quote:
Niklas had this to say about dark elf butts:
I seriously don't see the point of you people arguing right now
Entertainment.
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Niklas impressed everyone with:
It is difficult to change a pacifist's mind when they believe in what they are doing. It is pretty much a moot point in England but I seriously don't see the point of you people arguing right now
There's quite a difference between a personal decision, based upon a belief such as pacifism, and attempting not only to rationalize it, but thrust it upon others as if it made sense.
The former is fine; the latter is not.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Check out the big brain on Bloodsage!
True, as far as it goes, but it's something else altogether when people draw conclusions which directly contradict available evidence, basing their conclusions, instead, upon baseless fears and emotional claptrap masquerading as concern for others.That's irrational.
Greetings,
This can go both ways Bloodsage, that statment alone could apply to either side of the argument. For the record no one provided "proof" even when it was requested so that is a rather moot point.
I can only base my opinions on personal experience and belief. My fears are not baseless, at least not anymore than the ones of a person who feels a need to carry a loaded firearm on their person at all times for "protection".
It really is simple, bad shit happens to good people, but the vast majority of people will never have to encounter anything that would require the drawing and firing of a gun at another human being. That doesn't mean a person should be underprepared, as I have been accused of, or to overreact by carrying dangerous weapons in public.
In rereading what I've written so far, I made a mistake of telling everyone how I really feel. It's made me sound like a left wing socialist who dreams of a utopian community where no one will cause harm to anyone, and that sounds naive to say the least. I am an idealest Azizza nailed me there, I don't believe a response with lethal force is the best way to handle crisis situations. Every time a person responds to a situation with lethal force they are taking personal responsability for not only their life and the lives of those around them for good or bad, that is what scares me. Would you trust a man with a gun that you do not know to guard and protect your childern? I wouldn't either, we are asked to place that trust in our local police and in our military, I feel those are the best places for that trust.
I will not live in fear, nor will I allow myself to become what I fear. You won't catch me with a concealed weapon in public, I won't vote for politicians who support such laws, and I will publicly speak out on the dangers of such laws, it's my right to do so. [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Tyewa Dawnsister ]
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Would you trust a man with a gun that you do not know to guard and protect your childern?
Yes. Because that man is there to help, he's had training, he's gone through more government regulations than a cop. It's not like I know the police any better than I know him.
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I wouldn't either, we are asked to place that trust in our local police and in our military, I feel those are the best places for that trust.
The police and military aren't always there, spanky. Open your eyes.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
Would you trust a man with a gun that you do not know to guard and protect your childern? I wouldn't either, we are asked to place that trust in our local police and in our military, I feel those are the best places for that trust.
Aren't those men with guns that we don't know who protect our children?
Neener. 
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Tyewa Dawnsister thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
It really is simple, bad shit happens to good people
Bad shit happens to bad people also =)
Azziza also mentioned a rather good source, as well as several studies.
You, on the other hand, have your "feelings," based upon your "personal experience." What part of your experience was it again that demonstrates any actual danger to bystanders created by CCW laws? I seem to have missed that part.
Whereas Azziza, his objective sources notwithstanding, has personal experience directly contradicting your "feelings" that firearms have no deterrent value and are dangerous to bystanders and the wielder out of all proportion to their value in self-defense.
Feel free to argue your irrationality, and try to foist it upon the rest of us, but don't ever imply your "feelings" are based upon evidence unless you're willing to produce it, and to argue from fact and logic rather than emotion and belief.
That's the difference, you see, between a belief and an opinion. Opinions must be supportable. Beliefs are a matter of faith.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
I'm far from irrational Bloodsage, you know that as well as I do. You just don't agree with me on this issue so you go into your typical discrediting crap to justify the difference in opinion. You use it in every argument you pop into, it's getting tiresome.
Now that that is taken care of, back to the issue at hand here. There are several schools of thought on how to handle violence and crime. One school demands that violent crime be met and detered through further violence. Another school demands that violent crime be prevented through awarness, education, and non lethal force. Both are valid, but they are at their core incompatiable and will always spark arguments like this thread when compared.
To tell the truth I haven't had much fun with this thread. Normally I enjoy debating social issues, but this one just feels dirty on some levels. I want you to be able to protect yourself and your family. I want you to feel safe and secure where ever you go. I want you to be happy and have fun with your life. I don't want to tell you not to carry a firearm in public, I want to convince you that you do not need to carry that firearm in public. Not only for your own safety but for the saftey of others, as esclating violence in a crisis situation is the worst possible thing you can do.
All I can say to close is that may God have mercy on your soul if you ever have to draw and discharge the firearm. That is the same prayer Police are told when first issued their sidearms. I think it fits in this conversation.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Captain Planet:
All I can say to close is that may God have mercy on your soul if you ever have to draw and discharge the firearm. That is the same prayer Police are told when first issued their sidearms. I think it fits in this conversation.
Then all I have to say: May God have mercy on your soul when a criminal sees you cave in like a house of cards at the threat of violence.
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Comrade_Snoota had this to say about Punky Brewster:
[QB]Aren't those men with guns that we don't know who protect our children?QB]
If you don't know your local Police officers, that is your own fault. I've always made a point to get to know my local Police Force. It makes life much easier if you know them and they know you, not to mention they tend to like citizens who would rather know them on a personal level rather than fear them as an opressing force.
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D had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Then all I have to say: May God have mercy on your soul when a criminal sees you cave in like a house of cards at the threat of violence.
Greetings,
Perhaps I have missed something here? Have I led on that I would cave in at threat of violence? Men, your only solution is always to respond to violence with violence, it's sickening. The threat of violence does not always warrent a violent response, it should be a last resort.
I am comfortable with my safety from "some criminals" who are just looking for a middle aged woman to rape and murder. I, however, am not comfortable with people like you carrying loaded weapons in public places.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Cuba:
Perhaps I have missed something here? Have I led on that I would cave in at threat of violence?
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From page 2:
If the mugger just wanted your wallet, let him have it and get away. The 40$ you carry on you is not worth your life, or his life for that matter.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Cuba:
Greetings,Perhaps I have missed something here? Have I led on that I would cave in at threat of violence? Men, your only solution is always to respond to violence with violence, it's sickening. The threat of violence does not always warrent a violent response, it should be a last resort.
I am comfortable with my safety from "some criminals" who are just looking for a middle aged woman to rape and murder. I, however, am not comfortable with people like you carrying loaded weapons in public places.
I'm sorry, I think I've just slipped into an alternate reality.
You're comfortable with being raped, but not with the citizen who carries a gun for a LAWFUL purpose?
Excuse me. I need to go look up that word with the brain, and the death, and the stupid thing that usually happens when you hit your head against something.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
If you don't know your local Police officers, that is your own fault. I've always made a point to get to know my local Police Force. It makes life much easier if you know them and they know you, not to mention they tend to like citizens who would rather know them on a personal level rather than fear them as an opressing force.
LOL.. I live in a city of 1.5 million citizens and almost 3,000 police officers. I'm sorry I don't know my 'local police'.
And some people do get cocky with them, over confediance. When that happens, something bad is sure to happen.
My brother was like that. He would get ahold of my dad's riffles, and hold them, point blank at me. Lucky for me at times, he didn't find the ammo that went into the bloody things. (nothing short of getting rid of them would keep my brother from getting ahold of the riffles. No matter were my dad hid them, he'd find them. If they were locked away, he'd find the key.. or break the lock...)
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1. Small caliber weapons are all but useless for self-defense. No stopping power; you're more likely to piss the bad guy off than to harm him seriously. It requires much more expertise to use a .22 in self defense than a 9mm or .45.
Ummm I think ANY gun is gonna scare someone off. I dont know about criminals but the idea of being shot with a .22 doesnt exactly fill me with girlish glee.
Palou Sabaco quote:
Tyewa Dawnsister impressed everyone with:
Buy some single sided deadbolts, seal your downstairs windows, and put a shatterproof pane on your sliding door. No one is getting into your house without making enough noise to wake the dead not to mention your neighbors. Unless you've really pissed someone off you aren't in much of a threat to have your wife/daughter raped in the middle of the night. Thus no need for loaded weapons in the house.
Great. So now the NEIGHBORS know that someone's broken in to my house, and so do I. This still gives me no method of protecting myself, unless I'm hoping that the criminal is a fraidy cat and that loud noises startle him.
Do you really trust your police force to get to your house within 3 minutes?
Perhaps you cannot read D.
The threat of violence does not always warrent a violent response, it should be a last resort.
My life nor that petty thief's life is worth the 40$ in my purse. Let it go, report the crime, let the Police deal with it from there. Drawing a firearm, which is drawn with the intent to kill as there is no other reason for pointing a weapon at another person, escaltes the violence and forces the criminal's hand. You would do it though, you would draw the weapon as an intimidation factor and hope the criminal cowered or ran off. Or worse yet you would shoot him, take his life over the 40$ in your wallet, both are reckless use of a firearm. It could be resolved without the use of violent or with non lethal means, you don't need to carry that gun.
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Men, your only solution is always to respond to violence with violence, it's sickening.
So what do you think we should of done instead of launching a semi-war against Afghanistan and the Al-Qhuaeadasd whatever?
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about John Romero:
Perhaps you cannot read D.The threat of violence does not always warrent a violent response, it should be a last resort.
I can read fine. And you put way too much of your own "safety" into the hands of the *government.
No, I will not hesitate to shoot a person trying to mug me. Fuck them. They have no respect for my life, my safety, I have no respect for theirs.
*No offense Sage, please don't hurt me. [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: D ]
violence begets violence.
Palou Sabaco quote:
Arttemis the Twink had this to say about John Romero:
I'm sorry, I think I've just slipped into an alternate reality.You're comfortable with being raped, but not with the citizen who carries a gun for a LAWFUL purpose?
Arttemis, that actually forced a chuckle. You are almost as good as Bloodsage at twisting words. I'm comfortable in my ability to protect myself from a rapest or other violent criminal without the use of lethal violence.
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D had this to say about Tron:
Fuck them. They have no respect for my life, my safety, I have no respect for theirs.
And that my friend is why you should not be allowed to carry a loaded firearm in public.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Captain Planet:
I'm comfortable in my ability to protect myself from a rapest or other violent criminal without the use of lethal violence.
Then you need to specify that. With you, we never know. From the sound of it you'd just give in to the rapist rather than fight.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about pies:
And that my friend is why you should not be allowed to carry a loaded firearm in public.
Because I have no respect for the life of a criminal who is out to cause me some sort of harm, whether it be bodily or mentally?
Christ. You're worse than the person trying to mug me.
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D had this to say about dark elf butts:
Then you need to specify that. With you, we never know. From the sound of it you'd just give in to the rapist rather than fight.
I'm sorry I confused you, I'll use simpler statments next time.
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Tyewa Dawnsister wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Drawing a firearm, which is drawn with the intent to kill as there is no other reason for pointing a weapon at another person
Yes there is. My father was a cop for almost ten years. And, as such, I knew almost every police officer in the town I grew up in. Most criminals, and almost all Cops, use guns to scare people. Very few of them actually use them with the intent to kill someone. It's pure psychology. Someone sees a gun and immediately thinks, 'Shit! I better do what he says!'
I was really indifferent to everything you said until your last few posts were dealing with passing off your beliefs and opinions as concrete facts.
You apparently have a problem with some states having laws that allow you to obtain a license to carry a concealed weapon, as well. Now, the people who obtain these licenses legally are more often than not -better- trained than police officers.
A license to carry a concealed weapon used to be the second hardest license to obtain in the United States. Previously the very hardest one was the license to carry a concealed weapon on an airplane, but while that is still there I highly doubt many will be issued for a good while to come, for obvious reasons.
What is the harm, really, in people who are BETTER TRAINED(for the most part; not only do you have to take the same firearm course the police officers take, many people who obtain these licenes are ex-military and the like who are far better trained) than the police officers you put so much faith in. It's not as if suddenly making this illegal will stop the criminals from doing it.
You also speak as someone who did not grow up in a bad area and had to deal with people with guns on an everyday basis. (And if I'm incorrect in that assessment please spare me the sob stories, nobody cares. thx) Having bullets flying over your head a few times sort of gives you a new light on laws concerning your right to defend yourself.
Neener. [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Comrade_Snoota ]
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Tyewa Dawnsister wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
I'm sorry I confused you, I'll use simpler statments next time.
Insult my intelligence because I can't read your fucking mind, that's a nice one. YOU GO GIRL!
The only thing you've done here is to advocate a particular belief system, unbolstered by the least shred of fact or logical reason. While ignoring, of course, any inconvenient facts brought up by others.
Additionally, your latest jab descends yet further into the irrational realm, as it seeks to counter my argument by spurious reference to alleged behavior elsewhere. That's what's known as ad hominem reasoning, and it's a logical fallacy.
If you can't address my points on their merits, then you have, de facto, conceded the argument.
Thanks for playing.
{And, in case you're thinking about charging me with the same thing vis a vis my use of the term "irrational" to characterize your argument, I suggest you take a moment to look up the term; I used it quite advisedly, and in it's logical meaning rather than the pejorative sense.}
So neener.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage impressed everyone with:
That's what's known as ad hominem reasoning, and it's a logical fallacy.
%*@)(*)$!*$)!%*!^!*~~!
I still have nightmares of that word from Gameplay. I wake up in a cold sweat screaming, 'ad hominem!'
You managed to stick that word into every. single. post. you made there.
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Tyewa Dawnsister had this to say about Captain Planet:
Greetings,
You NEVER EVER esclate violence in a confrontation, you are just asking to get yourself or someone else killed. If the mugger just wanted your wallet, let him have it and get away. The 40$ you carry on you is not worth your life, or his life for that matter.
Ok listen here you stuck up little snob. That man was advanciung on me with a knife.. What would you have done?
Yes I would have shot him if he had come one more step closer. So why don't you go back to your little fantasy world you live in.
:P
<knows way too many quotes!>
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Check out the big brain on Azizza!
Ok listen here you stuck up little snob. That man was advanciung on me with a knife.. What would you have done?
Used my pepper spray, blown my whistle, and run like hell. What do you think I would have done? Do you really think I would have tried to reason with him and said something like this, "Heh man with a knife do you really wanna kill me for the 40$ in my purse? I know you really don't want to, here is all the money I have, you can go along your way now." Do you think I would have tried to use my limited self defense knowledge to try and disarm and disable the man? Get real, I would have done the smartest thing I could, draw attention to the situation and gotten the hell away. I'm no hero, and neither is anyone else who cannot feel secure unless they are carrying a loaded firearm.
You haven't described the situation in which this happened, so tell me, could this have been resolved in any way without the use of that firearm, either as a weapon used to kill or simply an impowerment device for intimidation. Could a non lethal method have been used to defend yourself from your attacker?
Sorry I blew up earlier. I don't like people telling me I should be dead instead of taking the precautions to defend myself.
