I'm really quite curious.

Haha, I live in Georgia and there are still people with t-shirts that say "the South will rise again"

...Yeah.

Anyways, judging by your purple color, welcome to EC nub.

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Sepia had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Haha, I live in Georgia and there are still people with t-shirts that say "the South will rise again"

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I've got two, but they're both Big Johnson shirts.

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From the book of Dr Cysa, chapter 3, verse 16:
Which south? Texas or the the other confederate states.

Anyways, judging by your purple color, welcome to EC nub.

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Sepia is Suddar's girlfriend, if I remember correctly, and registered like, last year.

Anyways, Texas is pretty dependant. We learn Texas History before US History.

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Tegadil wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Your name has been Magenta'd.

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Yay! What does purple mean? (Suddar hasn't educated me on the colors thing)

Over time the Federal government took more power and a lot of the southern states got very disenfranchised with the way things were going. They tried to succeed and in an attempt to save the Union, Lincoln used federal troops to block it. The south opened fire on a Northern occupied fort in their territory. So while the South did fire first they were doing it in response to what they considered a Northern Military action.

This is the basis for Southern Pride. It has nothing to do with Racism or slavery. It has everything to do with Individuality, self respect, Pride in your heritage, and standing up for what is right. Yes you have your uneducated rednecks who can't stand "dem thar negros" But they are the minority. The majority are hard working strong willed people who will stand up beside a friend in need no matter what the cost.

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Ozimander wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
The North East, with the exception of New York, shuts down around 8:30 PM.

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....you mean like New England right? cause Jersey sure as hell doesn't shut down at 8:30PM.

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Razor impressed everyone with:
an educated guess.

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So, you didn't get too far past second grade.

purple means
a) you jsut joined, or
b) you changed your name.

but now you're blue...

AGAIN!

MUAHAHAH

*goes and drinks another pina colada*

1. Southern people are in fact more friendly. In NY, when walking down the street, people stare at the ground in front of them, and nowhere else, very retracted. Down here, I am asked how I'm doing, or said hello to by countless people when I do venture forth from the Maratao Lair. Its a more conversationally open society.

2. The Church rules here. The bible belt is very aptly named, even well educated people down here resolve to christianity. Going to church is not a weekly chore, it is one of the premier southern social events, it is the source of a lot of professional networking. To truly get ahead, one must attend church to meet the people there.

3. Code of conduct is a lot different, there was a study by I thiiink the university of Delaware on the concept of male honor. i.e. defending ones opinion with violence instead of turning the other cheek. They polled nothern and southern uni's on a variety of questions, and found that southern men were far more apt to fight, physically punch some mofo in the face fight, over what they believed in. I certainly believe this to be true.

4. There are a lot more black people. And the majority of the black culture down here is defined as ignorance. In fact, my mother and I were noticing that there was very little in the way of middle ground black people. Most of them are uneducated, in gangs, sound ghetto, what have you. However any of them that arent, tend to have multiple degrees, usually all at Masters or higher, and are still pursuing more. Ironically the uneducated culture group view the majority of the educated ones as "sellouts" or "uncle toms"

5. Racism, it exists here, it thrives here, as a New Yorker moving down here, I hated it, I hated the very stupidity of it, I still do, unbased hate towards another for no apparant reason is beyond words for me. However down here its, well, different, yes there is that percentage of unjustified racism, but on the same point, there is a lot of justified racism, people who kept open minds and were disappointed time and time again, after 30 years of dealing with a single race, one will form patterns and generalizations. Also keep in mind, its hardly one way, I tend to feel more racism coming to me from blacks, than I do from white people to blacks.

6. Respect. the idiom of the southern gentlemen exists here, people by default refer to others with proper titles (miss, mrs, sir, ma'am), however, its so commonplace, that its no longer accepted as genuine respect, but only that the lack thereof is specific disprespect.

Outside of the regional accents and climates, that about the biggest differences I can see.

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Suddar stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Sepia and I decided that in the north people are mean to your face, while in the south people are mean to your back.

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is mean to Suddar's face... WITH A BASEBALL BAT

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Azizza attempted to be funny by writing:
The southern states tend to be a bit more independent. This is the basis for the "The South will rise again" sentiment. It isn't about Slavery or anything like it despite what some people will try to tell you. *Eyes Razor* The idea goes back to the original debate on the Constitution Vs. The Articles of confederation. Many wanted to keep strong states rights and a very weak federal government.

Over time the Federal government took more power and a lot of the southern states got very disenfranchised with the way things were going. They tried to succeed and in an attempt to save the Union, Lincoln used federal troops to block it. The south opened fire on a Northern occupied fort in their territory. So while the South did fire first they were doing it in response to what they considered a Northern Military action.

This is the basis for Southern Pride. It has nothing to do with Racism or slavery. It has everything to do with Individuality, self respect, Pride in your heritage, and standing up for what is right. Yes you have your uneducated rednecks who can't stand "dem thar negros" But they are the minority. The majority are hard working strong willed people who will stand up beside a friend in need no matter what the cost.

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While the core beneficent side of it might roll that way, after 15 years of being the "damned yankee come down to the South" I can tell you that whatever the backstory is, it isn't a reason for the grudge. It's just an excuse. The reason is that it always has been that way, and that's reason enough for most people.

In all fairness, the North does have quite a lot of reasons to be iffy about the South. From the very beginning, the South was more interested in farming than, say, education. Education standards are, on average, the lowest in the nation not in the North, but in the South. There are people I went to middle school with who'd never been out of their county, much less their state. Many families in the South are interrelated (I can't tell you how many times my Mother would say "X is related to Y through the Brock family and Z is related to X through the Cannon family and blah blah blah" when we lived in NC). Self-styled "South'n Gen'lemen" still like to flash an accent and try and sweet talk folks, but they're largely snake charmer types.

Likewise, socially a lot of the South seems like a social engineering experiment gone horribly wrong. Combine the sense of isolation you find in, say, a 14th century village with 21st century amenities. Everyone knows everyone else, everyone's probably got common ancestors with everyone else after a few generations, no new ideas make it into the governing bodies (Jesse Helms, anyone?) for decades, and when they do, they still have problems getting implemented. There's still a strict race divide, though now it's White/Black/Hispanic rather than just White/Black. Prior to moving to NC, I hardly noticed the difference in black and white, but now I can't help but notice it, and I feel dirty for having lost that bit of innocence.

There are PLENTY of reasons to like the South, and I gather that the farther west you go, the better things become (probably because the West was not in fact largely settled at the time of the Civil War) but when Northerners crack "southern hick" jokes, they are in my opinion fully justified if for no other reason than the Southerners have this unreasoning resentment for the North and people from the North.

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael fucked around with this message on 08-09-2004 at 10:38 AM.

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Out of a possible 10, Suddar scored a straight 1 with:
Sepia and I decided that in the north people are mean to your face, while in the south people are mean to your back.

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You obviously have never been to Texas

I had some "South will rise again, we have confederate money in our family strongbox to use when it becomes worth something again" kind of people.

Azizza your post reads like a propaganda speech

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The logic train ran off the tracks when Elvish Crack Piper said:

Azizza your post reads like a propaganda speech

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Please find something in there that isn't true. You claim it sounds like propaganda just because you want a reason to bitch. Hell I am not even from the south. I just have a lot of respect for them.

It kicked the SNES and Sega in the ass for games.

I want a reason to bitch? I have plenty of other topics to do so on. Your post is a glowing piece of "Yaes fer da South!!" It isnt about angst about slavery and such? Cmon dude.

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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Elvish Crack Piper was all like:
I miss the Amiga.

It kicked the SNES and Sega in the ass for games.

I want a reason to bitch? I have plenty of other topics to do so on. Your post is a glowing piece of "Yaes fer da South!!" It isnt about angst about slavery and such? Cmon dude.

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You arn't making any sense, sorry. No the south and even the civil war was not about Slavery. Any history book worth the paper it is printed on will Support this fact.

Or thats at least how I remember it explained.

Katrinity fucked around with this message on 08-09-2004 at 11:46 AM.

There are some scholars who believe that the Civil war actually slowed down the advancement of Civil rights. Advances in technology were making slavery uneconomic and it is felt that as blacks were freed in large numbers they would have been able to lobby for their rights. The War and the aftermath caused lot of the animosity we see today. I am not sure if I fully agree with this or not but I can see the merits of the argument.

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Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

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And while that's well and good for those four states, slavery was again addressed on the federal level, in the CSA constitution:

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Confederate Constitution, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 4:
No bill of attainder or ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

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In other words, slavery was in for the long haul in the CSA.

The South is very independant and believed at the time that each State should have final say in what goes on within its borders. So with the Federal Government protrayed as trying to weaken the States power, the Southern States took the Constitution for its word that this was a Union of States and succeded peacefully.

There are a number of articles out there under both views. The above is more of the Confederate view on the matter. Not sure how the Northern States exactly saw it.

Civil War Info

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Verily, Bajah doth proclaim:
You obviously have never been to Texas

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But Texas is only the south by grouping, better off thinking of Texas as a whole other country

-- I think many things the "southren" have been ripped off from Texas and the West.

Peter fucked around with this message on 08-09-2004 at 12:58 PM.

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ACES! Another post by Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael:
While the core beneficent side of it might roll that way, after 15 years of being the "damned yankee come down to the South" I can tell you that whatever the backstory is, it isn't a reason for the grudge. It's just an excuse. The reason is that it always has been that way, and that's reason enough for most people.

In all fairness, the North does have quite a lot of reasons to be iffy about the South. From the very beginning, the South was more interested in farming than, say, education. Education standards are, on average, the lowest in the nation not in the North, but in the South. There are people I went to middle school with who'd never been out of their county, much less their state. Many families in the South are interrelated (I can't tell you how many times my Mother would say "X is related to Y through the Brock family and Z is related to X through the Cannon family and blah blah blah" when we lived in NC). Self-styled "South'n Gen'lemen" still like to flash an accent and try and sweet talk folks, but they're largely snake charmer types.

Likewise, socially a lot of the South seems like a social engineering experiment gone horribly wrong. Combine the sense of isolation you find in, say, a 14th century village with 21st century amenities. Everyone knows everyone else, everyone's probably got common ancestors with everyone else after a few generations, no new ideas make it into the governing bodies (Jesse Helms, anyone?) for decades, and when they do, they still have problems getting implemented. There's still a strict race divide, though now it's White/Black/Hispanic rather than just White/Black. Prior to moving to NC, I hardly noticed the difference in black and white, but now I can't help but notice it, and I feel dirty for having lost that bit of innocence.

There are PLENTY of reasons to like the South, and I gather that the farther west you go, the better things become (probably because the West was not in fact largely settled at the time of the Civil War) but when Northerners crack "southern hick" jokes, they are in my opinion fully justified if for no other reason than the Southerners have this unreasoning resentment for the North and people from the North.

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The North has no more reason to be iffy about the South than the South does for the north. In fact most of what you wrote sounds more like unreasoning resentment for the South by the North than vise versa. You have quite a few things right in there mixed in with personal distaste and opinion, but a lot of it is arbitrary. A person coming from the North to the South is not going to be treated any worse than someone from the South coming to the North. Both sides of the fence carry unwarranted issues, which, like I said, makes it all arbitrary and circumstancial. Neither side has a reason.

For one on your Racial issue, which you bring up the seperating among the south. A lot of that has to do with the fact the South has a larger overall concentration of the supposed minority races. As an example, you can go to Missouri (Which is neither north or south) and see the numbers dwindling off. You can go just about everywhere in that state and not see a single Black person unless they happen to be a Tourist or you hit the inner cities of say St Louis and Kansas City (Yes there are some, but it is not like Texas for instance where no matter where you go you are likely to have half a dozen or more at LEAST). There just is not a large enough concentration for it to be obvious. It is however nothing unanimously Southern. The point I will give however is that racism and racial seperation IS higher down here in REGARDS to the point that there is a higher concetration in the south and southwest. In fact, being an Army brat and having lived just about everwhere, I can honestly say I was not racist or had any semi-racist (And Im still not really, but I AM Jaded) until I moved to Texas, but over the years and through experiences in my life I have gotten to the point where I am reflexively wary of Black people. NOt because I want to be, and not because I hate anyone for thier skin color but because down here there is a lot of Racism (Not by whites, but AGAINST them) and life has taught me to watch my back and be distrustfull.

Southerns are not inherently isolationists either, in fact it's the opposite. We tend to be overly social and welcoming. You are confusing tight family and community with social isolation. There are very few and rare communities that are tightlocked, and you will find those that are are usually retiries and people who ARE set in thier old ways and they just dont WANT anymore change because its time for life to slow down. Southerners do however tend to have a strong vision of self and loyalty, especially to family and friendly peers. There is a tyically a greater sense of family among southerns and ties are typically stronger overall (Although not universally). You'll typically find that a SOutherner is more likely to get "involved" rather than isolate or disassociate than a Northerner is, which is contradictory to your previous comment that it is SOUTHERNERS that are isolationist. If you go to some place like New York for instance, there can get a woman getting mugged, raped, whatever happening right in front of someone walking down the sidewalk, and they will keep on walking without a second thought because it may be too risky, or not worth getting involved. Now in the case of a Dallas Texan for instance is more likely to get involved and help. Again this not universal, but far more common. There is a greater sense of community in the South than the North.

They is a great deal more Pride in a Southerner than in a Northerner. Now granted it may be misplaced Pride, or even stupid pride in some cases, but not always and regardless it is still pride. They tend to care more, and be more offended because of it. There is a less sense of a Apathy (Although that exists too, this isn't universal just most common, and thats not saying that the north is completely Apathetic or anything) and more a sense of involvement and careing. Overall there is just more pride and a feeling of self-worth in the south than in the North.

As for your "southern hick jokes" being justified. They are no more justified for you than those "damn yankee jokes" are justified for us. Thats just claiming elitism or that you have a personal right to have this distaste or resentment towards someone from the south more than a Southerner has the personal right to have the same distate or resentment towards someone from the north.

Texas really does kinda follow its own rules.

Ja'Deth: "North vs South"
Fae: "North vs South"

THE WEST SHALL RISE AGAIN!

..or something

We're primarily Conservative, but there are many idiots here, as well...sorry, Liberals.

Religion isn't really big here. There are certainly a lot of Catholics and what not, but it's not a ruling thing here, as in the south.

People are friendly, but only if you're one of them. There are pretty distinct castes.

Money is a big influence and indicator of success.

So that's us.

First of all North and South both poke fun at each other, and both have their reasons too. Unfotunately we are still one big country so unless one of you has a rifle and wants to start up the civil war again, I suggest we leave it at:

The difference between north and south is that north is more industrial and the south is more agricultural. This fact hasn't changed.

While I do technically live in the north and I was born and raised here half my family is from the south where they were born and raised. Now I go down there all the time and I've never really been treated with any disrespect, but I do notice quite a bit of rascism more so then up north, the reason for this I think is that in the south there aren't quiet as many ethnic folks, and then what little word of how blacks or hispanics reaches the south its rarely good. I go down to the south and I mention going into the city they all act like it was a mirical I wasn't mugged by some black guy. Now in the north we make fun of the south alot for being poorly educated which just isn't quiet right, the south is educated, but they learn different things then we do up north. They'll learn different trades downsouth more than we do upnorth so while we know algebra and geometry, they know farming and carpentry. Its a fair trade off as far as I care.

Now also different parts of the south treat different parts of the north differently. I've been to texas thats probably the worst I've been treated, while in NC, Arkansas, Florida, and SC I've been treated with the same respect as I get visiting a northern state. I don't really think its getting to be about north or south that much anymore its more just people from different states.

Dr Cysa fucked around with this message on 08-09-2004 at 07:42 PM.

And I never said that people in the South had no redeeming qualities, Fae. I merely pointed out that, in my experience, a lot of the stereotypes about the South are, in fact, correct.