Community service != volenteering. I made the mistake of caling it volenteering. They didn't.
And, hes also going to repleal the tax cuts Bush gave the huge companies who outsource jobs, and he's going after companies who put allthier money in Bermuda so they don't have to pay taxes.
THAT'S how he's going to pay for it.
If he wants to create a program that does all this and is voluntary, that's fine. Let people participate or not as they choose to. But not this. And what do they plan to do to folks who decide not to take part? Deny them the chance at college education? Throw 'em in jail? Force them to skip to Canada?
I bet I can guess. 
It also indicates that the mandatory stuff in HS has nothing to do with the college tuition. The college tuition specifically comes from extra service. Though it gives no real details on how that service is met.
Tuition also does not have to be used for college, can be used for loan repayment if you do 2 years after college. Or if you elect not to got to college can be used for other things.
(Edit, added last paragraph) [ 03-12-2004: Message edited by: Taylen ]
Where is he planning to get the chicken that lays all those golden eggs? He's going to cut the deficit in half, secure Social Security, and make the US independent of Middle Eastern oil in ten years? Is he gonna go around and round up all the SUVs?
Sorry, John, I'm going to have to vote stright party line here. Four more years of George W. for me.
quote:
Azizza had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Yeah because we were much better off with someone like Reno in office where we had the ATF and FBI killing US citizens who were found to have broken no laws or were entraped.If people wonder why I hate Democrats so much I always point them to Waco and Ruby Ridge.
At least he's-...no, actually, I don't even care. I'm not American. 
If I have to be forced to do community service again, then... That would suck.
Oh yeah... And uhhh... Go Kerry! [ 03-12-2004: Message edited by: Broadzilla ]
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Callalron stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Well, fuck, why not bring back the draft while he's at it? Force everyone to give up a couple years of their life. Oh, that's right, because Kerry hates the military (and intelligence services), that's why.If he wants to create a program that does all this and is voluntary, that's fine. Let people participate or not as they choose to. But not this. And what do they plan to do to folks who decide not to take part? Deny them the chance at college education? Throw 'em in jail? Force them to skip to Canada?
.. Uhh.
You could descide not to do it and then pay for college normally?
there's nothing saying you have to. It's another option which is especially viable to the economically disadvantaged.
It's voluntary.
The ghigh school stuff IS ALREADY IN EFFECT IN SEVERAL STATES. NO ONE REALLY BITCHES ABOUT IT. How can I make that clear? Just adding it to the schools that don't have it isn't some totally radical out of the blue thing - many schools already have it. So what's the big mucking deal?
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Gikk had this to say about (_|_):
.. Uhh.You could descide not to do it and then pay for college normally?
there's nothing saying you have to. It's another option which is especially viable to the economically disadvantaged.
It's voluntary.
The ghigh school stuff IS ALREADY IN EFFECT IN SEVERAL STATES. NO ONE REALLY BITCHES ABOUT IT. How can I make that clear? Just adding it to the schools that don't have it isn't some totally radical out of the blue thing - many schools already have it. So what's the big mucking deal?
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As part of his 100 day plan to change America, John Kerry will propose a comprehensive service plan that includes requiring mandatory service for high school students and four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service.
Sounds involuntary to me.
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Mightion Defensor had this to say about Tron:
Sounds involuntary to me.
There are two different plans there. There is mandatory High School service to graduate, then there is two additional years of service you can do to completely pay for a state college (awesome deal). Presumably you do those two years while in college.
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Zair impressed everyone with:
There are two different plans there. There is mandatory High School service to graduate, then there is two additional years of service you can do to completely pay for a state college (awesome deal). Presumably you do those two years while in college.
With the fact that the first is involuntary.
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Mr. Parcelan attempted to be funny by writing:
With the fact that the first is involuntary.
And the other fact is that he's taking a state-implemented thing and turning it nationwide.
Stop harping on the same fucking point, please.
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Delphi Aegis had this to say about Tron:
And the other fact is that he's taking a state-implemented thing and turning it nationwide.Stop harping on the same fucking point, please.
That's the issue here, dumbass: the fact that it's involuntary and thus a violation of rights.
I'll harp on it as much as I please. Don't start crying because you can't handle the issue. In fact, just get out of the thread before you embarass yourself.
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Mr. Parcelan Model 2000 was programmed to say:
With the fact that the first is involuntary.
Right. Well, unless you don't want to graduate from that high school. You could probably still go to private school or something.
The point, however, is that it seems Callalron and Mightion think that both plans are one and same, meaning that you HAVE to do two years of service to get college money you might not want.
this quote would make you think that:
"Well, fuck, why not bring back the draft while he's at it? Force everyone to give up a couple years of their life. Oh, that's right, because Kerry hates the military (and intelligence services), that's why.
If he wants to create a program that does all this and is voluntary, that's fine. Let people participate or not as they choose to. But not this. And what do they plan to do to folks who decide not to take part? Deny them the chance at college education? Throw 'em in jail? Force them to skip to Canada?"
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Mr. Parcelan enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
That's the issue here, dumbass: the fact that it's involuntary and thus a violation of rights.I'll harp on it as much as I please. Don't start crying because you can't handle the issue. In fact, just get out of the thread before you embarass yourself.
If it's a "violation of rights", then why hasn't massive outcry been heard from the states where it's already implemented?
Kerry is taking a proven state-level requirement for High Schools and putting it national. Lots of laws have been made like this.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Duck Tales:
That's the issue here, dumbass: the fact that it's involuntary and thus a violation of rights.
It is really simple. Setting requirements for high school graduation is not a violation of rights.
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ACES! Another post by Delphi Aegis:
If it's a "violation of rights", then why hasn't massive outcry been heard from the states where it's already implemented?Kerry is taking a proven state-level requirement for High Schools and putting it national. Lots of laws have been made like this.
There's a difference between something that has been around for years and something that is about to be thrust onto the masses suddenly.
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Azizza had this to say about John Romero:
Go, Go, Socialism
Hey if socialism gets kids in college that never really have a chance...
Seriously, if I had the chance to do some community service for two years, and get 4 years of continueing education, I would have jumped at the chance.
My huge regret has been not being able to afford the last 3 years. My main anger is the lack of help and huge blockways when seeking help I got. I don't wish anyone to go through that shit.
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There was much rejoicing when Mightion Defensor said this:
Keep in mind too, that if someone avoids the mandatory high school service, they'll likely be in jail and can't take advantage of the college offer.
Strange. No one who avoided the mandatory high school service in my high school ended up in jail.
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Mightion Defensor's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Keep in mind too, that if someone avoids the mandatory high school service, they'll likely be in jail and can't take advantage of the college offer.
And they'll not have a high school diploma.. So they couldn't go to college anyway. 
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Azizza had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Go, Go, Socialism
Tell me Azizza, how does it feel for a centrist, or at least slightly right of centrist to be having a fair chance of being elected over there? 
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Mr. Parcelan tried to impress everyone with:
That's the issue here, dumbass
Save the name calling for flame threads, fuckface.
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Drysart thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Save the name calling for flame threads, fuckface.
Okay boss.
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From the book of Mightion Defensor, chapter 3, verse 16:
Keep in mind too, that if someone avoids the mandatory high school service, they'll likely be in jail and can't take advantage of the college offer.
You know, like it's that big of a deal. EVERYTHING that's a high school requirement is something you are 'forced' to do. You live with it.
It's not like we're telling them they have to do it for 4 years, uncompensated. Hell, if it's THAT much of an issue, you can get your GED instead.
If kids really want to volunteer, they will. Good on those that do. They deserve the praise they get for it. However, no one should look down at those who don't want to participate.
And I'm sorry, but "no volunteering, no diploma" is just a totally bullshit stance for the school system to take. If school's are willing to cut the gym requirement and not force people do something as basic as move their fat and lazy asses around a track once a week. You want to put that volunteer time to better use? Send them to study hall so they can learn to fucking read and write like they're supposed to be able to do to get that diploma.
Left: OMG being forced into labor IS NOT THAT BAD PEOPLE, my private school made me do it, you all are lazy, stop bitching about the removal of your rights to live free, its just the same point over and over again, its not that big of a deal.
Right: ... fucking batshit socialists.
But seriously folks, take a study of your history before you shreik over politics, if I have to I'll dig out my political science book and put the term for "presidents that denounce what the current pres is doing just to get in office then do the exact same shit and never do what they promised" here for you.
if ya think Kerry is different, I'm gonna laugh at you. Plain and simple.
As for those of you that think not wanting to be forced into something is "lazy", thats tough, welcome to america, the very core of this country is having (for the most part) the freedom to do what you want, how you want, or NOT having to do what you don't want to do, however you DON'T want to do it. Kerry enforcing public service is on par with banning abortion or gay marrage, its outrageos, and its the removal of a freedom. The only thing you're doing is shouting the same unending campaign rhetoric, over and over and over and over again. Please just stop? Please?
For you non-americans who feel you have some sense of whats going on here, enough to judge how we should live compared to how you live, please shut it. You are not american, you don't live the way we do, nor do we live the way you do, I don't tell you how to be german/swedish/french/australian/canadian, don't tell me how to be american, it is our right to decide our destiny, and as such, only our opinions carry weight in the matter.
Furthermore, lets face it, Kerry is blowing smoke out of his ass, untill most Presidents get into office, they have no idea how things financially go, presidents promise deficite cuts, and put us further into debt, as of right now, I see our economy on the up again, I don't see a dead stock market, and I get a fat fucking check back from the taxes I paid. If you -want- to pay more to the goverment, PM me and I'll find you a nice gov sponsored charity, and you can induce self tax as much as you want.
Anything else I feel like saying, has already been said, thank you and good night.
edit: cleared up some thoughtlines, do not rant at 7:22 am, you think more smartly than you type also note this is more a less political summery, thats going into just this thread, because its here and convenient. [ 03-14-2004: Message edited by: CBTao ]
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Everyone wondered WTF when CBTao wrote:
For you non-americans who feel you have some sense of whats going on here, enough to judge how we should live compared to how you live, please shut it. You are not american, you don't live the way we do, nor do we live the way you do, I don't tell you how to be german/swedish/french/australian/canadian, don't tell me how to be american, it is our right to decide our destiny, and as such, only our opinions carry weight in the matter.[/small]
Most western cultures are a variation of the same system, one has better healthcare, the second a better justice system, the third lower taxes. Perhaps if the difference were akin to the one between living on a moon base in the year 3120 and living in 1855 London this would be a point but I simply don't buy the idea that the difference in culture is so vast that a person from one point is unable to comprehend the other. It's the 'you're not black you can't undestand our plight'-argument in a different package.
Also "deciding our destiny" is a rather dramatic take on the question of weather existing state graduation requirements should be elevated to federal level.
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Callalron said this about your mom:
The thing is, in my mind, school's job is to TEACH you. I fail to see how farming the kids out as slave labor qualifies as teaching them anything. Heck, while they're out "volunteering" why not have the run personal errands for the faculty too? You know, wash the car, mow the lawn, clean out the gutters. Most teachers don't make that much to start with, and freed of those tasks, they'd have more time to grade papers and review lesson plans.If kids really want to volunteer, they will. Good on those that do. They deserve the praise they get for it. However, no one should look down at those who don't want to participate.
And I'm sorry, but "no volunteering, no diploma" is just a totally bullshit stance for the school system to take. If school's are willing to cut the gym requirement and not force people do something as basic as move their fat and lazy asses around a track once a week. You want to put that volunteer time to better use? Send them to study hall so they can learn to fucking read and write like they're supposed to be able to do to get that diploma.
Agreed.
Mandatory community service is a punishment handed out for breaking the law. When did growing up become a crime? If they're being punished, why not just stick 'em in jail for a few days? If they're innocent and not being punished, then why are they being forced to do this?
Sure, some people may get some greater lesson out of this, but some people also get a greater lesson out of jail time too. This punishment is uncalled for.
