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Topic: Are transforming mecha really needed on the battlefield?
Kennatsu
hu�mor 1. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
posted 08-10-2006 02:48:08 AM
For this thread, assume that the problems with making and fielding mecha have been solved to the point that they've become as common (if not more so) as other fighting machines.

Now then... do we need machines that can change forms during combat to meet a wide variety of situations, or would it be better to simply outfit a mech with all kinds of options to do the same thing?

Sean
posted 08-10-2006 03:02:07 AM
Please go back to wherever you disappeared to for about a year.

Wasn't it the hospital?

A Kansas City Shuffle is when everybody looks right, you go left.

It's not something people hear about.

Mooj
Scorned Fanboy
posted 08-10-2006 03:05:10 AM
Multiple specializations = Prohibitive cost.

In almost every situation you will find it cheaper to make hardware that does one thing very well, rather than trying to design one machine that does several things very well.

Not that it's impossible, but there are better ways to spend money.

Tristan
Vidi, vici, veni.
Nae's Stooge
posted 08-10-2006 03:23:30 AM
If you have to the tech to make a mech that somehow works on the battlefield, you have the tech to make a tank that would WTF PWN the mech. The only way around this is to rewrite reality to favor style over subtance, and at that point life is simply not worth living.
Veni, vidi, vici
Elvish Crack Piper
Murder is justified so long as people believe in something different than you do
posted 08-10-2006 03:26:09 AM
Armor Piercing Rounds at Kneecaps.

Win.

Tanks will always be cheaper in a mecha universe.

(Insert Funny Phrase Here)
Mr. Parcelan
posted 08-10-2006 04:07:08 AM
Kenn, are you aware that you bring out the worst in people?

Does anyone remember that thread where Kennatsu and some other retards started arguing with Bloodsage that mechas should be in use in the army now?

Does anyone remember why we didn't lynch him last time?

Snoota
Now I am become Death, shatterer of worlds
posted 08-10-2006 08:29:16 AM
quote:
A sleep deprived Mr. Parcelan stammered:
Kenn, are you aware that you bring out the worst in people?

Does anyone remember that thread where Kennatsu and some other retards started arguing with Bloodsage that mechas should be in use in the army now?

Does anyone remember why we didn't lynch him last time?


Led.

And because that thread was fucking hilarious.

Mooj
Scorned Fanboy
posted 08-10-2006 09:33:36 AM
quote:
There was much rejoicing when Snoota said this:
Led.

And because that thread was fucking hilarious.


Amen to that.

Tarquinn
Personally responsible for the decline of the American Dollar
posted 08-10-2006 09:52:10 AM
quote:
Snoota's account was hax0red to write:
Led.

And because that thread was fucking hilarious.


?

~Never underestimate the power of a Dark Clown.
Liam
Swims in Erotic Circles
posted 08-10-2006 09:58:21 AM
quote:
Kennatsu has funnier quote texts than me:
For this thread, assume that the problems with making and fielding mecha have been solved to the point that they've become as common (if not more so) as other fighting machines.

Now then... do we need machines that can change forms during combat to meet a wide variety of situations, or would it be better to simply outfit a mech with all kinds of options to do the same thing?


JUST STOP

Steven Steve
posted 08-10-2006 10:36:55 AM
I think we should all just go back to fighting with swords and what not because technology is expensive and boring as fuck.
"Absolutely NOTHING [will stop me from buying Diablo III]. I will buy it regardless of what they do."
- Grawbad, Battle.net forums

"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums

Katrinity
Cookie Goddess!
posted 08-10-2006 10:43:01 AM
quote:
Fazum'Zen Fastfist probably says this to all the girls:
I think we should all just go back to fighting with swords and what not because technology is expensive and boring as fuck.

Baron Munchausen: What's this?
Vulcan: Oh, this is our prototype. RX Intercontinental, radar-seeking, multi-warheaded nuclear missile.
Baron Munchausen: What does it do?
Vulcan: Do? Kills the enemy.
Baron Munchausen: All the enemy?
Vulcan: Aye, all the enemy. All their wives, and all their children, and all their sheep, and all their cattle, and all their cats and dogs. All of them: all of them gone for good.
Sally: That's horrible.
Vulcan: Ahh. Well, you see, the advantage is you don't have to see one single one of them die. You just sit comfortably thousands of miles away from the battlefield and simply press the button.
Berthold: Well, where's the fun in that?

Cookie Goddess Supreme
Furry Kitsune of Power!
Pouncer of the 12th degree!
"Cxularath ftombn gonoragh pv'iornw hqxoxon targh!"
Translated: "Sell your soul for a cookie?"
Leftover Mog
No, the spelling errors are not intentional
posted 08-10-2006 11:37:03 AM
quote:
This one time, at Katrinity camp:

Vulcan: Aye, all the enemy. All their wives, and all their children, and all their sheep, and all their cattle, and all their cats and dogs. All of them: all of them gone for good.

Baron Munchausen: Wait, how are we saposed to rape and pillage if you FUCKEN BLEW THEM UP AND MADE EVERYTHING THEY OWNDED RADIOACTIVE!

Won't you be my friend

"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
-- George Herbert Walker Bush

Snoota
Now I am become Death, shatterer of worlds
posted 08-10-2006 12:41:10 PM
quote:
Tarquinn had this to say about Tron:
?

You even posted in the god damn thread you fucking lazy bastard.

Steven Steve
posted 08-10-2006 12:47:24 PM
Haha, OtakuPenguin.
"Absolutely NOTHING [will stop me from buying Diablo III]. I will buy it regardless of what they do."
- Grawbad, Battle.net forums

"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums

Sean
posted 08-10-2006 12:52:48 PM
quote:
Snoota thought about the meaning of life:
You even posted in the god damn thread you fucking lazy bastard.

Where the fuck you been.

A Kansas City Shuffle is when everybody looks right, you go left.

It's not something people hear about.

Karnaj
Road Warrior Queef
posted 08-10-2006 01:34:23 PM
quote:
Fazum'Zen Fastfist got served! Fazum'Zen Fastfist got served!
Haha, OtakuPenguin.

That was his mantra: "HAVE AN OPEN MIND! INDULGE AND VALIDATE MY CHILDISH FANTASIES, LIKE MY MADE UP GIRLFRIEND!"

That's the American Dream: to make your life into something you can sell. - Chuck Palahniuk, Haunted

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith



Beer.

Steven Steve
posted 08-10-2006 01:39:58 PM
Was it here that someone said "Why aren't you open-minded to the fact that you might be an idiot?" That was a good one.
"Absolutely NOTHING [will stop me from buying Diablo III]. I will buy it regardless of what they do."
- Grawbad, Battle.net forums

"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums

Karnaj
Road Warrior Queef
posted 08-10-2006 02:10:06 PM
I just did a search and, while I didn't find that particular saying, I found a bunch of gems wherein the idiocy flowed like wine. Like this:

SCIENCE CAN'T EXPLAIN LOVE!

That's the American Dream: to make your life into something you can sell. - Chuck Palahniuk, Haunted

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith



Beer.

Nina
posted 08-10-2006 02:42:51 PM
BUT IT'S MAGIC!
Mr. Parcelan
posted 08-10-2006 05:59:59 PM
quote:
Karnaj said this about your mom:
I just did a search and, while I didn't find that particular saying, I found a bunch of gems wherein the idiocy flowed like wine. Like this:

SCIENCE CAN'T EXPLAIN LOVE!


Mother of God.

KI IS AT WORK, PEOPLE. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 08-10-2006 08:35:58 PM
The biggest problem with transformation is that it's nowhere good as hybridization. For instance...a machine gun that turns into a grenade launcher...not so good. A machine gun with an under-the-barrel grenade launcher? Good.

Keep in mind that in some anime series, they explain why things transform. In Macross, it was because they anticipated having to fight fifty-foot-tall humanoids in close combat. In Transformers, it was to give the Cybertronians tool functions in addition to their humanoid modes. It was never asserted in either series that it gives them a superior battlefield advantage; just more choices. In the comic books, Transformers were constantly getting blown off at the knees and so forth. Some were better-armored at weak points, but their systems were often limited in some other way.

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Mr. Parcelan
posted 08-10-2006 08:38:38 PM
Keep in mind that it's a cartoon show.

GOD I WILL RAPE YOU ALL, ESPECIALLY LIAM.

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 08-11-2006 07:08:33 AM
Yes yes but for the sake of conversation.
Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Malbi
posted 08-11-2006 10:25:33 AM
far as I can recall in most cartoons and such the majority of the time, the main reason for transforming was disguise or to combine into a bigger robot.
I Didnt ask to be Secretary of Balloon Doggies, the Balloon Doggies demanded it!
Steven Steve
posted 08-11-2006 10:49:25 AM
quote:
Mr. Parcelan wrote this stupid crap:
Mother of God.

KI IS AT WORK, PEOPLE. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.


MOG U CAN'T DISPROVE KI FADGE. HOW ELSE DO U EXPLAIN MONKS

"Absolutely NOTHING [will stop me from buying Diablo III]. I will buy it regardless of what they do."
- Grawbad, Battle.net forums

"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums

Karnaj
Road Warrior Queef
posted 08-11-2006 10:54:12 AM
MY DAD TALKS TO OUR CAT. AND IT UNDERSTANDS EVERY WORD HE SAYS AND TALKS TO US AND IT TELLS US OF THE SECRETS OF NEPHREM-KA, AS WELL AS THE HORRIBLE SECRET LYING BEHIND THE WANING, GIBBOUS MOON.

Karnaj fucked around with this message on 08-11-2006 at 10:55 AM.

That's the American Dream: to make your life into something you can sell. - Chuck Palahniuk, Haunted

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith



Beer.

Bloodsage
Heart Attack
posted 08-11-2006 11:07:50 AM
Yeah, but think how much humor will go out of the world if we invent a cure for stupidity!
To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

--Satan, quoted by John Milton

Azakias
Never wore the pants, thus still wields the power of unused (_|_)
posted 08-11-2006 11:33:25 AM
quote:
Karnaj said this about your mom:
I just did a search and, while I didn't find that particular saying, I found a bunch of gems wherein the idiocy flowed like wine. Like this:

SCIENCE CAN'T EXPLAIN LOVE!


Holy shit. I actually said I believed in magic?

I think I've blocked that era of idiocy out of my psychi...psychee? Psychy?

"Age by age have men stood up and said to the world, 'From what has come before me, I was forged, but I am new and greater than my forebears.' And so each man walks the world in ruin, abandoned and untried. Less than the whole of his being"
Azakias
Never wore the pants, thus still wields the power of unused (_|_)
posted 08-11-2006 11:47:16 AM
quote:
Kennatsu was naked while typing this:
For this thread, assume that the problems with making and fielding mecha have been solved to the point that they've become as common (if not more so) as other fighting machines.

Now then... do we need machines that can change forms during combat to meet a wide variety of situations, or would it be better to simply outfit a mech with all kinds of options to do the same thing?


First answer: No. No mechas. Ever. Working on a fixed wing aircraft is hard enough, what with ordering parts, waiting days to receive them, electrical and electronic woes, engine nightmares, and so on. I cant even imagine trying to keep all the moveable surfaces on a giant man-shaped robot from being corroded.

Not to mention all the weight on the joints would probably snap it at the knees just by trying to move.

But, to the question at hand: If, for some bizare reason some machine lke this was not stopped in its tracks, anything would be specialized. The military has dozens of different models of aircraft, which are then classified further into types. Example: An E2 is the original model. There is also an E2-A, an E2-B, and E2-C, an E2-C Nav Upgrade, E2-C Hawkeye 2000.

That is just one aircraft model.

The military is all about specialization. There's no point to doing several things satisfactorily, when you can do one thing well.

Besides. The sheer amount of electronics, mechanics, and power required to create a multi-mission piece of equipment is just cost prohibitive, and would probable fail before it ever saw the light of day.

Azakias fucked around with this message on 08-11-2006 at 11:48 AM.

"Age by age have men stood up and said to the world, 'From what has come before me, I was forged, but I am new and greater than my forebears.' And so each man walks the world in ruin, abandoned and untried. Less than the whole of his being"
Led
*kaboom*
posted 08-11-2006 11:58:42 AM
Do not go dragging my name into this

I think Kenn's brain works on a cycle. Brings up the same topics every few years one after the oth... OMG! KENN IS A ROBOT!

Blackened
posted 08-11-2006 12:05:09 PM
quote:
Karnaj.
MY DAD TALKS TO OUR CAT. AND IT UNDERSTANDS EVERY WORD HE SAYS AND TALKS TO US AND IT TELLS US OF THE SECRETS OF NEPHREM-KA, AS WELL AS THE HORRIBLE SECRET LYING BEHIND THE WANING, GIBBOUS MOON.
Laughed

Although my distaste for you as a human being is brobdingnagian,
what I'm about to do isn't personal.
Gunslinger Moogle
No longer a gimmick
posted 08-11-2006 12:47:11 PM
quote:
Led got a good feeling!
I think Kenn's brain works on a cycle. Brings up the same topics every few years one after the oth... OMG! KENN IS A ROBOT!

so he's really asking "Do you guys think I need to transform on the battlefield" then?

Gunslinger Moogle fucked around with this message on 08-11-2006 at 12:47 PM.




moogle is the 3241727861th binary digit of pi

Disclaimer: I'm just kidding, I love all living things.
The fastest draw in the Crest.
"The Internet is MY critical thinking course." -Maradon
"Gambling for the husband, an abortion for the wife and fireworks for the kids they chose to keep? Fuck you, Disneyland. The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation is the happiest place on Earth." -JooJooFlop

Anakha
my standards skyrocket when im on my keyboard heh
posted 08-11-2006 01:57:55 PM
quote:
This one time, at Bloodsage camp:
Yeah, but think how much humor will go out of the world if we invent a cure for stupidity!

We have one, its called Darwinism!

"Buzz Beer, the beer of attainable women!"
"You try balancing a cow on the end of a fencepost to wield it like a club. Thats a physical damn challenge!"
"The only problem i have is too much aggro."
Densetsu
NOT DRYSART
posted 08-11-2006 05:10:50 PM
quote:
Azakias had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
First answer: No. No mechas. Ever. Etc.

If you're going to actually respond to the OP, at least read it.

And it's spelled p-s-y-c-h-e.

I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl, we ate lobster, drank piña coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over, and over?
Led
*kaboom*
posted 08-11-2006 05:14:37 PM
Aircraft are plenty damn common, and they are still a nightmare to work on.

Hell, my HUMVEE gives me fits at times

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 08-11-2006 06:48:25 PM
Suck it up. Technology is getting MORE complex, not LESS complex. If we wanted LESS complex, then slapping someone with a glove would be an WMD
Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Malbi
posted 08-11-2006 07:16:39 PM
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
Suck it up. Technology is getting MORE complex, not LESS complex. If we wanted LESS complex, then slapping someone with a glove would be an WMD

*gets to work on making a really big lever and iron glove.

I Didnt ask to be Secretary of Balloon Doggies, the Balloon Doggies demanded it!
Mightion Defensor
posted 08-11-2006 07:44:57 PM
I am going to reply that if we can imagine that transforming mecha will/can/exist at some point, then we can imagine situations on the battlefield where there would be needed.... even if the situations only amount to being "Filler between toy commercials".

There. Settled.

Skaw
posted 08-11-2006 08:00:21 PM
If PlanetSide has taught me anything, Piloting a mech, one EMP blast and you're fucked.
All times are US/Eastern
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