quote:
Originally posted by Bloodsage:
Your point, Tier?
Meaning that I doubt Bush will not retaliate.
And Fae... War... Against whom? It is a blind fight for now, let's help ourselves first. Agreed, when we know the instigators, action should and probably will be taken.
quote:
Originally posted by Tier:
Meaning that I doubt Bush will not retaliate.And Fae... War... Against whom? It is a blind fight for now, let's help ourselves first. Agreed, when we know the instigators, action should and probably will be taken.
Read my posts again Tier...
You are correct. The public will demand vengence. Information will come to light pointing to those who sponsored this atrocity. They will pay.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
Well, in short:
OPINION DISCLAIMER
The middle east so far has been nothing but trouble, which is why our fingers are pointed at them. I have always thought we would be better off without their religious fanatism and other reasons they cause that trouble. This difference is what causes these days' conflicts and it seems the only way to rid the conflict is of one party to disappear forever. I would actually like to wipe out the troublemakers, crush all difference to allow harmony, but it is hardly a civil act and much against unspoken laws of ethics.
The previous skirmishes are not the problem, in any case. Someone has committed a terrible transgression to these unspoken laws of ethics, yet we do not exactly know who. The WTC goes down in a suicidal terrorist hijack, and we turn towards Afghanistan, which knowledgely harbors terrorists, and the rest of Middle East, for repeatedly breeding those fanatic terrorists. But we haven't established a link between the two, and however obvious is might sound, many presumed murderers have been tried and put on Death Row for crimes they did not commit. It hardly seems fair to do the same again, yet with an entire country?
Let's wait some time before retaliating, however it will be. Don't get me wrong. 'Tis a time for action, but right now this action is to mend our wounds and search for the truth before biting back.
(In short.. yep.. I got carried away...)
-C
I have always said when we DO know is when I wish to act. I want blood, I don't want mercy anymore. At first I thought I did, that opinion has changed.
But yes I want the whole truth as best we can. I don't want an attack mounted solely on past merit. I want the here and now cause of the problem...
I have spoken to all of my family, but only 1 of my friends.
I just wanted to say to anyone else in this situation, my heart and my prayers go out to you. *hugs everyone tightly* And for those of you who are thinking of the people in NY, thank you. [ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Katjya ]
Katjya Sylvertongue
Tarissa Treerunner
quote:
Originally posted by Tier:
Meaning that I doubt Bush will not retaliate.And Fae... War... Against whom? It is a blind fight for now, let's help ourselves first. Agreed, when we know the instigators, action should and probably will be taken.
Isn't it obvious? War against the enemy!
quote:
Originally posted by Tier:
mend our wounds
Does the Mend button pop up every 6 minutes for an entire country? 
quote:
Originally posted by Solstyce:
Quite simple. I want to find out exactly who was involved. I don't want to kill their nation. I don't want to kill their families, their friends, or the building they work in. I want them. And I don't want them dead. There's gotta be something worse. There's something worse. And I want them to have that.This thing, this whole thing, has shown me what a precious thing human life is. And how a simple twitch in the eye of Fate could have had you as a visitor to the WTC. How if Fate did one thing wrong, you could be dancing in the streets right now, but secretly wondering what this folly has bought. You could be a daughter wondering when Daddy's coming home. A firefighter rushing into the rubble to save someone, but soon knowing with grim finality that it'll be you who'll need saving. You could be an office worker. A janitor. Someone who just got a raise. You could have just made the best business deal of your life. Then you'd be dead. Then you're a statistic.
It's a precious thing. It's a FLEETING thing, and we hold on to it as long as is possible, because even if we don't acknowledge it, we realize somewhere how precious of a thing it is.
So I want to find the sick bastards who did this. The masterminds. The people who willingly and knowingly went into this, knew what they were doing, what they'd endanger, kill. I want to find them. And I want them to experience a hundred fates worse than death.
But I want only them. I want as little innocent bloodshed as possible.
Well said...
[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: ArchAngel ]
Those of you who know me know that I'm generally a non-violent, good-natured person... but frankly, these bastards, whoever they are, have got to pay, and pay dearly.
Regardless of what you call it, it is an act of war. Expect the death toll to top 10,000 and possibly top 20,000. This was not a plane crash or a terrorist bomb, this was a suicide attack on American soil. We need to identify the parties responsible and then systematically destroy them. But when I say we need to identify the parties responsible I mean we have to be absolutely sure we know who they are and if it was really them. Stabbing in the dark will only cause us to make more enemies.
I'm just hoping there isn't WWIII from this, but it is an act of War. The ones celebrating in the streets make me sick, and this post probably isn't terribly coherant.
I'm pissed off and saddened by this. but I'm pissed off the most at some I know (No-one here) who take the thing as a big joke.
quote:
Originally posted by Delphi:
With the falling price of the dollar and the US stock markets recently, What is the best way to raise it? War. Maybe not all out war, but who knows. The U.S. Gov't may have been FUNDING whoever did this in an effort to boost the economy through artificial means. That is a bad thing.
While I'm paranoid enough not to rule out anything, including government involvement, the problem with this theory is the explosion will HURT the American dollar, and is more likely to plunge the world into a depression then save it from one. The entire world market will be thrown into disaray by the loss of the stock market in the solid for of the Dean Whitter (sp?) offices and other financial institutions. [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Sana-chan ]
quote:
Originally posted by Nekai:
[QB]so uhh if they have a penis you don't feel bad about murdering them without evidence that they did anything? [QB]
I have to ask how much you know about the government in question here? I think his point about the women and children, is that the Taliban(sp?) government perpatrates crimes against women so horrendous that its NEVER mentioned in the united states. People blame china for human rights violations, but the ones in Afghanistan(sp?) are as bad if not worse, and perpetrated against only WOMEN. Personally, I think a little castration by fire is not amiss in this case, whether they're harboring criminals or not. Maybe if some of these so called leaders got a taste of the medicine they dish out to their own people, they'd think twice about what they are doing.
And as for the sentiments of the people on this board, do you really think those of us letting out our anger on the boards are REALLY going to affect what Washington decides? I promise you it wont. But today most of this country threww back its head and howled for blood, and I think not without some justification. I believe in justice, not revenge... but I believe the justice must fit the crime, and the people who commited this act of crime, deserve nothing less then complete obliteration.
The hijacked plane numbers: 11, 93, 175, 77.
9 + 3: 12
1 + 7 + 5: 13
7 + 7: 14.
... uh oh.
quote:
Originally posted by Solstyce:
And I don't want them dead. There's gotta be something worse. There's something worse. And I want them to have that.This thing, this whole thing, has shown me what a precious thing human life is. And how a simple twitch in the eye of Fate could have had you as a visitor to the WTC. How if Fate did one thing wrong, you could be dancing in the streets right now, but secretly wondering what this folly has bought. You could be a daughter wondering when Daddy's coming home. A firefighter rushing into the rubble to save someone, but soon knowing with grim finality that it'll be you who'll need saving. You could be an office worker. A janitor. Someone who just got a raise. You could have just made the best business deal of your life. Then you'd be dead. Then you're a statistic.
It's a precious thing. It's a FLEETING thing, and we hold on to it as long as is possible, because even if we don't acknowledge it, we realize somewhere how precious of a thing it is.
Amen!
As to the first part of the quote. There was a writer at the beginning of the century named L.M. Montgomery, who was Canadian. She wrote the Anne of Green Gables novels, a popular series some of you may have heard of. The last book in the series takes place in Canada over the years of World War I. I woke up this morning feeling as if it were the first day of World War III so quotes from the book keep coming to mind. One in particular sticks. There is a character of a young boy, who explains what he would do to the German Kaiser given a choice for punishment... "I would like to turn the Kaiser into a good man. If he was turned into a good man he would understand how dreadful the things he has done are and he would feel so terrible about it that he would be more miserable and unhappy then he could ever be in any other way."
I would love to see the people responsible this suddenly become good, and KNOW deep inside that what they had done was an act of sheer evil. But sadly this is unlikely. So instead I hope we make whoever is responsible for this severely miserable in some other way.
You're right... this brings home how precious life is. I realize how lucky I am not to have lost anyone in this catastrophe, and I wish that I could be closer to my family (and also away from a major military base... >_< ) I think we will all realize over the next few weeks how precious life is to us, in a way few of us could ever have imagined before.
For those of you sick of my long ass posts I'm sorry... boy does it feel good to get my thoughts out in some order. ^_^ [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Sana-chan ]
quote:
Originally posted by Sana-chan:
For those of you sick of my long ass posts I'm sorry... boy does it feel good to get my thoughts out in some order. ^_^
Today, nobody will mind how long your posts are, as long as we can read them.
Current estimates are that there were 10,000-20,000 people in the WTC when the first plane hit.
The people in the second building were not initially evacuated. One person who escaped the second building said they'd just been given the all-clear to continue work when their building was struck.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Originally posted by Hyacinth:
September 11... wasn't that the day the US signed some sort of treaty with Isreal?
September 11th 2000, the declaration of Palestine as an independent country was put off indefinately.
quote:
Originally posted by Rabin Crabmink:
Here's something really weird,
Nostradamus said:
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
That's really strange...
quote:
Originally posted by Mortious Shadowstalker:
London Stock Exchange has been evacuated.Fear of a UK attack is rising.
That scares me but i doubt they will hit London, and i hope for goodness sake not Birmingham. i was watching the news as i came back from college. I am very sorry for all those involved.
quote:
Originally posted by Solstyce:
The hijacked plane numbers: 11, 93, 175, 77.9 + 3: 12
1 + 7 + 5: 13
7 + 7: 14.... uh oh.
12, 13, 14... What are you seeing that I'm not?
quote:
Originally posted by Solstyce:
I don't know if this has been posted before, but...The hijacked plane numbers: 11, 93, 175, 77.
9 + 3: 12
1 + 7 + 5: 13
7 + 7: 14.... uh oh.
yeah and 1 + 1 = 2 whats your point?
FBI is raiding some hotel..
quote:
Originally posted by Solstyce:
I don't know if this has been posted before, but...The hijacked plane numbers: 11, 93, 175, 77.
9 + 3: 12
1 + 7 + 5: 13
7 + 7: 14.... uh oh.
That's interesting Sol, but 1+1=2...which has been posted.
So are ya sayin don't get on flight number 78? Or 96? 366? [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Daniel Gow ]
quote:
Originally posted by Demitri:
12, 13, 14... What are you seeing that I'm not?
the sequence is 11, 12, 13, 14 actually
and it started all on the 11th of Sept. Flight 11 was the first plane that hit the WTC. the sums of all the individual flight numbers goes in that order, 12, 13, 14
You expect them to strike 4 days in a row? That's asking for us to nuke their entire country back to the stone age.
quote:
Originally posted by Pvednes Phoenixfeather:
I'm pissed off and saddened by this. but I'm pissed off the most at some I know (No-one here) who take the thing as a big joke.
Yeah... I heard that some of the people not in NYC metro area were doing that...
I guess I can't blame those people who are far away, all they hear is numbers. They don't get panicked calls from friends and family, they don't spend days wondering whether their uncles made it to work or time or survived.
Edit: Had more thoughts to add [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Hireko ]
quote:
Originally posted by Geeorn:
the sequence is 11, 12, 13, 14 actuallyand it started all on the 11th of Sept. Flight 11 was the first plane that hit the WTC. the sums of all the individual flight numbers goes in that order, 12, 13, 14
If you're going to look for a pattern here, then it should hold true for all of the flights. Personally, I think it's merely a freaky coincidence.
Those flights were chosen because they all were leaving their airports within an hour or so of each other, so security couldn't be tightened to prevent the hijackers from doing what they planned. They were also chosen because they were all leaving from fairly near their chosen targets. And because they were all flying to California, so they'd have the largest available fuel reserves in their tanks when they hit.
I don't think the assholes who perpetrated this attack would EVER be so subtle as to look for all of the above AND flight numbers that would give us a hidden message. Those planes were chosen for cold and malicious reasons. The rest is just coincidence.
And as Demitri implied, I too don't think they would attack four days in a row. Besides, I'm not sure they COULD get another attack through just now. Every city across the country is on high alert and anything suspicious would be stopped well short of its intended target. *shrug*
Katjya Sylvertongue Tarissa Treerunner
quote:
Originally posted by Anti-school Gerard:
And IMHO, whether it is them or not, they should pay in some way for celebrating the suffering of thousands of innocent bystanders trying to make a living or get home to their families from a vacation or business trip. I have had time to cool off and I still feel this way. If I were old enough, I would join the army just so I could be in the front line and hear them scream for forgiveness. If that were to happen, I would give them their 'forgiveness' in the form of an automatic rifle to the face!
Yesterday, when I heard about this and saw a clip of it, my first reaction was "To my mind, that negates the thought of any 'innocent bystanders' here."
But today, reading another board, someone pointed out something which gave me pause. Their government controls every scrap of information they're allowed to view. There are generations who have grown up being taught that the US and demoracy are evil and the work of hellspawn. As far as the average citizen there is told and raised to believe, WE ARE THE DEVIL INCARNATE! (Well, I don't know if they believe in the devil as christians do, but you get the point.)
As much as I hate it, I can't help but put myself into their shoes. I do NOT mean the terrorists who did this!! I mean the average citizen who sees on the news only what their government wants them to see. And I'll give you better than even odds that they were told this was a strike at the heart of all that is vile and wicked in the world.
I would like to think that I would recognize that there there thousands upon thousands of innocent lives lost and that I wouldn't be celebrating. But if I was raised in their environment, can I completely say that I would have thought of that?
It was insensitive and uncaring and rude and a horrific misjudgement. But as far as most of those people were most likely told, the terrorists had simply cleansed the world of evil.
*sigh* I'm sure I'll be flamed for what I said above. But YES, I do know how the people affected by what happened yesterday feel. Since I'm one of those people. That was my HOME they blew up. I used to live FOUR BLOCKS from the World Trade Center. I used to go there all the damn time. I went to the mall on the ground floor there. I remember walking down one of the hallways to get to the subway and there was a flower shop there that I had to pass. And every time I'd pass it, I'd take a deep deep breath and almost FEEL the scent of those bloosoms enveloping me. It felt like I had suddenly stepped into some secret special garden in the middle of Manhattan. I bought my movies and my soaps and food there. I had film developed there. And a thousand other little parts of everyday living were tied up in those buildings. So I do completely know how it feels to know they're gone and I'm still waiting to find out who that I know is dead now, because I don't doubt someone is.
I just wanted it made clear, since tone of voice and body language make up so much more of our language than the mere words do, that what I said above in no way means that I don't want the people responsible for this to DIE and DIE PAINFULLY. But I also can't ignore my own conscience and say we should simply nuke the country and those people celebrating in the streets obviously deserved this. [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Katjya ]
Katjya Sylvertongue Tarissa Treerunnerquote:
Originally posted by Katjya:
Yesterday, when I heard about this and saw a clip of it, my first reaction was "To my mind, that negates the thought of any 'innocent bystanders' here."But today, reading another board, someone pointed out something which gave me pause. Their government controls every scrap of information they're allowed to view. There are generations who have grown up being taught that the US and demoracy are evil and the work of hellspawn. As far as the average citizen there is told and raised to believe, WE ARE THE DEVIL INCARNATE! (Well, I don't know if they believe in the devil as christians do, but you get the point.)
As much as I hate it, I can't help but put myself into their shoes. I do NOT mean the terrorists who did this!! I mean the average citizen who sees on the news only what their government wants them to see. And I'll give you better than even odds that they were told this was a strike at the heart of all that is vile and wicked in the world.
I would like to think that I would recognize that there there thousands upon thousands of innocent lives lost and that I wouldn't be celebrating. But if I was raised in their environment, can I completely say that I would have thought of that?
It was insensitive and uncaring and rude and a horrific misjudgement. But as far as most of those people were most likely told, the terrorists had simply cleansed the world of evil.
*sigh* I'm sure I'll be flamed for what I said above. But YES, I do know how the people affected by what happened yesterday feel. Since I'm one of those people. That was my HOME they blew up. I used to live FOUR BLOCKS from the World Trade Center. I used to go there all the damn time. I went to the mall on the ground floor there. I remember walking down one of the hallways to get to the subway and there was a flower shop there that I had to pass. And every time I'd pass it, I'd take a deep deep breath and almost FEEL the scent of those bloosoms enveloping me. It felt like I had suddenly stepped into some secret special garden in the middle of Manhattan. I bought my movies and my soaps and food there. I had film developed there. And a thousand other little parts of everyday living were tied up in those buildings. So I do completely know how it feels to know they're gone and I'm still waiting to find out who that I know is dead now, because I don't doubt someone is.
I just wanted it made clear, since tone of voice and body language make up so much more of our language than the mere words do, that what I said above in no way means that I don't want the people responsible for this to DIE and DIE PAINFULLY. But I also can't ignore my own conscience and say we should simply nuke the country and those people celebrating in the streets obviously deserved this.
I would feel the same if they weren't dancing in the streets about it.
"What was done today was great tragedy, but it is but one event. Here in Iraq, we used to have bombs dropped on us every day by Americans. Places we used to live in, eat in, sleep in, get married in, shop near, be human in, were destroyed by those bombs. You now know the pain and sorrow one feels when something like this happens. You lose less than what we have, we have thousands who have died, and we have no way to fight back. You Americans have your bombs, your atomic missiles, but we have nothing. We cannot pay you back in kind for our family and friends, we can shout, 'Kill all the Americans!' but it will do us no good. Our leaders say America is evil, it got what it deserved, but we know what it is to have our homes and businesses destroyed by a foreign power, and there are those of us who sympathize. But, think of what I have said before you bomb some more innocent people's houses and businesses, before you visit any more pain on those who cannot fight back."
Just something to think about. Once we do find out who did it, we can shut down their entire freakin country, and systematically find them, arrest them, and punish them.
SURREAL - Sister Hazel
With my head above the water
I can breathe to stay alive
But Ill try a little harder
If you want me to survive
Wont somebody tell me?
How I got to this stage?
When consequence is inconsequential
And
Staring in the spotlight
Is better than real life
Its been surreal, how do you feel
When the seas part before your eyes
Its just so real how does it feel
When the stars that follow die
With my head above the water
I could drift along, beyond the tides
But I can try a little harder
If you help me to reach the other side.
Wont somebody tell me?
How I got to this stage?
When consequence is inconsequential
And
Staring in the spotlight
Is better than real life
Its been surreal, how do you feel
When the seas part before your eyes
Its just so real how does it feel
When the stars that follow die
Its been surreal, how do you feel [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Ford Prefect ]
When the colors have left you blind
Its just so real how does it feel
To have left yourself behind
