Two widely disparate questions for your consideration and response!

1. Car Wars. I am car shopping. I have a budget of no more than $15K, it must be a '99 or newer, a V6, a sedan or SUV, and no more that 69999.99 miles on it. Thoughts on a good purchase*? I'm currently leaning towards a Sebring convertible. I have two months to shop.

*This is not an excuse for you to tell me about your craptastic "sweet ride". Do not give me any cars outside these parameters.

2. Star Wars. What's the deal with the Chiss, the Empire of the Hand, and Thrawn? I am 6 books into NJO, and have read all of Zahn's books (including the new one). What are the Chiss fighting on the Rim? What's the relationship between them and the Empire of the Hand? Is Thrawn (albeit a clone) still out there? What really happened to Outbound Flight and why do the survivors blame the Jedi? These were spoilers and you probably shouldn't have read them.

As for the Chiss, I really haven't caught up to the NJO yet, still have a ways to go. Though I really want to read it, heard many good things about it.

And for your car, get a VW Passat! Or even better, the new Toureg (however you pronounce it). Its zee efficient German engineering

EDIT -- THE TOUREG COSTS $35K YOU SUCK

Your SW response however, requires a flame.

HEY ASSHAT I SAID IN MY POST I READ ALL THE BOOKS YOU DISCUSS AND THEN SOME. What I want is a synopsis of the story to see if I missed something, or if someone other than Zahn picked up the threads which is why the story seems a bit choppy to me.....

[ 03-03-2004: Message edited by: Gydyon ]

Depending upon your credit, or whether you are planning to pay cash or whatever.. you might be able to buy a brand new vehicle for less than what you specified, because of cash back offers that may be used towards the car.

However, buying brand new means depreciation as soon as you drive it off the lot. If you buy used, you are wise to learn the market for the area, because most dealers buy cars for cheap from auctions or as trade-ins and you will be paying much more than they did.

For instance, when I sold Pontiacs, we had a fleet of used vehicles that were low miles and only a yea old because they were used as rentals. We bought them for 5k a piece and were selling them at a sticker of 15k each. If we sold them for 10k we acted sad, like we are sure doing them a great favor, but we pocketed 5k.

Another thing to look into are Credit Union sales, sometimes dealers offer certain vehicles to credit union members at huge discounts. I never made any money off those.

I won't give you a specific car to look for, I think it's a personal thing. Researching Consumer Reports on the vehicle you have in mind is a good thing too.

Good luck!

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We were all impressed when Gydyon wrote:
HEY ASSHAT I SAID IN MY POST I READ ALL THE BOOKS YOU DISCUSS AND THEN SOME. What I want is a synopsis of the story to see if I missed something, or if someone other than Zahn picked up the threads which is why the story seems a bit choppy to me.....

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Heh I shall read them, and then come back with a witty retort (if I haven't forgotten by then)

might want to try ebay you can get a decent deal there if you are persistant.

I dont think that the seabring is a good choice chrysler makes crap cars. you are better off with a honda toyata mazda etc etc

mazda will be cheaper btw

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Verily, Somthor doth proclaim:
the new toureg is 40k

might want to try ebay you can get a decent deal there if you are persistant.

I dont think that the seabring is a good choice chrysler makes crap cars. you are better off with a honda toyata mazda etc etc

mazda will be cheaper btw

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I shudder to ask, and knowing the futility of such an endeavor:

Do you happen to have a basis for your contention that Chrysler makes crap cars, or are you blowing wind out of your ass?

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Burger probably says this to all the girls:
what's a US zip code in your general area for the purposes of perusing KBB.com looking for a new sweet ride for you?

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15219 Burger! If you use that, you are going above and beyond, and I take back everything I said about your alt pron account (although I still have it on ignore.... )

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Gydyon attempted to be funny by writing:
Thank you Nae. Because of depreciation, I will be buying a used car. But I appreciate the thoughts nonetheless.

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Sure!

You know, I used to know a guy in Arizona that would help people find the exact used vehicle they were looking for, for a fee. I can't remember what he called himself, but he was really nice and very helpful to his clients.

People would tell him exactly what they wanted and he would find it. He would get super bargains for them also, because he was buying them wholesale.

That's another way for you to go.. check your auto trader or whatever it's called there and see if you can find a guy like that.

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Nobody really understood why Nae wrote:
I grew up in the car business, and I have sold cars for years. I suggest that you do some internet shopping to find out the Kelley Blue Book value of different cars for your area.

Depending upon your credit, or whether you are planning to pay cash or whatever.. you might be able to buy a brand new vehicle for less than what you specified, because of cash back offers that may be used towards the car.

However, buying brand new means depreciation as soon as you drive it off the lot. If you buy used, you are wise to learn the market for the area, because most dealers buy cars for cheap from auctions or as trade-ins and you will be paying much more than they did.

For instance, when I sold Pontiacs, we had a fleet of used vehicles that were low miles and only a yea old because they were used as rentals. We bought them for 5k a piece and were selling them at a sticker of 15k each. If we sold them for 10k we acted sad, like we are sure doing them a great favor, but we pocketed 5k.

Another thing to look into are Credit Union sales, sometimes dealers offer certain vehicles to credit union members at huge discounts. I never made any money off those.

I won't give you a specific car to look for, I think it's a personal thing. Researching Consumer Reports on the vehicle you have in mind is a good thing too.

Good luck!

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KBB over values everything and isnt a really that great of a guide. best to see if you gan get the NADA book for your area and look at the trade in value shoot for that number or less. better yet if you a have a freind in the bussness see if you can get a recent grey book that shows waht the dealer prices are for used cars.

its odd that you and I have had a simular past, I ever mention I owned a used car lot ?

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Nae had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Sure!

You know, I used to know a guy in Arizona that would help people find the exact used vehicle they were looking for, for a fee. I can't remember what he called himself, but he was really nice and very helpful to his clients.

People would tell him exactly what they wanted and he would find it. He would get super bargains for them also, because he was buying them wholesale.

That's another way for you to go.. check your auto trader or whatever it's called there and see if you can find a guy like that.

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The terms of my financing require a franchise dealer, or else I would be using this sort of option. Thanks though!

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ACES! Another post by Nae:
Sure!

You know, I used to know a guy in Arizona that would help people find the exact used vehicle they were looking for, for a fee. I can't remember what he called himself, but he was really nice and very helpful to his clients.

People would tell him exactly what they wanted and he would find it. He would get super bargains for them also, because he was buying them wholesale.

That's another way for you to go.. check your auto trader or whatever it's called there and see if you can find a guy like that.

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an AUto broker, or a gypsy car dealer they genarly work under somone elses licence.

yeah thats a good idea if you can find one of them but rember alot of the cars at auction are someone elses headache that they couldnt sell or didnt wnat to sell and are dumping to become the new owners problem.

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And now, we sprinkle Gydyon liberally with Old Spice!
1. Car Wars. I am car shopping. I have a budget of no more than $15K, it must be a '99 or newer, a V6, a sedan or SUV, and no more that 69999.99 miles on it. Thoughts on a good purchase*? I'm currently leaning towards a Sebring convertible. I have two months to shop.

*This is not an excuse for you to tell me about your craptastic "sweet ride". Do not give me any cars outside these parameters.

---

Sebring convertible is a coupe, silly.

Something to keep in mind: Imports tend to hold their value much better than domestic cars.

A 2001 Honda Accord coupe with a V6 with about 50K miles would go for about $13K. A similarly equipped Maxima sedan would go for about 14, or in that neck of the woods. A Dodge Intrepid, similarly equipped, will be about $10,300 or so. You can count on having to pay more for SUVs, domestic or imported, just 'cuz.

For example, a loaded 2000 Ford Explorer might cost $12,500. A similarly equipped Pathfinder is about $17K.

Check used car prices yourself at Kelly Blue Book just to get an idea of price ranges.

My opinion? Go with the newest Dodge Intrepid you can afford. It's nice and big(you can fit five adults comfortably, and it has a huge trunk), accelerates well, goes good on the highway, gets great mileage(22 around town, 27 mpg at 80 miles an hour), has a nice, smooth ride, and looks halfway decent. A '99 Intrepid is my dad's daily driver, and he likes it a lot. Has awesome travelling range for long trips (~450 miles on a tank), if you need something for that. It's also OK in the snow, for a 2-wheel drive sedan.

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Gydyon was naked while typing this:
The terms of my financing require a franchise dealer, or else I would be using this sort of option. Thanks though!

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there are dealers on ebay who auction off cars. they will help you with the financing.

also there is the lease option

dont forget you can buy genarly at or near Dealers invoice saving alot.

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Somthor had this to say about Duck Tales:
the new toureg is 40k

might want to try ebay you can get a decent deal there if you are persistant.

I dont think that the seabring is a good choice chrysler makes crap cars. you are better off with a honda toyata mazda etc etc

mazda will be cheaper btw

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I have a small correction on your tense sir... chrysler MADE crap cars, in the 80's.

The big 3 had SEVERE reliability problems in the 80's, and as such, the imports gained popularity. However, they've struggled long and hard to get manufacturing and design straightened out and now they're producing cars that have quality that's extremely close or even slightly better than a similar import.

Check JD power and associates automotive reliability surveys if you don't trust me.

Also, a well respected New York statistics and surveys firm recently did a study comparing percieved quality against actual quality for automotive brands. The domestic brands all had better reliability than the surveyed masses expected, the high-end european cars were regarded as having slightly better quality than they truly do, and the asian imports enjoyed a HUGE percieved quality compared to their rather pedestrian actual quality. Which just shows how many uninformed idiots there are out there like somthor answering surveys.

And now, for the kicker: WHEN your car breaks (and they all do eventually) it's much cheaper to get domestic parts. So when repairs are just as frequent on either an import or a domestic, and the import is more expensive to repair, I know what I'm picking.

As well, why not help the local economy instead of bolstering one overseas?

And gyd, I'm perusing KBB now. What will you be using your new car for? Just running about town? Tripping? Hauling stuff? What's important to you? Fuel economy, or creature comforts, handling? Looks? For engine choices, are a straight 6 or a V8 also allowed?

[ 03-03-2004: Message edited by: Burger ]

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Burger stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
I have a small correction on your tense sir... chrysler MADE crap cars, in the 80's.

The big 3 had SEVERE reliability problems in the 80's, and as such, the imports gained popularity. However, they've struggled long and hard to get manufacturing and design straightened out and now they're producing cars that have quality that's extremely close or even slightly better than a similar import.

Check JD power and associates automotive reliability surveys if you don't trust me.

As well, why not help the local economy instead of bolstering one overseas?

And gyd, I'm perusing KBB now. What will you be using your new car for? Just running about town? Tripping? Hauling stuff? What's important to you? Fuel economy, or creature comforts, handling? Looks? For engine choices, are a straight 6 or a V8 also allowed?

---

actualy mr smarty the big three bought alot of the forigen cars makers. Volvo and Mazda are Ford chrysler is mercedes and mishabuisi (sp)

GM owns alot of suzuki and i think daewoo?

parts are not as expensive for my Merceds as american cars and the parts are genarly more availible than yours. of course its a older mercedes back whan that name actualy ment somthing.

Why do I say CHarysler makes lousy cars? maybe its a regional thing, the heat and the water here makes the CV boots rot and you end up replacing the joints every other year or so. Chrysler seems to be prone to it as well as they also seem to rust and have hardware issues paint not bonding properly to the metel etc et etc.

its all personal choice anyway get what you like, I am sure you will anyway.

The following information has been taken from Consumer Reports ’99 Buying Guide.

The cars listed below are considered to be unreliable used cars and, therefore, should be avoided if possible.

Buick Roadmaster ’96, Skylark ‘90

Cadillac Eldorado ’96, Seville ’92-93

Chevrolet Astro ’93-94 & ’96, S-10 Blazer ’90-94, Blazer ’95-96, K-Blazer ’93, Tahoe ’96, Camaro V6 ’95, Camaro V8 ’94-96, Caprice ’96, Cavalier ’91-92, ’94 & ’96, Corsica, Beretta ’90 & ’92-93, Lumina APV Van ’90-93 & ’96, Monte Carlo ’95-96, C1500 Pickup ’96, K1500 Pickup ’95-96, S-10 Pickup 4 ’91 & ’95-96, S-10 Pickup V6 4WD ’90-96, Sportvan V8 ’91-96, Suburban ’90-94

Chrysler Cirrus ’95-96, Concorde ’93-94, LeBaron Coupe/Convertible ’90-95, New Yorker Fifth Avenue ’93, New Yorker LHS ’94-95, Sebring V6 ’95-96, Town & Country ’90-94 & ‘96

Dodge Avenger V6 ’95-96, Caravan 4 ’93-94 & ’96, Caravan V6 2WD ’90-93, Grand Caravan 4 ’96, Grand Caravan V6 ’90-94 & ’96, Dakota Pickup 2WD ’96, Dakota Pickup 4WD ’91-96, Dynasty V6 ’92-93, Intrepid ’93-95, Monaco “90-91, Neon ’95-96, Ram 1500 Pickup 4WD ’94-96, Ram Van/Wagon B150 ’90-91 & ’93-96, Shadow ’91-92, Stratus ’95-96 (chysler)

Eagle Premier V6 ’90-91, Talon ’94-96, Vision ’93-95 (made by chrysler except talon)

Ford Aerostar ’90-92 & ’95-96, Bronco V8 ’90-96, Bronco II ’90, Club Wagon, Van ’90-94 & ’96, Contour ’95, Explorer ’91-92, F-150 Pickup 4WD ’90-96, Mustang ’92, ’94, ’96, Probe ’91, Ranger Pickup 4WD ’90-92 & ’95, Taurus ’90-93 &’96, Taurus SHO ’90-95, Tempo ’90-94, Thunderbird ’94 & ’96, Windstar ‘95

Geo Storm ’90-92

GMC S-15 Jimmy ’90-94, Jimmy ’95-96, Yukon ’93 & ’96, S-15 Sonoma Pickup 4 ‘91&’95-96, S-15 Sonoma Pickup V6 2WD ’94 & ’96, S-15 Sonoma Pickup V6 4WD ’90-96, Safari ’93-94 & ’96, Sierra C1500 Pickup ’96, Sierra K1500 Pickup ’95-96, Suburban ’90-94

Honda Passport V6 ’94 & ‘96

Hyundai Excel ’90-91

Isuzu Rodeo V6 ’93-94 & ‘96

Jeep Cherokee ’90 & ’96, Grand Cherokee ’93, Wrangler ’90-95 (chrysler)

Lincoln Continental ’90-93 & ’95, Mark VIII ‘93

Mazda 626 ’94,(ford i owned this car ) MX-6 ’93, Navajo 4WD ’91, Pickup 4WD ’95

Mercury Cougar ’94 & ’96, Mystique ’95, Sable ’90-93 & ’96, Topaz ’90-94, Villager ‘96

Mitsubishi Eclipse ’94-96

Nissan Pathfinder 4WD ’96, Pickup 4WD ’95, Quest ‘96

Oldsmobile Achieva ’93, Bravada ’94, Cutlass Calais 4 ’90-91, Cutlass Supreme ’94-96, 98 ’92, Silhouette ’90-93 & ‘96

Plymouth Laser ’94, Neon ’95-96, Sundance ’91-92 & ’94, Voyager 4 ’93-94 & ’96, Voyager V6 2WD ’90-93, Grand Voyager 4 ’96, Grand Voyager V6 ’90-94 & ‘96 (chrysler)

Pontiac Firebird V6 ’95, Firebird V8 ’94-96, Grand Am ’90-94 & ’96, Grand Prix ’90-96, Sunbird ’91-92 & ’94, Sunfire ’96, Trans Sport ’90-93 & ‘96

Saab 900 ’94-95, 9000 ’91-93 & ‘95

Subaru Loyale ’90-92

VW Golf GTI, Golf III ’90-92, Jetta, Jetta III ’90-92

Volvo 960 Series ‘95

seems to me chrysler has more cars listed than anyother in the 90's

[ 03-03-2004: Message edited by: Somthor ]

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Somthor had this to say about Tron:
actualy mr smarty the big three bought alot of the forigen cars makers. Volvo and Mazda are Ford chrysler is mercedes and mishabuisi (sp)

GM owns alot of suzuki and i think daewoo?

parts are not as expensive for my Merceds as american cars and the parts are genarly more availible than yours. of course its a older mercedes back whan that name actualy ment somthing.

Why do I say CHarysler makes lousy cars? maybe its a regional thing, the heat and the water here makes the CV boots rot and you end up replacing the joints every other year or so. Chrysler seems to be prone to it as well as they also seem to rust and have hardware issues paint not bonding properly to the metel etc et etc.

its all personal choice anyway get what you like, I am sure you will anyway.

---

I was speaking about brand quality. EG, the "FORD" brand, or the "Lincoln" or "Mazda" or "Honda". They may be owned by a parent corporation, but the brand still has an overall quality, and an overall percieved quality.

"Imports" have kept their high quality, and the "domestic" brands (GM, ford, chrys, and all their other branded divisions) have gained quality while not getting recognitione for it.

That's all I'm saying. The only real trend that you can notice on a brand by brand basis is that the economy type cars have lower quality, the middle class cars have good quality, and the prestige brands (Mercedes, BMW, jaguar, infinity, acura, lexus) have better quality. So in essence, you get what you pay for. (and if you'll notice, I'm not bashing imports, I'm just saying that domestic cars have similar quality, they're both good)

Now, again, gyd. I need your answers to the other questions about uses and preferences and such.

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Somthor got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
VW Golf GTI, Golf III ’90-92, Jetta, Jetta III ’90-92

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I will not hear any insinuations about zee German automobile! Nothing bad happened!!

And Chrysler isn't a bad car manufacturer. If you look at it in a negative way, most American made vehicles have had some safety defects or something else that have been looked down on in the past. American vehicles are cheap, plus repair cost is somewhat acceptable for replacing parts. Its the efficient cars that cost more money because of the way they are.

He has already stated he doesn't want a new car, under 15k, or not.

I would suggest a 300M but I don't think you can find them in your price range.,

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Nobody really understood why Azizza wrote:
I really like my Dodge Stratus. They can be had for a good price and the 6 Cylinder version is a hell of a car and even the 4banger has good performance. It may be a bit smaller than what you want though. The interior room is similar to that of a Taurus, or at least seems to be. Although the back may be a bit more cramped.

I would suggest a 300M but I don't think you can find them in your price range.,

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Actually, he could. A 2000 300M is about 12-13K, and if you loaded one up with options, it would still fit under the 15K cap. Could even squeak in a 2001 model.

Other really nice options would be a 1999 (or 1998) BMW 3-series sedan. They're excellent cars in terms of drivability, reliability, and comfort. They aren't as luxurious as a larger car, but quite comfortable.

Something else to consider might be a 1999-2000 Lincoln LS sedan, or a 2000-2001 Cadillac Careta. Olds should have a few choices in the Alero and Aurora lines that also fit the budget quite well.

I'd shy away from ford, the only real option for what you're looking at is the Taurus, and while it's a nice car, it's a little uninspiring, and I would much prefer a 300M or one of the other Chrysler cars.

You could also get an Acura TL 3.2 for that budget. It's a sport sedan that'll be quite zippy and fun to drive, with good comfort for the front occupants and suficient comfort for the back seat passengers.

Mercedes and Lexus don't really have anything in your range, and neither does Jaguar.

The Nissan maxima is a good dependable uninspiring car with a little get up and go under the hood, but I'm of the opinion that there are just better ways to spend the money. Toyota and honda don't have anything that would compete with most of what's listed above, so don't bother unless you drop the budget to 10K or you want a really new car (like a 2003 model).

Other than that, please be a little more specific on what you're looking for in your new (well, used) car.

I continually regret taking you off ignore.

Burger: sorry, I was out.

This will be my main commute and travel car (we travel short distances a few times a month). I Need the 6 because of all the highway miles. An 8 would be fine. I am interested in looks and gas mileage above handling and speed. I rarely drive above 70. I appreciate your research!

And you're right about domestics. I currently have a Stratus that is inching towards 100K and has never given us a single problem. Every domestic I've owned or leased since about '96 have never given me any serious problems. Not saying foreigns aren't great, but in the case of DaimlerChrysler, I think the Benz folks imparted some good lessons....

Karnaj -- didn't know that, but the Sebring convertibles do have a V6!

What also falls within your price range is the Grand Am GT, which my dad owned. That car goes like snot, rolls well on the highway, and gets as good mileage as an Intrepid. It is, however, a GM product, so expect annoying small stuff to break. A lot.

A 1999-2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP can be had for about 15 grand, and 240 hp of supercharged v6 loving is enough to get any lawyer's blackend lies and filth encrusted heart racing. Comes in 2 door or 4, leather or no, HUD or no, any way you slice the cake it's a helluva car.

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Gydyon was naked while typing this:
SOMTHOR YOU HAVE BECOME A USELESS DRAIN ON THIS THREAD. For example, you're "preaching" about new cars while ignoring my previous statement that I am buying used and that I am buying a V6, yet you show a bunch of 4-cylinders for "under $15K". And, of course, all of your used cars you mention are BEFORE 1999, which is what I specifically said no to.

I continually regret taking you off ignore.

Karnaj -- didn't know that, but the Sebring convertibles do have a V6!

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Sorry pal but you asked why i thought Chysler was a poor choice so I posted the used cars to advoid list that prodomatly lists chysler products. Also I must of missed where you said you did not wnat to buy or lease new the cars I lested mostly have 4 cyl in them but if you were to buy a left over model or at dealers invoice it wouldnt be to hard to get one with a V6.

that list was mostly to show you could get one new or lease for your budget.

If you are talking highway miles nothing is better than a deisel they last forever and get great milage. the new deisels even have decent acelleration.

look for a volkswagon tdi if possible see if you can find a Passat TDI it will fit your bill.

this is at a dealer in Virgina Im not sure where you are but I thought it was close by. Its a 4 cylinder but unless you have driven one you wont realize how much zoom these have they are actualy faster than the gas powered versions.

please consider one of these they are loaded and are very reliable its worth going to a dealer and test driving one before you just say no

{edit} this one is in cloth but they also have leather availible just got to look around some more.
v6 passat 00 model in pitsburg pa dealer car

[ 03-04-2004: Message edited by: Somthor ]

quote:

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1. Car Wars. I am car shopping. I have a budget of no more than $15K, it must be a '99 or newer, a V6, a sedan or SUV, and no more that 69999.99 miles on it. Thoughts on a good purchase*? I'm currently leaning towards a Sebring convertible. I have two months to shop.

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Thank you Nae. Because of depreciation, I will be buying a used car. But I appreciate the thoughts nonetheless

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Gydyon attempted to be funny by writing:
Why is this a flame thread? Who the hell knows.

Two widely disparate questions for your consideration and response!

1. Car Wars. I am car shopping. I have a budget of no more than $15K, it must be a '99 or newer, a V6, a sedan or SUV, and no more that 69999.99 miles on it. Thoughts on a good purchase*? I'm currently leaning towards a Sebring convertible. I have two months to shop.

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I'm not sure of the reasoning behind specifically wanting a V6, if you want a mid-sized sedan an inline 4 will run just fine. But anywho,

A used 4 door Grand Am GT will definatly fall under your requirements. You could probably pick up one about 1-2 years old if you do some hunting. They are very reliable cars.

The next step up Blindy recommended, the Grand Prix. Larger car, has the 3800 v6 engine which is a multiple award-winning engine. One of my buddies recently bought a 2001 Grand Prix GT for $10,000. So I'm sure you could find something around the 2002-2003 year, depending on the milege.

Either of those cars should serve you well.

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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Reynar was all like:
I'm not sure of the reasoning behind specifically wanting a V6, if you want a mid-sized sedan an inline 4 will run just fine. But anywho,

A used 4 door Grand Am GT will definatly fall under your requirements. You could probably pick up one about 1-2 years old if you do some hunting. They are very reliable cars.

The next step up Blindy recommended, the Grand Prix. Larger car, has the 3800 v6 engine which is a multiple award-winning engine. One of my buddies recently bought a 2001 Grand Prix GT for $10,000. So I'm sure you could find something around the 2002-2003 year, depending on the milege.

Either of those cars should serve you well.

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V6 for lots of highway miles. V4s get chewed up by me (I admit I may be driving them wrong )

Good suggestions!

www.edmunds.com should help you should you have any spacific questions about any cars.

in my personal experince it's a good idea to stay away form the focus or torus. i hear bad thing's about the neon's realibility too

Edit: YOu may want to look at Subaru's too.. you will get amazing performance and top of the line AWD at a sacrifice on comfort and a bit of reliablity (in comparison).

[ 03-04-2004: Message edited by: diadem ]