quote:
There was much rejoicing when Tal NSFW!! said this:
Oh yeah..I am a student of history. More specifically, I am a student of the means of death throughout history. Weapons, Poisons, Execution, and all the tools of the trade. From this, I have gained knowledge in a great many things. Those would be the subjects I listed in my previous posts. Metallurgy, Anatomy, Geometry, Physics, Chemistry.. All that good shit. Along with studying the weapons of war, I have also studied the use of those weapons, in both the intended means, and the practical means. I am not a student, dedicated to a single art, so you may have me beat in that specific area..
But, odds are, I know more about that sword in your hands than you do. And, I am fairly confidant, that I could put it to use better than you could. You may have spent ten years learning how to use it, but I've spent ten years using it.
And of course, theres the "Put up or shut up" bit. I would be more than willing to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. With boken, or shinai, of course. (Unless either of you two are undead, in which case, I'll need a good katana, and a plane ticket.)
Now then... My credentials don't involve a lot of Japanese names, or links to websites. But then.. why do I need them?
You still have no credibility. As for knowing about the metals, I put little faith in your knowledge, you presented no information of use about them. As for your skill, it may or may not be greater than my own, I've no idea where you stand on it but I don't know much. Ian and Muso have studied the arts long enough that I can almost be sure they'd eclipse you skill. You can spend all the years you like being a backyard samurai, but if you never bother learning from an experienced teacher and getting some classical training, you can't claim any kind of skill. All you can claim is some improv and maybe a little natural talent. Neither of those is enough to found an arguement on.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Maho had this to say about Duck Tales:
There's really nothing left to fight over. Tal's position has been completely overrun and his credibility destroyed. He's also descended to insults and petty squabbling where he should have presented some kind of decent arguement for his point. He hasn't presented any credentials or any kind of back-up for what he says.
Were you not paying attention?
You got pwned.
You ran off to find people to help you.
You effectively gave up any gloating rights in this thread.
Shut your piehole.
True enough, the both of them made much better arguements than you did, however, all they did, was name a bunch of shit in Japanese, as thier creds.. hell, I coulda done that. Wouldnt have been true, but then, how do we know they aren't full of shit.
Oh, and Ian Benjamin.. Stick around til your birthday.. I got JUST THE PORN to post. 
quote:
Tal NSFW!! had this to say:
Ok.. lets see..2. I'm happy being a barbaric white boy.
4. I know, and am willing to admit that I do not know all there is about the sword.
5. Thats your fucking opinion. I have my own.
6. Who said I was studying Iaido? Just because I know about it, doesnt mean I'm a student of it.
7. Lighter weight weapons, even for use in practice, are actually more damaging, and stressful on your joints, and muscles, than a fully weighted blade is. Hard to believe, but after 10 years of combat experience, I know it personally, and physically, to be a fact.
2. I have no problem with that, I realize I'm white/mixed ethnic. It's not for everyone, and I have no intention of forcing my philosophies on people. I respect your position.
4. Thank you for this concession, nor do I know all there is about swords. I am no sword god, just a fairly well educated student of this art. I'm by no means THE authority, or even among the most venerable, but I do feel I understand this particular martial art intimately.
5. Nothing wrong with having different opinions when they are conveyed articulately and in a civil manner. Might I ask once more that we keep a mutual respect and avoid ad hominem?
6. Therein lies the problem. It's my understanding that you don't follow my reasoning for just this very reason.
7. Actually I do agree that this is the case for some, but I have also seen permanent damage caused by heavier instruments. That is not a bad point to make, but with proper technique the benefits of using a light blade outweigh the potential problems. I tend to switch back and forth between a lighter and heavier iaito for many reasons, some of which we have mentioned. On this point we may have more in common than meets the eye. We can agree to differ in opinions in this matter.
I just don't want people who are genuinely interested in the swords arts to be discouraged. It's not a cheap hobby by any means, but it can be managed on a budget. For some it's not worth the money to get these expensive japanese blades, for others it's akin to paintings, pottery, or other valued cultural artwork. Both sides are equally valid. I hope we can reach an understanding.
Everything ever taught to you by Jim Bob of Billy Bob's Black Belt Emporium is a lie. Now, tie your obi UNDER the hakama and try again.
quote:
Verily, Tal NSFW!! doth proclaim:
Were you not paying attention?You got pwned.
You ran off to find people to help you.
You effectively gave up any gloating rights in this thread.
Shut your piehole.True enough, the both of them made much better arguements than you did, however, all they did, was name a bunch of shit in Japanese, as thier creds.. hell, I coulda done that. Wouldnt have been true, but then, how do we know they aren't full of shit.
Oh, and Ian Benjamin.. Stick around til your birthday.. I got JUST THE PORN to post.
How do you figure you owned me? You backed up none of your arguements with anything. A couple friends read your posts, got frustrated, and decided to set the record straight. Now, either present some credentials, or shut your face. The japanese words are names of styles, to a large degree. If you bothered to research them, you might realize your error. The only ownage here is what has been wreaked on you. I have plenty to gloat about because my position has been almost completely correct the entire time and it has back-up.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Trillee had this to say about pies:
First of, I want to know is.. isn't it kind of unhonerable to have all the aformentioned swords dishonourable, if you're not a samuri or anything of the like?
If I take what you're saying correctly, you're asking if it's dishonorable for a non-samurai to wield a katana. If that's what you're asking, no. It's not dishonorable, it's just uncommon. When they were in use commonly (sengoku era) the only people who could afford them were samurai. Honor wise, it really depends how you use it. Killing from the shadows or stabbing a man from behind are dishonorable things to do, for example.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
For example, "You rape children, therefore we cannot trust your opinion on day cares" would be ad hominem
Whereas, "You rape children, kidfucker!" would not.
Is this hard to understand?
I kind of like the newbs he brought in though.
quote:
Trillee had this to say about Pirotess:
First of, I want to know is.. isn't it kind of unhonerable to have all the aformentioned swords dishonourable, if you're not a samuri or anything of the like?
Are you asking if it's strange or dishonorable for a foreigner to own and use swords? I would say yes if the blade is an antique of real value. Some shinshinto pieces (Edo era/Tokugawa rule) were not of much artistic worth, and thus are accepted as blades for iai, but not normally for tameshigiri (cutting practice). I would agree it's a horrible thing to do to the older blades. People commission newly made blades for cutting practice. Most of the sword artists, if they do own antiques, regard themselves as a keeper or curator ensuring that the next generation may appreciate the blades. The samurai are long gone, and I have no illusions there. It's archaic and esoteric, but it's a part of culture I've taken an interest in preserving. Hope I understood the question correctly, let me know if I'm way off and I'll try again.
Everything ever taught to you by Jim Bob of Billy Bob's Black Belt Emporium is a lie. Now, tie your obi UNDER the hakama and try again.
Just say it in english.
No one will care or remember after having read it.
quote:
Vorbis had this to say about Cuba:
GAH. Ad hominem is only ad hominem when it is an attack upon the character of a person with the intent of that character flaw disproving the argument.For example, "You rape children, therefore we cannot trust your opinion on day cares" would be ad hominem
Whereas, "You rape children, kidfucker!" would not.
Is this hard to understand?
Unless I'm sorely mistaken, Tal made several attacks on Ian's character claiming that he must be some "pocky loving otaku" and an "anime geek." These would constitute a character flaw that would disprove his arguement as, if he were merely these things, he probably would have little knowledge about the sword and it's uses.
Also, would someone explain how Tal's unfounded arguements constitute? I think it's fair to say at this point that mine were pretty well founded, if a bit off on a few points.
quote:
Elvish Crack Piper had this to say about dark elf butts:
Whats the point of saying a typing a word in japanese just to write it out in (english)Just say it in english.
No one will care or remember after having read it.
The words I used are the japanese names of parts of the sword, I couldn't see any reason not to use them. As for the words presented by Ian and Muso, most of them are style names and can't be rendered in english, nor should they be. They're names. Maho fucked around with this message on 06-15-2004 at 03:46 AM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Maho was naked while typing this:
You still have no credibility. As for knowing about the metals, I put little faith in your knowledge, you presented no information of use about them. As for your skill, it may or may not be greater than my own, I've no idea where you stand on it but I don't know much. Ian and Muso have studied the arts long enough that I can almost be sure they'd eclipse you skill. You can spend all the years you like being a backyard samurai, but if you never bother learning from an experienced teacher and getting some classical training, you can't claim any kind of skill. All you can claim is some improv and maybe a little natural talent. Neither of those is enough to found an arguement on.
You assume I would spend ten years, and learn nothing? You assume I have never been taught anything? You assume an awful lot.
What kind of information should I have presented as proof of my knowledge of Metals? Lets see.. Say, that beryllium is toxic? That Aluminum/Zinc, depending on the exact alloy, has approx 1/3 the weight of steel? Or shall we get into the deeper meat of the matter, in that when folding the metal in a Katana's blade, the smith will burn it over a heavy smoking woodfire, to add more carbon to every other layer in the blade, to add flexibility? They do not use stainless steel, NOT because it is too brittle, but because the folding actually weakens the metal, and as such, does not gain the benefits from folding that carbon steel does?
but no.. I couldnt possibly know what I am talking about, because I dont speak japanese, or link URLs
As for training under experienced masters..
I used to teach weapon history, and use at a Dojo. I have fought a great many people who have had this formal training. Escrima, Kendo, and yes, even Iaido. I will say this, about the practical applications of Iaido..
If I get within ten feet of you, and that sword isn't drawn.. Thats Your Ass. 10 years of experience USING my fighting skill tells me this.
Kinda why its seen as a dead art. Very Limited application in the modern world. The main thing an Iaido master can do.. is teach Iaido. I mean, yeah, Iaido has its uses. Discipline, Awareness, Control.. but you can get these from a great many places.
quote:
Vorbis said this about your mom:
GAH. Ad hominem is only ad hominem when it is an attack upon the character of a person with the intent of that character flaw disproving the argument.For example, "You rape children, therefore we cannot trust your opinion on day cares" would be ad hominem
Whereas, "You rape children, kidfucker!" would not.
Is this hard to understand?
Ah, I see your point. Perhaps that was a poor choice of words, but my message behind it remains. I'd rather he stick to the subject than call names and make crude comments. You are correct in the usage, I believe.
Everything ever taught to you by Jim Bob of Billy Bob's Black Belt Emporium is a lie. Now, tie your obi UNDER the hakama and try again.
New, old, or made as a cheap set to sell to people...
quote:
Elvish Crack Piper impressed everyone with:
Pointing out someones charecters flaws and pointing out errors in an argument do not constitute pointing out charecters flaws as error in an argument.
I can't see where he made an error in arguement. Though I may have misunderstood adhominem. All that aside, I'd appreciate being enlightened as to how I was owned. I'm still having trouble seeing it.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Well shit.
Maybe you'd rather read the rules and see how things work around here?
See the color coded names? Hot pink means you've been here for less than a day.
Cyan is more than a day
Bronze is more than a year
Silver is more than two years.
Tals other account is gold, 3+ years.
You have no friends here. We will not change. You come off as sterotypical animeswordgeek.
Maho. Just stop.
quote:
From the book of Ian Benjamin, chapter 3, verse 16:
Ah, I see your point. Perhaps that was a poor choice of words, but my message behind it remains. I'd rather he stick to the subject than call names and make crude comments. You are correct in the usage, I believe.
's alright. Just a pet peeve of mine.
quote:
So quoth Maho:
Unless I'm sorely mistaken, Tal made several attacks on Ian's character claiming that he must be some "pocky loving otaku" and an "anime geek." These would constitute a character flaw that would disprove his arguement as, if he were merely these things, he probably would have little knowledge about the sword and it's uses.Also, would someone explain how Tal's unfounded arguements constitute? I think it's fair to say at this point that mine were pretty well founded, if a bit off on a few points.
Oh just shut up and go away already. You said that you "dopped" out of the fight. Or is remembering what you said too goddamned hard?
Unless I've missed something glaring (in which case, feel free to quote the entire offending post), then Tal only called your friends "pocky-sucking douchetards" (paraphrasing) to call them that. Not to explain away their arguments. Ergo, not ad hominem.
Now just piss off and stop trying to make pot shots. You're failing horribly. Vorbis fucked around with this message on 06-15-2004 at 03:53 AM.
quote:
ACES! Another post by Trillee:
Basicaly from what I remember, is that the katana is concidered the mark of honour for the Samurai. It was concidered part of their soul, and body. To be seperated from them was like to be seperated from their soul. And that anyone who freely weild such swords without the years of training and such to be an honourable samurai, was looked to be highly dishonourable.New, old, or made as a cheap set to sell to people...
Exactly, that's why it's important not to weild the blade unless you receive that sort of training. Not only is it disrespectful, but it's potentially dangerous. If someone wishes to appreciate it as art or simply keep a sword as an ornament this is their choice. I decided that if I was going to own them, I wanted to understand them and how they were used. That's why I decided to take Iai and Kendo. I have a great respect for the blades. The followers of some shinto sects are even more vehement about this respect, I cannot claim to be this bonded to the sword. If I did, I'd be a fool to assume such things.
Everything ever taught to you by Jim Bob of Billy Bob's Black Belt Emporium is a lie. Now, tie your obi UNDER the hakama and try again.
And Maho.. one last thing.
You saying I have no credibility, disproves nothing. I claim Pwnage on you, because you couldnt even last through the first page of this thread without running for backup.
quote:
Elvish Crack Piper wrote:
[QB]You'd rather he stick to the argument.Well shit.
Maybe you'd rather read the rules and see how things work around here?
See the color coded names? Hot pink means you've been here for less than a day.
Cyan is more than a day
Bronze is more than a year
Silver is more than two years.
Tals other account is gold, 3+ years.
You have no friends here. We will not change. You come off as sterotypical animeswordgeek.
QB]
I see, Maho explained a bit of that for me. I have spoken with a few members who seem to be quite friendly, one of which I've started speaking to through AIM. Anime doesn't enter into it, Kenshin is a far cry from Iai. The sword community has spent more time having to undo anime myths than we enjoy. I'm not really much of an "animeswordgeek" as much as I'm a student of culture.
I have other hobbies too mind you. Maho doesn't want to ever hear about it again, but I've been toying with the idea of doing a V8 engine swap for a small coup convertible. I'm sorry that my initial impression on you was poor, I hope we can move past that.
Everything ever taught to you by Jim Bob of Billy Bob's Black Belt Emporium is a lie. Now, tie your obi UNDER the hakama and try again.
quote:
Tal NSFW!! had this to say about dark elf butts:
You saying I have no credibility, disproves nothing. I claim Pwnage on you, because you couldnt even last through the first page of this thread without running for backup.
How can you claim pwnage on me? Your point is completely invalid and has no basis aside from "Tal says so!" My friends happen to be offended by people like you who make such unfounded assertions. They chose to intercede as they have greater knowledge than I and are more capable of making the point. Their intercession served only to strengthen my point. So I fail to see how you have any pwnage to claim
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Maho had this to say about (_|_):
How can you claim pwnage on me?
Seniority. JooJooFlop fucked around with this message on 06-15-2004 at 04:14 AM.
quote:
JooJooFlop thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Seinority.
What's seniority got to do with it? Tal has been proven wrong by three separate people? I don't get how seniority is even a factor. Who cares how long you've been on the boards, that doesn't make an arguement valid.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Yes, we are quite friendly, as long as you dont piss us off because ya didnt read the rules.
If your looking for just a nice toy sword set budk.com has some nice cheap sets, I bought the black dragon 3 sword set with a stand for 50 bucks.
Never underestimate the power of a titaium spork...
I have not read their posts. I do not know their character. I know they were brought here by Maho, who is scum, and thus they shall be judged as scum, too.
Their presence here will be dealt with.
quote:
Maho stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
What's seniority got to do with it? Tal has been proven wrong by three separate people? I don't get how seniority is even a factor. Who cares how long you've been on the boards, that doesn't make an arguement valid.
I have?
All I have seen is three people give thier thoughts on the matter, and listed credentials. Which, may or may not all be a load of horseshit.
Which, amazingly enough, was enough for you to DISCREDIT me. How can you confirm thier opinions, by thier "say so", yet disprove me, because all I had was "My say so"
And you never proved jack shit, sparky. You ran out of ideas, and ran for help.
quote:
Nobody really understood why Tal NSFW!! wrote:
... They do not use stainless steel, NOT because it is too brittle, but because the folding actually weakens the metal, and as such, does not gain the benefits from folding that carbon steel does?
...
I simply thought it wasn't used because it work hardens and will shatter after a few good hits.
Maybe I am rembering wrong, but I could have sworn you were makeing Mail at one point? or doing blacksmithing yourself.
He seems very well-spoken and intelligent, and he's being very civil about the whole thing. Furthermore, he seems to really know what he's talking about.
quote:
Zephyer Kyuukaze stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Am I the only one who really likes this Ian Benjamin guy?He seems very well-spoken and intelligent, and he's being very civil about the whole thing. Furthermore, he seems to really know what he's talking about.
I don't have a problem with him either. At least he's seemed to keep his cool and try to explain things out and not resort to name-calling as some of us can't seem to help doing all the time.... 
Sorry Tal, Id like to say you owned, but I haven't seen anything from you but unfounded insults and lack of back up of anything you have said beside info that could be easily googled. (And you continue to dodge this point by saying Id kick your ass if I saw you! + I know about alotta stuff!)
I just wanna see who is truly correct because this is interesting stuff. So Tal, care to put up some *Actual* credentials? (Places of Study and Teachers so on and so forth) and Ian, you said you will give addresses and phone numbers? Lets hear them! I live in Japan and I will personally go see and talk to your teachers to see if you are full of shit, hell... Ill even talk come talk to you if you are still here.
Lets see who is actually full of shit and who's not.
You keep what you kill, that is the Evercrest way. Sean fucked around with this message on 06-15-2004 at 11:21 AM.
It's not something people hear about.
Maho, the argument is done and everyone is getting along now. Get with the times, maybe they wont lynch you if you stop trying to gloat.
And seniority does have a facter to it. For instance, if it came right down to it, people here would most likely side with the person they know (provided that person isnt a total ass) and would expell the one they dont know.
Your friends may be some damn good swordsmen or whatever it is. However, we see people who come here, and while they have intelligent arguements, the spouting of foreign style names smacks of trying to sound superior.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets annoyed at all the 'trendy' use of Japanese words in normal english conversation, and while it may not be intended like that, it still comes off as someone trying to be Japanese.
Personally, the Japanese language annoys me. So therefor, his first posts annoyed me.
But he's cool. I like him.
It kinda looks bad on you when someone you introduced is getting a better reception for the reason that he stopped bitching when we stopped bitching.
And am I the only one who prefers European weapons to Japanese? Give me a bastard sword over a khukri any day!
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Azakias said:
....
And am I the only one who prefers European weapons to Japanese? Give me a bastard sword over a khukri any day!
Nope, And I belive a European Knight would make a Samurai his bitch in no time flat. Peter fucked around with this message on 06-15-2004 at 11:37 AM.
Does that make him the master of all archaic weapons knowledge? No. But it does make him, upon independent (and, arguably, hostile) inquiry into the matter of archaic weaponry a bit more feasible. Maho's buddies may be very knowledgeable in their areas of expertise, but I think even they would stipulate "your results may vary".
As for the European vs Eastern weapon thing...keep in mind that weapons rarely develop to fit a nonexistent void. In other words, if the rocks on the beach got up and started lumbering after us, we have the technology to do some serious rapid destruction, but we don't keep stuff in a standing arsenal just in case the rocks rise up against us. Dig?
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Zephyer Kyuukaze had this to say about Pirotess:
Am I the only one who really likes this Ian Benjamin guy?He seems very well-spoken and intelligent, and he's being very civil about the whole thing. Furthermore, he seems to really know what he's talking about.
I whole heartily agree. This guy is great, and has given me actual information, and we have the same first name!
quote:
This insanity brought to you by Azakias:
And am I the only one who prefers European weapons to Japanese? Give me a bastard sword over a khukri any day!
I think khukri's are not Japanese.
quote:
DarkDragoon wrote:
Ian, you said you will give addresses and phone numbers? Lets hear them! I live in Japan and I will personally go see and talk to your teachers to see if you are full of shit, hell... Ill even talk come talk to you if you are still here.Lets see who is actually full of shit and who's not.
No problem, I can email you the information if this is permitted as per forum rules. I don't believe I'm allowed to post them publicly, can anyone varify this before I send information via email?
Everything ever taught to you by Jim Bob of Billy Bob's Black Belt Emporium is a lie. Now, tie your obi UNDER the hakama and try again.
