quote:

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So quoth Pesco:
I read to here then couldnt stop laughing....

Oh yea... Warriors can get around 8000 HP. /pwned

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6k is better then what a monk/rogue/SK would get on average.

Dont even gimme that crap about a warrior keeping taunt. Every damned one I see sucks ass at it. And I've seen a lot.

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There was much rejoicing when Delphi Aegis said this:
I'm hazarding a guess that its on a mob where a defensive warrior CAN NOT keep taunt whatsoever. Lets face it, warriors SUCK in the taunt department. Epics, primal, whatever the fuck you stick on 'em, they suck ass at it. more then 3/4 of the way through Rhag 1, I (for the hell of it) Decided to stun my bloody heart out. Stun, HM, Force. BOOM, as soon as force hit, instant aggro, and I wuz dead in about 5 seconds. Heh. Was great.

Still like to know.

(For the record, a guild I know on Quell has a 60th pally as their MT half the time. With decent equipment (Decent. Kay? Not Ro armor.), he can have upwards of 6k hp with buffs. Pizowned.

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1. Warriors using Defensive can keep taunt just fine, especially if they have Epic/Willsapper and beg from the mob.

2. Afore said warrior has an even greater chance of keeping aggro if people do as they are asked to on a raid, such as not taunting/kicking/trying things out for the hell of it.

3. If you buffing normal like you buff for a raid, you can even get casters that are wearing HP gear (for god knows what reason) up to that much HPs.

I'm sure that Paladins make great MTs if they know what they are doing and so does the rest of the guild that is raiding that day. Warriors just have the ability to avoid getting torn to shreds as fast as paladins do.

I'm talking about group sit-yations. Dont get much xp on a raid, I'll bet. Keeping one target to heal is always a good thing. I usually volunteer, because the cleric doesnt have to waste 1k mana on me buffing, since they're already there to a degree, and I keep the taunt well.

Nowhere did I say that warriors cant take a hit as well, nor stay alive as long as a pally.. they just suck for taunting, 'specially against a decent pally.

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Delphi Aegis thought about the meaning of life:
6k is better then what a monk/rogue/SK would get on average.

Dont even gimme that crap about a warrior keeping taunt. Every damned one I see sucks ass at it. And I've seen a lot.

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SKs are on the same HP tables as you are.. so they can get the same HPs as you, so dont give me any of that shit.

And you are an idiot to think that warriors cant taunt. Just because you can gather aggro with spells doesnt mean jack freaking shit. I can gain aggro faster then you can... whooptie doo. I dont claim I'm a better tank. Warriors get and hold aggro just fine.

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We were all impressed when Delphi Aegis wrote:
Thats a point that I stress, Ferret. A lot of times, I do sit back on a raid and just let the MT handle it. Why waste my group's cleric's mana, right?

I'm talking about group sit-yations. Dont get much xp on a raid, I'll bet. Keeping one target to heal is always a good thing. I usually volunteer, because the cleric doesnt have to waste 1k mana on me buffing, since they're already there to a degree, and I keep the taunt well.

Nowhere did I say that warriors cant take a hit as well, nor stay alive as long as a pally.. they just suck for taunting, 'specially against a decent pally.

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In EXP groups I can honestly say that if they designate me as the main tank I have never unintentionally lost aggro, except for small amounts of times when rogues backstab. I'm sure that not having/using defensive counts for my damage output a little bit, but I have also grouped with multiple paladins at once, all stunning and bashing like mad, and they never seem to draw the mob's attention away.

I see it more as not having the ability to taunt, but knowing WHEN to taunt. If you just sit there clicking it when ever it comes up, a good run of straight nukage could send the mob onto another melee. If you conserve it and just push it when you need to, ie when ever it turns away from you for a second, a warrior stands a much better chance of keeping aggro.

Oh, isn't it Situations?

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Ferret ]

(2) Paladins and SKs can hold taunt better, ASSUMING THEY HAVE MANA. They can load up the HP (I know 2 Pallies in Fu that get 6k+ HP and my roommate's 56th SK gets over 4k) and still come out with better AC.

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From the book of Random Insanity Generator, chapter 3, verse 16:
(1) Spell stacking issues gets Warriors to 8k. "Honest" buffing gets them to the upper ends of 6k.

(2) Paladins and SKs can hold taunt better, ASSUMING THEY HAVE MANA. They can load up the HP (I know 2 Pallies in Fu that get 6k+ HP and my roommate's 56th SK gets over 4k) and still come out with better AC.

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Heh, Damn. I thought nobody would harp on the "But you need mana to keep taunt. Warriors dont!" point. Shoot.

I remember a superlong fight in seb, though. KEI and SoS up, trying to fight CHing fungi with another 60th pally. CHAINcasting Holy Might, Thunder of Karana, and Force whenever they came up, for a good 5-10 minutes, and I had about 2 bubbles of mana left. Heck, that was before I got my uber 35 mana/hp Shissar Scale tunic, too.
We survived. Yay us!

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Verily, Delphi Aegis doth proclaim:
I'm hazarding a guess that its on a mob where a defensive warrior CAN NOT keep taunt whatsoever. Lets face it, warriors SUCK in the taunt department. Epics, primal, whatever the fuck you stick on 'em, they suck ass at it. more then 3/4 of the way through Rhag 1, I (for the hell of it) Decided to stun my bloody heart out. Stun, HM, Force. BOOM, as soon as force hit, instant aggro, and I wuz dead in about 5 seconds. Heh. Was great.

Still like to know.

(For the record, a guild I know on Quell has a 60th pally as their MT half the time. With decent equipment (Decent. Kay? Not Ro armor.), he can have upwards of 6k hp with buffs. Pizowned.

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Warriors do not suck in the taunt department 'properly' equiped. Hategiver / SoD / Whip...makes them excellent taunt machines.

6k hp? Our MT has 5200 hp "unbuffed". Toss him:

Aego 1100
Focus 525
Brells 300
Stamina 200

And if you want to use the bug to stack focus and group focus...add another 500.

I know PALs and SKs can taunt good, but anyone who would let a PAL or SK tank something that hits 800+ would be smoking a whole lot of crack. You simply do not let a class thats 2nd or 3rd best at tanking go up against an uber mob...you use a warrior.

[ 05-10-2002: Message edited by: Reynar ]

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Reynar was listening to Cher while typing:

Warriors do not suck in the taunt department 'properly' equiped. Hategiver / SoD / Whip...makes them excellent taunt machines.

6k hp? Our MT has 5200 hp "unbuffed". Toss him:

Aego 1100
Focus 525
Brells 300
Stamina 200

And if you want to use the bug to stack focus and group focus...add another 500.

I know PALs and SKs can taunt good, but anyone who would let a PAL or SK tank something that hits 800+ would be smoking a whole lot of crack. You simply do not let a class thats 2nd or 3rd best at tanking go up against an uber mob...you use a warrior.

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See? We agree. Never said I was the best tank, just that I was one of the best at keeping aggro, which I've found that most warriors in group situations, tend not to be good at.

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Black Mage's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
You act like keeping argo is actually worthwhile to brag about.

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It is when you tank better than Rangers.

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RPC had this to say about Optimus Prime:
It is when you tank better than Rangers.

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Rangers shouldn't even be within melee range. They should be back with the casters shooting arrows at the mob. If your rangers are using their swords, give them a good slapping

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So quoth Reynar:
Rangers shouldn't even be within melee range. They should be back with the casters shooting arrows at the mob. If your rangers are using their swords, give them a good slapping

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Eh... Sometimes Rangers are forced to use melee. Stupid Toe-In-Object bug... there are ways to get around it, but speaking from experience, it is a pain in the ass.

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Reynar had this to say about (_|_):
Rangers shouldn't even be within melee range. They should be back with the casters shooting arrows at the mob. If your rangers are using their swords, give them a good slapping

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I was just talking about in an XP group.

I tank better than a Ranger and I can hold aggro better than a Bard.... wait.. being more annoying than a Bard isn't a good thing, is it?

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RPC had this to say about Captain Planet:
I was just talking about in an XP group.

I tank better than a Ranger and I can hold aggro better than a Bard.... wait.. being more annoying than a Bard isn't a good thing, is it?

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AM outdamages melee in any situation

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Pesco had this to say about Duck Tales:
Eh... Sometimes Rangers are forced to use melee. Stupid Toe-In-Object bug... there are ways to get around it, but speaking from experience, it is a pain in the ass.

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I was just making a generalization =) Yea there are some fights where archery isn't a valid way to fight. Though bows are a life saver on some mobs which have a melee bubble the size of a gnome.

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Pesco stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
AM outdamages melee in any situation

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..... ok.

Who's doing Melee?

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So quoth RPC:
..... ok.

Who's doing Melee?

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Ranger trueshot outdamages 'any' melee.
Yes, even rogues.

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A sleep deprived Reynar stammered:

Ranger trueshot outdamages 'any' melee.
Yes, even rogues.

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/boggle

I watch rogues routinely double BS for 1400+, sometimes getting over 1600... and they can out do that?

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There was much rejoicing when RPC said this:
/boggle

I watch rogues routinely double BS for 1400+, sometimes getting over 1600... and they can out do that?

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Rangers with AM3 + Trueshot regularly do 500+ damage *non-crit* with crits going to 2000+.

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RPC had this to say about Duck Tales:
/boggle

I watch rogues routinely double BS for 1400+, sometimes getting over 1600... and they can out do that?

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Last Avatar of War kill our top 2 dmg dealers were rangers, both with over 50,000+ dmg each. Followed by rogues between 30-40k

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Pesco obviously shouldn't have said:
Confirmed... Wood Elves can make 12 dmg arrows. Archery just got ALOT meaner.

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I dont think VI was thinking too much when they did that...

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Reynar had this to say about Optimus Prime:
I dont think VI was thinking too much when they did that...

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Reynar had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
I dont think VI was thinking too much when they did that...

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Pesco shouts, "INCOMING >> 17 DMG Rogue Dagger <<"

1:1 ratios or better, 100 dmg lifetap procs, etc.

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Black Mage thought about the meaning of life:
Monk 1h weapons are going to be sick soon

1:1 ratios or better, 100 dmg lifetap procs, etc.

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The shadow knight shissar bane weapon is 12/20, then 8 shissar bane dmg...yey 20/20 vs snakes

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Reynar had this to say about John Romero:
The shadow knight shissar bane weapon is 12/20, then 8 shissar bane dmg...yey 20/20 vs snakes

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Fewlio!

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Black Mage had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
[QUOTE]Reynar had this to say about John Romero:
[qb]The shadow knight shissar bane weapon is 12/20, then 8 shissar bane dmg...yey 20/20 vs snakes

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Fewlio! [/QB][/QUOTE]

20/20 manhand and primal offhand would ownz0r.

16/19 and 17/20

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Black Mage had this to say about the Spice Girls:
I think the best setup for a monk atm is Gharns in main (Doesn't drop anymore) and the Golden Ulak (Creator drop I think.)

16/19 and 17/20

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If you dont mind swapping one of those out to proc primal every fight then yes. Otherwise theres not much sense in doubling up.

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Reynar had this to say about the Spice Girls:

If you dont mind swapping one of those out to proc primal every fight then yes. Otherwise theres not much sense in doubling up.

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Black Mage had this to say about Tron:
That's what most people do anyways

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It gets old really quick

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Reynar had this to say about Cuba:
It gets old really quick

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Black Mage painfully thought these words up:
[QUOTE]Reynar had this to say about Cuba:
[qb]It gets old really quick

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Farm key components for 12 hours with 2 drops and see how eager you are to keep switching your offhand =)

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This insanity brought to you by Reynar:

Farm key components for 12 hours with 2 drops and see how eager you are to keep switching your offhand =)

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... LIKE A FOX.

Granted if I ever lay my hands on Primal anything Hell will have frozen over and Everquest will be bug free.

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Verily, Black Mage doth proclaim:
Monk 1h weapons are going to be sick soon

1:1 ratios or better, 100 dmg lifetap procs, etc.

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Now that they can do H2H class weapons, I expect any new "uber" weapons for monks will be along those lines.

Everyone DOES have their H2H skill capped on their monk, right?