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Falaanla Marr had this to say about Captain Planet:
stuff
I love you Fal 
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Koska Kintaro had this to say about Optimus Prime:
I'd care a whole lot more about moral implications if stealing music somehow negatively impacted artists.However, the only ones who stand to lose money are the RIAA and big record lables, and even they aren't losing money at all, they're still making it in big fat bundles.
Just quoting myself because Azizza seems to have missed it. Or ignored it deliberatly.
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Koska Kintaro had this to say about John Romero:
Just quoting myself because Azizza seems to have missed it. Or ignored it deliberatly.
The latter sounds correct.
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Koska Kintaro thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Just quoting myself because Azizza seems to have missed it. Or ignored it deliberatly.
Sorry missed it the first time around Maradon. Wasn't expecting the Children of the Flame.
I see your point but dissagree to an extent. I think artist do lose money however.
2) I use Morpheus to get songs that are no longer available or never were available to purchase, such as special live or acoustic versions of some of my favorite songs.
3) I use Morpheus to get songs from albums where there is only 1 good song on the whole album, but I would have had to have been ripped off by the artist and record company and buy a WHOLE CD of music just for the one good song.
4) I'd LOVE to see eBook versions of books I buy, and I'd buy the book just to get an eBook version to take with me on my Palm.
5) Softbound Books cost about $3-5 and are worth the investment, especially if they are good and I'll read them more than once or share them with my children.
6) CDs cost about the same as a DVD, $10-15, and I believe the value in the DVD is FAR superior, CDs are not a good value for the money. If CDs were $5-7 I'd wager they'd sell better.
7) And as I recall, sales of CDs have not dropped since the start of Napster but only increased.
No matter what Microsoft as a whole has done, you've got to admire the guy. He's filthy rich, yet still hasn't gotten his teeth fixed.
As for touching something Microsoft owns, I just touched my computer.
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I want to start with a story about rock bands and record companies, and do some recording-contract math:This story is about a bidding-war band that gets a huge deal with a 20 percent royalty rate and a million-dollar advance. (No bidding-war band ever got a 20 percent royalty, but whatever.) This is my "funny" math based on some reality and I just want to qualify it by saying I'm positive it's better math than what Edgar Bronfman Jr. [the president and CEO of Seagram, which owns Polygram] would provide.
What happens to that million dollars?
They spend half a million to record their album. That leaves the band with $500,000. They pay $100,000 to their manager for 20 percent commission. They pay $25,000 each to their lawyer and business manager.
That leaves $350,000 for the four band members to split. After $170,000 in taxes, there's $180,000 left. That comes out to $45,000 per person.
That's $45,000 to live on for a year until the record gets released.
The record is a big hit and sells a million copies. (How a bidding-war band sells a million copies of its debut record is another rant entirely, but it's based on any basic civics-class knowledge that any of us have about cartels. Put simply, the antitrust laws in this country are basically a joke, protecting us just enough to not have to re-name our park service the Phillip Morris National Park Service.)
So, this band releases two singles and makes two videos. The two videos cost a million dollars to make and 50 percent of the video production costs are recouped out of the band's royalties.
The band gets $200,000 in tour support, which is 100 percent recoupable.
The record company spends $300,000 on independent radio promotion. You have to pay independent promotion to get your song on the radio; independent promotion is a system where the record companies use middlemen so they can pretend not to know that radio stations -- the unified broadcast system -- are getting paid to play their records.
All of those independent promotion costs are charged to the band.
Since the original million-dollar advance is also recoupable, the band owes $2 million to the record company.
If all of the million records are sold at full price with no discounts or record clubs, the band earns $2 million in royalties, since their 20 percent royalty works out to $2 a record.
Two million dollars in royalties minus $2 million in recoupable expenses equals ... zero!
How much does the record company make?
They grossed $11 million.
It costs $500,000 to manufacture the CDs and they advanced the band $1 million. Plus there were $1 million in video costs, $300,000 in radio promotion and $200,000 in tour support.
The company also paid $750,000 in music publishing royalties.
They spent $2.2 million on marketing. That's mostly retail advertising, but marketing also pays for those huge posters of Marilyn Manson in Times Square and the street scouts who drive around in vans handing out black Korn T-shirts and backwards baseball caps. Not to mention trips to Scores and cash for tips for all and sundry.
Add it up and the record company has spent about $4.4 million.
So their profit is $6.6 million; the band may as well be working at a 7-Eleven.
Of course, they had fun. Hearing yourself on the radio, selling records, getting new fans and being on TV is great, but now the band doesn't have enough money to pay the rent and nobody has any credit.
Worst of all, after all this, the band owns none of its work ... they can pay the mortgage forever but they'll never own the house. Like I said: Sharecropping. Our media says, "Boo hoo, poor pop stars, they had a nice ride. Fuck them for speaking up"; but I say this dialogue is imperative. And cynical media people, who are more fascinated with celebrity than most celebrities, need to reacquaint themselves with their value systems.
When you look at the legal line on a CD, it says copyright 1976 Atlantic Records or copyright 1996 RCA Records. When you look at a book, though, it'll say something like copyright 1999 Susan Faludi, or David Foster Wallace. Authors own their books and license them to publishers. When the contract runs out, writers gets their books back. But record companies own our copyrights forever.
The system's set up so almost nobody gets paid.
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I also think Metallica is being given too much grief. It's anti-artist, for one thing. An artist speaks up and the artist gets squashed: Sharecropping. Don't get above your station, kid. It's not piracy when kids swap music over the Internet using Napster or Gnutella or Freenet or iMesh or beaming their CDs into a My.MP3.com or MyPlay.com music locker. It's piracy when those guys that run those companies make side deals with the cartel lawyers and label heads so that they can be "the labels' friend," and not the artists'.Recording artists have essentially been giving their music away for free under the old system, so new technology that exposes our music to a larger audience can only be a good thing.
[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Kegwen Tabibito ]
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Kanid wrote this stupid crap:
6) CDs cost about the same as a DVD, $10-15, and I believe the value in the DVD is FAR superior, CDs are not a good value for the money. If CDs were $5-7 I'd wager they'd sell better.
Two things. One: DVD's are more around $19.99, and hell yes CDs would sell better at $5-7.
But at 5-7, the suit wearing executives would be getting reamed by prices, not consumers.
Edit: And I realize there is no two. Just.. imagine it's there, right below this, if you will. You just can't see it. [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Demitri ]
[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Avylen ]
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Demitri had this to say about the price of tea in China:
DVD's are more around $19.99
Where do you buy your DVDs? I get mine from Circuit City and http://www.excaliburfilms.com and haven't paid more than $15 for one unless it was a 2 disc set, or more.
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Kanid had this to say about Robocop:
[QB]YATTA!!QB]
If you can get CDs for ten dollars, hell, 15 dollars where you live, I want to live there. Do you know how much the record stores charge per cd up here? Between 18 and 23 dollars. I remember when I could take my monthly allowance and get 3 cd's off of it. Now I don't bother, because I could get nigh four shirts from hot topic at the same price as one CD.
I am seriously pondering how much money off of each wasted 23 dollars go to the artists. Maybe if I mail them the 23 dollars directly instead of giving it to the distributors, they may be able to have steak in their own appartment once in a while.
Also, Nickleback does, indeed, r0xx0r. I got the chance to listen to them live. It owned.
Coincidence, or clever artistic symbolism? You make the call.
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Avylen wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
Kanid most you points are valid (1,2,4,5,6) however the other two are wrong, in 3 if you think they are ripping you off don't buy the CD, it is not your job to say "your being cheap" if a street vender wants to sell you 15 oranges for 100$ you can't take one and walk off saying "Cheapskate". As for 7 yes they are increasing, but they have alwys been increasing, it's sorta like saying the stock market is going up, it is always going up and at faster rates constatnly.
If I have to buy a CD of crap for 1 good song instead of being able to buy 1 good song, yes, that is ripping me off. It's like getting a brand new computer, with used parts under the hood.
And why do people against file swapping compare it to substantial objects? When I take an orange, I am preventing the owner of the orange from making a profit on that orange. If I copy a song, I am not preventing the record company from making a profit on that song. There is a BIG difference.
And should I copy 50 songs and buy 5 albums based on the good songs, that's 5 albums I would not have bought in the first place since I don't buy albums anymore unless half the songs are worth listening to, and I can't find that out without copying the songs from Morpheus.
Just ordered Jars of Clay's first album today because of Morpheus.
For $50, I have been able to use Streamload to download would could possilby be $1000 in anime. The producers lost some money here, right? Wrong. I would have never bought this stuff. It's just that I saw an opportunity -- a portal -- to get all this stuff, so I did. I would have never paid money for all of it, but it's one excellent deal for $50. What I'm trying to say, as said earlier in the topic, is that I wouldn't have bought this stuff anyway. It's damn near free, so I take it, but I wouldn't have purchased it if this opportunity was not here. I was not a possible sale in the scheme of things. I'm merely taking an opportunity that's well worth it. The music thing is the same way, I would never buy those CDs anyway, but for free, you better believe I'll take it.
I may get accused of living as a pig or whatever. You know what? I love being a pig.
Yes, that's right, hot live sex!quote:
Avylen had this to say about Pirotess:
Maradon, justifying your actions by saying it does hurt the artist is also in my opinion invalid, you are still hurting someone when you do that, even if they are rich.
I'm not justifying anything. I know it's morally wrong to steal from the rich, even if they're not really losing anything in theory or in practice. I'm just explaining why I don't give a rat's ass.
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WaisztarrozBarrimas had this to say about Tron:
I would have never bought this stuff. .
Then you have no right to own it. Simple as that.
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Azizza had this to say about Punky Brewster:
Then you have no right to own it. Simple as that.
Nope, he doesn't. Does he care? Nope. Should he? Nope.
Is anybody going out of business because he doesn't care?
Nope. [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Koska Kintaro ]
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Koska Kintaro had this to say about Tron:
Nope, he doesn't. Does he care? Nope. Should he? Nope.Is anybody going out of business because he doesn't care?
Nope.
Why shouldn't he care?
(and people wonder why this country is going to hell)
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Azizza had this to say about Tron:
Why shouldn't he care?
Because the people he's stealing from aren't being negatively impacted in any way.
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Azizza had this to say about Duck Tales:
Then you have no right to own it. Simple as that.
In your moral mindset, evangelist. Under the same idea, the RIAA has no right to own services they didn't create. Yet they do.
My point is, has HE ever done it? if so, thats called hypocrisy. Say it with me.
hypocrisy
Now, Im not saying "Stealing is good! Go do it!"
Im just saying "Dont be a hypocrite"
Fal [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Falaanla Marr ]
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Koska Kintaro had this to say about John Romero:
Also, record sales not only continued to rise "despite" Napster's proliferation, they rose more sharply than ever before when Napster became popular. One of the two could be concluded: a) Napster doesn't affect music sales, or b) Napster INCREASES music sales.
Wrong. Neither of those two can be concluded since there are many many many many other factors in play when it comes to record sales.
Napster supporters often quote the fact that record sales rose during the time Napster was at its peak. Unfortunately, that single fact means absolutely jack shit. The economy as a whole was going up during that time (at a much greater rate than record sales were increasing, by the way). It's akin to rationalizing that if the company you work for made $1000 in profit today, that you can justify stealing $200 from them because they're still making $800, and since they're still making money, the fact that you're stealing obviously isn't bad.
WRONG.
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Koska Kintaro had this to say about John Romero:
Lastly, artists don't see jack from music sales anyway. Actual testimonly from actual artists suggests that the recorded music industry is set up specifically so that artists get NOTHING from it.
And here's the other strawman argument Napsterites throw up to try to morally justify their stealing. They happily neglect to think that if the artists are making little profit already, that stealing more money is just going to make their situation worse.
Let's simplify it for the simple-minded among us:
An album sells 2 million copies at $15 each. That's $30m. The record company keeps 96% of the profit, $29m, and the artists only get $1m.
Now suppose, thanks to Napster, that the album only sells 1 million copies (which is what Maradon's statement was implying). That's only $15m. If you think the record company's going to settle for less of a cut so the artists still get $1m, you're mistaken. They're going to take their 96% (which would leave the artist with only $500k), or, more likely they'll have to take more of a cut because the album is selling in less volume while the amount spent to publicize the album hasn't decreased. So it ends up hurting the artist more than the record company, percent-wise.
Plus, the fact that Napsterites make this misguided argument at all is an acknowledgement that their behavior is depriving somebody of money that they've rightfully earned.
)[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Avylen ]
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Check out the big brain on Avylen!
Kewl, now I know where Maradon is coming from... I think, so stealing is ok Maradon? I do not mean this as sarcastic in the slightest way (Although I am sure it will come across that way)
No, my logic is "I can steal from the RIAA without damaging the music industry AT. ALL. Why should I care again?"
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Azizza had this to say about Duck Tales:
Then you have no right to own it. Simple as that.
Sure I do. It's on my hard drive. It's my digital media. It may not be my idea, but that's not very measurable.
The ends justify the means, don't they?
Yes, that's right, hot live sex!
You don't mind hurting the RIAA, it's almost your passive agressive action against them, makes me feel better.
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WaisztarrozBarrimas had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Sure I do. It's on my hard drive. It's my digital media. It may not be my idea, but that's not very measurable.
The hard drive is yours. The data isn't.
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Avylen had this to say about dark elf butts:
You don't mind hurting the RIAA, it's almost your passive agressive action against them, makes me feel better.
No, I don't mind hurting the RIAA. Particularly when I'm not hurting them.
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Check out the big brain on Koska Kintaro!
No, I don't mind hurting the RIAA. Particularly when I'm not hurting them.
You're still wrong.
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WaisztarrozBarrimas impressed everyone with:The ends justify the means, don't they?
Nope. Hitler tried that.
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Azizza stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
Nope. Hitler tried that.
Oh great, now I'm being compared to Hitler.
I'm quite done here.
Yes, that's right, hot live sex!
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Azizza thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
Then you are actually in a Very small Minority.
I think if artist want to do this then great. They should put something in it like some demo software has. either low quality or won't work after so many days.
Oh and Dem your argument holds no water. If I steal one battery out of a 8 pack of batteries it is still theft.
I, personally do one of two things. Occasionally, I'll download 5 or 6 songs by one artist to see if I like the rest of thier stuff. Too many times I have gone out and bought a CD, to find that the track I bought it for it the ONLY ONE that I like.
Also, I download songs I can't get here: For instance.. a good 60 of my MP3s are Middle Eastern Music that has not been released in the US or England, and shipping charges plus the CD is would cost me easily 50 dollars per cd. Now, if/when I can afford this, I will gladly buy the CD, since I want to be able to take it places with me, and not having to worry about incomplete songs, etc.
Anothr example of this is a few weeks ago, UPN ran a Buffy: The Vampire Slayer musical episode. I loved it. I adored it. Gues what? They have not made a CD, and it's uncertain if they will or not. I downloaded the badly spliced songs off of Morpheus, and made my own CD. Now, when UPN (if UPN) comes out with one, I'm definatly going to buy it. I also download the acoustic versions of songs whenever I can get them, which is almost never on CDs.
I have no job. I would not (currently) be able to buy any CDs anyhow. I'm asking for one for christmas, but I don't even know if I'll get it. I'll buy what I can.
I hate listening to the radio because I have an eclectic mixture I like. I actually do not mind commecrials. It's just I don't want to listen (for instance) To elton John's new song when I could be listening to Nickleback.
Just my point of view. [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Gikkwiny ]
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Azizza had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Nope. Hitler tried that.
Let's confine the analogies to theft, aight?
