hunters mark on you. You cannot Vanish if the Area has been covered in Flare. In fact, a Hunter can counter just about anything a Rogue can throw at them. Not to mention one Scorpid Sting damn near cripples you by a good bit. Once a Hunter has you, they will finish you.
The ONLY way they will survive is by getting the drop on you first, or with a Buddy. As I said though, if the Hunter picks one out of a Crowd, they are toast.
This is also all while my pet is eating away at you, unless you decide to take it out (Gouge or otherwise, in which case it will EVENTUALLY wake back up). Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 01-12-2005 at 07:29 AM.
My opinion in a short format. Hunters are good solo PvE. They're ok group PvE. In solo PvP any smart player will tear them apart. In group PvP they suck, unless the other group is filled with idiots.
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Talonus's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
A rogue will kick a hunter's ass, whether or not he opens up combat on you first or you open up combat on him. I've had hunters with a pet get the drop on me and I still take them out with ease. Once that rogue reaches the hunter, he's dead. Period. If he doesn't reach the hunter, either because he sucks or his net-o-matic is down, he most likely deserves to die or is getting ganked anyway. I know you have all your ideas about abilities Fae, but it doesn't work out that way normally.My opinion in a short format. Hunters are good solo PvE. They're ok group PvE. In solo PvP any smart player will tear them apart. In group PvP they suck, unless the other group is filled with idiots.
Concidering Rogues are my favorite prey, I disagree.
Even in Duels where I dont have the advatage and advance ranged, I can make a Rogues life hell. The worst thing they can do to me is Gouge me and get in some high hits. Backstab is not going to work without it because Im not dumb enough to stand around and allow them to do it. Rogues have no way to hide from a Hunter, or Stealth.
You opinions on using Engineering are situational, and the Hunter can just as easily use the same abilities. Same with potions.
Any smart Hunter will take out a rogue very easily. I have done it, I do it often, and I enjoy it. The only time a Rogue has a chance against me is if they get the drop on me, otherwise, they do not have the defenses, nor the abilities to survive me. It is very easy to cripple a Rogue for a Hunter, very easy. You can negate some of thier stronger abilities involving stealth, thier DPS is decent but avoidable. There are many ways around a Rogue for a Hunter.
In fact on the Boards and Elsewhere you will find mostly Rogues are the ones calling for Hunter nerfs. 
And I dont have all these ideas about abilities, when I effectively and constantly use them in practice.
We only suck in group PvP if we are taken out first, which is true, it is often the case BECAUSE of how damaging we are in group PvP. Solo PvP, no, I again disagree, we are very strong in that area. As we can counter casters completely and become thier worst nightmare as we get higher in levels. The only difficulties we have are Warriors and occasionally Shamans. (ANd if you wanna take Tae's word for it, we can even effectively kite Warriors to death. Faelynn LeAndris fucked around with this message on 01-12-2005 at 07:54 AM. )
Oh, and the boards are never a good guage of who's overpowered. The boards are full of complainers who exaggerate the problems with the game. There's class imbalances, but if you believed the boards than one would be led to believe that paladins eat babies.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Talonus said:
You're not 60 yet, so you can't use your own experiences. Its not a fair gauge to either class, because neither has all of their abilities yet. Once you get 60 or have access to a level 60, then you can use your own experiences Fae. My opinion is coming from playing a 60 rogue that I have access to.Oh, and the boards are never a good guage of who's overpowered. The boards are full of complainers who exaggerate the problems with the game. There's class imbalances, but if you believed the boards than one would be led to believe that paladins eat babies.
You have access to, or thats all you play? Hunter is my prime, and what I play almost exclusively. I don't play much of anything else at all anymore unless I need to practice a tactic I have seen someone else use in order to find a counter.
Yeahm your right, I'm not 60, however I am post 40, and not much at all has changed within the last 20 or so levels. To contradict my opinion, and like the Rogue, I only get stronger with levels. It COULD change, it MIGHT change, but I don't see it changing really. And it is just as likely for you, since its a class you have ACCESS to do play, but don't exclusively play, that you have only faced hunters that sucked just as likely as it is you claim I have only faced Rogues that suck.
I don't believe the boards, that was merely a statement that Rogues are the ones who call for Hunter nerfs mroe than anyone else. Not that what they had to say was in way valid or in-valid, just they are the most vocal group about it.
And yes, it is totally unfair to compare classes at anything but level 60. You're going to have more abilities, more talents, different talent specs (PvE specs are different from PvP in many cases), different armors (a 39 hunter is vastly different from a level 40 hunter in his access to armor afterall), etc. Hell, a level 60 that just hit 60 and one that has had a chance to farm/raid the higher level instances are going to vastly differ. Its simply not fair to compare classes at anything but 60.
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Talonus's fortune cookie read:
You're not 60 yet, so you can't use your own experiences. Its not a fair gauge to either class, because neither has all of their abilities yet. Once you get 60 or have access to a level 60, then you can use your own experiences Fae. My opinion is coming from playing a 60 rogue that I have access to.Oh, and the boards are never a good guage of who's overpowered. The boards are full of complainers who exaggerate the problems with the game. There's class imbalances, but if you believed the boards than one would be led to believe that paladins eat babies.
A paladin ate me when I was a baby.
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Talonus had this to say about Knight Rider:
The only time I play the rogue is to PvP on a PvP server, whether during a fight nights or just random PvP. I have more than enough experience with the class. Hell, let me go ask the owner what he thinks of facing hunters in PvP... One second... His response, "Wtf are you bothering me for with such a stupid question? You know the answer to that." Better for you?And yes, it is totally unfair to compare classes at anything but level 60. You're going to have more abilities, more talents, different talent specs (PvE specs are different from PvP in many cases), different armors (a 39 hunter is vastly different from a level 40 hunter in his access to armor afterall), etc. Hell, a level 60 that just hit 60 and one that has had a chance to farm/raid the higher level instances are going to vastly differ. Its simply not fair to compare classes at anything but 60.
Okay Fine, I'll change my opinion just for you.
To retate my opinion, 45 and under you will own Rogues, since I dont have the experience of a level 60, I don't have the experience past that point.
That better Tal? I CAN use my experience up to that point, and I can quite honestly say we can best a Rogue, Mage, Druid, and just about anything but a Warrior if done correctly for 2/3rds of the game.
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Everyone wondered WTF when Faelynn LeAndris wrote:
Okay Fine, I'll change my opinion just for you.To retate my opinion, 45 and under you will own Rogues, since I dont have the experience of a level 60, I don't have the experience past that point.
That better Tal? I CAN use my experience up to that point, and I can quite honestly say we can best a Rogue, Mage, Druid, and just about anything but a Warrior if done correctly for 2/3rds of the game.
Save for a warlock.
Sorry, Fae, but a warlock is nasty.
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Falaanla Marr had this to say about Duck Tales:
Save for a warlock.Sorry, Fae, but a warlock is nasty.
I hate Slappy.
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Falaanla Marr had this to say about dark elf butts:
Save for a warlock.Sorry, Fae, but a warlock is nasty.
I my warlock. Can't wait for 54; final corruption upgrade! (With 666 damage OMG OMG RUN AWAY)
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Nobody really understood why Faelynn LeAndris wrote:
You cannot Vanish with Hunters mark on you. You cannot Vanish if the Area has been covered in Flare. In fact, a Hunter can counter just about anything a Rogue can throw at them. Not to mention one Scorpid Sting damn near cripples you by a good bit. Once a Hunter has you, they will finish you.The ONLY way they will survive is by getting the drop on you first, or with a Buddy. As I said though, if the Hunter picks one out of a Crowd, they are toast.
This is also all while my pet is eating away at you, unless you decide to take it out (Gouge or otherwise, in which case it will EVENTUALLY wake back up).
I don't think you understand why I would vanish....it's certainly not to become stealth. It's to break any movement impairing effects. Which then gives me the chance to sprint to you before you can slow me down again.
And once that happens, the hunter will not escape with crippling poison on my weapons. Error fucked around with this message on 01-12-2005 at 05:34 PM.
There is nothing, to my knowledge, the hunter can do about this.
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Verily, Addy doth proclaim:
I hate Slappy.
Slappy rules.
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Verily, Falaanla Marr doth proclaim:
Save for a warlock.Sorry, Fae, but a warlock is nasty.
Yeah, check my first few posts, I meantioned Warlocks a little higher up on the list. 
I hate Warlocks.
I can TYPICALLY beat them, but even if I beat them, I usually die.
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Error wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
I don't think you understand why I would vanish....it's certainly not to become stealth. It's to break any movement impairing effects. Which then gives me the chance to sprint to you before you can slow me down again.And once that happens, the hunter will not escape with crippling poison on my weapons.
There is nothing, to my knowledge, the hunter can do about this.
I think you missed the point of what I meant by you cannot use Vanish, as in, with Hunters mark on you, it keeps the Ability from working correctly as in removing you from my target. If you use it immediately after a WingClip, well then its gone, you are still in my target, and I'll just instantly WingClip you again since it has no cooldown, is instant cast, and uses little mana, at which point you cannot use Vanish again for five minutes (Coincidentally, more than enough time for me to kill you).
Unless you are using Crippling Poison II (which is 50+ if I recall), my WingClip is still better, if you are even lucky enough that it goes off with its 30% chance before I can get out of Range after having clipped you. And that is assuming you even get close enough in the first place right away after a Concussion shot, because typically, Ill just run away until you use your Sprint and Vanish up.
I also happen to have Master First aid, and typically carry around my Strong Anti-Venom (Specifically for Rogues, thanks to Gadani, the bastard), as well as a variety of potions. Yes, there are actually things we can do against Rogue poisons (At least up to your level 35 ones).
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Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about Pirotess:
I also happen to have Master First aid, and typically carry around my Strong Anti-Venom (Specifically for Rogues, thanks to Gadani, the bastard), as well as a variety of potions. Yes, there are actually things we can do against Rogue poisons (At least up to your level 35 ones).
This is why rogues should stick with instant poison if they want to deal extra damage.
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Addy probably says this to all the girls:
This is why rogues should stick with instant poison if they want to deal extra damage.
Don't listen to Addy. She's haxor iirc.
Caid '5 Fists' Berrit fucked around with this message on 01-13-2005 at 01:58 AM.
*Cannot actually kick any of your asses.
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Delphi Aegis stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
I propose a rule whereby Fae cannot speak about WoW save in an advisory sense. This "lolol rogues pwn hunters" and subsequent "lol u fag hunters pwn rogues" (Replacing rogues with whatever happens to be the flavor of the thread) is getting tiresome. Quickly.
Seconded.
I won't speak for stupid nelf hunters. Mainly because I haven't seen one at 60, but also because there are about THREE HUNDRED BILLION on my server.
One of the more important things you can do for your hunter is research. By that, I mean research on mobs. Yes, that turtle IS an awesome tank at whatever level. But as you level, there are a lot more choices as to what to tame. Around 42, King bangalesh becomes availible. He has insane resists, fast attack speed, and RUNS fast. Later on (48/49) you can tame the bears in felwood. These things are MONSTERS.. for some reason I cannot fathom. Our 60th hunter uses one, and it makes a damn good tank.
I shall not speak in PvP, since I haven't faced that many hunters (Strange, no?) in one on one combat.. It's been mainly them sending their pets in to a group to try and kill something, and having it trained to the wind rider to agent smith the manticores and make them go back and beat the shit out of the hunter (And subsequent raiding party.).
Also, a tip, having played a pet class. Aggressive is useless, save in EXTREME situations. I, in my 54 levels, have NOT found one. That should say something. Defensive can be annoying as well. Half my pets are on passive.
Bind pet attack and pet follow to easily reachable keys (I use mouse buttons, ymmv) and you'll find yourself controlling aggro for things like mezzing/sheeping/whatever in groups well.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about pies:
Seconded.
I mainly say it because half the time he's talking out his ass.
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There was much rejoicing when Delphi Aegis said this:
I mainly say it because half the time he's talking out his ass.
I seconded it for the same reason.
Sorry, Fae
