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Everyone wondered WTF when Kegwen wrote:
Last I heard, the innocents in Iraqi territory that is not controlled by Saddam are doing just fine.
You mean...what? ..huh? Innocents in Iraqi territory not controled by Saddam?
I'm honestly not following this. 
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This insanity brought to you by Kegwen:
Yeah, I tend to piss you off a lot, it seems. =P
Not really. I just get frustrated because you never learn.
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This one time, at Kegwen camp:
Last I heard, the innocents in Iraqi territory that is not controlled by Saddam are doing just fine.
Oops, I've been saying Iraq when Saddam is in Iran haven't I? Sorry all! 
You know what I meant. 
Oh and /cheer for the non-suffering innocents! 
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Star Collective had this to say about the Spice Girls:
So you think its just propaganda then?I thought the threat of torture and rape of children while the parents were forced to watch was a little much to be made up, but hey, thats just going by what Bush said.
My first impulse was in fact, skepticism, and I would be delighted to find out Bush just cut this stuff out of whole cloth to garner more support. That means that innocents in Iraq are NOT suffering these horrors, and less human suffering = good IMO.
Mass media dramatization for ratings! woohoo!
Can't...find...concise...article...
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Suddar had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
You mean...what? ..huh? Innocents in Iraqi territory not controled by Saddam?I'm honestly not following this.
If I remember correctly, Saddam doesn't have full influence over all of Iraq. I may be completely wrong on that... but that's just what I remember hearing.
And Star Collective, you win for now. I don't feel like looking around for an appropriate article. I admit defeat. etc.
I don't know about war though.
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Suddar stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
It's more than mass media dramatization, in my probably wrong opinion. Yeah, a lot of it is when you watch the 6 o'clock news and they babble on about some new horrible thing Saddam has said or done, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of things he HAS done, and they're probably worse.I don't know about war though.
wait... which side do you guys think I'm arguing here?
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Kegwen had this to say about the Spice Girls:
If I remember correctly, Saddam doesn't have full influence over all of Iraq. I may be completely wrong on that... but that's just what I remember hearing.And Star Collective, you win for now. I don't feel like looking around for an appropriate article. I admit defeat. etc.
Defeat kershmeet, this isn't a battle, I want to find out if you know something that would shed some light on my own concerns! SO SHARE THE INFO!! Send me a PM or something.
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Kegwen wrote this stupid crap:
wait... which side do you guys think I'm arguing here?
Who cares? I just want to have my questions about this stuff answered and I'm too lazy to research it myself.
I completely misunderstood you from the beginning.
I can produce articles, though!
http://rushlimbaugh.com/home/weekend_sites/weekinreview_012003_012403/content/face_of_cnn_cant_face_loss_of_pro_saddam_ally.guest.html
http://rushlimbaugh.com/home/weekend_sites/weekinreview_012003_012403/content/across_the_fruited_plain.guest.html
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Blindy McBlinderson had this to say about dark elf butts:
Yep. the rich people get a nice huge tax cut.
etcetc
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
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Kegwen thought about the meaning of life:
Uhm... apparently I'm a fucking retard, because I thought you were arguing against Bush the entire time about how we're oh so cruel to poor, defenseless Iraq. We haven't even done anything yet.
Lol, I happen to agree with Bush's stance on Iran/Iraq/whatever, even discounting the atrocities(real or not) he's committed against his people. He violated the terms. Its time to pay the piper.
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Star Collective attempted to be funny by writing:
Lol, I happen to agree with Bush's stance on Iran/Iraq/whatever, even discounting the atrocities(real or not) he's committed against his people. He violated the terms. Its time to pay the piper.
Hehe. Again, sorry, I was completely off.
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Judge Gydyon had this to say about Knight Rider:
omg Bush sux lololrofl
My puny mortal mind is confused. Plz explain. 
I don't see the problem here.
Do they want the bottom 50% to pay 50% of the taxes with their 13% of the income?
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Check out the big brain on Kegwen!
Hehe. Again, sorry, I was completely off.
I guess I can let it go. This time. (j/k lol) Seriously though, no apology is necessary. I don't mean to badger , so I'm sorry . I just want to insure that people understand where I'm coming from.
Because it does benefit them more.
However, it's still fair.
The government is reducing the amount of money it takes in. So, why shouldn't the people who pay the MOST get the most benefit? These benefits do trickle down to the working class, however.
Basically:
If you want more benefit from the tax cut, work harder, work smarter, pay more, so you get more back. [ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: Lenny ]
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Lenny was listening to Cher while typing:
Saying 'Oh no the tax cut benefits the rich' is right.
Because it does benefit them more.However, it's still fair.
The government is reducing the amount of money it takes in. So, why shouldn't the people who pay the MOST get the most benefit? These benefits do trickle down to the working class, however.Basically:
If you want more benefit from the tax cut, work harder, work smarter, pay more, so you get more back.
I object to the logic contained in your post. It makes too much sense and indicates that you've actually considered your reply and know something about the topic.
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This one time, at Star Collective camp:
I object to the logic contained in your post. It makes too much sense and indicates that you've actually considered your reply and know something about the topic.
Curses, I've been foiled by the logic police!
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Lenny had this to say about Captain Planet:
Curses, I've been foiled by the logic police!
Surrender your intelligence and come quietly and we'll go easy on you.
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Lenny wrote this stupid crap:
Saying 'Oh no the tax cut benefits the rich' is right.
Because it does benefit them more.However, it's still fair.
The government is reducing the amount of money it takes in. So, why shouldn't the people who pay the MOST get the most benefit? These benefits do trickle down to the working class, however.Basically:
If you want more benefit from the tax cut, work harder, work smarter, pay more, so you get more back.
I agree with everything in this post except for the assumption that the tricklings will benefit the people who earn less money more than a direct tax cut would.
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How.... Blindy McBlinderson.... uughhhhhh:
I agree with everything in this post except for the assumption that the tricklings will benefit the people who earn less money more than a direct tax cut would.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think thats what its about.
The point is "the economy is being put on life support." And okay, I had a brainfart on the second part of this post. Either way, a poor guy having 10% more of his paycheck ($2000, annually, of course) isn't going to help as much as overarching buisiness growth. [ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: Suddar ]
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Kinanik was naked while typing this:
Rush Limbaugh is kinda dumb.
Sean Hannity is too much of a blind Patriot, so I didn't use him.
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A sleep deprived Suddar stammered:
I don't think the point is "here, have more money."The point is "the economy is being put on life support." And okay, I had a brainfart on the second part of this post. Either way, a poor guy having 10% more of his paycheck ($2000, annually, of course) isn't going to help as much as overarching buisiness growth.
See this is where I disagree. You give half the population of the united states.. i think it's currently 275 million people... a $2000 annual tax cut.
You're right, it seems like chump change, chances are they are just going to spend it... that means (137.5 million * $2,000 = )$275,000,000,000 more in revenue for the buisnesses of the US, and that much more nice things for the bottom 50% of the population, which means that buisness owners get more money from their buisnesses because there is simply that much revenue, and since they pay a greater percentage of taxes, the returns on their earnings for the government would be alot more.
Trickle up method, anyone?
There is no such thing as the "trickle down theory." It's an economic fallacy, a pure straw man. No economist has ever proposed any theory.
Cuts in tax rates are supposed to do what every tax cut has done in the past. Produce an increase in economic activity.
FYI, it wasn't just Reagan, Bush Sr., and Dubya that believed in them. JFK did the same thing. In every case the government recieved more tax revenue from the resulting rise in economic activity compared to what it gained when rates were higher.
The government can only cut the rates. How much revenue they receive or lose will only be found out later. Immediate tax cuts provide immediate results. Spreading out the cuts is done to gain political support, while giving people incentive to wait before investing their money.
The only folks who get tax cuts are people who pay taxes. The "tax cut for the rich" myth comes from the fact the rates are so skewed. A small percentage of the general population pays the biggest percent of taxes at any given time. Hence any large tax cut will appear as tax cuts for the wealthy.
The economy has to be seen as more than money. Income and wealth are made up of other things... Shelter, property, cars, factories, etc. etc. etc.
To give the economy a boost means you need to increase production. It requires more hirings, more work done, more production, and changing people's behavior on spending.
Cutting taxes on dividends isn't to get people to spend more money, if they even recieve those dividends. It's about getting them to invest now, to create jobs, so employment and production output rise.
P. S. [ 01-29-2003: Message edited by: Wetsart ]
Before any flames are presented, please be aware of the following facts: I hold a degree in Economics and Political Science. I do work in the field.
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Tier Model 2000 was programmed to say:
There was an article about it 2 issues of Discover ago. If I remember correctly... Ford and 2 japanese companies were already releasing hybrid fuel cell engines. I thought I would definitely get one once they're widespread.
It's a truly unique idea, separating the parts of the water molecule to power an engine.
At least that was the process described in my chem book. Have to dig it out for specifics.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
Let me see if I have this straight. The whole point of cutting taxes to businesses is to decrease unemployment by encouraging investment, which is in turn done by giving the wealthy more money to invest. Yet the objective of the invester is to make more money, which means that they won't invest more than (or even as much as) they can get back.
You haven't denied that Bush's tax cuts are pointed at the rich. You have instead claimed that all tax cuts are pointed at the rich. That isn't true. The target group of a tax cut is the group who is most significantly targeted or impacted by a change. For example, if a revision to the federal income tax plan lowers the percentage paid on income over 1 million dollars per year, that affects only the rich. Conversely, reduced income tax percentage on the first $50K of income targets those families for which $50K constitutes either all or the vast majority of their annual salaries. The same principle applies to tax breaks on purchases, or pretty much anything else.
As for the budget as a whole, consider that he's trying to implement new programs, wage war, and cut taxes (regardless of who benefits from the cut). This means he's dipping heavily into the "may I borrow this" pool, i.e. boosting the national debt. If memory serves, nearly a third of tax revenues now go to payment of interest on the national debt. This was largely caused by two presidents: FDR who had a national depression to deal with, and Ronald Reagan who decided to out-spend the Soviet Union. I won't go into the reasons or any personal views of whether it was a good or bad idea at the time; the fact remains that we owe a lot of money (see the debt counter posted earlier in this thread). And the more we owe, the worse off we'll be in the long run.
Finally, coming back to the point you made to justify the tax cut (to the rich, yadda yadda), just because the rich have more money to spend doesn't mean they'll spend it on everything you seem to expect. Yes, they'll invest. They'll invest in businesses, which will hire & buy resources to increase production. They'll make these investments both domestically and internationally (the national debt doesn't come into play on this point), which means that it's not just the US getting new jobs. Competition for workers won't become so fierce as to raise salaries because of the need to keep domestic costs lower or equal to the cost of foreign labor. It will probably reduce US unemployment, but that's as much as you get, and you might not even get that to the extent you're counting on.
So on the whole, you're still looking at a "trickle-down theory". You're just not calling it that. I'm not an economist, so if you can address the concerns I've put forward, I'm interested. My argument is based on a few economics courses, and a whole lot of logic.
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Kinanik spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Rush Limbaugh is kinda dumb.
Not to mention lies constantly
Oh yeah, he seems to hate women/gays/minorities too
example:
[ 01-29-2003: Message edited by: Ford Prefect ]
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From the book of Kegwen, chapter 3, verse 16:
If that man copied the word of God EXACTLY people would dismiss it as a lie.
There is no God, thus anything he copied saying it was the word of God would by default by a lie.
(And the random quote thing scares me sometimes.)
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Frog had this to say about Optimus Prime:
There is no God.
Says you, frog boy.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
(LOLOLOLOLZ I MADE A GYDYON SUE SOMEBODY JOKE LOLOLOLOLZ)
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Frog wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
I'm just a Heathen unbeliever who is on his way to Hell. Maybe you can sue the Devil for my soul when I die.(LOLOLOLOLZ I MADE A GYDYON SUE SOMEBODY JOKE LOLOLOLOLZ)
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
