Talked to an engineer down at the international auto show about this new model, he said it would definatly be a love it or hate it release.
It's still in concept but it'll probably be out by 2005.
So...love it, or hate it?
H1 is the only way to go.
quote:Because it was an all-terrain vehicle that couldn't handle terrain, I think.
Neo-Blindy really knows where their towel is...
why exactly was the H2 a disaster?
And that H3 design is horrendous. It's a pickup truck, but not.
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Neo-Blindy said:
why exactly was the H2 a disaster?
Because it was a fucking brick on a roller skate. In addition to being ugly, it had the worst of both worlds: handled like a low end minivan, drank gas like a high end SUV, and had trouble rolling over speedbumps.
quote:
Maradon! had this to say about Captain Planet:
Because it was a fucking brick on a roller skate. In addition to being ugly, it had the worst of both worlds: handled like a low end minivan, drank gas like a high end SUV, and had trouble rolling over speedbumps.
had trouble rolling over speedbumps?
quote:
There was much rejoicing when Neo-Blindy said this:
why exactly was the H2 a disaster?
Well.. Lets see. It lost most of the functionality the H1 one. Of Roading being one of its major selling points.
The frame and body were seriously weak, and suffered from stress since it was designed to be more 'consumer friendly' and comestic.
It lost a bit of its emergencie features such as the in-dash inflation.
It could no longer handle treading water over 2-3' with ease, where as the H1 could handle up to 5' of water.
While having better engine management, it lost quite a bit of its overall pulling, climbing, and overall torque.
The H2 has gone through quite a few recalls, and it's 4x4 management sucks ass. And one of it's biggest flaws... By making it more 'consumer friendly' and comestic, it made what was a beast more appealing for coolness factor for people who just should down right not drive something like the Hummer because they are unprepared for how it should handle, drive, or perform. It was just cool, and a major status symbol. So everyone and thier grandma was trying to get one, and they have no clue how to handle it.
Not to mention the H1 was basically bulletproof, glass and all. Had a much larger approach and receede angle. In dash inflateable tires, with a solid contruction and major run flat capabilities. Traveled at a lower top speeds, but was quite a bit stronger.
This truck though isn't as ugly as the H2 IMO. As far as trucks go, it's not a bad looking one. I don't hardly think it is going to be near as tough as the H1 though. What good is a truck if you can't go boondockin'?
quote:
ACES! Another post by Faelynn LeAndris:
Well.. Lets see. It lost most of the functionality the H1 one. Of Roading being one of its major selling points.The frame and body were seriously weak, and suffered from stress since it was designed to be more 'consumer friendly' and comestic.
It lost a bit of its emergencie features such as the in-dash inflation.
It could no longer handle treading water over 2-3' with ease, where as the H1 could handle up to 5' of water.
While having better engine management, it lost quite a bit of its overall pulling, climbing, and overall torque.
The H2 has gone through quite a few recalls, and it's 4x4 management sucks ass. And one of it's biggest flaws... By making it more 'consumer friendly' and comestic, it made what was a beast more appealing for coolness factor for people who just should down right not drive something like the Hummer because they are unprepared for how it should handle, drive, or perform. It was just cool, and a major status symbol. So everyone and thier grandma was trying to get one, and they have no clue how to handle it.
Not to mention the H1 was basically bulletproof, glass and all. Had a much larger approach and receede angle. In dash inflateable tires, with a solid contruction and major run flat capabilities. Traveled at a lower top speeds, but was quite a bit stronger.
Why does this matter to P-Diddy, snoop dog, and ice cube... you know, the targeted owners of the h2.
It sells fine. GM makes a huge profit on each one. about 2% of the people who buy it actually go off road. About 90% of those people who go off road wouldn't have any problems doing what they want to do. If your only complaint is that it doesn't live up to the hummer name, I'll give you that, but it's not a failure. It's exactly what it was intended to be.
quote:
Neo-Blindy enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
... but it's not a failure. It's exactly what it was intended to be.
You're exactly right on that one. The H2 was very much supposed to be a trophy vehicle. And if you compare the sticker price to what it costs to make, it's a huge success.
But I agree with most people here in that I would never buy one, and don't really like them.
quote:
A sleep deprived Neo-Blindy stammered:
Why does this matter to P-Diddy, snoop dog, and ice cube... you know, the targeted owners of the h2.It sells fine. GM makes a huge profit on each one. about 2% of the people who buy it actually go off road. About 90% of those people who go off road wouldn't have any problems doing what they want to do. If your only complaint is that it doesn't live up to the hummer name, I'll give you that, but it's not a failure. It's exactly what it was intended to be.
I'm not even talking about going off Road as far as not being able to control it. It's like the soccer moms who buy even REGULAR SUV's let alone something like a HUMMER, and have no buisness whatsoever driving one as they are a danger to themselves and just about everyone else on the road.
You don't call something a Hummer without expecting it to carry on the standards of it's namesake. The H2 is not a Hummer, it's a plastic mock up, on a GM Frame that resembles a Hummer cosmetically.
It is not safe to drive, and most of the people owning one should not be driving them as it is dangerous. Just because it's trendy and cool to buy, makes it an ideal target for idiots to get who cant control it.
As I said as well, the H2 has been recalled already on several issues, as well as NOT having the ability to do what it was marketed to do. ALso, is a very poorly designed vehicle safety wise and engineering wise. It's not that it doesn't just live up to the Hummer name. 
It's a trash ass 4x4 that can't do sqaut except be a menace.
quote:
Neo-Blindy enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Why does this matter to P-Diddy, snoop dog, and ice cube... you know, the targeted owners of the h2.It sells fine. GM makes a huge profit on each one. about 2% of the people who buy it actually go off road. About 90% of those people who go off road wouldn't have any problems doing what they want to do. If your only complaint is that it doesn't live up to the hummer name, I'll give you that, but it's not a failure. It's exactly what it was intended to be.
You're arguing symantics.
It was a marketing success, yes, but it was an engineering failure.
MOST SUV's, contrary to what the name suggests, are not the off-road gods one would think they should be. They can handle rougher terrain than standard driving, but not true off road (farm paths rather than mudding in the woods, in other words). If any of this comes as a revelation to you, then you clearly don't pay much attention to vehicle reality.
Want all the bells and whistles of a military Hummer, buy a military Hummer. Don't pay for a kiddy car with the Hummer name if that's not what you want. Simple.
As for the H3...that's a mighty pretty trophy, but if I want a pickup, I'll buy a Dodge or something similar.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Eh...The majority of the public consumer base didn't need all the bells and whistles of the H1, so they made the H2. Fact is that a lot of people who spend time off-roading or the like full time 1. Plan on spending money doing repairs to the vehicle anyway and 2. usually buy up options packages outfitting their vehicles better.MOST SUV's, contrary to what the name suggests, are not the off-road gods one would think they should be. They can handle rougher terrain than standard driving, but not true off road (farm paths rather than mudding in the woods, in other words). If any of this comes as a revelation to you, then you clearly don't pay much attention to vehicle reality.
Want all the bells and whistles of a military Hummer, buy a military Hummer. Don't pay for a kiddy car with the Hummer name if that's not what you want. Simple.
As for the H3...that's a mighty pretty trophy, but if I want a pickup, I'll buy a Dodge or something similar.
Uhh, you are mistaken. The H2 comes with more Bells and whistles than the H1. The Original was barebones, no interior carpets or apolstery for the most part even. The H2 was a cosmetic/asthetic upgrade to the H1. Not the other way around. Bad part was, they made it pretty, but fucked up the design and mechanics.
And no, people who spend an aweful lot of time off roading do NOT want to spend a lot of money on repairs, they want to build it tough from the start to MINIMIZE the need for repairs. Expected repairs exist everywhere, minimizing them is the first rule. No one serious about off-roading is going to buy a factory package to outfit thier vehicle... And none of that is available for the H2 anyway, thier packages are like Bosse Stereo upgrades and such.
The problem lies in the fact, engineering and design wise the H2 was made to be more consumer friendly in looks, but retained some of the dangerous aspects of the Hummer to begin with. Bad part was, while the H1 could compensate for them, the H2 dumbed things down, making it even MORE dangerous than the original, and put it in the hands of soccermoms and rich playboys who have no buisness driving one to begin with, because ANY SUV drives differently than say, a Minivan or a standard car, and most of them can't compensate for it. Increasing the risk even more. [ 01-14-2004: Message edited by: Faelynn LeAndris ]
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and El Imán Grande! was all like:
It looks like a Tonka truck.
quote:I'm sure most of you have seen the commercial.
Costs me a C-note to fill up half a tank!
quote:
Ford Prefect attempted to be funny by writing:
I'm sure most of you have seen the commercial.
Yeah and look how that commercial ends. 
One of my points exactly. I find that commercial amusing still. 
Company says "We're willing to spend X to make a vehicle...For that budget, it can either have all the ability of the original, or it can have prettiness and cupholders". They clearly opted for prettiness and cupholders, and tore down the capabilities.
As for people who go off-roading as a casual thing (people who then drive their SUV to their real life jobs, etc) do plan ahead in case of accidents. If I'm taking my $25K+ vehicle out on a potentially dangerous course, I'm going to make sure I can financially conduct the sort of repairs I'm likely to need (wheel/axle repairs, engine and undercarriage damage, possibly even panel replacements). If at all possible, I'm likely to opt for the extras packages that toughen up my vehicle. Common sense. You don't expect an off-the-rack business suit to fit and look as good as a tailored-to-individual suit. You don't buy a generic off-the-showroom vehicle with no optional extras and expect it to work as well as the military-tough version of the same vehicle. It's NEVER been that way from military to commercial brands. So I'm failing to see where I was wrong. If you put another 10K into an H2 I'm sure you could retrofit it to have the capabilities off road that the basic H1 does. But what you buy from the dealer is the pretty car with cup holders.
As for the comments about consumers who have no idea how to handle SUV's, I agree whole-heartedly. The vast majority of people who buy SUV's don't know how to drive them. They subscribe to the ludicrous idea that having a bigger vehicle makes them safer (and within a certain size range, they're right), but somehow fail to realize that driving a bigger vehicle isn't like driving your little Geo Golf or whatever. And what's worse, for every moron who buys one of those gas-guzzling monstrosities, another is going to get into an accident driving one with someone in a Dodge Neon or Toyota Corolla or whatever and kill the other person because their fucking SUV is too huge. But that's an argument about the idiocy of SUV's, and has little to no bearing in this conversation.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about John Romero:As for the comments about consumers who have no idea how to handle SUV's, I agree whole-heartedly. The vast majority of people who buy SUV's don't know how to drive them. They subscribe to the ludicrous idea that having a bigger vehicle makes them safer (and within a certain size range, they're right), but somehow fail to realize that driving a bigger vehicle isn't like driving your little Geo Golf or whatever. And what's worse, for every moron who buys one of those gas-guzzling monstrosities, another is going to get into an accident driving one with someone in a Dodge Neon or Toyota Corolla or whatever and kill the other person because their fucking SUV is too huge. But that's an argument about the idiocy of SUV's, and has little to no bearing in this conversation.
You will be happy to learn then, that The Big 3 are slowly moving away from SUV style products. In the next couple years you'll be seeing more in-between type vehicles. GM having recently released their new inline 5 and inline 6 cylinder engines allow for better gas milege with suffeciant power to move along a mid-sized car/truck.
I don't suspect you'll see SUVs drop off the face of the planet anytime, but you'll be seeing a lot more trail-blazer type vehicles on the road. Which are much more functional and less dangerous.
quote:
Roll the dice to see if Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael is getting drunk!
As for people who go off-roading as a casual thing (people who then drive their SUV to their real life jobs, etc) do plan ahead in case of accidents. If I'm taking my $25K+ vehicle out on a potentially dangerous course, I'm going to make sure I can financially conduct the sort of repairs I'm likely to need (wheel/axle repairs, engine and undercarriage damage, possibly even panel replacements). If at all possible, I'm likely to opt for the extras packages that toughen up my vehicle. Common sense. You don't expect an off-the-rack business suit to fit and look as good as a tailored-to-individual suit. You don't buy a generic off-the-showroom vehicle with no optional extras and expect it to work as well as the military-tough version of the same vehicle. It's NEVER been that way from military to commercial brands. So I'm failing to see where I was wrong. If you put another 10K into an H2 I'm sure you could retrofit it to have the capabilities off road that the basic H1 does. But what you buy from the dealer is the pretty car with cup holders.
quote:
See, your Faelynn LeAndris means your hair. So technically it's true.
And no, people who spend an aweful lot of time off roading do NOT want to spend a lot of money on repairs, they want to build it tough from the start to MINIMIZE the need for repairs. Expected repairs exist everywhere, minimizing them is the first rule. No one serious about off-roading is going to buy a factory package to outfit thier vehicle... And none of that is available for the H2 anyway, thier packages are like Bosse Stereo upgrades and such.
quote:
Shed? I never skied shed.
quote:
Check out the big brain on Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael!
SNIP
You said bells and whistles which usually appeals to extras built into the machine itself. Which the original H1 has none of, it's basiucally just a pretty solid machine, frame to body (With some emergency features yes.) So from my point of view the H2 recieved more extras and add ons, read as 'bells and whistles' than the H1 had.
You can't really retrofit an H2, even for 10K, which is where my whole point has been coming from as far as what makes it a bad vehicle. For all intents and purposes, it is only a shell that looks similiar to a Hummer. It's frame is a standard GM lareg GM Frame (Extended, which is where some danger comes it) that is too weak to really support the vechicle itself from poor design. Which is where issues crop up. It cannot hold the engines used in an H1, as the frame and mounts cannot support it. Even if you fabricated them, which you can do, you'd be looking at making it more of a death trap than it already is. Also, anyone who would buy a factory package in order to outfit thier vehicle for strenuous activities is one of those people who thinks KC Lights, and a 4x4 Sticker on thier Bed makes thier truck an off road vehicle, even for the causual use, and they wont go very long. There are no options like that for the H2 anyway. In order to get your H2 as safe or functional as an H1, retrofiting or modding wont cut it, you are basically buying a new vehicle.
The H2 can't handle anything harder than casual driving, it can handle that fine if you are careful. The problem lies in the fact that, while it can handle that it is dangerous. Because they tried to conform, size wise and etc, to the H1 but seriously droped it's ability to handle, the engines ability to maintain and power, which makes the thing a death trap waiting to happen on civilian roads. That is where my point of the idiocy of SUV drivers comes in, that you said didn't belong here. It is bad enough this is the case with the regular SUVs out there, but one built as poorly and with only profit margins in mind like the H2, making it a trophy vehicle, is just bad judgement. It's been out what, a year and a half or less now, and there are issues about it everywhere.
The Viper is a trophy vehicle. There are LOTS of trophy vehicles... The difference between them and an H2 is that, they were successfully engineered, and for the most part a hell of a lot safer. The H2, while it may make a rich mans toy collection seem impressive thus making the play off its name a success, is a dangerous machine and an automotive nightmare. [ 01-14-2004: Message edited by: Faelynn LeAndris ]
You get half the offroad capability for a third of the price. How exactly is that a faliure?
If you don't like it, don't drive it. People made their money and can spend it however they want. Just because YOU don't think its the ultimate off road machine doesn't mean they care.
quote:
Kiranê had this to say about Robocop:
H2 is far from a faliure.You get half the offroad capability for a third of the price. How exactly is that a faliure?
If you don't like it, don't drive it. People made their money and can spend it however they want. Just because YOU don't think its the ultimate off road machine doesn't mean they care.
No... H2 isn't THAT much less than an H1 (50k vs 75K+ ), and it has NONE of the offroad capabilities.
This also isn't really an issue of offroading, its of engineering failure making the machine dangerous and faulty PERIOD, especially in the hands of its target consumers. Not just off-road. Pay attention and try to keep up.
quote:
Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about Duck Tales:
No... H2 isn't THAT much less than an H1 (50k vs 75K+), and it has NONE of the offroad capabilities.
This also isn't really an issue of offroading, its of engineering failure making the machine dangerous and faulty PERIOD, especially in the hands of its target consumers. Not just off-road.
The base price of an H1 is $106,000. Compared to the base price of the H2 which is 50,000 I'd consider that quite a difference.
Click on "The H1" then "Compare"
quote:
Reynar had this to say about Pirotess:
The base price of an H1 is $106,000. Compared to the base price of the H2 which is 50,000 I'd consider that quite a difference.Click on "The H1" then "Compare"
Here you get the base Hummer for $78,000, and an H2 for $56,000. 12K difference on a set of 50K+ Vehicles.
quote:Here where? You mean Texas? A link would prove helpful in, um, proving your point.
See, your Faelynn LeAndris means your hair. So technically it's true.
Here you get the base Hummer for $78,000, and an H2 for $56,000. 12K difference on a set of 50K+ Vehicles.
The gentleman didn't come into my store but I desperately wanted to ask where he got a Unimog and what exactly was he thinking... 
I'm not sure of the model.. I think it was a U-400
Jesus Christ they're tall. He had to climb this little built in ladder thing to get into it.
quote:
Led Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Christ, a hundred grand for a H1? Someone should tell them they can buy surplused humvees for around 4k...
how?
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Faelynn LeAndris had this to say about pies:
Here you get the base Hummer for $78,000, and an H2 for $56,000. 12K difference on a set of 50K+ Vehicles.
The base MSRP is 106k, most of the H1's you find will be loaded around 123k, if they're selling them for 78k down by you, then they are definatly losing money on every Hummer they sell. I would find that to be...bad business.
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diadem's account was hax0red to write:
how?
Although 4k is a bit of an exaggeration, they're still pretty dang expensive.
Unless there's somewhere else I've missed, which is entirely possible.
You just watch your local paper usually for those auctions.
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Sith Lord Nae had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
You can buy them from military surplus auctions. You can get Jeeps, H1's, vans, trucks, and other vehicles that were used as fleet vehicles in the military that way.You just watch your local paper usually for those auctions.
You will not find a HMMWV being sold to civilians in any form other than scrap or parts. Same goes with the Jeeps, DOT says they are unsafe. O and if you manage to get your hands on one anyways, the government can seize them at any time. [ 01-15-2004: Message edited by: Pyscho_Pike ]
