Don't forget the Ultra Biggie fries.

quote:

---

Pesco had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Predict the outcome of an in-person relationship. I dare you.

Same thing applies.. you cant

I am now going to lunch, anyone want a Frosty?

---

I never claimed the ability to do that, either. Did I?

Is it your contention that online relationships have the same overall chances of success as in-person ones? After telling us how much better the real one was, and of the difficulties associated with being separate?

I don't think so.

Everyone else has. if you havn't noticed, We've moved onto Frosties and brownies.

Hands Sage a french fry.

Love is MUCH more than just the desire for two hearts to be together. It is the togetherness.. the companionship that gets you through the rough times. (and there will always be rough times for everyone)

You can test the waters of companionship online, but no matter how hard you try to be honest with your partner, no matter how hard you try to make it real - you never will know if you can live with that person until you actually do.

Many people get wrapped up in the glory of a text based relationship and shrug off the fact that there are many many aspects of their partners that they do not know. "Our love is so strong we can get through anything." The fact is you just don't know.

I met someone online many years ago. He was charming, intelligent, and eloquent. He was also from Sweden. We met on a MUD. We started spending more and more time together online.. we talked on the phone as much as we could afford. We even visited each other back and forth. Everything seemed wonderful. He proposed, I accepted. We got him a visa and he moved here to the states. A week later it became very apparant that he had a very violent and aggressive side. We weren't together more than a few months before I fled the relationship.

I felt strong enough for the person he presented himself to be as to marry him. In reality, he couldn't overcome the sides of himself that he hid from me online. I could not live with him because he frightened me.

You can find things to love about anyone. There are precious few that you can love and live with and look forward to every single day for the rest of your life.

quote:

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Gikkwiny had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Sage.. dude.. let it DIE.

Everyone else has. if you havn't noticed, We've moved onto Frosties and brownies.

Hands Sage a french fry.

---

Ah, yes. The plea to "just let it die" from the person who rolled in on page 2, after everyone had agreed, and flamed me without basis.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is pure comedy gold!

Sorry, but saying stupid shit then immediately calling for a truce is not an option.

So like I said. Let it die.

quote:

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Piper had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Its much easier to foster affection for people you meet online simply because you can be whoever you *want* to be. The vast majority of people put their best foot forward when making an impression and edit out all the foolish things they might have slipped and said, all the annoying mannerisms that have developed over the years.

Love is MUCH more than just the desire for two hearts to be together. It is the togetherness.. the companionship that gets you through the rough times. (and there will always be rough times for everyone)

You can test the waters of companionship online, but no matter how hard you try to be honest with your partner, no matter how hard you try to make it real - you never will know if you can live with that person until you actually do.

Many people get wrapped up in the glory of a text based relationship and shrug off the fact that there are many many aspects of their partners that they do not know. "Our love is so strong we can get through anything." The fact is you just don't know.

I met someone online many years ago. He was charming, intelligent, and eloquent. He was also from Sweden. We met on a MUD. We started spending more and more time together online.. we talked on the phone as much as we could afford. We even visited each other back and forth. Everything seemed wonderful. He proposed, I accepted. We got him a visa and he moved here to the states. A week later it became very apparant that he had a very violent and aggressive side. We weren't together more than a few months before I fled the relationship.

I felt strong enough for the person he presented himself to be as to marry him. In reality, he couldn't overcome the sides of himself that he hid from me online. I could not live with him because he frightened me.

You can find things to love about anyone. There are precious few that you can love and live with and look forward to every single day for the rest of your life.

---

Yup. can't agree with you more, piper. If stuff between me and Chris work out, Huzzah.. if it doesn't, then, well, it doesn't. We move on. there's 3 billion (roughly) other men in this world, I bet I coudl find someone I was relitvily happy with.

quote:

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Gikkwiny had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
You already called me on shit. So i considered that ended.. I let it go. I didn't argue back. The only thing I said was thret are bad, cause ya know, they are. Pople don't threaten me.

So like I said. Let it die.

---

Ah, yes.

It's all right to flame me when you've got nearly all of your facts wrong, but when I warn you to back off, I'm being bad and "threatening"?

People don't threaten you? Looks like I just did. Deal.

When--or if--I "let it die" is not your call. You fucked up; creating more conflict by interjecting your silliness into things not directed at or about you doesn't make anything better.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

{edit: misquote}

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Bloodsage ]

quote:

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Bloodsage painfully thought these words up:
I never claimed the ability to do that, either. Did I?

Is it your contention that online relationships have the same overall chances of success as in-person ones? After telling us how much better the real one was, and of the difficulties associated with being separate?

I don't think so.

---

Nope, you havent outright, but you damn well inferred it.

And, actually yes....

A relationship either works or it doesnt... there isnt really much middle ground. One maybe tougher then the other to deal with, but that doesnt change the possiblity of success. It either happens or it doesnt. Period.

I'm well aware of how much better it feels in person. But it doesnt make me love her any less when we are seperated. It is just another hurdle to be overcome, there are alot of those in relationships, as I'm sure you already know.

Plus, you cant really label a success rate on something that involves 2 people's feelings. It is based off the individuals, not society as a whole.

Again.. it either works or it doesnt... People will date alot before finally settling down with someone. All the same rules apply, just different methods of execution.

As for me I have never had any luck with online relationships.

My 1st in eq wife turned out to be 35 years old and married, she thought I was 30 something.

My 2nd turned out to be a gold digger.

quote:

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Pesco said this about your mom:
Nope, you havent outright, but you damn well inferred it.

And, actually yes....

A relationship either works or it doesnt... there isnt really much middle ground. One maybe tougher then the other to deal with, but that doesnt change the possiblity of success. It either happens or it doesnt. Period.

I'm well aware of how much better it feels in person. But it doesnt make me love her any less when we are seperated. It is just another hurdle to be overcome, there are alot of those in relationships, as I'm sure you already know.

Plus, you cant really label a success rate on something that involves 2 people's feelings. It is based off the individuals, not society as a whole.

Again.. it either works or it doesnt... People will date alot before finally settling down with someone. All the same rules apply, just different methods of execution.

---

And online can only ever be a prelude to a real relationship of the type we are discussing.

As you've said, in-person relationships are easier. It therefore stands to reason that, on the whole, attempting something easier has a better chance at success than attempting something harder.

And if you are looking for the easy route to love... then well... THAT, if anything, is what will doom you to failure.

...What? :P

Actual love isn't really possible without meeting. I thought we made that clear pages ago.

Like Piper said. And several others.

One may meet online, sure. But that can't be the extent of the relationship. Otherwise it's just an acquaintance, or sybar, or an infatuation, or something real awaiting the chance to happen.

Tell me how a relationship based upon a medium that denies most of the communication possible in a personal relationship can have the same chance of success, and I'll grant your point. But you've offered only assertions without support.

So I'm skeptical.

quote:

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We were all impressed when Lenlalron wrote:
Online relationships exist for people like me, who suck at getting in-person relationships with the opposite sex.

...What? :P

---

Get in chat, bish.

quote:

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How.... Giantt.... uughhhhhh:
Get in chat, bish.

---

I'm at school for...about 2:30 hours. And my weekday times are limited.

PM me.

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Lenlalron ]

quote:

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Pesco's fortune cookie read:
Nope, you havent outright, but you damn well inferred it.

And, actually yes....

A relationship either works or it doesnt... there isnt really much middle ground. One maybe tougher then the other to deal with, but that doesnt change the possiblity of success. It either happens or it doesnt. Period.

I'm well aware of how much better it feels in person. But it doesnt make me love her any less when we are seperated. It is just another hurdle to be overcome, there are alot of those in relationships, as I'm sure you already know.

Plus, you cant really label a success rate on something that involves 2 people's feelings. It is based off the individuals, not society as a whole.

Again.. it either works or it doesnt... People will date alot before finally settling down with someone. All the same rules apply, just different methods of execution.

---

Preach it, brother.

And 'Sage, I think a major sticking point was you saying, without qualifier, that "real life relationships are easier."

Well, for me, a real life relationship was (obviously) impossible. Or at least, I wasn't able to start a romantic real life relationship.

My relationship with Amanda is "real life" in my mind and hers, and that's what matters.

But yeah, if those problems never came up so frequently, we'd probably still be together.

Yeah, I know I'm late on this, but this thread was made while I was done-in for the night.

I consider my relationship currently an "Online" Relationship, regardless of the fact I can and do see her in person and talk to her on the phone. It is the primary medium for now. We all know what the ultimate end to a great relationship is, and that is a nice long happy marriage ( it doesnt have to end up in marriage, but that is the most common gesture of eternal love for someone ). And that is very achievable through a beginning on the 'net. Or say... a telephone / video dating service.. a PenPal... a Blind Date... Meeting someone in a bar. They all start in different places yet end up in the same spot. It is like this weird mountain that you are always climbing to the top of. A nice broad base, and it gets thinner as you approach the peak. There are general basic levels...
- Meeting the person
- Getting to know the person
- Finding feelings for the person
- Progressing the relationship at a distance
- Progressing the relationship together

It can fail at any point.

I r l33+ speelr

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Pesco ]

quote:

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So quoth Mightion Defensor:
Preach it, brother.

And 'Sage, I think a major sticking point was you saying, without qualifier, that "real life relationships are easier."

Well, for me, a real life relationship was (obviously) impossible. Or at least, I wasn't able to start a romantic real life relationship.

My relationship with Amanda is "real life" in my mind and hers, and that's what matters.

---

They are.

As well as being a poor substitute for a real one.

I'm all for "take what you can get, rather than go without." Honest.

But there are serious drawbacks to an online relationship that simply don't exist in personal interaction.

And what Piper said.

quote:

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A sleep deprived Bloodsage stammered:
They are.

---

Ah, but you now have a real-life instance of someone (me) for whom an online relationship was easier, thus making the continued use of absolutes illogical.

quote:

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As well as being a poor substitute for a real one.

---

Funny, I don't get off the phone or YIM/EQ with Amanda and say "That was a poor substitute." On the contrary, I feel absolutely friggin' spiffy.

quote:

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I'm all for "take what you can get, rather than go without." Honest.

But there are serious drawbacks to an online relationship that simply don't exist in personal interaction.

And what Piper said.

---

And I say any such drawbacks can be compensated for. Who is to say personal interations can only happen when the people are in the same room?

Most of the information conveyed in personal interaction is nonverbal. Much of that is usually also unconscious.

That is totally lacking in an online relationship.

It's the difference between Boone's Farm and Dom Perignon. Sure, one may be completely satisfied with Boone's Farm. It may even be all one can afford, and I'd never begrudge anyone that. But let's just admit up front that there's a qualitative difference in the products, okay?

You may be completely satisfied to miss the rich texture and depth of a personal relationship, but please don't tell me you're not missing anything by not being together. That's obviously not true, isn't it?

{edit: add} Meant to add that "a real-life example" is meaningless in context of the discussion. Testimonials are no more than data points. Someone won the lottery, perhaps, but they defied 100,000,000:1 odds to do so. Where will you invest your paycheck?

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Bloodsage ]

quote:

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Bloodsage's account was hax0red to write:
You did read the rest of the thread, right?

Most of the information conveyed in personal interaction is nonverbal. Much of that is usually also unconscious.

That is totally lacking in an online relationship.

It's the difference between Boone's Farm and Dom Perignon. Sure, one may be completely satisfied with Boone's Farm. It may even be all one can afford, and I'd never begrudge anyone that. But let's just admit up front that there's a qualitative difference in the products, okay?

You may be completely satisfied to miss the rich texture and depth of a personal relationship, but please don't tell me you're not missing anything by not being together. That's obviously not true, isn't it?

---

I never said I wasn't missing anything. I just disagreed that the lack of it invalidated the relationship somehow.

I can't hold Amanda in my arms right now. I can't cuddle up with her and watch a movie. Yes, we miss that depth of detail and texture you refer to.

But that doesn't mean it can't be true love.

EDIT: Saw your add. I was mainly being a smart-aleck, but my point about the use of absolutes it still valid, is it not?

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Mightion Defensor ]

I've been in a few online relationships. Plus I've been the target of far too many people who pretend their vampires simply for the h0t syb4r. I'm in one now, and with any luck and damn the finances, I'm going to see him in summer. It's been a weird ride, but honestly... the ride's not been any wierder than it would have been if it were a real, face-to-face one. And I'm happy. That's the biggest indication to me that these things work... I'm happy in the relationship and want to see it thrive, want to be with him...

Online relationships aren't doomed from the start. It's a different medium. Honestly... I have NO LUCK WHATSOEVER meeting guys in real life. It seems I have a semiattractive body and people want to have sex with it. However, I as a person, am freakishly insecure about it. If someone I did not know told me they wanted to have sex with me, to my face, in real life, I'd prolly burst out laughing. While online I can be a big huge flirt, in real life, well... I sorta exude this aura of malice, and purposely try to drive people away. I'd never approach anyone, and no one would approach me. That kinda puts a damper on things, yeah .

But, well... online I'm not inhibited by the evils of my body. It's a big thing for me. A really big thing for me. The only thing keeping my raging, obnoxious personality in check is the intense fear I'll look even uglier than I think I normally do. When I don't have to worry about people judging me based on the number of freckles on my nose, I can just be... me. And that helps.

It's just a different medium. Online relationships have downfalls, true... the guy could be married, older, a rapist, or not a guy at all. But real life ones have downfalls, too... the guy you're chatting up in a bar could be a wifebeater, could be married, could be going in and out of prison, hell, could have just slipped something in your Guinness. You have to be wary of the pitfalls online just as you have to be wary of the pitfalls in real life. It's not any better, or any worse... just different. And I have no problem with that.

Or, look what Piper said.

A relationship may begin online, though that's far short of optimum. It can only become true love through personal interaction, however.

quote:

---

Mortious said this about your mom:
Someone please humour the brit. WTF is a Frosty?

---

It's a Wendy's brand milkshake. More like ice cream in a cup.

If a peice of buttered bread slides off a counter, or plate, it will always land butter side down.
Why?
Simple.
When it falls off the edge, it starts spinning. It spins at a regular rate every time it falls. Because it does this, you can predict how high it must fall from in order to fall butter side up.
That is about 10 feet up in the air.

And way back on the first page when Mort did a reply to my vent, cos i'm too lazy to quote him...
I'm better off without her.

quote:

---

Delphi Aegis had this to say about Knight Rider:
Because I'm a fact freak, I have to flame bloodsage.

If a peice of buttered bread slides off a counter, or plate, it will always land butter side down.
Why?
Simple.
When it falls off the edge, it starts spinning. It spins at a regular rate every time it falls. Because it does this, you can predict how high it must fall from in order to fall butter side up.
That is about 10 feet up in the air.

And way back on the first page when Mort did a reply to my vent, cos i'm too lazy to quote him...
I'm better off without her.

---

Only if it slides off a counter. And then you can only calculate the required distance if you know the speed at which it slid off the edge, and thus the rotation imparted.

But if you're a fact freak, you'll also not that I didn't constrain the example to when buttered bread slides off a counter. It can also be dropped at various velocities and rotation rates.

Neener.

About a year ago, I met this wonderful girl. She was everything I wanted in a girl: Smart, funny, witty, intelligent, beautiful.. she sent me picture after picture. A young, beautiful woman with golden hair that you could get lost in for days.

Then I met 'her' in real life and discovered 'she' was a 30 year old Lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force with a dog that was bigger than me.

My heart is still broken.

quote:

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Comrade_Snoota had this to say about Knight Rider:
Let me tell you a little story.

About a year ago, I met this wonderful girl. She was everything I wanted in a girl: Smart, funny, witty, intelligent, beautiful.. she sent me picture after picture. A young, beautiful woman with golden hair that you could get lost in for days.

Then I met 'her' in real life and discovered 'she' was a 30 year old Lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force with a dog that was bigger than me.

My heart is still broken.

---

YOU TOO? She was the only girl nice to me.

Admit it: you got pwned, bish!

I proposed in the chat room (initially). Symbolic gesture I think.

We got married.

It's been 3.5 years and we're happier than ever.

I think it all kind of depends on the "nature" of the relationship from the beginning. You know... what basis the relationship started on. blah blah blah... I'm too stupid to try to tell you that not ALL online relationships are bad.

Edit: points added. typos editted.

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Woody ]

quote:

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Woody probably says this to all the girls:
My wife and I met online. We talked in a chat room. We talked on the phone. She came to visit. She came to visit again... and again. (no small trip... Illinois to Georgia)

I proposed in the chat room (initially). Symbolic gesture I think.

We got married.

It's been 3.5 years and we're happier than ever.

I think it all kind of depends on the "nature" of the relationship from the beginning. You know... what basis the relationship started on. blah blah blah... I'm too stupid to try to tell you that not ALL online relationships are bad.

Edit: points added. typos editted.

---

Does she make you muffins?

quote:

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Bloodsage had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Er?

Actual love isn't really possible without meeting. I thought we made that clear pages ago.

Like Piper said. And several others.

One may meet online, sure. But that can't be the extent of the relationship. Otherwise it's just an acquaintance, or sybar, or an infatuation, or something real awaiting the chance to happen.

Tell me how a relationship based upon a medium that denies most of the communication possible in a personal relationship can have the same chance of success, and I'll grant your point. But you've offered only assertions without support.

So I'm skeptical.

---

I can't really agree with this, Sage. I met Deth when I was 16. We had our ups and downs, I was even with another guy for a while, but I always felt something missing. Deth's always been the one that could soothe anything wrong with me. He's always been the person I had to have in my life, or it wasn't the best it could be. I love Deth, more than anyone else I've ever cared for. And I have since I was 16 years old, long before we met recently.

So I do think it's possible to be in actual love before you meet face to face. I feel the same for Deth now as I always did before I met him. I needed no verification that he was perfect for me. Meeting in real life was just icing on the cake, not the realization I really did love him.