quote:It really is amusing how many of you people have aneurisms over this guy's grammar, then pull this old holier-than-thou statement out and toss it at him. Honestly, I used to think like that too, then I realized how absolutely fucking ridiculous it is. Granted, there are some forms of mispelling and bad grammar that cannot be excused, but I don't think this is one of them.
I alone love Khyron. I alone tempt Khyron:
If you can't be bothered to take the time to spell your words right and make it clear and easily readable, why the fuck should I bother reading through it?
Maybe I should start calling your opinions worthless, too, simply because you won't take ten five two 0.5 seconds out of your time to figure out that there was supposed to be a comma at a certain place. After all, why should I bother with the opinions of people who are so conceited that they can't excuse something so trivial as spelling errors and bad grammar.
Or maybe I'm just complacent. 
For some odd reason, that just rubs me the wrong way.
His spelling and grammar are just a bonus; but I don't dislike him just for that.
quote:Respect ++
Captain Gikk will get you high tonight:
My main problem with him is that he is so very bullheaded that he says he's wrong, then keeps arguing with the very thing he's wrong about!For some odd reason, that just rubs me the wrong way.
His spelling and grammar are just a bonus; but I don't dislike him just for that.
quote:
Black had this to say about John Romero:
Maybe I should start calling your opinions worthless, too, simply because you won't taketenfivetwo0.5 seconds out of your time to figure out that there was supposed to be a comma at a certain place. After all, why should I bother with the opinions of people who are so conceited that they can't excuse something so trivial as spelling errors and bad grammar.Or maybe I'm just complacent.
I'd agree, if it were once or twice. Everyone makes mistakes. I transpose letters all the time. I mis-type or type faster than my fingers can keep up, and end up stumbling over my letters. That's not the problem, the problem is that most of us (Easily, 95% of the board, if not MORE) go back and correct these problems. Missing one or two or three misspellings, that's fine, but every single post of his, EVERY SINGLE POST, contains them. Reading the small posts, fine, no problem, reading the long ones? Ugh.
Plus, I enjoy being Anal sometimes 
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
And I'd really like to hear what Lashanna has to say; intelligently dissenting views are always welcome.
You really don't.
It was mostly arguing by attacking Parcelan's character, and I felt half-guilty while writing it, and then embarassed when I read what I posted.
So really, it wasn't worth posting.
The only relevant thing I really had in there was suggesting that you treat arguements here too often like a debate competition, and not enough like a relaxed social environment.
But mostly, I'm too lazy to try and back any opinions I might have, some of which can't be defended, anyway.
quote:
Channeling the spirit of Sherlock Holmes, Black absently fondled Watson and proclaimed:
It really is amusing how many of you people have aneurisms over this guy's grammar, then pull this old holier-than-thou statement out and toss it at him. Honestly, I used to think like that too, then I realized how absolutely fucking ridiculous it is. Granted, there are some forms of mispelling and bad grammar that cannot be excused, but I don't think this is one of them.Maybe I should start calling your opinions worthless, too, simply because you won't take
tenfivetwo0.5 seconds out of your time to figure out that there was supposed to be a comma at a certain place. After all, why should I bother with the opinions of people who are so conceited that they can't excuse something so trivial as spelling errors and bad grammar.Or maybe I'm just complacent.
The occasional misplaced comma or tpyo is easily forgiven. Hell, if I was half the stickler you described, it'd be a full-time job correcting and flaming people for their grammar and typing.
Dudeman, on the other hand, is particularly egregious, and has made it clear he doesn't care even to try. That cannot be forgiven, because it is a direct comment on both the rigor of his thought and the low esteem in which he holds us.
His posts are one step shy of gibberish, fercryinoutloud.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
A sleep deprived Black stammered:
Respect ++
R E S P E C T
Find out what it means to me! 
quote:
Lashanna had this to say about Pirotess:
It was mostly arguing by attacking Parcelan's character, and I felt half-guilty while writing it, and then embarassed when I read what I posted.
So really, it wasn't worth posting.
Have you lost weight?
( And, Sagey, Typo [ 12-04-2003: Message edited by: Khyron ]
Or, wait... was that intentional? )
quote:
Verily, the chocolate bunny rabits doth run and play while Khyron gently hums:
Liam : I told you so. Patience, young grasshoppah.( And, Sagey, Typo
Or, wait... was that intentional? )
It's a joke.
Are you making fun of me? You know what a sensitive person I am.
/paranoid
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Bloodsage attempted to be funny by writing:
It's a joke.Are you making fun of me? You know what a sensitive person I am.
/paranoid
Yes, I am mocking you.
MOCK
Work is boring as hell and I'm struggling to keep a grip on those last shreds of sanity, while I help stupid old ladies figure out why their PC shuts down when they push the power button.
No joke, that's what this current caller is complaining about.
"When I press the button on the front of the unit, it turns off! I don't want it to turn off!"
"Then don't push the button..."
"But can't you FIX it?"
quote:
Khyron startled the peaceful upland Gorillas by blurting:
Yes, I am mocking you.MOCK
Work is boring as hell and I'm struggling to keep a grip on those last shreds of sanity, while I help stupid old ladies figure out why their PC shuts down when they push the power button.
No joke, that's what this current caller is complaining about.
"When I press the button on the front of the unit, it turns off! I don't want it to turn off!"
"Then don't push the button..."
"But can't you FIX it?"
So what bet did you win? You're not trying to guess the color of Parcelan's undies again, are you?
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Khyron was listening to Cher while typing:
"When I press the button on the front of the unit, it turns off! I don't want it to turn off!""Then don't push the button..."
"But can't you FIX it?"
"Yes ma'am I can. here's what you need to do... Go find a large knife and CUT ALL THE FINGERS OFF YOUR HANDS! Then you won't be able to push buttons that don't need to be pushed."
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about Tron:
So what bet did you win? You're not trying to guess the color of Parcelan's undies again, are you?
Oh, puh-leeze! How could you even think such a thing!
We're trying to guess whether or not he goes commando.
DUH.
quote:
Drysart was listening to Cher while typing:
Wal-Mart Wal-Mart Wal-Mart Wal-Mart
A REZ! BAND BAND BAND
I was just testing out the new words in the profanity filter.
quote:
Drysart had this to say about Knight Rider:
Whoops. I didn't even notice how old the thread was.I was just testing out the new words in the profanity filter.
Testing, eh? What is filtered out to be Walmart?
Shit. Fuck. Cunt. Hell. Spic. Wop. Kraut. Wetback. George Bush.
quote:
What the Mr. Parcelan??
Testing, eh? What is filtered out to be Walmart?
Wal-Mart
Does the hyphen annoy you that much? I mean... Wal-mart isn't THAT bad.
It's like people saying e-bay.
Other poeple can talk about Wal-mart, but when you join the conversation, it seems to turn into flame city.
well I can But I'll get Banned and thats no fun at all.
Shakes fist at the word.... [ 12-20-2003: Message edited by: Somthor ]
quote:
What the Somthor??
well I can But I'll get Banned
Says who?
I'm the only one who can ban people and I have no problem with you starting threads.
quote:
All right.
So this is how it's going down.Well, I'm gonna just have to mosey in and put this to an end.
Somthor, posting this type of thread (again) when you know people are just going to give you shit about it equates to trolling.
As such, it's not wanted on this board and there are repercussions for the act. I'll give you your warning right now. No more Wal-Mart threads. If by some chance someone else posts a thread about Wal-Mart, I don't want to see you posting in it unless it is something about shiny happy people and love for all. Comprende?
Everyone else, stop giving him shit about his Anti-Wal-Mart Crusade. Hopefully, he'll listen and stop talking about it, so these two things will coincide.
Now bring me a root beer.
[ 12-20-2003: Message edited by: Gikk ]
quote:
Khyron wrote this stupid crap:
Seriously. It doesn't matter how intelligent your point May or May Not have been, when you express it like a six-year-old would, it makes us treat it like such.
Honestly, this is one of the major problems I have had with the boards recently. It seems far too many people care about how someone says something instead of what they are saying. For the most part, the reputation of a poster and his ability to phrase an argument well seems to outweigh someone who has trouble communicating but has valid points. Many arguments on these boards seem to be a challenge of who can win instead of listening to the other party in order to come to a conclusion that is factually accurate. Debates become a series of one-upmanships instead of a means to find a solution to a problem. People could both be debating a correct point, but feel obligated to be some sort of winner and continue a futile argument.
Another problem is that the flow of a lot of debate threads seems to be set by a small number of posters. Many posters follow what a few popular people say, changing their opinions on a whim. They may even attack those who stated the same things they once did ass soon as the tide of the battle flows in a different direction.
It doesnt matter if Somthor was wrong 100 times before. Assuming whatever he posts is inaccurate because of how he phrases it and he is unpopular is comparable to being too lazy to use ones brain to think. This makes people sheep, assholes, and simple minded. I dont believe Somthor is stupid; more that he has trouble communicating. Many people on this board have problems communicating in one way or another, so insulting Somthor on his inability to communicate can be rather hypocritical for many of us. More importantly, people are intelligent in different areas, and poor grammar or spelling does not mean someone is stupid by any means.
As time goes by, I feel like I belong here less and less. For the years Ive been here noticed the boards begin to fall apart and come back together again, and accepted it as some sort of cycle that just happens. Whenever there is a common fad or shared interest, people seem to be entertained for a short while and the community regains some sort of stability. They eventauly lose interest, get bored, return to turning on each other, then repeat the cycle once a new fad comes around. Problem is I havent seen this fix happen in almost a year. Posters are forming cliques and behaving almost exactly like a bunch of highschoolers. For the most part, especially after some of the posters were shipped off, this is what the boards are becoming.
As strange as it is, despite the age of majority of the posters on this board, when someone does post with legitimate every day normal highschool problems, they are insulted. This usually happens when someone is interested in a woman who doesnt like him (or a woman interested in a guy who doesnt like her), someone has problems with their parents, grades, or the like. Since someone else already had this problem, the same problem being posted again begins to wear on regular forum members patience and they simply dont care about each others problems. This detaches members from each other and destroys a feeling community. Various responses to these problems show a forum members inability to see themselves in other peoples shoes, even if the situation the other person is in is one they shared themselves. This causes people to either become narcissistic or hide to less overwhelming environment such as a clique.
All of these actions by many forum members make me feel like I belong here less and less. People seem to be too lazy to think for themselves, and some are simply too stupid to do so. Responses to arguments seem obvious as soon as one post is created because people are so eager to win some sort of battle in an online forum that they dont care what the other person said, simply how to destroy their competition. The entire forum seem to have less and less of a feeling of a community and more like a social drama of a bunch of highschool students with a few people from various other walks of life thrown in the mix. I keep hoping that people will begin to show each other some sort of respect, think outside their own little shell, and make this forum a place I feel comfortable to call a sort of home again, but I do not know if that is going to happen. I still have a lot of respect for a small number of members, but in all honesty, that number is much smaller than it should be.
edit: Khyron, this wasn't directed at you, rather most of the forum in general. You do not tend to be one of the people who fall into the "sheep" catagory.
edit2: Summary - This is a rant about what I feel is happening to the boards in general, not just this particular instance with Somthor. I don't like what they are becoming. [ 12-20-2003: Message edited by: diadem ]
Further, you simply have to accept the fact that some people are stupid. If you believe any of Somthor's crap about a mysterious handicap that prevents him from typing with a modicum of self-discipline, you might question yourself. Somthor does have a handicap that prevents him from expressing coherent arguments in readable form: he's an idiot. How much evidence do you need? He may be nice, he may be well-meaning, but the fact remains: he's got the IQ of a rock, and the communication skills of a time cube disciple.
Since there's a serious question buried amid your angst, however, I shall answer you. The first part has to do with the essence of communication. You, as so many others, have it all backwards: the burden is not upon the listener, but the other way around. Think of communication, especially in a forum such as this, with multiple topics and posters from which to choose, as an act of salemanship.
Whether it's an idea, a witty comment, a picture, a news article, or a plea for help or advice, anyone who posts is marketing a product of some sort. If it wasn't worth sharing, it wouldn't be posted, right? Ah, but that's from the writer's perspective.
What of the reader's cost-benefit analysis? A reader will, of course, decide what's worthwhile based upon a number of criteria. Some subjects, for example, will be more appealing than others. Some writers, through long association and validation, will have more credibility than others. Some writers, through the same process, will be suspect. But how does one judge new material?
Assuming the topic is of interest, one will of course begin reading. As IRL, first impressions are important. Like Highlander, there can be only one. So, faced with a BBOT filled with indecipherable mush, one asks the inevitable question: "Is wading through this worth my time?" If the typing isn't atrocious, or the reader decides to give the benefit of the doubt by assuming the author is a dyslexic amputee typing with a straw held in his teeth while suffering a seizure, any obvious fallacies or arguments against common sense will raise a similar question: "If the writer contradicts common sense in this instance, how much should I value other opinions?" Finally, even getting past poor typing and a loose grasp of facts, a reader--whether trained in debate or not--will notice whether an argument, even one against conventional wisdom, just plain makes sense.
Why would a reader waste time with poorly reasoned gibberish that doesn't even bother to get the facts straight? And how many istances of the above from a single source is it reasonable to forgive, on the off chance the next unreadable BBOT has the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything?
Finally, there's the aspect of common courtesy. Expecting readers to wade through line after line of poorly written, illegibly typed, and incomprehensibly reasoned gunk sends a message: the writer's time is more valuable than the reader's. Insisting that readers should bear the burden of sorting through random groupings of various alphabets in search of coherent thought is worse.
Now for your second question: why the emphasis on form? It goes back to communication being an act of salesmanship. Here, I'm not talking about typing or grammar or logic skills; I'm talking about entertainment value. Most people would rather not read a dry litany of facts, figures, and impeccable logic leading to an inevitable conclusion. Package the same content within the entertaining context of a flame war, complete with biting insults, vivid analogies, and incisive wit, however, and even the people who claim to hate conflict will hang around to see what happens. Does one lecture small kids on sharing and playing nice, or let them be entertained by Veggie Tales, where they learn the same thing?
Finally, quit whining and do something. If you don't fit in here, then why are you still around? If you have a beef, why don't you stand up for what you think is right? Sorry, but a long, angsty post about the injustice of it all counts for nothing beyond attention whoring and/or grandstanding. If you see someone being abused unjustly, defend them. If you can't because you haven't got that special way with words, learn to express yourself better. Sure, standing on a soapbox will gather a crowd--have you got what it takes to lead them somewhere?
{edit: tpyo} [ 12-20-2003: Message edited by: Bloodsage ]
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
How.... Bloodsage.... uughhhhhh:
Here's a thought for you: why should I waste valuable brain bytes wading through illegible gobbledegook on the off chance there might be a tidbit of useful information in there amongst the alphabet soup?
You don't have to, if you would just use the ignore function, or just skip over that person's posts; then you wouldn't have to write silly essays like this.
It's such an easy solution. It's beyond me why you continue to complain about it.
quote:
A sleep deprived Bloodsage stammered:
Here's a thought for you: why should I waste valuable brain bytes wading through illegible gobbledegook on the off chance there might be a tidbit of useful information in there amongst the alphabet soup?
Way to prove Diadem's entire point in one sentance.
quote:
Bloodsage had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Somthor does have a handicap that prevents him from expressing coherent arguments in readable form: he's an idiot. How much evidence do you need? He may be nice, he may be well-meaning, but the fact remains: he's got the IQ of a rock, and the communication skills of a time cube disciple.
{edit: tpyo}
You have no cooth.
quote:
Quoth Somthor:
You have no cooth.
Better uncouth than stupid.
Note the correct spelling.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Somthor had this to say about Tron:
You have no cooth.
Couth. Cooth sounds naughty 
quote:
Verily, the chocolate bunny rabits doth run and play while Delphi Aegis gently hums:
Way to prove Diadem's disentire point in one sentence.
Corrected some minor buffoonery on your part.
If you think you can hang, feel free to explain what it is you think you meant by that.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
A sleep deprived Zeke the Final Fencer stammered:
OK so...what thread are we talking about that Black locked?
He said he had no problem with Somthor, which caused everyone to get in a huff, myself included. But I like to fight, so who knows what the fuck I was thinking.
Anyways, I hear you crap the bed.
