quote:
Bill had this to say about Optimus Prime:
If you agree with them 100% on every issue they enforce, but of course if that's the case then your house would be that way even without communists telling you what to do with it.Unless it's a health or public safety hazard, what other people's property looks like is no business of yours. I'd readily tolerate uncut grass and broken down cars in yards if it meant I was free to do whatever the hell I want with property I own.
Mara, this is not meant to be a rip, but when you have a mortgage, your attitude on this will really change.
My house sells for 5 or 10 grand less because the idiot across the street hasn't trimmed the hedges in 15 years and my next door neighbor has annoying dogs.
Homeowner's associations don't solve all of those problems, but if you are fortunate enough to live in a community with a good one (and I've seen and represented both bad and good), it helps your house sell for more. Period.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
quote:
How.... Bill.... uughhhhhh:
[QB...
Unless it's a health or public safety hazard, what other people's property looks like is no business of yours. I'd readily tolerate uncut grass and broken down cars in yards if it meant I was free to do whatever the hell I want with property I own.[/QB]
It can depend on certian things..If for say I did decide to paint my house neon fucking green and put up 10ft stokade fencing..the property valuse of the neighborhood will plummet. I see it if there was some things to be said, the Township should be doing it.
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How.... Bill.... uughhhhhh:
If banks were going around telling people what to do with property, then you'd have a point
True, but until you'd fully paid off your property value in full.. you can't really say you "own" it.
I don't know how it works over there, but once you pay your mortage off over here you're given a deed that specifically says you own the land the house stands on, and thus the house itself. Until you pay that off, the land isn't really yours.. technically.
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Mortious thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Pay the mortgage off.Then you can say that.
You still have property tax to worry about.
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Peter painfully thought these words up:
If My house was bad looking and I tried to sell it like that, then I deserve to get hosed for being a Idiot..but when I am living it it and want to park my car in the drive way, or paint my house Neon Fucking gren, or fence it in 10ft stockade fencing I should be able to do so, it my property to do as I see fit...but if I am going to sell it, well I will take the fencing, and repaint the house if I want to get a good deal on it.
That would be fine, if it were ONLY your property value that deteriorated.
Why should I suffer because I live next to you, when I maintain my home as perfectly as possible?
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Rurouni Densetsu had this to say about (_|_):
I'd love to see you say that when you try to SELL your house.
or until a neighbor tried to sell their house and the value dropped 10-20k+ because the person next door painted the house pink, puts flamingos in the driveway, keeps rotting cars on the front dirt, has dogs who bark 24/7 loud enough to be heard through the walls and closed windows of houses 3 blocks down, and has 50 ft Antennas sticking from their roof so they can try and pick up radio signals from the sdratkcuf of Mars.
a homeowners association is there to protect the investment in property and quality of life for the nieghborhood. it's sorta like anti-public nudity laws. if you walk around town naked you get arrested. by walking around the town naked you depreciate the quality of life and the monetary value of everyone who can see you and every business who might lose customers due to you walking down the street. likewise, as in my above house example, someone who goes through every possible way to make their property look like a shit heap and thus lowers the property values of everyone in the nieghborhood is gonna get the shit kicked out of them by the HoA.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
Sure telling everybody what to do will raise property value.
Forcing everyone to drive electric cars would decrease pollution, outlawing meat would make the country healthier and help the national obesity problem, installing tracking devices in people's brains at birth would virtually eliminate crime, but we don't do any of that.
Why? Because it violates personal freedoms. So why is it ok to tell someone what they can and can't do with thier property?
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Bill had this to say about Optimus Prime:
I'd refuse to sign any contract waiving my right to do what I want with my property.
It's not your property until you buy it. You can't buy it without agreeing to the terms of the deed. It's no different than entering into any other form of contract. Nowhere is it written that land can only be sold without attached contracts. Nowhere is it even implied that, not in any law on any books in any jurisdiction in the United States.
And as I said before; if you don't agree to the terms of the deed, then nobody's twisting your arm to buy it... there's plenty of other land for sale. You are not entitled to a specific piece of land under terms of your own choosing simply because you happen to like it.
quote:
Bill had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Don't want to sell me the property without it? How is that any different from discrimination?
It's not even in the same ballpark as discrimination. It's not even the same league. It's not even the same sport. Nobody else can buy the property without agreeing to the same terms; ergo, you are not being discriminated against.
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Drysart wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
It's not even in the same ballpark as discrimination. It's not even the same league. It's not even the same sport. Nobody else can buy the property without agreeing to the same terms; ergo, you are not being discriminated against.
Refusing to sell to a person because of thier lifestyle is a textbook example of discrimination. Adding in the condition that you'll sell to them if they change thier lifestyle doesn't change the fact that it's discrimination.
I think it's perfectly fine that people can have contracts like that. However, if a person refuses to sign a homeowners association contract, the association should have no legal recourse.
Nevermind the fact that a homeowners association has no legal claim to the land in the first place.
Likewise, the HA can take legal action on behalf of the people in the development. Door-to-door solicitors? Take them to court on behalf of the entire neighborhood. Annoying religious groups ringing your doorbell? take them to court.
Besides there are distinct rules about the Homeowner's Association. They can't discriminate against you on the basis of race, religion, disability, etc. If the HA agreement says you have to have a green lawn, but you need a wheelchair access ramp, the access ramp takes precedence, and then whatever lawn there is not blocked by the ramp should be maintained.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Bill wrote this stupid crap:
Nevermind the fact that a homeowners association has no legal claim to the land in the first place.
Actually, most HA's are written into the legal agreement when someone buys land and starts building the development. And if not, then they're voted on (and only a unanimous vote counts). It's a legal organization, Bill.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
[ 05-05-2003: Message edited by: Saint George ]
Granted, that's not every HA, but I still would not like the fact that I would be at the mercy of the whim of whoever is running it. I'd much rather be free to maintain my home as I see fit.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
Lyinar mentioned wanting to have a privacy fence, well here you can have a fence just not over 3 feet tall. Yes, it would be nice to block all people from seeing in your backyard sometimes but its also an eyesore(in my opnion, and others it seems). The neighborhood beside us has a few and they just seem to jet out of place.
The one complaint I have would be the rule of no Vinyl Siding on our houses, they have to be real wood. It makes no sense, because you can't even tell the differance between the two. In twenty years the woods gonna end up looking worse in this neighborhood. I think they have a petition to start allowing it, and useally petitions are answerd. [ 05-05-2003: Message edited by: Kirane ]
Here, have a brownie.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
quote:
Gydfather had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Here, have a brownie.
<hisses> Coookie better than brownie!! 
quote:
Lyinar Ka`Bael was listening to Cher while typing:
While I can see the logic of an HA, I would never want to live someplace with one myself. I am a fairly neat person. I wouldn't paint my house odd colors, or have heaps in my yard, etc. But I would be rather upset if I couldn't choose to have a privacy fence so people could not peep in at me when I'm in my backyard doing whatever I feel like, as Kirane described exists there. Or if I let my lawn go a little, someone would hire someone to cut it for me and give me the bill.Granted, that's not every HA, but I still would not like the fact that I would be at the mercy of the whim of whoever is running it. I'd much rather be free to maintain my home as I see fit.
hire someone to landscape their yard or put a pool in and give them the bill 
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The one complaint I have would be the rule of no Vinyl Siding on our houses, they have to be real wood. It makes no sense, because you can't even tell the differance between the two. In twenty years the woods gonna end up looking worse in this neighborhood. I think they have a petition to start allowing it, and useally petitions are answerd.
Actually I think vinyl siding looks like crap. Especially on houses originally made with wood siding. [ 05-05-2003: Message edited by: Kermitov ]
quote:
This one time, at Katrinity camp:
<hisses> Coookie better than brownie!!
Then give him a cookie too!
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
quote:
Nobody really understood why Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael wrote:
Actually, most HA's are written into the legal agreement when someone buys land and starts building the development. And if not, then they're voted on (and only a unanimous vote counts). It's a legal organization, Bill.
Each state in the Union has specific statutory provisions regarding the creation of such associations. It's very well-regulated, especially in Pennsylvania where we have more than 3 separate statutory schemes for creating associations.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
As said, I can see the logic, especially in suburb-like neighborhoods, but I definitely wouldn't want to live under one.
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Meridian had this to say about Duck Tales:
It's pretty easy to see who the homeowners are in this topic. We're the ones worrying about property values while Bill the Hick across the street is keeping motorbikes in his front yard and pit bulls tied to the porch.
Well as someone who is building a house I feel I fall under the "homeowner" title. And I know I would never sign away my rights os a home and property owner to a bunch of people who think they can tell me how my place should look.
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Shazorx / Modrakien had this to say about Tron:
Entering into an agreement to help each other in keeping the value of property up is a good idea in principle if not overdone. Not allowing privacy fences is overdoing it imo, I wouldn't mind living somewhere where I may have to keep my house in good shape but would be guaranteed that it's value wouldn't plummet due to some idiot collecting compost in his front yard.
Here is the problem as I see it.
Yes some rules are good. But:
1: Where does it end.
2: What some people consider good other consider bad
3: Personal property is personal property. If you don't like what I do on my land then you can /gofuck
Remember back durring the whole patriotic fever that hit after 9/11. There was a big stink around here over two HAs that would not allow American flags to be displayed. Sure you could have lawn gnomes or those dumb-ass playwood cutouts of a woman bending over in your front yard. But you could not put an American flag on your property.
Things like that really piss me off.
What if you sign one that isn't bad. But then 4 or 5 years after you move in they decide that black cars are an eyesore and suddenly you are in violation because your car happens to be black.
Or what if they decide that people must have a flower garden in thier front yard.
Sure both of these are a bit far fetched but no more so than some of the other shit that these groups do.
I'm not a messy person. My lawn is always neatly trimmed, my vinyl siding is always clean. However, I do have a sattelite dish smack in the middle of my front yard, and I do have several large steel pipes that used to be part of my carport rusting away in my side yard while they wait for the scrap collector. Neither are impacting property values (side note: an independent study conducted by ReMax concluded that a properly installed dish raises property value) but both would get me in trouble with any housing association on the planet.
Perfectly normal behaviors conducted by completely normal people causing little or no damage to property value would result in breaches of these contracts. Frankly, I just. don't. agree with it, and it shouldn't be legal to force me into surrendering my right to do these things or "look elsewhere".
Its just like a general rule I live by in anything I do. If I don't like someone else's rules, I have two options: Put up with em, or don't play with em
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Bill Model 2000 was programmed to say:
What's wrong with suing the individual personally?
But the individual is doing what THEY want with THEIR property. Why should you be able to sue them?
Or is a little honking dish?
I'd like to meet the ReMax agent who said that a nicely placed satellite dish added to the property value. Sure wasn't the one who told me that the neighbor in the back, who has a RV that's about 30 years old parked in the driveway, was a detriment to me getting the fair market value on my house! The realtor even went over and politely asked if the neighbor would be willing to move the RV, and had the door slammed in his face.
Yeah, I'm gonna sue him. And he's going to come over with a shotgun and blow me away. Loverly.
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Meridian had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Yeah, can I sue Maradon for having the big honking satellite dish in the middle of his front yard?
speaking of which, my best friend's dad has a 30' diameter dish in his back yard. Thing's impressive as all hell.
No, Really. Bite me.
quote:
How.... Bill.... uughhhhhh:
A homeowners association is not the only way to deal with people hurting your property value. What's wrong with suing the individual personally?
It's easier to claim discrimination in a suit like that.
The thing you seem to not understand is that Homeowners associations treat everyone the same. You sue me for putting up a ratty looking shed. I look next door and Bob has a ratty looking back deck. You didn't sue bob when he banged together this deck because, hey, you can't see it from across the street. Whoops, you've discriminated. The Homeowner's association would no more let bob put up his crappy deck than it would let me put up a ratty shed even though you can't even see Bob's deck. Not only are they protecting your property value but they're protecting mine, and even Bob's.
Of all the friends I know who own houses and are members of a neighborhood association only one had a bad experience, and the next time the association election came around he tried again and they let him.
For example; one thing I've been meaning to do for the longest time is put up a screen door. Why haven't I? Two reason really:
1)I'm a lazy bastige
2) I have to get a picture of the screen door I want to put on, send it to the assocation and get their approval, even if it's the exact same freakin' door everyone else in the complex has.
The simple way to do it would seem to be, "Hey, soandso has a nice looking screen door. I think I'll ask him where he got it, buy one of my own and put it up".
Obviously no one has raised hell about the other guy's door, so if I put up the same thing, it should be no harm no foul. But given the hoops I have to jump through, it just ain't gonna happen.
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Callalron wrote this stupid crap:
I'm in an association for the condo I live in. I don't really have any major beefs with them. My main complaint is that for a lot of things, it's just another layer of beaureaucratic hassle. Especially for small things.For example; one thing I've been meaning to do for the longest time is put up a screen door. Why haven't I? Two reason really:
1)I'm a lazy bastige
2) I have to get a picture of the screen door I want to put on, send it to the assocation and get their approval, even if it's the exact same freakin' door everyone else in the complex has.
The simple way to do it would seem to be, "Hey, soandso has a nice looking screen door. I think I'll ask him where he got it, buy one of my own and put it up".
Obviously no one has raised hell about the other guy's door, so if I put up the same thing, it should be no harm no foul. But given the hoops I have to jump through, it just ain't gonna happen.
probably because they want a document trail. If you go out and get a different door that everyone hates you can't just say "You told me I could!"
It would be your word against theirs. This way they say "ah ah, this is the door you said you were getting."
quote:
Bill stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
A homeowners association is not the only way to deal with people hurting your property value. What's wrong with suing the individual personally?
On unencumbered land, you have little legal ground to stand on with regards to the appearance of your neighbor's property; local property laws excepted.
This is exactly the purpose of a homeowner's association. To give teeth to your neighbors.
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Bill stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Neither are impacting property values (side note: an independent study conducted by ReMax concluded that a properly installed dish raises property value) but both would get me in trouble with any housing association on the planet.
Of course you could always appeal to the homeowner's association to have the rules changed. You'd have my wish for various degrees of good luck depending on how conservative your homeowner's association is.
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Bill stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Frankly, I just. don't. agree with it, and it shouldn't be legal to force me into surrendering my right to do these things or "look elsewhere".
You don't have a "right" to own that land. You especially don't have a "right" to own that land under whatever terms you dream up. Therefore, your rights are not being breached. I don't know where your sense of entitlement comes from, but it's entirely misplaced. The land is privately owned by someone and they won't sell it to you unless you agree to the homeowner's association's contract -- you have no ground to force them to sell you their property otherwise.
The will of a homeowner's association can not be thrust unwillingly on land you purchased unencumbered by their rules.
Alternatively, I demand that you sell me your computer. As my terms, I insist that you sell it to me for under $100 and that you pay for shipping. You have no justification for discriminating against me in refusing to sell it to me under those terms. [ 05-05-2003: Message edited by: Drysart ]
