Who needs a reality check? Maradon intends to get into VR and all that. Soooo he's pursuing his dream. I intend to be a teacher, so I pursue my dream.

If anyone bothered to read my initial post you'd see why comics are important to me, and you'd see what influence they have on my life. I wish I could be a superhero. I wish that lifestyle was real, that that world was real. There are no metahumans, there are no mutants of the comic variety. Comics are a metaphor to me, a metaphor drawn in glorious images and told with the writing ability of some of the finest scribes alive. They're metaphors for the human experience, and what sorts of things we aspire to, or reflect on the experiences some of us have.

The comment about "geekish angst" is an insult, spoken by someone who can't see past the 80's media blitz that comics are evil and bad. There's nothing angsty about my posts. I have an unattainable dream I can't live up to, but I try to live by a philosophy in part taken from the ideas set forth in the comic book media. I love my life, I revel in it. My life's only getting better, and it's going to lead me to help other people make their lives better.

I fail to see where joining the military or needing a reality check comes into play. I fail to see where I've given any indication of geekish angst. I fail to see where this attitude of put up or shut up fits into the conversation, put about by accusing someone of not being willing to do what they say they aspire to in this little gem of commentary:

quote:

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Ah, so you like the idea of being a hero--as long as it doesn't involve discomfort, inconvenience, or self-sacrifice? I think you've discovered the difference between "superhero" and "wannabe."

---

Who are you to say? Who are you to judge another man, or the sacrifices they make? Who are you to say that someone isn't willing to make the extra effort when necessary? Some of the greatest heroes are the ones who didn't get in the game, so to speak, until they were really tested. And some of the greatest heroes are the ones who do what they do every day without being part of the bigger epic storyline.

Either way you simply don't understand the conversation, as your damned fool comments elaborate. And that offends me. Greatly.

quote:

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Lyinar wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Okay, Otaku

Maradon starts a thread telling Deth they have a similar interest in superheroes. Maradon says he has an aspiration to be the same.

Sage posts that he should join the military. Maradon gives him reasons why the military is not for him.

Sage posts again talking about how Maradon likes the idea of being a hero, but he must not like discomfort, inconvenience or self-sacrifice. All Maradon said was he didn't want to uproot himself to go to military school.

Maradon only said he didn't want to be in the military, not that he didn't want to be in anything that could be construed as heroic. Sage implied with his post that the only way to be heroic was join the military.

Sage attacked him for a personal choice, basically saying he was selfish, just because he had very valid reasons not to join the miliary. Sorry, but I see a problem in insulting someone just because they don't choose the same path you did.

---

No, I didn't, as a matter of fact.

Read the fucking thread!

I rather explicitly corrected that impression when it was first brought to my attention. I've since mentioned that several times.

Are you blind, or do you just like looking stupid?

And go away. Or contribute something to the conversation.

quote:

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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael was all like:
Read my last post.

And go away. Or contribute something to the conversation.

---

I should hope this particular post is not addressed at my person.

*aquaman dances around the thread*

quote:

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nem-x had this to say about Reading Rainbow:

*aquaman dances around the thread*

---

[large]AQUAMAN IS AN INSTITUTION OF SATAN!!! BURN IT!! BURN IT ALL!!![/large]

Bloodsage:

The issue does not, to me seem to be that yer saying that the military was the only option. WHich, btw, you didn't say. HOWEVER, you telling Maradon that for wanting to stay home when his life is going right that he is NOT a superhero, but a wannabe, is wrong. and you DID that. Not saying that he's a wannabe for not going into the milatary, but you pretty much called him a wannabe... Which is hardly fair. He's doing what HE wants to do with going into VR.

Deth: I very much agree with your comic book stuffs, however, you may want to be more clear on why yer mad at people, it seems to turn into "Yes I read your post, no you didn't", etc.

Hee.. just my $0.03 cents.

quote:

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Okay...let me ask this before getting this back on subject...

Who needs a reality check? Maradon intends to get into VR and all that. Soooo he's pursuing his dream. I intend to be a teacher, so I pursue my dream.

---

Maradon's initial list of interests was as compatible with the military as anything else, and that's what I know, so I suggested it. You, if you'll recall, had not entered the thread when I responded to Maradon.

Nor did my "reality check" comment have anything to do with career choice, or this part of the conversation. Nice try at obfuscation, though. Really.

No, really.

quote:

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If anyone bothered to read my initial post you'd see why comics are important to me, and you'd see what influence they have on my life. I wish I could be a superhero. I wish that lifestyle was real, that that world was real. There are no metahumans, there are no mutants of the comic variety. Comics are a metaphor to me, a metaphor drawn in glorious images and told with the writing ability of some of the finest scribes alive. They're metaphors for the human experience, and what sorts of things we aspire to, or reflect on the experiences some of us have.

---

As a matter of fact, I did read your post, and I was talking about exactly the same thing: comic as metaphor for life. Perhaps, if you'd get your head out of your ass and read the words I write rather than intuit your fucked-up version of what you think I mean, you'd see that.

Just a thought.

Or, if you're up to it, you can attempt actual conversation and point out where you think the inconsistencies are in what I said and what you believe. After all, in every comic, with the possible exceptions of Casper the Friendly Ghost and Archie, I suppose, the superhero makes sacrifices, has some dark side to his past or present that makes him or her more human, more compelling. The good ones, anyway.

What's heretical about that?

quote:

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The comment about "geekish angst" is an insult, spoken by someone who can't see past the 80's media blitz that comics are evil and bad. There's nothing angsty about my posts.

---

You truly are incapable of tracking a conversation, aren't you? Hate to break it to you, stud, but that comment about geekish angst had nothing to do with you, as the most cursory look at the context and the conversation will show.

If the shoe fits, though, feel free to marry the prince.

I was referring, of course, to the threads I specifically mentioned in the same paragraph. Context is good. Use it.

quote:

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I have an unattainable dream I can't live up to, but I try to live by a philosophy in part taken from the ideas set forth in the comic book media. I love my life, I revel in it. My life's only getting better, and it's going to lead me to help other people make their lives better.

---

If you'd been paying attention, you'd have noticed that's exactly what I was referring to when I defined real-life superheroes.

But if it's a fight you want, instead, I'm happy to oblige.

quote:

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I fail to see where joining the military or needing a reality check comes into play. I fail to see where I've given any indication of geekish angst. I fail to see where this attitude of put up or shut up fits into the conversation, put about by accusing someone of not being willing to do what they say they aspire to in this little gem of commentary:

---

You also fail to see words written plainly in front of you. You also fail to see an explanation given in direct response to each of your concerns.

You do see intent where there is none. You do see insults where there are none.

The reality check was simple: doing something--anything--to make the world a better place involves sacrifice, but anyone can do it, in a variety of ways. Maradon's response (notice how the later excuses got more concrete) was simply an argument that personal inconvenience was more important than making the world a better place.

Yes, I do find that rather lacking in qualities traditionally defined as "good" and "moral." You don't?

quote:

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Who are you to say? Who are you to judge another man, or the sacrifices they make? Who are you to say that someone isn't willing to make the extra effort when necessary?

---

Since when do I need to be someone special to have a reasoned opinion?

That's moot, however, because Maradon specifically said he wasn't willing to inconvenience himself. That's the point to which I was responding.

"That's inconvenient,"

is a much different objection than,

"I'm not doing that, but I'm acting on my philosophy in another way."

Don't you think?

But, since you've decided to make my background an issue, would you like to compare qualifications to judge sacrifices and inconvenience in the name of a greater good? I'm quite willing.

quote:

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Some of the greatest heroes are the ones who didn't get in the game, so to speak, until they were really tested. And some of the greatest heroes are the ones who do what they do every day without being part of the bigger epic storyline.

---

So?

What part of that invalidates anything I've said?

Or is it your contention that those who sit on their fat, lazy asses until happenstance thrusts them into an emergency are better than those who deliberately take on the challenge of making the world a better place?

Sure, some of them succeed, but many, many more fail. You just don't hear about the failures.

quote:

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Either way you simply don't understand the conversation, as your damned fool comments elaborate. And that offends me. Greatly.

---

Not quite, though your offense seems real enough to have clouded your brain beyond any hope of completing routine tasks such as reading.

Pay attention.

Read the fucking thread.

As you've outlined, I've said nothing that contradicts your stated philosophy that anyone can be a hero. Nothing.

I just took it that one small step out of fantasy and applied the principles to reality. If you disagree with my interpretation, feel free to respond with a reasoned argument to the contrary.

Nor did I once direct any "geekish angst" comments at you. Nor even suggest the military was the only, or even a superior avenue toward making a difference in the world. Perhaps if you didn't go quite so far out of your way to become offended, you'd have more luck keeping the conversation in view.

You disappoint me.

quote:

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Gikkwiny wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Ok. I jst read over the thread.

Bloodsage:

The issue does not, to me seem to be that yer saying that the military was the only option. WHich, btw, you didn't say. HOWEVER, you telling Maradon that for wanting to stay home when his life is going right that he is NOT a superhero, but a wannabe, is wrong. and you DID that. Not saying that he's a wannabe for not going into the milatary, but you pretty much called him a wannabe... Which is hardly fair. He's doing what HE wants to do with going into VR.

Deth: I very much agree with your comic book stuffs, however, you may want to be more clear on why yer mad at people, it seems to turn into "Yes I read your post, no you didn't", etc.

Hee.. just my $0.03 cents.

---

Of course I did.

It was the opening gambit in a discussion regarding the merits of wishing versus doing, which this thread seemed to be about, up until that point.

You'll notice that, recognizing the potential for hurt feelings and misunderstanding, and being the wonderful guy that I am, I made it a point to say that I didn't mean what I said as a flame.

You did notice that, right?

Notice, also, how I immediately clarified what I meant when, despite both good intentions and explicit disclaimers, my point was misinterpreted anyway.

Honestly, I fail to see what I could have done otherwise, beyond accepting undeserved flames. Which I am not willing to do.

quote:

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Read my last post.

And go away. Or contribute something to the conversation.

---

I did, so fuck off.

I know it's hard for you, but try to keep the various conversations straight.

quote:

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Star Collective wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Well damn, there goes my entire effort, shot to hell.

sighs and settles in for the flame wars until he can formulate another strategy to defuse it

---

I've been trying to diffuse these kinds of things for months now, but it never seems to work. I'm beginning to think I need a bottle of asprin when I come to this board.

I'm not really sure there's much I can say this time, I think I've come in a bit past the point of no return. The issue seems to have moved on from the initial problem, into an argument much harder to sort out, or even follow. I guess I might as well try, though, this never stopped me from butting in before.

I think the key problem here is that everyone is misinterpreting Bloodsage's "superhero-wannabe" post (I won't bother quoting it, it's been quoted several times already)

The coversation goes "Join the military", Mardon repies with is post about uprooting himself, and bloodsage returns with the inconveneice and discomfort being the difference between superheros and wannabes.

Many assume from this, readily enough, that Bloodsage means that if you're not willing to uproot yourself for the military, you're just a wannabe. It's an easy enough assumtion to make, Bloodsage replies to talk about the inconvenience of joining the military by saying that liking the idea as long as it's without inconvenience makes a wannabe.

However, I think his true point was closer to a general statement on working towards any ideal, that abandoning an idea simply because of inconvenience is wrong, that we need to work towards our ideals of helping people, that which we hope and dream of acheiveing, whether it's saving people in the military or civil service positions, or helping people through discovery and innovation, as well as an inumberable number of other ways. No one would dissagree with this kind of idea, it's pretty much the way many of us live our lives, for instance, handleing the inconveneince of education so that we can reach a higher, more noble goal.

Though, Bloodsage, to be fair to everyone, your first post or two on this point was not very clear, especially the superhero-wannabe post. That one could easily be taken as a flame (Maradon says "It changes my life too much", you seem to reply "Giving in to inconvenience makes you a wannabe") It doesn't mention the second half, that maradon can/is persuing a far different, but valid dream of helping people through advances in technology or medice. It seems to be a statement on inconvenince for the military, not on behavior towards inconvenience when helping people, being a hero, in general. The following post, by reinforcing the argument rather than redefining and clarifying, just solidified the problem in people's minds. After that, the whole thing turned into a flamewar, and I can't really follow very well where the argument went; suffice it to say after the insults started flying, reasonable discussion on what was meant seemed to end.

And as for the flame disclaimer, Bloodsage, you know better . You are the main proponent that humor disclaimers don't alter or justify the content, an insult in a post with a humor disclaimer is still an insult. The same goes here, something that seems a flame in a post with a flame disclaimer is still seen as a flame. Maradon saw himself being called a wannabe, and flame disclaimer or no, he took that as an attack. Whether or not it was meant as a flame (which as I went over, and as you explained, it wasn't), the disclaimer doesn't change the situation, other than to have someone quickly look for another interpretation (Which Maradon and other obvoiously didn't see) Giving the ambiguity, it's not suprising that so many jumped to maradon's defense and argued against the post.

I believe (or at least hope) that this conflict mainly stems from an unclear point, which people then latched onto and fought against viciously, without noticing that bloodsage was looking at the argument in a whole different way (hence the 2 entirely seperate sides, where both seem totally off-topic with respect to each other)

Everyone against Bloodsage, try looking at this in a different light, read the later posts (judiciously ignoring the insults), and see that he's not arguing that Maradon's ideas are just for wannabe heroes, or anything about the military, but instead he dealing with working towards being a hero in every sense of the word, working towards aiding our fellow man through self-sacrifice and the work we do.

And Bloodage, recognize that you were, at least initially, unclear and were easily seen as insulting to maradon and his ideas; there's a reason why so many people whose opinions you respect are arguing against you. Never be so confident in your own writing that you think that any misunderstanding must be on the part of others, no one ever sees the ambiguity in their own writing, everyone occasionaly implies something they don't mean to.

quote:

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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Bloodsage was all like:
Of course I did.

It was the opening gambit in a discussion regarding the merits of wishing versus doing, which this thread seemed to be about, up until that point.

You'll notice that, recognizing the potential for hurt feelings and misunderstanding, and being the wonderful guy that I am, I made it a point to say that I didn't mean what I said as a flame.

You did notice that, right?

Notice, also, how I immediately clarified what I meant when, despite both good intentions and explicit disclaimers, my point was misinterpreted anyway.

Honestly, I fail to see what I could have done otherwise, beyond accepting undeserved flames. Which I am not willing to do.

---

Ok, calling someone is a wannabe, if you want to admit it or not. Saying "this is not a flame" does not change the fact that it IS.

That's why I put the disclaimer in.

That's why I explained it calmly the first time.

That's why I've reiterated the point ad nauseum.

Right now, I'm essentially being accused of lying not only about my intent, but about my words, as everyone--including you--seems unable to see beyond that one ambiguous point.

While I understand your good intentions, I'm offended that you need to make such a show of telling me yet again something I've acknowledged (and corrected) from the first. I've given as far as I'm willing on that, and all related points.

Additionally, while I recognize your point (and mine, as you rightly showed) regarding disclaimers, there is a difference here: it was used to correct a potential misunderstanding, rather than disguise a blatant insult or obviously offensive topic.

There's a difference, as I see it.

quote:

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Gikkwiny had this to say about Captain Planet:
Ok, calling someone is a wannabe, if you want to admit it or not. Saying "this is not a flame" does not change the fact that it IS.

---

Is that English? I seem to recognize the words, but I haven't the faintest idea what you're trying to say.

If it's another tired attempt to tell me what I was thinking, then save it.

If not, please re-phrase it; you seem to be missing a few key words.

quote:

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I noticed a while back that in my VR thread you mentioned you wanted to be a super hero.
Strange thing is, I've had the same aspiration since I was a little kid. My friends and I would play super hero games, but I took the idea far more seriously than any of them. I'm still looking for a way to realize that dream, hence my interest in biotechnology, VR, martial arts, and standing tanks.

I dunno, I just found it ironic. Maybe it's a trait common to people with a strong sense of justice. Maybe we just think alike.

---

Bloodsage

quote:

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Join. The. Military.

---

Maradön?

quote:

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I kicked around the idea, but I settled on the conclusion that I really wasn't ready to uproot myself and move off to some far away military academy.

I'm only recently starting to make close friends, and my new girlfriend is wonderful.

---

Bloodsage

quote:

---

Ah, so you like the idea of being a hero--as long as it doesn't involve discomfort, inconvenience, or self-sacrifice? I think you've discovered the difference between "superhero" and "wannabe."

Not a flame, but more of a . . . reality check.

---

Ja'Deth

quote:

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Sage...are you attacking Maradon or are you attacking people who don't want to join the military or are you attacking superheroes?
For the record I almost got into the BLET (Basic Law Enforcement Training) program to be a police officer. Attacking people for not wanting to join the military is pretty low. There's a reality check for you.

---

Bloodsage

quote:

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I'm attacking no one. Really.

Touchy, perhaps?

Military, police, fire department, CDC . . . there are many ways to be a superhero in real life. Given Maradon's initial post, the military sounded the closest to what he described.

Just wanted to point out that wishing to be a superhero is one thing, while going out and doing it is quite another. Opportunities to be one in real life abound.

But it involves discomfort, inconvenience, and self-sacrifice. The aspects of being a superhero everyone ignores, though they're what make the hero a hero.

Not sure what you take me for, but when I say I'm not flaming, I'm not flaming. That's why I say it, you see: so there'll be no misunderstanding.

Neener.

---

Maradön?

quote:

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Really? I certainly felt attacked.

---

This is how it got started. It looks like a "backhand slap" to me. Saying that it isn't a flame or attack doesn't change anything. It was still insulting, and they have every reason to snap back.

What if I said:
Quite frankly, I you are showing the same attitude I've seen in alot of military types. It's one of the things I hate about dealing with them. Not that this is a flame or anything.

It would still be a flame to you, no matter what I said at the end.

quote:

---

There's a reality check for you.

---

[edit]Chalesm's post and everything below it was not there when I started typing. Please realize that.

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Palador ChibiDragon ]

quote:

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Bloodsage had this to say about (_|_):
I did realize the initial "wannabe" post could be misinterpreted, dude.

That's why I put the disclaimer in.

That's why I explained it calmly the first time.

That's why I've reiterated the point ad nauseum.

Right now, I'm essentially being accused of lying not only about my intent, but about my words, as everyone--including you--seems unable to see beyond that one ambiguous point.

While I understand your good intentions, I'm offended that you need to make such a show of telling me yet again something I've acknowledged (and corrected) from the first. I've given as far as I'm willing on that, and all related points.

Additionally, while I recognize your point (and mine, as you rightly showed) regarding disclaimers, there is a difference here: it was used to correct a potential misunderstanding, rather than disguise a blatant insult or obviously offensive topic.

There's a difference, as I see it.

---

I started writing that before the latest, green post, was posted (I was doing homework while writing it, so it took a while) so I hadn't yet seen one of your clearest explinations on this all ,connecting many of the other ideas shown, especially on your ideas of persuing ideas, not just physical self-sacrifice. I need to learn to check the threads after I start writing.

Most of that was just trying to restate for those who already have a set view of the situation in their mind, give an alternate view. However, the post was largely obsolete before it was posted because I hadn't checked the thread, such as your explination on what exactly you meant with the response to Maradon.

And yes, I saw and moved past the ambiguous point in my mind, however, the discussion, when I was reading, never seemed to get past that point, which left me a bit stuck as to where to go. For much of the thread, you were arguing one issue, the importance of self-sacrifice for a goal, while the other side was arguing the importance of non-military sacrifices as well as military; the two arguments seemed to have nothing to do with eachother, which made for a very confusing thread. I think that things have rejoined a bit now, so we may have already moved beyond that point. Sorry for the duplications.

As for the disclamers, it may just be my optimism talking, but I often believe that many of the problem posts from people are little more than misunderstandings in most cases, a side remark that was never intended to wound, much like this was (though to a greater degree in the other cases). Intent is always a difficult line to draw; for instance, Maradon saw only the attack, he saw no ambiguity, even after the first clarification, the "him as a wannabe" continued to stand uncallenged in his mind. Does that make him wrong for then following up?

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Chalesm ]

quote:

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This is how it got started. It looks like a "backhand slap" to me. Saying that it isn't a flame or attack doesn't change anything. It was still insulting, and they have every reason to snap back.

What if I said:
Quite frankly, I you are showing the same attitude I've seen in alot of military types. It's one of the things I hate about dealing with them. Not that this is a flame or anything.

---

Would you still claim the right to go ballistic after the point was clarified yet again?

Here's an idea, since this is the new slant for those trying to prove me malicious or stupid, point to where I refused to acknowledge that the post in question could be taken as an insult.

I agree--and have from the first--that that post could be interpreted as insulting. That's why I put the disclaimer in, in perfectly good faith.

That's why I did not get upset, but rather explained the point further when someone did take offense.

What, exactly, is your point, then?

The question you should ask is not what I would say to that, but rather what I would say if you clarified that you were discussing a more general range of behaviors rather than indicting an individual when I asked, "WTFO?"

In which case I would show you the error of your ways, rather than flame you.

This isn't rocket science, and it's getting annoying that everyone assumes I have some secret agenda. Point to it. Show anywhere I've had one in the past.

Or, better yet, come back to planet Earth and listen to what I'm saying, for a change.

quote:

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Chalesm had this to say about pies:
I started writing that before the latest, green post, was posted (I was doing homework while writing it, so it took a while) so I hadn't yet seen one of your clearest explinations on this all ,connecting many of the other ideas shown, especially on your ideas of persuing ideas, not just physical self-sacrifice. I need to learn to check the threads after I start writing.

Most of that was just trying to restate for those who already have a set view of the situation in their mind, give an alternate view. However, the post was largely obsolete before it was posted because I hadn't checked the thread, such as the point on what exactly you meant with the response to Maradon.

And yes, I saw and moved past the ambiguous point in my mind, however, the discussion never seemed to at that point, which left me in a bit stuck as to where to go. For much of the thread, you were arguing one issue, the importance of self-sacrifice for a goal, while the other side was arguing the importance of non-military sacrifices as well as military; the two arguments seemed to have nothing to do with eachother, which made for a very confusing thread. I think that things have rejoined a bit now, so we may have already moved beyond that point. Sorry for the duplication.

As for the disclamers, it may just be my optimism talking, but I often believe that many of the problem posts from people are little more than misunderstandings in most cases, a side remark that was never intended to wound, much like this was (though to a greater degree in the other cases). Intent is always a difficult line to draw; for instance, Maradon saw only the attack, he saw no ambiguity, even after clarification, the "him as a wannabe" continued to stand uncallenged in his mind. Does that make him wrong for then following up?

---

Yeah, the conversation split into several threads, and it seems to have caused some confusion.

There were the accusations (I've still no idea where this came from) that I'd somehow said anyone who didn't join the military wasn't shit. Had to deal with that.

There was the conversation regarding wishing versus doing that I was trying to clear up.

It got even messier when other people started trying to jumpt into each others' conversations.

And the follow-up was fine; you'll not that I clarified the point civilly, while making it clear that I wasn't kidding about not meaning to flame.

Then the actual flames start, based on something I not only didn't say, but never so much as hinted.

Honestly, at that point, other than apologizing for something I didn't do, what more could I have done?

Hell, I even tried to engage off-line, and was stabbed most firmly in the back.

And yet, somehow, I have to be the bad guy.

Fuck that.

quote:

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Gikkwiny impressed everyone with:
Oops. Sorry, my brain was going faster then my hands again. Basically: Calling someone a wannabe is a flame, wether you say it is, or not. Saying it's not changes nothing fome that fact that it IS a flame.

---

It was also true, in context of the philosophical point I was making, so I made every effort to take the sting out and explain the larger issues rather than the personal ones.

A simple, "I'm not doing that, but I have other plans that enact my philosophy," would have answered the point quite nicely, don't you think?

That's actually what I was expecting, though it didn't materialize until much later.

quote:

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We were all impressed when Bloodsage wrote:
Would you still claim the right to go ballistic after the point was clarified yet again?

---

If someone stepped on your toes, then said "Oh, I didn't intend to hurt you, so it's OK.", most people would be quite pissed. If you unintentionally hurt someone, be it physically or emotionally, there's something a civil person should do.

All you've done is defend yourself. That's like the toe-stepper saying "I didn't intend to hurt you, so don't blame me for the pain". I have yet to see "I'm sorry" anywhere in this thread.

quote:

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Check out the big brain on Palador ChibiDragon!
YES!

If someone stepped on your toes, then said "Oh, I didn't intend to hurt you, so it's OK.", most people would be quite pissed. If you unintentionally hurt someone, be it physically or emotionally, there's something a civil person should do.

All you've done is defend yourself. That's like the toe-stepper saying "I didn't intend to hurt you, so don't blame me for the pain". I have yet to see "I'm sorry" anywhere in this thread.

---

Get thee to a finishing school; your grasp of manners is sorely lacking.

{edited to be less insulting, in case the ignorance is real}

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Bloodsage ]

quote:

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Bloodsage stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:

Get thee to a finishing school; your grasp of manners is sorely lacking.

{edited to be less insulting, in case the ignorance is real}

---

Not much less insulting, is it? Now it hints (quite strongly) that I might be a social moron. Gee, thanks.

In fact, I want to thank you for all the flames and insults you gave me. I realize that you have edited many of them out of your post, but I read it before then. Given that I had not done more than suggest that you were being uncivil, I found your blatantly insulting second post to be truely humorous. The edit of said post, to suggest that I am the one lacking in manners, even more so.

I have told you what I believe to be occuring in this thread. That done, my goals here have been met. How you will deal with this information is not for me to decide. On this topic, I am finished.

quote:

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Ruvyen Warblade had this to say about pies:
You've really gotta wonder why Supey always wears his underwear on the outside of his pants. Maybe because of his superheroishness, there are so many people in his pants, there's no room for underwear.

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Nah, it was part of the whole Clark Kent/Superman identity switch. Superman can't be Clark Kent because Superman doesn't wear glasses. Clark Kent can't be Superman because Clark isn't stupid enough to wear his underwear over his pants.

Those two tricks, along with ducking into phone booths with see-through walls to change, allowed him to fool his nearest and dearest all the time.

If he hadn't done that, he would have had to give Lois a heat-vision lobotomy too keep her from figuring it out.

Maradon did state he had considered joining the military, but didnt want to give up the "luxuries" that he currently enjoyed. It was not until MUCH later that he specified that he felt he was physically unable to fulfill the requirements that military service might require.

'Sage also offered alternatives (fire-fighters, police, CDC, as well as indicating that it was by no means and exhaustive list) that would fit the same criteria that Maradon appeared to be wanting to fill with a superhero lifestyle. One could hardly call any of those MILITARISTIC. So the arguements of "You're always pushing the military" loose a little impact. Sure it might have been his first listed profession, but I dare say all of us have our preferred profession that helps the community (Teaching perhaps Ja`Deth?).

BloodSage reponded to Maradon's initial response of:

quote:

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I kicked around the idea, but I settled on the conclusion that I really wasn't ready to uproot myself and move off to some far away military academy.
I'm only recently starting to make close friends, and my new girlfriend is wonderful.

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quote:

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Just wanted to point out that wishing to be a superhero is one thing, while going out and doing it is quite another. Opportunities to be one in real life abound.
But it involves discomfort, inconvenience, and self-sacrifice. The aspects of being a superhero everyone ignores, though they're what make the hero a hero.

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Does anyone want to point out to me exactly where Superman, or Spiderman, or Batman, or any other past or present superhero is NOT inconvenienced, experiences discomfort, or makes some kind of self-secrifice?

If people are going to read insinuations to things said by BloodSage, then perhaps they should apply those same criteria to what is said by Maradon et al.

Let's re-examine what Maradon said.

quote:

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I kicked around the idea, but I settled on the conclusion that I really wasn't ready to uproot myself and move off to some far away military academy.

I'm only recently starting to make close friends, and my new girlfriend is wonderful.

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Insinuating (by the same rules applied to Bloodsage):
"I thought about joining the military, but moving (away from home) would mean I'd lose my friends and never see my girlfriend again."

Does this demonstrate the "noble self-sacrifice" that is the PRIME attribute of any superhero, above and beyond whatever 'power' they may have?

Does Superman ever say "Screw this, I'm not flying outside of Metropolis city limits to rescue anyone because it's just too far away..."

Does Spiderman ever say "Eh, Jamieson is on my butt about getting photos for the latest scoop and I'm already late, so I won't take time out to catch those bank robbers so I dont get my ass chewed out.."

Noble Self-sacrifice.

Initially Maradon displayed none of this. It was not until later that he clarified that he was undertaking a different route to reach his dream. However, no-one has called him about taking so long to clarify his position.

Instead it has been easier to attack BloodSage as the "bad guy" because he dared point out the old cliche:

No pain, no gain.

In conclusion, BloodSage has done nothing to deserve the verbal bashing he has received for his comments. However, Maradon et al have demonstrated considerable hypocrisy in refusing to read and understand Bloodsage's comments, while stating that he ('sage) is not reading and understanding theirs.

I have seen MULTIPLE examples of Bloodsage responding to individual points with factual evidence from the thread to date.

I have yet to see anyone flaming him provide the factual evidence to support their accusations against him.

Then run away.

But to suggest it's acceptable to throw a fit if someone accidentally steps on your toes does call into question your grasp of polite interaction.

In polite company, one assumes transgressions are unintentional, and views explanations charitably.

Getting pissed at what is obviously an unintentional action is boorish, at best, and no longer deserving of the polite response that may have been forthcoming.

Perhaps, when you know what you're talking about, you'll be worth listening to?

But thanks, anyway, for yet another lame attempt to find something, anything for which to castigate me and justify the rude, baseless flames to which I've been subjected. And which I'm quite comfortable returning in spades.

{edit: added address}

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Bloodsage ]

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Black Mage ]

quote:

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We were all impressed when Lyinar wrote:
Are you going to call everyone who ever even thinks of dreaming of something a "wannabe" just because they don't have the ability to make it come to pass right now?

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Again, you are reading something that is not there.

Stop dreaming up stupid stuff in your head.

You are reading something that is not there...