quote:
Blah blah blah Maho blah blah blah...
That'd be the covenant, not the law. The first convenant was broken long before Christ and people had stopped following it, but the covenant and the law are not the same thing. I suppose I could be wrong about this, but I find that hard to believe when faced with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Why would God suddenly change his tune? Doesn't make sense from where I'm standing. This is all deviating from the topic, see above.
It wasn't the fact that they were having buttsex; it was the fact that they were taking people and FORCING them into buttsex.
There's a subtle difference. I'll give you a few minutes to notice it.
Okay.
Ready yet? Right.
Letting gays marry each other has absolutely no economical, social, or any other bearing on basically anything else you, or other morally opposed people like you stand for.
You can still be burning homos at the stake, you'll just have one extra to deal with. 
quote:
Maho got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
Yes, I have read the Bible. Once again, the point is not to debate my POV on this, y'all know where I stand. The point here is to find out what the possible legal and economic effects are if it is made legal. I want info, not debate on my POV.
There are no real negative legal or economic effects if gay marriage is made legal, that is why no one is discussing it.
Also, I think most here would agree that you have every right to disagree with gay marriage. You also have to recognize your disagreement is solely based on your religious belief and religious beliefs shouldn't dictate laws. Zair fucked around with this message on 05-31-2004 at 02:47 AM.
quote:
Maho probably says this to all the girls:
Yes, I have read the Bible. Once again, the point is not to debate my POV on this, y'all know where I stand. The point here is to find out what the possible legal and economic effects are if it is made legal. I want info, not debate on my POV.
how the hell do you want hard numbers, thats like saying i demand to know who wins the 2048 superbowl, and i want to know their complete roster, and by how many points they win, and how they score each of those points, but i dont want to here who you think is going to win
quote:
Mog said this about your mom:
Huge difrence their in that maradon "forcing"his veiw on you benifits a group (homosexuals) while doing aboslutly no harm to those who dont agree (you and yo mama)on the other hand the belief you are trying to force not only doesnt benifit any group, but restricts a group of poeple from partaking in something that you are (legaly speaking) privlaged enough to indulge in
in short
allowing gay marage - win/no effect situation
banning gay mariage - lose/no effect situation
I'd go along with you but for one thing, you haven't backed up this point. That's what I'm trying to establish here. What are the effects and I want as concrete of facts as can be gathered. A lot y'all EC'ers seem pretty well informed so I figured I'd pose the question here. It seems I may have been wrong, however...
All comments made while I was typing this are duly noted, my request remains Maho fucked around with this message on 05-31-2004 at 02:49 AM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Maho's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
I want concrete facts
quote:
how the hell do you want hard numbers, thats like saying i demand to know who wins the 2048 superbowl, and i want to know their complete roster, and by how many points they win, and how they score each of those points, but i dont want to here who you think is going to win
quote:
Maho was listening to Cher while typing:
I always took Sodom and Gomorrah to be pretty clear indicators. What is this second part you speak of? Christ said he didn't come to abolish the law but to bring forth a new covenant. I keep hearing people talk about this but they bother to explain it.
BZZT... I've yelled at you on this one before... It seem you have no full understanding what the angels did for what reason. The reason they burned Sodom and Gomorrah was because of unhospitality. The other stuff was just secondary that happened to be happening at the time of a festival. Going back and doing more research... if you want to look upon the rest of the world at the time, there was more than enough "free love" happenin. The main reason it was 'looked down upon' was for the cleanliness factor of the day, which was near 0, but at least they made sense not to eat food with the hand they used to clean their shit from.
Remember all you've seen is the baptist POV which is a scoch bigger than a pin head. I've willingly talked to ministers, rabbis, and clerics upon this matter. It helps to be informed.
I've talked with my ministers and others upon that and have come to an agreement that what was written then had different meaning than what you put to it now only to secure your own beliefs.
*pants* too late to be doing this type of thing.
quote:
All comments made while I was typing this are duly noted, my request remains
quote:
...as concrete of facts as can be gathered.
If you're gonna quote me, do it right. I know there's not likely to be anything really concrete available yet. Thus I said, as concrete as possible. There may be some substantiated stuff available, but I've no idea what sources to consider reliable.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
So quoth Razor:
BZZT... I've yelled at you on this one before... It seem you have no full understanding what the angels did for what reason. The reason they burned Sodom and Gomorrah was because of unhospitality. The other stuff was just secondary that happened to be happening at the time of a festival. Going back and doing more research... if you want to look upon the rest of the world at the time, there was more than enough "free love" happenin. The main reason it was 'looked down upon' was for the cleanliness factor of the day, which was near 0, but at least they made sense not to eat food with the hand they used to clean their shit from.Remember all you've seen is the baptist POV which is a scoch bigger than a pin head. I've willingly talked to ministers, rabbis, and clerics upon this matter. It helps to be informed.
I've talked with my ministers and others upon that and have come to an agreement that what was written then had different meaning than what you put to it now only to secure your own beliefs.
*pants* too late to be doing this type of thing.
It's beside the point. I'm asking for information here. I disagree with it, that's that. Whether I have a basis for it or not is really my business. I personally don't like the idea but I'm not forcing anyone to follow me on this.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Maho stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
So it's constitutional to force your (and a number others') personal conviction that gay marriage is ok on people like myself and my mom? I fail to see how that's different. Granted, there is a difference in stance, but it really does amount to the same thing. Getting back to the subject, the question is not what I believe or what my mom believes and why, it's what effect will it have on our lives and the lives others who feel the same way we do. So if you will kindly stick with the subject at hand...
They're not forcing that on you. It has been said a few times in this thread that the marriages that homosexuals are entering into in Massachusetts (I probably spelled that wrong) are most likely NOT Christian in nature, if they're religious at all. Marriage is NOT exclusively Christian.
Nobody is forcing you to believe that homosexual marriage is morally right. You have EVERY RIGHT to continue believing that it is wrong. Nobody is going to threaten your right to believe that. HOWEVER. That does not mean that your beliefs, even if the majority of the country agree with you, should govern the lives of the remaining populous. There are probably plenty of things that the government finds legal that Christians disagree with. They government isn't FORCING you to do them.
Let's say that prostitution was somehow nationally legalized. Of course, there'd be an uproar from Christian leaders. Ignoring that... is the government then FORCING you to take advantage the new opportunities, or even to just believe that it's morally right to partake of a prostitute? No. They're not. They're just saying that you won't get arrested for a partaking of a bit of cheap, disease-ridden poonani. It's kinda the same thing here. If gay marriage is legalized, it doesn't affect you or your mom AT ALL. You can sit and home and shake your fists and condemn those degenerate fags all day and that's FINE, but you can't expect the government to bow to your whims, even if the majority of the country agreees with you.
Keep this in mind: Marriage does NOT necessarily equal to Christian marriage. If I were to marry a guy, I can guarantee you I wouldn't even THINK of doing it through the Church, even if it WERE an option. I'm sure there are homosexuals that would like to be married in a Christian environment. However, I doubt that most homosexual couples are seeking any kind of religious marriage at all. They just want the same privelages that heterosexual married couples get, none of which have ANYTHING to do with the Christian Church. Kegwen fucked around with this message on 05-31-2004 at 02:57 AM.
quote:
Verily, Kegwen doth proclaim:
They're not forcing that on you. It has been said a few times in this thread that the marriages that homosexuals are entering into in Massachusetts (I probably spelled that wrong) are most likely NOT Christian in nature, if they're religious at all. Marriage is NOT exclusively Christian.Nobody is forcing you to believe that homosexual marriage is morally right. You have EVERY RIGHT to continue believing that it is wrong. Nobody is going to threaten your right to believe that. HOWEVER. That does not mean that your beliefs, even if the majority of the country agree with you, should govern the lives of the remaining populous. There are probably plenty of things that the government finds legal that Christians disagree with. They government isn't FORCING you to do them.
Let's say that prostitution was somehow nationally legalized. Of course, there'd be an uproar from Christian leaders. Ignoring that... is the government then FORCING you to take advantage the new opportunities, or even to just believe that it's morally right to partake of a prostitute? No. They're not. They're just saying that you won't get arrested for a partaking of a bit of cheap, disease-ridden poonani. It's kinda the same thing here. If gay marriage is legalized, it doesn't affect you or your mom AT ALL. You can sit and home and shake your fists and condemn those degenerate fags all day and that's FINE, but you can't expect the government to bow to your whims, even if the majority of the country agreees with you.
Keep this in mind: Marriage does NOT equal to Christian marriage. If I were to marry a guy, I can guarantee you I wouldn't even THINK of doing it through the Church, even if it WERE an option. I'm sure there are homosexuals that would like to be married in a Christian environment, but I doubt that many of them are seeking a religious marriage at all. They just want the same privelages that heterosexual married couples get, none of which have ANYTHING to do with the Christian Church.
Ok folks, read the other posts before posting. Actually, no, don't bother. Just post what information you know. If you don't have anything useful to contribute, don't post here. My stance is established, my reasons are my own. Now, if we can just get some info, that'd be nice. If there's none to be had, say so. Aside from that, there need not be any discussion.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Maho who doth quote:
So it's constitutional to force your (and a number others') personal conviction that gay marriage is ok on people like myself and my mom?
Yes. And do you want to know why?
BECAUSE THE EXISTENCE OF GAY MARRIAGE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO LEGAL BEARING WHATSOEVER ON YOUR LIFE. It has NO BEARING on the quality of your life or the life of anyone you know, it has NO BEARING on the life of ANYONE EXCEPT GAY PEOPLE and unless you can prove that the existence of gay marriage SOMEHOW harms you in ANY way more than the existence of, say, interracial marriage, you can't say shit.
quote:
Maho had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Ok folks, read the other posts before posting. Actually, no, don't bother. Just post what information you know. If you don't have anything useful to contribute, don't post here. My stance is established, my reasons are my own. Now, if we can just get some info, that'd be nice. If there's none to be had, say so. Aside from that, there need not be any discussion.
Hi. I said that it will have no effect on you or your mother. If you continue on that train of thought, you'd come to the realization that I believe there will be NO economic effects. Unless, of course, some stupid shitfaced religious leader organizes something nationwide that will affect the economy. He could then point to that as the beginning of some HORRIBLE CRISIS all because the government is allowing those damn degenerates to marry.
Realistically though, there shouldn't be any problem. At all. (edit 
No, I take that back. I'll have to listen to all the bullshit about people fucking WHINING for months about something that doesn't actually affect them AT ALL. I hate moral police. (/edit)
Oh, the fact that you believe that legalizing something is forcing you to believe in it is still ridiculous. Just thought you should know. Kegwen fucked around with this message on 05-31-2004 at 03:09 AM.
quote:
Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Maho who doth quote:
Now, if we can just get some info, that'd be nice.
Look who's talking! You're the one who can't provide a single reason NOT to allow gay marriage apart from the fact that you disagree with it.
quote:
Check out the big brain on Maradon!!
Look who's talking! You're the one who can't provide a single reason NOT to allow gay marriage apart from the fact that you disagree with it.
I'm looking for information so I can make an informed decision one way or the other, thank you very much. Now if you'll just take your bullshitting elsewhere, we'll get on with it.
quote:
Snoota had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Except since they're still illegal, the information you seek does not exist. Except to say that there are millions and millions of straight couples who are married without the economy falling into a disaster over it, so it's safe to assume a few thousand gay couples wouldn't throw everything for a loop.
Nice, someone actually paid attention to the topic. I thank you. I figured that, with Massachusetts allowing, there had to be a few reliable prediction. I was think along those same lines. Social Security is fucked anyways so I couldn't really see how it'd be a problem economically. I dunno, I just figured that, as is usually the case, there had to be someone around with better info than me. Maho fucked around with this message on 05-31-2004 at 03:12 AM.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Check out the big brain on Maho!
Nice, someone actually paid attention to the topic. I thank you. I figured that, with Massachusetts allowing, there had to be a few reliable prediction. I was think along those same lines. Social Security is fucked anyways so I couldn't really see how it'd be a problem economically. I dunno, I just figured that, as is usually the case, there had to be someone around with better info than me.
Mog said that before he did.
Jackass.
Denying gays the right to marry denies them all those rights that are listed, because they don't have the same religion as you.
Allowing gays to marry doesn't truly affect you at all.
The logical stance on the issue should be clear.
quote:
Kegwen stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Mog said that before he did.Jackass.
yeha i ntocited tahtt too btu ym brian hutrde whne tring to reed eit
quote:
We were all impressed when Zair wrote:
So, based on the info I posted above....Denying gays the right to marry denies them all those rights that are listed, because they don't have the same religion as you.
Allowing gays to marry doesn't truly affect you at all.
The logical stance on the issue should be clear.
It didn't really show any possible cons, but useful nonetheless. Based on that, I don't really see any problems, but I'd still like to see any projected, possible problems this could cause. Thank you for sticking to the topic.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
x--MahoO-('-'Q) :
I'm looking for information so I can make an informed decision one way or the other, thank you very much. Now if you'll just take your bullshitting elsewhere, we'll get on with it.
No, you see, the trouble is that you're not looking for legitimate information at all. You're looking for someone who can come up with hard evidence that gay marriage is evil - you've already made your decision. We've been telling you incessantly that the evidence you're looking for does not exist.
quote:
Maho had this to say about pies:
It didn't really show any possible cons, but useful nonetheless. Based on that, I don't really see any problems, but I'd still like to see any projected, possible problems this could cause. Thank you for sticking to the topic.
It is great that you would like to see possible cons, but none seem to exist. You can either reevaluate your opinion based on the information provided through this thread, or simply stick to your convictions and keep seeking phantom evidence to support it.
Do you realize that you are essentially saying you will not consider that gay marriage should be made legal until you are given clear evidence to show that it should not?
Do you also realize that you can be morally opposed to gay marriage and homosexuality in general, and still recognize that they should be able to legally marry anyhow. Zair fucked around with this message on 05-31-2004 at 03:22 AM.
quote:
Maradon! had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
No, you see, the trouble is that you're not looking for legitimate information at all. You're looking for someone who can come up with hard evidence that gay marriage is evil - you've already made your decision. We've been telling you incessantly that the evidence you're looking for does not exist.
Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not looking for proof that gay marriage is evil, that is just my personal conviction. However, said conviction is not a good thing to base a political decision on. Thus, I need information to consider. If you'd bother to read some of the other posts, you might've noticed that some of said information does indeed exist.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Maho spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not looking for proof that gay marriage is evil, that is just my personal conviction. However, said conviction is not a good thing to base a political decision on. Thus, I need information to consider. If you'd bother to read some of the other posts, you might've noticed that some of said information does indeed exist.
It's not putting words in your mouth; it's saying what you're beating around the bush about.
This whole thread smacks of you trying to find other homophobes to find evidence that gay marriage is evil so you can start an otherwise-doomed plight to try and convert other people.
quote:
Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Tron:
It's not putting words in your mouth; it's saying what you're beating around the bush about.This whole thread smacks of you trying to find other homophobes to find evidence that gay marriage is evil so you can start an otherwise-doomed plight to try and convert other people.
Not what I'm after. Like I said, it's evil in my eyes no matter what evidence is presented. Thing is, I do have to vote at some point and I'd rather know more about this before I do. I won't bother trying to convert anyone, not my way. It is indeed putting words in mouth and even other intent in my words. My views are not the point here, those have been established and done with and they're not changing. The point here is that I don't know what ramifications this could have, so I figured I'd ask around.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
x--MahoO-('-'Q) :
If you'd bother to read some of the other posts, you might've noticed that some of said information does indeed exist.
Strange, I have read all the other posts and they all state that gay marriage has absolutely no demonstrable impact on anyone other than gay people at all 
quote:
Maradon! spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Strange, I have read all the other posts and they all state that gay marriage has absolutely no demonstrable impact on anyone other than gay people at all
So the consensus seems to be based on the information presented. Still, I wait to see if anything else comes forth. The more info, the better.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It always made me snicker when he said to her: "Jane, you ignorant slut."
quote:
x--MahoO-('-'Q) :
So the consensus seems to be based on the information presented. Still, I wait to see if anything else comes forth. The more info, the better.
Isn't seeking information to support an argument for a law that you can't even argue to be legal under the constitution a little moot?
quote:
Blah blah blah Maradon! blah blah blah...
Isn't seeking information to support an argument for a law that you can't even argue to be legal under the constitution a little moot?
Isn't saying something that has absolutely no impact on you in any way, shape or form whatsoever is evil, no matter how many good, logical arguments tell you otherwise kind of.. oh,
You know, stupid doesn't fit there. Moronic is too nice, too. Somebody give me a word like stupid to put there, so I can laugh at you, call you evil, and put stupid there anyway.
quote:
There was much rejoicing when Trent said this:
Anyone else ever see those old SNL's where Jane Curtain and.. Bill Murry I think, were the newscasters.It always made me snicker when he said to her: "Jane, you ignorant slut."
I grew up on Norm MacDonald and Colin Quinn as the Weekend Update anchors =/. I'm not that old school.
If what you were referring to was even Weekend Update
quote:
Delphi Aegis probably says this to all the girls:
Isn't saying something that has absolutely no impact on you in any way, shape or form whatsoever is evil, no matter how many good, logical arguments tell you otherwise kind of.. oh,
His god says it is evil. Religious justification is enough for many people, including many on this board. Whether or not he thinks it is evil is not what is the issue, really. Zair fucked around with this message on 05-31-2004 at 03:44 AM.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Maradon! said:
Isn't seeking information to support an argument for a law that you can't even argue to be legal under the constitution a little moot?
Well yeah, but do I have to count and quote for you how many times I've said I'm not gathering information to support my position? I've heard that it could have bad effects and I've heard that it could good effects. I've also heard it could have no effect whatsoever. Why not try and find out? While I may be decided on this personally, I'm undecided politically. My personal opinion has little bearing on reality but my political opinion decides how I vote. I think even you can appreciate the necessity of checking things out first.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Check out the big brain on Delphi Aegis!
Isn't saying something that has absolutely no impact on you in any way, shape or form whatsoever is evil, no matter how many good, logical arguments tell you otherwise kind of.. oh,You know, stupid doesn't fit there. Moronic is too nice, too. Somebody give me a word like stupid to put there, so I can laugh at you, call you evil, and put stupid there anyway.
Vacuous(sp?)
But seriously, there really won't be any way to provide info when none really exists. The only con to gay marriage becoming legal would be the uproar from the religious sects that think it's evil to fuck a guy in the ass. From glancing at that PDF that was posted earlier in the thread, there will be a slight (nearly un-noticable) drop in federal and state taxes from transfers of money between gay couples. From what was posted in that PDF, when one gay guy dies, and leaves his boyfriend everything even tho they weren't married or in a civil union, the boyfriend got that shit taxed up the ass by the state and federal government, and jack shit if the dead dude didn't put him in his will.
Honestly, I think gay marriage should be legal. I really look at it like inter-ratial marriage a few decades ago. Not quite the same, but very similar. It really isn't going to have an economic impact on society for the buttfuckers among us to get hitched because they're in love. It's not like they want to do it to piss people off. Which alot of people seem to think is the reason they want to get married.
Anyway, it's like 1 something in the morning. I'm gonna stay up for a bit more, and watch this thread for any further development. I'm only staying up this late so I'll be ready to close down my movie theater tomorrow. I could hope to get out of it anywhere between 11:30pm and 3am, so I'm kind of preparing for the worst.
Disclaimer: I'm just kidding, I love all living things.
The fastest draw in the Crest.
"The Internet is MY critical thinking course." -Maradon
"Gambling for the husband, an abortion for the wife and fireworks for the kids they chose to keep? Fuck you, Disneyland. The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation is the happiest place on Earth." -JooJooFlop
And as was said, no pastor/minister/priest of a private organization can be sued and made to do something against the mandates of that organization. If it's something related to the government, yes. So a justice of the peace refusing to perform a gay marriage could have repercussions visited upon his or her head. But not a member of a private organization. Jania Arindelil fucked around with this message on 05-31-2004 at 02:18 PM.
quote:
Snoota said this about your mom:
yeha i ntocited tahtt too btu ym brian hutrde whne tring to reed eit
hey, all my posts in this thread have been fairly typoless!
